[MOC] Yet another Talgo (Talgo 350 / Renfe AVE S102)

[Nikonissen]

Hi, first post here! So, before I show my train, I'll tell a little about myself

I'm a 20-year-old Dane who loves trains. I'm part of the Danish LTC "Togklodsen" (The Train Brick) and Danish RLUG Byggepladen.

I've been lurking in here for some years, but for some unexplainable reason never created a profile before now.

For the next 4-5 months I won’t be building anything new since I live in Lima, Peru for the time being. The reason for that, is that I finished high school last summer, so I now have the time to get to know the family on my father’s side a bit better. (And to improve my Spanish 😉)

Back to the build:
I started in December last year, with the (to me) most interesting part: The “beak”.

 

When I had the base design and scale for the locomotive in place, I started on the wagons. This was a fairly easy process since I reused a lot of design elements from a digital Talgo built in 2021 based on the German ECx or ICE L.

When I had the design for the wagons in place, I ordered the parts only for those, the reason being that I wasn’t satisfied with the design of the locomotives yet.

 

 

So, while I was still playing around with the design of the locomotives, I was also testing different types of couplings for the wagons. This was the most frustrating part of the process. It was important to me that the bogies looked good, maintained a close coupling, and of course, actually worked when running on a layout.

 

 

 

And I tried out A LOT of different variations of the beak and the cab before I landed on the final solution.

June 2022

August 2022

Final digital model from September 2022

Almost finished loco from September 2022

But just because I had built a full train, the problems weren’t gone.

First of all, around 40% of the time the wagons would derail in R40 switches, and the wheels would occasionally come loose and derail in R40 curves/loops.

Furthermore, when I took the train on a loop at Skærbæk Fan Weekend. The locomotive in the back, pushing the train pushed the back bogie of the Talgo carriages off the rails when the train exited the curves, making it Unusable.

The coupling is made using the power of a rubberband and a letting the wagons rest on top of the one-axled bogies

Picture of the coupling before the mount for rubberband was built into the wagon. But on straight track, the distance between the wagons is short like here

On curved tracks, the distance between the wagon extends, creating space for the bogie to turn

The derailing by the locomotive was solved by moving both batteries and motors to the front locomotive. And on a national model train event in Kolding (Modeltog for alle) One of the members had built a railyard with R104 switches, which made it possible for the train to drive by itself from the sidetrack onto the main line.

So now, it drives, but only in one direction. And then there still is the elephant in the room for those who know the real design of the Renfe AVE 350: The livery design.

Yes, I know that the color of the stripes is wrong. This is simply a result from unawareness. While building, I mostly used the pictures from talgo.com not noticing that the design and placement of the stripes where a fictitious livery made for the website. So, when I return from Peru, the first thing I’ll do is correcting the stripes. After that, I will play around with the coupling technique by Ferro-Friki. Perhaps make some decals as well.

 

 

Looking forward to your posts and feedback!                                                             

//Nikolai Nissen

Edited January 8, 2023 by Nikonissen
Corrected title and added link for LTC

[Darkkostas25]

Astonishing! and a great idea on "coupling"/"connecting" wagons and bogies 

[Feuer Zug]

Incredible work. Your method for connecting is quite ingenious as @Darkkostas25 mentioned. They look good moving around the layout as well. Digital doesn't always translate well to real bricks, but here it does.

[Ferro-Friki]

It’s great to see another talented creator join this forum! I had already seen this amazing model on YouTube before, and I’m loving the fact that I get to see more of it.

If it makes you feel any better, I’ve experienced that same frustration trying to recreate the single axle bogies (Fun fact: they’re officially called “Rodales”!). I gave up on trying to have a close coupling between coaches a long time ago, as good as it may look. In my experience, if you want to make a train with realistic proportions run around Lego’s painfully tight R40 curves you’re going to need at least a three-stud gap. So it’s great to see someone break my preconceptions. Letting the “Rodal’s” joints slide back and forth to allow enough clearance on curves is brilliant!

Also, as another fun fact, did you know that the first two (irl) Talgo train prototypes (Talgo I and Talgo II) were unable to back up as well? So if your model can’t do it either it’s just capturing the authentic Talgo spirit. 

All joking aside, this model is absolutely impressive, the nose is stunning and so satisfyingly smooth. You have no idea how happy it makes me to see a brick built physical Lego recreation of this train. I’d have loved to see it run in person!

There has been more Spanish Lego train models in the past few months than in what feels like decades, and I’m all here for it! Please keep us updated if you have more of this train to show in the future, it’d make me very happy.

Also, thanks for showing interest in my Talgo “Rodal’s” design. These holidays I’ve had time to improve it and I’d like to share what I’ve got.

Mainly I’ve made the whole thing sturdier, in fact, it may be too sturdy! Two coaches coupled together are almost indivisible. Although, to be fair, that can be easily fixed by changing the four dark bluish-gray Technic pin connectors with any other piece.

I got the chance to build a single Talgo prototype coach to test the “Rodales” with it, and unfortunately the weight caused a new problem I hadn’t seen while testing with a skeletal frame before. When running on a Lego switch, while going straight ahead, if the “Rodal” happens to shift to the side where the rail is cut off it can derail. At low speeds it re-rails itself with a nasty bump and no other issue, however, at high speeds it could be a lot more troublesome. It’s possible that the 5,5 studs-long axle was either too far pushed in or not enough, causing the “Rodal” to run slightly askew. I’ll need to look further into it, though I’m pretty sure it can be fixed.

¡Saludos desde España!

[Nikonissen]

4 hours ago, Feuer Zug said:

Incredible work. Your method for connecting is quite ingenious as @Darkkostas25 mentioned. They look good moving around the layout as well. Digital doesn't always translate well to real bricks, but here it does.

Thank you so much! I agree that it aesthetically is very pleasing to watch the train go around on the grand curves. But I had to use ball bearings in the wheels. Otherwise it would be too heavy to pull, and the rubber bands would not be able to keep the wagons close together. So I also have to apply fluid Teflon / Teflon spray in the axles to keep it running. It is the train that requires the most maintenance that I’ve owned.

 

2 hours ago, Ferro-Friki said:

[...]

Also, thanks for showing interest in my Talgo “Rodal’s” design. These holidays I’ve had time to improve it and I’d like to share what I’ve got.

[...]

I got the chance to build a single Talgo prototype coach to test the “Rodales” with it, and unfortunately the weight caused a new problem I hadn’t seen while testing with a skeletal frame before. When running on a Lego switch, while going straight ahead, if the “Rodal” happens to shift to the side where the rail is cut off it can derail. At low speeds it re-rails itself with a nasty bump and no other issue, however, at high speeds it could be a lot more troublesome. It’s possible that the 5,5 studs-long axle was either too far pushed in or not enough, causing the “Rodal” to run slightly askew. I’ll need to look further into it, though I’m pretty sure it can be fixed.

It looks great! Love that you've added the window frame to act as the gangway. I bet that it would make the coupling seem more smooth from the outside.

I've had a very similar problem with R40 switches, which is why I've given up on making it work. On low speeds, most of the bogies would derail, but later re-rail after what sounds like a similar detour.

For our LTC, R104 curves and switches are the future. So I've invested in those, ballasted them and put them on Moduverse-modules (A (better imo) Scandinavian equivalent to MILS).
So now I know that I will always have a side track from where my train can go without any issues.

But I imagine that I could run into an issue with your solution for the rodales, the reason being that my wagons are all 4 studs longer. So on R104 curves it would not be a problem, but it could cause derailing on smaller radii...

¡Saludos desde Perú!

 

[Asper]

What a wonderful project! Great work on the couplings.

[Redrado]

Aside from the great model you made, which captures the Talgo 350's shape perfectly, the bogie system looks stunning, even with the issues it may have. The gap between coaches is so minimal that almost looks impossible. Quite interesting that you did it with the Talgo red stripes (similar to Renfe's) as none actually wore that livery (just a render and the evolution Talgo Avril). In fact, the original prototype from the 2000s wore a very interesting baby blue livery. Amazing job!