The Love for Printed Pieces Thread/Sticker Resentment Thread

[danth]

A large contingent of Lego fans prefer stickers over prints. And that may be an understatement. Many of us cherish prints and despise stickers.

I am one of them.

I'd like to have a thread where I, and other print fans, can explain why we love prints. And safe space where we can talk about why we don't like stickers. And just maybe, try to figure out how to get Lego to actually give us prints instead of stickers.

The reason for this is that I got into a debate in the Unpopular Opinions thread. "Nothing is wrong with stickers" they said. A truly unpopular opinion. I passionately listed reasons to dislike stickers, but then realized: that thread is not the place. People need a thread where they can express such heresy freely. So I gave sticker lovers the last word.

But this thread? Hopefully this thread can be for us printed part lovers and sticker haters!

For me, when opening a new Lego set as a kid, printed pieces were magical. They were the parts that made our sets come to life. Whether a control panel, a computer console, stony wall, or an emblazoned battle shield, just a handful of these sprinkled in could make a vaguely pleasant configuration of bricks into a real set.

The were only second to minifigs in that regard, IMO.

Imagine a space ship without these?

A spaceship would spin out of control with just a plain slope in the cockpit!

Or a castle set without these?

Lego knights wouldn't know who the enemy was. Orderly battles would turn into free-for-all melees!

But with prints, we have order and goodness.

[danth]

So what is your favorite printed piece? For me it might have to be this:

The definitive "what's wrong with stickers" list:

1. Applying a sticker is, quite literally, gluing/Krageling a piece of paper to your Lego brick
2. Putting them on perfectly straight is a challenge
3. They will inevitably get dust/lint/hair etc around the edges
4. Air bubbles
5. They peel
6. The background color/finish might not match the brick
7. Visible edges
8. They wear
9. They feel and look cheap

 

On 1/1/2023 at 2:10 PM, Karalora said:

10. Ever had a set that had you apply one sticker across multiple pieces (e.g. 7621-1, which calls for a 2 x 4 sticker to be applied across two 2 x 2 tiles). It's a rare but infuriating situation, because once you disassemble the set, you will have the devil's own time keeping that little assemblage in good condition for the next time.

11. The instructions typically call for you to put a piece in place first and then apply the sticker. This means that next time, the sticker is already applied, but the instructions depict it without, which can be confusing, especially if the same piece without a sticker is used elsewhere in the build.

    12. Water damage. You can't wash stickered parts. And you have to make sure they don't get wet.

    13. Sometimes sticker sheets will literally come out of the box with a giant CREASE through them. Good luck getting that out of your sticker. You can't crease a print.

    14. Fingerprints.

    15. You have to put them on yourself! It's a pain. And stressful since you can't easily fix a poorly placed sticker. I came here to stack bricks together, not to fiddle with sticky stuff.

Edited January 3 by danth

[danth]

Debunking the sticker utility myth

Myth: "Stickers are better because you can slap them on any brick you want!"

Can you though? Not really. Stickers have colored backing. It's going to look really weird putting, say, a sticker with white backing on a red brick. I guess you can. But how is that any better than just using on the white piece it was designed for?

Also, stickers have a shape generally matched to a brick. You can put it on a larger brick, but not a smaller brick, unless you cut it (you monster!). A sticker not going to look good on a larger brick of a different color, that's for sure. On a larger brick of the same color, it might look okay, despite the outline. But you're going to have to design around having a big enough part to fit your sticker. How is that any better than designing to incorporate a printed part?

The sticker utility argument seems to be philosophical/theoretical only. It really breaks down in reality.

[LegendaryArticuno]

22 hours ago, danth said:

Myth: "Stickers are better because you can slap them on any brick you want!"

This is 100% copium from corporate apologists. The vast majority of people are not ripping off stickers to reuse a brick, and there is never a situation where I needed a brick but wished it didn't have a print. You can easily hide the print by just alternating the print inwards or just use another common brick as a replacement.

The only time I'm okay with stickers are usually on UCS plaques/Daily Bugle TV screens since those large sticker cover over the ugly injection marks.

[danth]

Debunking the freedom of choice myth

Myth: "Stickers are better because I can choose not to put them on!"

Why would you prefer an un-stickered part to a printed piece?

1. You need the part without the print for a MOC
   1. How often does a part exist with a print (or sticker) that isn't available otherwise? This is very rare. The only thing I can think of are rounded windscreens, and stickers aren't an option there anyway.
   2. When I'm MOCing, I've had parts in wrong colors, or not enough of a certain part, or perhaps even not a single one of a part I need. But I've never had the right part in the right colors and in the right amount, but with unwanted stickers/prints on some of them. This is just an incredibly contrived problem.
   3. I've used parts with random prints all the time when MOCing. It's just extra detail. As long as it isn't super out of place, like a Fire emblem on a space ship -- although I do remember using a fire print on a space ship as a kid, and pretending it had fire-based weapons.

   4. On 1/1/2023 at 10:17 AM, LegendaryArticuno said:

      You can easily hide the print by just alternating the print inwards or just use another common brick as a replacement.

2. I kinda want a set because it would be really cool except the prints ruin it
   1. This just isn't believable for parts like consoles, computers, etc. You want the set but not with the controls? No way. Not believable.
   2. This doesn't make sense for stickers that really make the set. Like the face print on Yoshi. "I want to build Yoshi but without his eyes." No you don't. Not believable.
   3. Nobody hates graphical details like stripes, panel lines, etc. They might not be strictly necessary, but most people generally like these. They aren't ruining any sets for anyone.
   4. This might be a good argument for things like rust on the Ecto-1. Stickers make the rust optional. I'd rather have a pristine Ecto-1 than a rusty one.
      1. Still, they could include optional prints for rust/battle damage type graphics. You don't need stickers to make things optional. 
   5. This might be a good argument for faction logos. "I want the Jurassic Park jeep because it's cool, but I don't like Jurassic Park. I'm buying the set for the jeep and I'm going to leave off the stickers so I can use it as a generic jeep."
      1. Sure...but you're paying for the dinosaur, the bubble thing, and some Jurassic Park minifigs. That's not something many people are going to do if they don't like Jurassic Park. Is buying the set any better than bricklinking the parts just for the jeep, where you can also get whatever colors you want?
      2. The Jurassic Park jeep is a pretty rare example of a generically useful vehicle with a factional logo. This argument doesn't make sense for, say, a fire truck. "I want a big red truck with a fire hose, but NOT a fire fighter logo." No you don't.
      3. It might be a cool to have a bad guy X-Wing, stolen by the empire. You want to leave off the Rebel logo sticker and put on an Empire sticker. Okay, but where are you getting the Empire sticker? From another set? You could do the same thing by swapping printed parts if everything was printed.

So, the freedom of choice argument is, mostly, silly. It really only applies to the RARE graphics that are designed to be optional, like rust/battle damage. Which can also be solve by optional printed parts.

 

"It's good to have options! So I want to have a guy around that is good at punching my face. Because I can then ask him to punch my face, but only if I want to." No you don't. Because nobody is going to choose that. It's just better to not be punched in the face.

Edited January 3 by danth

[danth]

2 hours ago, LegendaryArticuno said:

The vast majority of people are not ripping off stickers to reuse a brick, and there is never a situation where I needed a brick but wished it didn't have a print.

This. You are so money right now.

[Karalora]

10. Ever had a set that had you apply one sticker across multiple pieces (e.g. 7621-1, which calls for a 2 x 4 sticker to be applied across two 2 x 2 tiles). It's a rare but infuriating situation, because once you disassemble the set, you will have the devil's own time keeping that little assemblage in good condition for the next time.

11. The instructions typically call for you to put a piece in place first and then apply the sticker. This means that next time, the sticker is already applied, but the instructions depict it without, which can be confusing, especially if the same piece without a sticker is used elsewhere in the build.

[Murdoch17]

3 hours ago, Karalora said:

10. Ever had a set that had you apply one sticker across multiple pieces (e.g. 7621-1, which calls for a 2 x 4 sticker to be applied across two 2 x 2 tiles). It's a rare but infuriating situation, because once you disassemble the set, you will have the devil's own time keeping that little assemblage in good condition for the next time.

The Maersk Sealand / Line sets were really bad at doing this. It was done over 40 times in EACH of the four versions of the ship from 2004, 2005, 2006, and again in 2010. However, at least when the Maersk Triple E set came out in 2014, the 48 stickers you placed on the cargo were only on single bricks and not multiples... but the logo was still across multiple bricks.  And all this after they said they weren't doing that stickers across multiple bricks anymore in 2008!

[Maple]

I'm actually fine with both stickers and prints. Both have there ups and downs. Sometimes I want a piece that plan for when making Mocs. My problem with stickers is LEGO being cheap and odd.

1. LEGO being cheap. Expensive sets should have two sticker sheets, in case of screw ups or years of sitting around on the bricks. This can't cost LEGO that much more and when buying a multi-hundred dollar set, it should be a given.

2. LEGO being odd. I have no idea why LEGO makes some things prints and others stickers. LEGO made a random 'picture' piece from a carnival ride set a print. There is no need for that. That should have been a sticker as it could only be used in that set. If a sticker piece can be used in multiple sets then it should be a print.

[Mylenium]

On 12/31/2022 at 7:20 PM, danth said:

And just maybe, try to figure out how to get Lego to actually give us prints instead of stickers.

They won't. With soon to be ten production facilities across the globe they just won't transport a bunch 1 x 4 x 3 bricks from Vietnam to Billund to print them or whatever people imagine would happen here. To me that's the biggest point people are always oblivious about - LEGO's internal production flow and logistics. And you can spin this however you want it. If they don't want to transport plastic pieces, they have to share molds and transport them around or create duplicates in every factory or even more critically they'll have to build a printing department in every one of them. It really is one of those things where no matter what they do they can't get it right. They've simply grown beyond a point where you can sensibly handle everything in a single place like pretty much all their many times smaller competitors. I dislike stickers as much as the next guy and never use them, but once I put on my production manager/ engineer hat, I totally get why things are as they are.

2 hours ago, Maple said:

2. LEGO being odd. I have no idea why LEGO makes some things prints and others stickers. 

Yes, certainly. Even with 4+ sets or other sets aimed at the youngest kids there is no stringent logic as to what gets printed and what is a sticker (aside from the technical stuff).

Mylenium

[MAB]

7 hours ago, Murdoch17 said:

The Maersk Sealand / Line sets were really bad at doing this. It was done over 40 times in EACH of the four versions of the ship from 2004, 2005, 2006, and again in 2010. However, at least when the Maersk Triple E set came out in 2014, the 48 stickers you placed on the cargo were only on single bricks and not multiples... but the logo was still across multiple bricks.  And all this after they said they weren't doing that stickers across multiple bricks anymore in 2008!

Splitting prints across multiple parts is no better than splitting individual stickers across multiple parts. As they are printed individually,  chances are the prints wouldn’t align properly, there is a gap due to the print not going to the edges and then there is the issue with varying print density. At least with stickers, the print density across a single sheet is consistent. And the user is able to get good alignment if they are careful.

[LegendaryArticuno]

Stickers Champions at it again in 2023... so much for going on record saying they intend to reduce the amount of stickers.

 

[danth]

14 hours ago, Maple said:

Sometimes I want a piece that plan for when making Mocs.

Not to worry friend, see Debunking the freedom of choice myth a few posts up. This will never be a problem.

12 hours ago, Mylenium said:

To me that's the biggest point people are always oblivious about - LEGO's internal production flow and logistics.

Talking about Lego's internal logistics doesn't make anyone look cool or knowledgeable. It just makes people look like corporate excuse peddlers and know-it-alls. Who care more about the power they get over fellow fans by pretending to be insiders with special knowledge than actually wanting to get better Lego products.

Lego already makes sets with prints and no stickers so they obvious have the ability to do it.

12 hours ago, Mylenium said:

I dislike stickers as much as the next guy and never use them, but once I put on my production manager/ engineer hat, I totally get why things are as they are.

You put on your engineers hat to not fix problems and accept things for how they are? You don't need an engineers hat to do that.

11 hours ago, MAB said:

Splitting prints across multiple parts is no better than splitting individual stickers across multiple parts.

Of course it is. Because prints are better than stickers.

11 hours ago, MAB said:

As they are printed individually,  chances are the prints wouldn’t align properly

Why wouldn't they align properly? I'm sure as heck not trying to get two stickers to line up perfectly 40+ times in a single set. You've gotta be crazy to think anyone prefers that over printing.

Edited January 2 by danth

[Alexandrina]

On 1/1/2023 at 7:05 PM, danth said:

When I'm MOCing, I've had parts in wrong colors, or not enough of a certain part, or perhaps even not a single one of a part I need. But I've never had the right part in the right colors and in the right amount, but with unwanted stickers/prints on some of them. This is just an incredibly contrived problem.

You might never have had this issue, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Many people - especially kids from less wealthy backgrounds - don't get very much Lego growing up. I was one of these. I have no siblings, and my mother's Lego was lost at some point in the 70s, so I inherited no Lego, and my family wasn't well-off enough that I could get much. Even though I was widely known as a huge Lego fan, I would get a handful of sets for Christmas (mostly £10/£20 sets, a £40 set if I was lucky) plus whatever I could save up to afford (I'd usually be able to scrape together about £50 to spend on Lego in a given year). Between 1998 and 2019, which were the years of my childhood collection/occasional set during my Dark Ages, I had a total of about 20k pieces - not anything to be sniffed at, but anybody here will know that 20k pieces drawn from twenty years of sets doesn't lend itself to having lots of the same part.

I also made films with my bricks (still do, on paper at least). This meant that the models I built had to be visually consistent - I couldn't just have random prints/stickers in the way, as it would ruin the aesthetic. Regular bricks were like gold dust to me - I had more white bricks than any other colour, and even then I needed to use modified bricks with the pins/clips facing away just to be able to have a six-block-high wall the length of a 32x baseplate. I pretty much never applied stickers to my sets, specifically because I usually needed the parts without the stickers. And I have very definitely had to remove stickers before (from the sets I had as a kid where I applied them as per instructions) so I could use the parts.

As an adult I'm lucky enough to be able to afford more Lego - and if I needed a specific part in a specific colour I didn't have, for 99% of occasions I can afford to buy it on Bricklink - so I don't need to worry about the stickers now. But that wasn't true when I was younger, and I'm sure there are loads of kids who withhold their stickers so they can use their bricks freely. The problem is not contrived at all.

I would caveat this by saying that I would prefer printed parts on higher-end sets (anything £100 or above) - simply because these are generally supposed to be better products, are costing more money to buy, and are usually out of the range of affordability for those who would be working with small collections in the first place.

[Toastie]

4 hours ago, danth said:

You put on your engineers hat to not fix problems and accept things for how they are? You don't need an engineers hat to do that.

That was stretching it a bit, wasn't it? You know, I am entirely with you on everything stickers related, and I love this thread; however, I am ever alerted by the word "problem"

As far as I am concerned, there is no need for any hat, I believe just plain vanilla observations may aid ...

Define "problem": For whom, and to what extent?

I simply conclude by looking at sticker mania (oh, they promised not to, but so did - almost every company out there ...), that TLG is getting away nicely with them. Over and out. Too bad, but that's capitalistic life. If any crazily money making enterprise out there gets crazily money making TLG by the balls with doing prints, I will say otherwise.

So the "problem" is maybe a more personal issue (that I certainly have), rather than a hat thing.

Best,
Thorsten

[LegendaryArticuno]

1 hour ago, Toastie said:

So the "problem" is maybe a more personal issue (that I certainly have), rather than a hat thing.

To be fair you didn't put on an "engineer's" hat at all but more of an ignorance hat. 

You really think the same storage/logistics problem Lego "suffered" from decades ago would impact Lego as a company the same way in modern times, or that Lego does not employ any supply chain experts that could come up with a solution? Wait till you learn about electronics manufacturing and the inventory of parts that are magnitudes higher and more complex than that of Lego.

Lego choosing to use stickers will always primarily be a cost saving decision. 

[dr_spock]

Unfortunately, stickers are a cost effective method of brick decoration. Large corporations are about minimizing costs and cost avoidance.

If LEGO won't print the parts you want, you can always do it yourself with UV inkjet printing. Small UV printers are available from China for a few thousand dollars. The short burst of intense UV light to cure the ink probably won't hurt ABS plastic too much. Although, it could create free radicals in the polymers to start down the yellowing path.

 

[icm]

Yeah, @danth, I think I'm going to have to side with @Alexandrina on debunking your "debunking of the freedom of choice sticker myth". I didn't have a heck of a lot of Lego as a kid either, and my stock of parts for free building was pretty small. Have you ever tried to build a starfighter where the nose cone is a 2x3 black slope with a print of a McDonald's Happy Meal character on it? I did. It wasn't very menacing. In general I hated printed parts as a kid, because I never had a use for that specific print in what I was trying to build. Well, except for control panels. I did like printed control panels. Even today I usually leave off most of the stickers in each set because I don't think they contribute all that much to the look of the set. Except the control panels. I always apply the stickers for the control panels. Now, don't get me wrong - I don't hate prints today, and I don't love stickers either - but I do often prefer to have the decorations I don't want to be stickers, because then I can leave them off. And no, I don't think it would be reasonable for Lego to include two copies of every decorated part, one decorated and one without decorations, so that you can choose whether to build the set decorated or undecorated. That would really drive up costs. So between having (say) a Ninjago or Monkie Kid set with bajillions of printed decorations that I think are ugly and I'd rather do without, or having the same set with a bajillion stickers that I can leave off, I'd rather take the set with the stickers that I can leave off.

Edited January 3 by icm

[danth]

4 hours ago, Toastie said:

I am ever alerted by the word "problem"

Don't be, it's just a word.

4 hours ago, Toastie said:

Define "problem": For whom, and to what extent?

The problem is one someone else brought up. Specifically, logistical problems with printing Lego parts. It's definitely a problem for the Lego company, since they're the ones who original framed it as the problem.

4 hours ago, Toastie said:

So the "problem" is maybe a more personal issue (that I certainly have), rather than a hat thing.

If you mean stickers. No, not a personal problem. A problem a huge portion of AFOLs have.

Even if it is just an opinion, it's one we're allowed to have. Especially in the "We hate stickers thread". Which we're in. :)

[Mylenium]

12 hours ago, danth said:

Talking about Lego's internal logistics doesn't make anyone look cool or knowledgeable. It just makes people look like corporate excuse peddlers and know-it-alls. Who care more about the power they get over fellow fans by pretending to be insiders with special knowledge than actually wanting to get better Lego products.

SRSLY? *lol*

12 hours ago, danth said:

You put on your engineers hat to not fix problems and accept things for how they are? You don't need an engineers hat to do that.

Using stickers is a decision not a "problem".

6 hours ago, LegendaryArticuno said:

You really think the same storage/logistics problem Lego "suffered" from decades ago would impact Lego as a company the same way in modern times, or that Lego does not employ any supply chain experts that could come up with a solution?

You still incur extra cost. Technically of course it's not at all an issue to manage even the biggest inventory in the day and age of computers, but you still have to transport the actual physical product.

6 hours ago, LegendaryArticuno said:

Wait till you learn about electronics manufacturing and the inventory of parts that are magnitudes higher and more complex than that of Lego.

See above. Managing it is one thing, actually moving stuff another.

Mylenium

8 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

I would caveat this by saying that I would prefer printed parts on higher-end sets (anything £100 or above)

Depends on the subject, I suppose. I never considered it relevant for Technic sets for instance when I was still into that. Price or how "precious" a set is is not necessary a criteria. To me it's usually about whether or not a print would add to the model. Sticking with the Technic example I for instance always cooling gills or fuel hatches to be printed, but at the same time I couldn't really be bothered with the branding. At the end of the day a panel plastered with advertisements is also unattractive and kinda useless for other stuff. Perhaps in the end that would be a line of thinking to pursue: Rather than wanting to have everything printed, consideration should be given how it improves the base level rudimentary appearance of a model.

Mylenium

[timemail]

As a hater of stickers I had a situation today where at least a sticker was better than a printed part. The Imperial Light Cruiser instruction manual actually has one of the stickers placed upside down which I dutifully copied and didn't realise until all the stickers were applied. It carries on throughout the entire manual as well. At least with a sticker I was able to get a replacement so that I can place one the right way up (although maybe if it was printed they wouldn't have made the same mistake). I guess in the end I will have that part with stickers the correct way, and again with stickers the wrong (although right according to the instructions) way.

I think over last year I had to use the replacement bricks service 5 times to get sticker sheets replaced due to them being damaged in the box. Between stickers and clear parts the quality control is very poor.

Dislike of stickers is very much a personal problem and not a Lego problem though. Sure they take a bit of a hit from some who prefer printed pieces, if there were only printed pieces they would take a bit of a hit from those who prefer stickers (my kids love them). Either way they look at their bottom line first and that is why we are where we are today. I would be interested to know how many people prefer stickers vs printed, and how many don't really care either way (which would probably be the majority).

 

[MAB]

12 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

I would caveat this by saying that I would prefer printed parts on higher-end sets (anything £100 or above) - simply because these are generally supposed to be better products, are costing more money to buy, and are usually out of the range of affordability for those who would be working with small collections in the first place.

Personally, I prefer prints to stickers. Although I'd also prefer any decoration to be brick built where possible.

As to expensive sets being "better products", I don't think this is true. £100+ sets are not necessarily better products, just more expensive and bigger products. The price does not necessarily mean better quality (however you define it.) If anything, the expensive sets are the ones that adults or older teens buy, so they tend to get played with less vigorously than sets for younger kids and instead are often just fairly static display models. In that sense, stickers in those sets are likely to be put on by an adult that should be able to take the time to align them neatly in a clean environment and stickers are less likely to get worn off due to heavy play. And of course, these sets are likely to have much smaller volumes than small sets. So I can understand stickers in expensive sets, even though it feels that the higher priced premium sets should not have them as they are expensive.

While I'd prefer to have all printed in the bigger and 18+ sets but, like those other "corporate shills" of the same mindset that can understand that there is a cost associated with it, I don't think I'd want prices to increase further if such a change was made. I think if anything, I'd prefer to see less decoration overall within sets than increased costs. I'd also like to see decoration used where it really needs to be, and not where it doesn't add much. I think Modulars and some sets like Haunted House are doing quite well here: in 2500-3000 part sets, there are typically only 10-20 printed parts (excluding minifigures) and while some are unique to the set, quite a few of the prints appear in other sets too. Whereas sets where lots of unique pictorial details are packed in like the Sanctum Sanctorium (45 stickers) and Ninjago City (56 stickers), tend to have stickers. Would people have been happier if there were half as many decorated parts in the Sanctum Sanctorium set. but they were printed instead? What if there was just 4 or 5 unique printed parts? I'm not sure I would.

 

 

[Lira_Bricks]

Printed pieces will not drive the prices up in itself, those prices are already going up all by themselves just fine to increase the profit of the Lego Company even more

I didn't like stickers as a child and don't like them now. Reasons can be found in the other sticker-haters comments ^^

[danth]

5 hours ago, timemail said:

As a hater of stickers I had a situation today where at least a sticker was better than a printed part. The Imperial Light Cruiser instruction manual actually has one of the stickers placed upside down which I dutifully copied and didn't realise until all the stickers were applied. It carries on throughout the entire manual as well. At least with a sticker I was able to get a replacement so that I can place one the right way up (although maybe if it was printed they wouldn't have made the same mistake). I guess in the end I will have that part with stickers the correct way, and again with stickers the wrong (although right according to the instructions) way.

Wait, so stickers are better because if you put them on wrong, you can get replacements? I don't get it. You can't put a print on wrong because they're already on...

Or is it that it was easier to replace the sticker than turning the piece around?

9 hours ago, Mylenium said:

Using stickers is a decision not a "problem".

I'm talking about the logistical problems you raised. The ones that Lego themselves described. That they described, in fact, as a response to complaints about stickers.

Lego isn't going to craft a PR response to complaints about stickers if they're not getting loads of them.

So obviously using stickers is a problem for many AFOLs. Look on reddit, or here, or Brickset in all the Galaxy Explorer or Blacktron Cruiser sets. One of the most repeated comments was "yay no stickers!" for the Galaxy Explorer. And "boo stickers!" for the Blacktron Cruiser.

Edited January 3 by danth

[Lira_Bricks]

1 hour ago, danth said:

You can't put a print on wrong because they're already on

Funny you mention it. It seems difficult for Lego to properly apply prints to those small 1x1 round tiles At least there are always spare parts in sets and it has never happened to me that both were misprinted :P