Technic Parts We Would Find Useful

[Mikdun]

53 minutes ago, howitzer said:

Bush can't be inserted on a pin, while axle can't hold on to a pinhole.

Right, did not see this. 

[howitzer]

2 hours ago, DrJB said:

You're missing my point, and my experience is a bit different than yours. Not to lecture, but I have seen Lego Technic 'evolve' over the past many years and some things are either not doable, or structurally weak (I'm wearing my engineer's hat here).

Here is an example to illustrate my point: Imagine you want to stack 1 regular beam between 2 half-beams, one on each side. There is no 2L connector that will hold this assembly together as all 2L connectors have a ridge in the middle.

You also need to consider that when Lego Technic started (see pics below), it was all about replicating mechanical functions (The first engine cylinders were square). Nowadays everyone wants to motorize their MOC and turn it into an RC vehicle. Not all parts can sustain such abuse.

You might disagree, and that is fine, but my point remains: half beams are very restrictive in their use, simply because the 'resolution' for most other parts is full-width.

In the end though, these are YOUR parts, and you're free to do with them as YOU please. *cheers*

Not that you're wrong in your assessment from engineering perspective, but there still are many parts which can be used to make half-stud offsets and such offsets are employed also on official sets in many kinds of different ways, so it's obvious that half-stud offsets are supported to some extent by TLG.

Not sure if @gyenesvi's suggestions are the first ones I'd take if I had a freedom to choose new parts for supporting more half-stud offset builds, but at least in the connector category the current selection is severely lacking and when you do need to make a half-stud offset in your build, it can be really painful or clumsy to design one. So one thing I wish would be more connectors enabling half-stud offsets, and while I don't have any specific kind of connector in mind, almost anything would make life easier when designing such builds.

[gyenesvi]

8 hours ago, DrJB said:

How about planetary hubs?

What about this part?

3 hours ago, DrJB said:

You're missing my point, and my experience is a bit different than yours. Not to lecture, but I have seen Lego Technic 'evolve' over the past many years and some things are either not doable, or structurally weak (I'm wearing my engineer's hat here).

Quote

You might disagree, and that is fine, but my point remains: half beams are very restrictive in their use, simply because the 'resolution' for most other parts is full-width.

Sure, I agree with you in that there are uses of half beams that result in weak structures or are restrictive in their use. All I am saying is that there are interesting uses that result in solid assemblies, so I see a lot of potential in them.

Quote

Here is an example to illustrate my point: Imagine you want to stack 1 regular beam between 2 half-beams, one on each side. There is no 2L connector that will hold this assembly together as all 2L connectors have a ridge in the middle.

Indeed, this is use case comes up quite a frequently and it would be great if it was supported. Now the best we can do is stick the 2L end of a 3L connector in that 2L space and let the 1L part stick out. It would be great for example to have a 2L version of this new pin ideally with friction. That would make such assemblies possible in a solid way! Indeed, to some extent you are right that if we have more thin liftarms then connectors that support them also become important, but I think it's not too much that would be needed (it's not like we'd need a half stud version of everything).

2 hours ago, oracid said:

One thing should be great is a few RC standard servo arms. Let say thin beams from 3L to 9L.

But there are 2L, 3L, 4L and 5L thin beams with axle holes in the end, those are useful for servo horns, no? Also, the longer it gets, the weaker the power will be. Even at 4L it's getting too weak for steering a car. For other more light weight applications, it could work.

2 hours ago, Jurss said:

Frames are used mostly, to make some rigid constructions. But half stud parts are pretty weak. So I don't think, it would be good thing. OK, we would be able to make some more compact supercar :) , but if Lego will make some set, they need to care about that kid, who will play with that set. If it will brake easyali, they won't get bonus points from customers.

It depends on how you use them I think. The existing 3x3 thin L beams are pretty useful. Think about these frames as an extension of those. I would use these vertically, for connecting layers. And you can always double them up to make them stronger. Or put one on one side of a beam, or another one on the other side. They would be pretty useful for straight axles for example, like this one below (could hold the planetary hub), that uses a few of these custom parts, nicely complementing each other. But still, they are quite generic structural parts I think, that could be used for similar structures for many purposes.

3 hours ago, shroomzofdoom said:

I'm a huge fan of your 42129 C model - Ultra 4 Buggy. It's one of the most thoughtfully laid C models... Ever! Have you tried replacing the 8M long 3:1 transmission with the 5M long variant with just the 24T clutch gear? For some reason, it gets much harder to squeeze in the shift selector with a shorter variant. I've tried a few times and it's not easy. 

Thanks a lot, indeed, that model focused on laying out the drivetrain and suspension compactly. It's true that as the 24T gets closer it gets harder a bit because it needs more space, but here's the general idea of how I'd do it. As for the framing goes, short flip-flop beams would be great help for such structures, so I used them here for the sake of illustration (otherwise it would be more cumbersome to make a solid and compact frame for it).

1 hour ago, howitzer said:

but at least in the connector category the current selection is severely lacking and when you do need to make a half-stud offset in your build, it can be really painful or clumsy to design one. So one thing I wish would be more connectors enabling half-stud offsets, and while I don't have any specific kind of connector in mind, almost anything would make life easier when designing such builds.

I totally feel this too, there is a lot of potential in half stud offsets, and some parts to support this more would be useful, though I don't have clear generic ideas for that yet (except one or two maybe).

Edited January 13, 2023 by gyenesvi

[gyenesvi]

12 hours ago, howitzer said:

Another part I've been dreaming of:

But with perpendicular pinholes at corners (in addition to center) and parallel pinholes at sides.

I managed to do it, hopefully this is what you have been thinking of. However, I am not sure this would fit the system nicely, it feels odd, neither am I sure that this could actually be manufactured (because of the pinholes being closed from the center). Maybe an open center variant, essentially resulting in a 3x3 frame is more of a possibility? Though still can't figure really good use cases that could not be built maybe with short alternating beams instead?

[kolbjha]

25 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

Now the best we can do is stick the 2L end of a 3L connector in that 2L space and let the 1L part stick out.

I don't think that will work, as there is a small ridge in the middle of the 2L end of the 3L pin.

Edited January 13, 2023 by kolbjha

[gyenesvi]

6 minutes ago, kolbjha said:

I don't think that will work, as there is a small ridge in the middle of the 2L end of the 3L pin.

Well it does work, people use it all the time. Sure, it's not 100% legal, but that's the best we have for now.

[Aleh]

Oh, if talking on topic - often I like to own 4l pin, with the stopper in the middle 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Aleh

[kolbjha]

7 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

Well it does work, people use it all the time. Sure, it's not 100% legal, but that's the best we have for now.

Ok, I can agree it will work mechanically. What I wanted to point out was that the slot in the 2L end will be under constant stress.

Interesting topic, by the way 

Edited January 13, 2023 by kolbjha

[gyenesvi]

48 minutes ago, Aleh said:

Oh, if talking of topic - ofter I like to own 4l pin, with the stopper iin the middle 

Exactly :) On that note, here are my ideas for pins and axles. These are mainly longer versions of existing ones (sometimes shorter), plus I added the angled axle connectors that came up before (@langko and @Thirdwigg). I'd especially like the longer towball pin/axle, and the short 2L pin with no stop in the middle. It would be nice to have that with friction (to be able to sandwich a full beam between two half beams), but I guess if that ever comes, it would only be without friction for easy disassembly. Also, the 6L / 7L stops axles would be useful quite often for me, but luckily that's easy to make at home by cutting an 8L shorter. Furthermore, there could be angled variants of the perpendicular pin connector as well, though I think that would be less usable than the one with the axles. The 2L axle + 2L pin can be replaced with a 4L axle with end stop, but sometimes using an axle in pinholes results in weaker connections.

One note about the short axle-to-axle perpendicular connector: in theory it could look like below, nicely round like the axle-pin connectors, but that would be out of the system of existing axle connectors.

48 minutes ago, kolbjha said:

Ok, I can agree it will work mechanically. What I wanted to point out was that the slot in the 2L end will be under constant stress.

Indeed, that is true, though I'd imagine that stress would be very small, especially since the pins have longitudinal cuts at that position to allow for being squeezed more easily.

Edited January 13, 2023 by gyenesvi

[Zerobricks]

 

1 hour ago, gyenesvi said:

 

 

Sorry for quoting a picture, but I think this part with 2L stud long pin instead of a 1L axle would be different enough from all the existing conenctors to warrant it's existence. Everything else is IMO too simillar to the already existing family of connectors.

[jovel]

Something for 3 functions through a turntable.

 

 

[oracid]

3 hours ago, gyenesvi said:

But there are 2L, 3L, 4L and 5L thin beams with axle holes in the end, those are useful for servo horns, no? 

No.
The RC standard servo output is a usually a 25T gear.
Like here, https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005004505256614.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.11.2f875184YJ5Yxm&algo_pvid=2f894f45-2c7e-42d1-8853-ac86e4b6d972&aem_p4p_detail=202301130500174375319238696840000616623&algo_exp_id=2f894f45-2c7e-42d1-8853-ac86e4b6d972-5&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000029399308713"}&pdp_npi=2%40dis!EUR!23.71!12.8!!!!!%40214527c616736148179144989d0702!12000029399308713!sea&curPageLogUid=4IvBTBaz2Rw4&ad_pvid=202301130500174375319238696840000616623_6&ad_pvid=202301130500174375319238696840000616623_6

 

[gyenesvi]

1 hour ago, Zerobricks said:

Sorry for quoting a picture, but I think this part with 2L stud long pin instead of a 1L axle would be different enough from all the existing conenctors to warrant it's existence. Everything else is IMO too simillar to the already existing family of connectors.

What do you mean too similar? That's exactly the point. Similar to the existing ones but longer versions to allow them being used for connecting multiple parts at once. As for your idea, that's interesting, what I don't understand is why would you start with a 2L pin variant, when even a 1L pin variant does not exist. Also, can you tell what it's necessary for? Couldn't most use cases be covered by #1 and #2 connectors with 2L / 3L pins inserted? Maybe one use case I can think of is when an axle needs to be angled as in a triangle and it would not result in a full stud length and such a part would allow it to 'overflow' a bit?

1 hour ago, jovel said:

Something for 3 functions through a turntable.

Wow, cool mechanism and parts! Though I find it a bit too specialized and might get mechanically and structurally complicated to frame all that, no?

27 minutes ago, oracid said:

The RC standard servo output is a usually a 25T gear.

I am not sure what you want to achieve then. You talked about thin liftarms previously as servo arms (isn't that the same as a servo-horn). How do you want to connect that to the gear? I thought you'd want to take off the gear and replace it. If not, how does it connect to lego?

[Zerobricks]

I'm not sure if this is the right topic anymore, or should I open a new one specifically for 3D printed parts?

Anyway, I decided to test the CV axle idea.

I actually did manage to create a 1,5 stud long one and it works at around 25 to 30 degrees max angle:

It can be used both for 5 studded and even 4 studded suspension arm length:

But as predicted, having only half a stud of the axle inside the CV joint proved too unstable, the whole driveshaft can fall apart with enough side force.

So I focused my attention to the 2 stud long axle version:

Here you can see the first version above and the improved, reinforced version below:

Even with the thicker, reinforced version the maximum angle is slightly higher than with normal CV joints, around 30 degrees and the entore length of the axle is usable, without a need for the 0,5 stud long stop.

I'm surprised just how well the tolerances and fitting are, the joint pops into the other parts with a satisfying click and the axle itself is just the right size to provide friction to the bushes.

Here you can see that suspension's maximum angle is limited by the hub and not the 3D printed CV axle:

It takes around 10 minutes and 12 centimeters of fillament to print this part, so I have a feleing I might actually use my own 3D printed versions if they turn out to be functionally identical to the official ones.

Of course they rougher and probably weaker than the upcoming official parts, but if anyone is interested in the .STL file, please let me know.

Now we can finally give the Ford Raptor a proper All Wheel Drive

Edited January 13, 2023 by Zerobricks

[msk6003]

8 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

Of course they rougher and probably weaker than the upcoming official parts

I can't show picture to you cause it's now in embargo but 100% confirm your version MUCH better than offical parts.

Edited January 13, 2023 by msk6003

[DrJB]

4 hours ago, gyenesvi said:

What about this part?

 

I'm fully aware of such part, though thanks. My point was for a planetary hub that we can customize and see the inner workings by e.g., changing the number of teeth of the sun/planets, or even build an automatic transmission with multiple-stage planetaries. The example you're showing is closed and very few people understand the inner workings.

Can you imagine if we had a planetary hub (spider/carrier + ring) and what we could do with that?

9 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

Here you can see the first version above and the improved, reinforced version below:

Very nice, though the direction of printing (stacking of PLA layers) will likely lead to weak components in torsion. It might be worthwhile to print in a perpendicular direction, though the surface finish might be less adequate.

Edited January 13, 2023 by DrJB

[Zerobricks]

9 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

What do you mean too similar? That's exactly the point. Similar to the existing ones but longer versions to allow them being used for connecting multiple parts at once. As for your idea, that's interesting, what I don't understand is why would you start with a 2L pin variant, when even a 1L pin variant does not exist. Also, can you tell what it's necessary for? Couldn't most use cases be covered by #1 and #2 connectors with 2L / 3L pins inserted? Maybe one use case I can think of is when an axle needs to be angled as in a triangle and it would not result in a full stud length and such a part would allow it to 'overflow' a bit?

I think having too many simillar looking parts can confuse builders, especially novice ones. That is why I think new parts should provide new functions and solutions, yes, but not be too similar to the existing ones.

A few example already existing parts that are too similar as it is:

• 8 and 12 tooth gears in the Defender
• Differentials in the Unimog
• Mixing up #3, #4 and #5 connectors
• And don't get me started on fender pieces
• Axles before they were color coded, especially 4,5 and 6M

[DrJB]

1 minute ago, Zerobricks said:

• And don't get me started on fender pieces
• Axles before they were color coded, especially 4,5 and 6M

+1 for fender pieces ... there are way too many of them, and to me they are of very limited usage.

As to for axles, I was sorting mine yesterday, separating into 3 colors (gray/bluishgray/black) the 3/5/7M axles ... and I discovered I had two 8M in gray. I never recalled where they came from, but then found out they belong to R2D2 ... 

[Zerobricks]

20 minutes ago, msk6003 said:

I can't show picture to you cause it's now in embargo but 100% confirm your version MUCH better than offical parts.

I'm going to assume the offical one has axle or maybe even 1L beam stop (like 5,5 axle) somewhere, thereby reducing the usable axle length to 1,5 or even less studs.

P.S. Managed to optimize the printing and got a really clean result:

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Zerobricks

[gyenesvi]

13 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

I'm not sure if this is the right topic anymore, or should I open a new one specifically for 3D printed parts?

I don't mind having them here because one purpose of the thread was indeed to possibly test manufacturing and usability of these part ideas. I'd like to stimulate discussions on why they would be useful or useless, what problems they would solve. And the best way to answer that is by testing physically :) So thanks for these interesting experiments!

13 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

Anyway, I decided to test the CV axle idea.

I actually did manage to create a 1,5 stud long one and it works at around 25 to 30 degrees max angle:

I tried to measure it with the existing pieces, and calculated it would touch the female part at around 25 degrees. But if there is some structure built around it, it could touch/rub that earlier, depending how edgy or round that part is. In your example you are lucky because the axle-pin connector under it that holds the suspension arms is round. If that had edges, they would touch earlier, no?

13 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

Even with the thicker, reinforced version the maximum angle is slightly higher than with normal CV joints, around 30 degrees and the entore length of the axle is usable, without a need for the 0,5 stud long stop.

That's interesting, so you increased the slope, right? In that case it should get blocked by the female part earlier than the original, which is around 25 degrees. Maybe you can force it a bit more, but it would have a lot of friction and wear when running. How smoothly does it run with your part at max angle?

13 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

Now we can finally give the Ford Raptor a proper All Wheel Drive

Yeah :)

22 minutes ago, msk6003 said:

I can't show picture to you cause it's now in embargo but 100% confirm your version MUCH better than offical parts.

Wow. You could leak it on FB maybe :)))

21 minutes ago, DrJB said:

My point was for a planetary hub that we can customize and see the inner workings (by changing the number of teeth of the planets, or even build an automatic transmission with multiple planetaries. The example you're showing is closed and very few people understand the inner workings.

Can you imagine if we had a planetary hub (spider/carrier + ring) and what we could do with that?

Indeed, that could be interesting to have. Though probably quite big and so impractical for transmission in actual cars if it was implemented with existing lego gears.

18 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

I think having too many simillar looking parts can confuse builders, especially novice ones. That is why I think new parts should provide new functions and solutions, yes, but not be too similar to the existing ones.

I understand that, true that it can be confusing for novices. It's kind of a trade-off though. It should not be too similar for novices, but if you want to support advanced compact building, such length variations would be useful. And I don't think some of these are any more similar than a 2L pin and a 3L pin (or axles). Color coding can always come to the rescue :)

[Zerobricks]

15 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

I don't mind having them here because one purpose of the thread was indeed to possibly test manufacturing and usability of these part ideas. I'd like to stimulate discussions on why they would be useful or useless, what problems they would solve. And the best way to answer that is by testing physically :) So thanks for these interesting experiments!

I tried to measure it with the existing pieces, and calculated it would touch the female part at around 25 degrees. But if there is some structure built around it, it could touch/rub that earlier, depending how edgy or round that part is. In your example you are lucky because the axle-pin connector under it that holds the suspension arms is round. If that had edges, they would touch earlier, no?

That's interesting, so you increased the slope, right? In that case it should get blocked by the female part earlier than the original, which is around 25 degrees. Maybe you can force it a bit more, but it would have a lot of friction and wear when running. How smoothly does it run with your part at max angle?

I understand that, true that it can be confusing for novices. It's kind of a trade-off though. It should not be too similar for novices, but if you want to support advanced compact building, such length variations would be useful. And I don't think some of these are any more similar than a 2L pin and a 3L pin (or axles). Color coding can always come to the rescue :)

Yes, cause the triple perpendicular connector is round, there were no issues. Having a beam with a sharp edge near it would drastically reduce the maximum angle.

I increased the thickness of the slope, but it's still slighty thinner than the Lego one, hence higher angle.

As with all things there are pros and cons indeed. I was actually surprised that the connectors used in the new mini dump truck's megablocks teering arms are so simillar to the already existing ones plus in the same color.

[gyenesvi]

3 hours ago, Zerobricks said:

 I think this part with 2L stud long pin instead of a 1L axle would be different enough from all the existing conenctors to warrant it's existence.

So did you mean something like these? I assume if they existed they would come with this kind of head like other connectors to allow a gear to pass next to them (for example 8T).

Another interesting class of connectors is these ones (that Cada has). I think they make arbitrary sized frame structures quite a bit simpler. Not entirely sure about the 2L, but the rest would be useful for sure.

[msk6003]

On 1/2/2023 at 11:41 PM, msk6003 said:

Or TLG make 2L CV joint which has male part on both end. I hope shorter suspension arm/shorter link come in here.

 

1 hour ago, gyenesvi said:

Wow. You could leak it on FB maybe :)))

But in 5L

[Zerobricks]

4 minutes ago, msk6003 said:

But in 5L

Don't tell me they made a double headed male CV joint without any other connectivity....

If that's the case, than it's really lame...

Also just the thought of it reminds me of double headed... Adult toys... 

[msk6003]

3 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

Don't tell me they made a double headed male CV joint without any other connectivity....

If that's the case, than it's really lame...

Also just the thought of it reminds me of double headed... Adult toys... 

you can't deny. I'm going to get several and cut some of them for making as your's.

Fore some reason it is double sided but axle on middle part like softaxle. You have axle on those part but can't use it. I don't know why.

Edited January 13, 2023 by msk6003