The Love for Printed Pieces Thread/Sticker Resentment Thread

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Lira_Bricks said:

Printed pieces will not drive the prices up in itself, those prices are already going up all by themselves just fine to increase the profit of the Lego Company even more

If they increase the number of printed parts per set and hence their internal costs, prices will go up even more (relatively). 

An interesting experiment would be for LEGO to sell sticker sheets full of Classic Space logos in various sizes, past castle faction logos to fit on shields,  panels, and similar. They'd be great for purist MOCs and could be put on a wide range of parts. Especially if die cut on transparent sheets.

[danth]

15 hours ago, icm said:

I didn't have a heck of a lot of Lego as a kid either, and my stock of parts for free building was pretty small. Have you ever tried to build a starfighter where the nose cone is a 2x3 black slope with a print of a McDonald's Happy Meal character on it? I did.

Oof. That's a toughy.

15 hours ago, icm said:

It wasn't very menacing.

Wait, was it this guy?

Because that would be terrifying to see on your six in a dogfight.

Seriously though, those prints are pretty bad. If that was my first experience with prints I might have hated them too.

But I never had those, so I don't hold the badness of those prints against the existence of prints in general. If you were like me as a kid, any other print would have just added detail to your starfighter. I remember using ones like this on my spaceships:

What's the two for? I dunno, but it was cool, it was detail, and it had speed stripes.

I will say this though. If you were forced to use a McDonalds slope as your nosecone, that means that literally every other part in your collection was also not the part you wanted. The print was no less useful to you than any other part in your collection.

Like I was trying to say before, that sounds like a small collection problem, not a print problem. As a kid, I never had all the parts I needed. Not the right parts or the right colors. A part with a print to me is no different than a modified plate when you really want the unmodified plate.

I also think your specific example is incredibly rare. That's literally the worst print ever. And you had literally no other slopes. Even as a poor kid with most of my Lego from yard sales, I always had a few blank slopes.

I get the point though. A sticker would have saved your MOC. But removing a sticker is one option of many, if you have other bricks. If you had them, 2 1x3 slopes would have also saved your MOC, or a 2x2 slope if you were willing to go snubbier, or curved slopes if you had them on hand and liked the look. Maybe your collection didn't give you those options.

Personally, I'm not willing to trade prints for the the one option of removing stickers, I'd choose anything else over losing prints.

Edited January 3, 2023 by danth

[icm]

You guessed it!

 You’re right though, that’s more of a small collection problem than a prints vs stickers problem.

I did really like the prints in the 1999 Star Wars sets. Today I mostly prefer prints, but like I said before, I (and many others) like to have the option to leave off stickers. Too many sets just have too many decorations, and I usually prefer the cleaner look of leaving them off.

 If a set has a nice, tasteful, limited set of decorations where every one is really essential to the look of the thing (the new Galaxy Explorer is the gold standard for this) I do prefer prints.

[danth]

8 minutes ago, icm said:

You guessed it!

No way! I just picked the one that looked the most like, well, nightmare fuel.

8 minutes ago, icm said:

I did really like the prints in the 1999 Star Wars sets. Today I mostly prefer prints, but like I said before, I (and many others) like to have the option to leave off stickers. Too many sets just have too many decorations, and I usually prefer the cleaner look of leaving them off.

 If a set has a nice, tasteful, limited set of decorations where every one is really essential to the look of the thing (the new Galaxy Explorer is the gold standard for this) I do prefer prints.

Yes! I think if Lego ditched stickers, they wouldn't replace them all with prints, they would replace the necessary ones with prints. So you would kill, say, three or four stickers with one print. And get cleaner sets.

[danth]

19 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

I also made films with my bricks (still do, on paper at least). This meant that the models I built had to be visually consistent - I couldn't just have random prints/stickers in the way, as it would ruin the aesthetic. Regular bricks were like gold dust to me - I had more white bricks than any other colour, and even then I needed to use modified bricks with the pins/clips facing away just to be able to have a six-block-high wall the length of a 32x baseplate.

That's part of my point. Printed parts are no worse than other specialized parts, like modified plates that you have to turn around in your MOCs. In my experience, prints are the rarest issue, it's all the other parts you don't have at all or in the right color.

19 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

And I have very definitely had to remove stickers before (from the sets I had as a kid where I applied them as per instructions) so I could use the parts.

Ouch, I would hate removing stickers. In my mind, once a sticker is on, it's like a print, and removing it feels like destroying something.

Were they old stickers by the time you removed them? Wondering how they held up. Maybe it doesn't feel as bad if they're already peeling or scuffed up.

Anyway, I think if Lego decided to get rid of stickers, they wouldn't replace them all with prints. They'd replace essential stickers with prints, and just not print all the silly stuff. Then you probably wouldn't need to remove stickers anyway.

19 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

The problem is not contrived at all.

To be fair, building big blank walls to make films sounds like a rare case.

Edited January 3, 2023 by danth

[timemail]

3 hours ago, danth said:

Wait, so stickers are better because if you put them on wrong, you can get replacements? I don't get it. You can't put a print on wrong because they're already on...

Or is it that it was easier to replace the sticker than turning the piece around?

It was a tongue in cheek response. Hard to convey in text.

Just that terrible stickers were better than the lack of quality control which led to a set instructions having a sticker applied upside down in the instruction manual.

If it was a printed piece then there would be no option to turn the print over.

Don't know how to quote multiple quotes on different pages but your point on the other page about printed pieces just being another specialist part is the key for me. At least with a print I could remove it (yes you can wipe them off without visible damage to the brick) or turn it around if I wanted to. An umbrella is just an umbrella and while it can be worked into a build in most cases a 1 x 2 with an unwanted print will get more use than an umbrella or other specialty piece (although there are those who strive for NPU).

 

[danth]

3 minutes ago, timemail said:

It was a tongue in cheek response. Hard to convey in text.

Ha! Sorry. It went over my head!

[Johnny1360]

I do agree prints are generally preferable but before stickers are eliminated they need to dramatically improve their printing process, prints on round parts are hardly ever centered properly and they seem to have a hard time making multiple printed parts in a row actually line up, the Ford Mustang is a good example of that. There are also problems with background colors bleeding thru the prints, which makes the color look faded or worse not even the color it should be, the dinosaurs are a good example of that, reds looking brown. Then some parts are so thin that a print can even appear to be opaque on them. Stickers work well in those cases, so yeah prints are theoretically better in many cases but only with a much improved  printing process.

Personally I like stickers 90% of the time but that is only because I choose not to  apply them and am grateful for that option. However there are a few prints that are spot on and I wouldn't want it any other way.

[Alexandrina]

2 hours ago, danth said:

Ouch, I would hate removing stickers. In my mind, once a sticker is on, it's like a print, and removing it feels like destroying something.

Were they old stickers by the time you removed them? Wondering how they held up. Maybe it doesn't feel as bad if they're already peeling or scuffed up.

About six years old, I think. They were from 2001's Blue Bus (which I probably got End of Life as none of my other childhood collection is from 2001 but I do have a handful of 2003/4 sets) and I took the stickers off in 2008. I don't remember them being peeling but they might have been - I know the stickers that survived that same set intact (on the slope, for instance) are in a terrible condition now.

2 hours ago, danth said:

To be fair, building big blank walls to make films sounds like a rare case.

Possible - but it's not like brickfilming is an unheard-of thing. Even in my childhood there was a decent community, and it's only swollen post Lego Movie/with the ubiquity of smartphones.

2 hours ago, danth said:

In my experience, prints are the rarest issue, it's all the other parts you don't have at all or in the right color.

Oh, I agree on that point. I was more likely growing up to not have a part at all than to have it ruined by a print. But my gut reaction was different each time - if I genuinely didn't have a piece, then that's that, but when I had exactly the piece I wanted in the colour I wanted but with a print on it, it had the sting of what might have been.

Honestly I feel like I've somehow found myself arguing the stickers corner in a printed pieces thread, which isn't my intention at all - I prefer prints to stickers, usually, though I also feel like Lego have the tendency to overdo the decorations nowadays. I'd quite happily see the amount of decorations reduced to a fraction of its current number if they could all be done in prints. I just also remember my childhood days of hating anything printed that I couldn't use.

[Vindicare]

9 hours ago, danth said:

Wait, so stickers are better because if you put them on wrong, you can get replacements? I don't get it. You can't put a print on wrong because they're already on...

My friend got the Speed Champions Lambo & 2 of the wheels prints were off centered. That’s a wrong print. And printing on some minifigs, white printing on black bricks, or the Red/white...or should I say pink, Lion faction is bad printing. 

[Mylenium]

13 hours ago, Lira_Bricks said:

Funny you mention it. It seems difficult for Lego to properly apply prints to those small 1x1 round tiles

Hard to center those little buggers if you print a few thousand of them per hour. I'm sure the holding notch is very flat and there's a lot of unwanted slipping going on.

Mylenium

[Johnny1360]

5 hours ago, Mylenium said:

Hard to center those little buggers if you print a few thousand of them per hour. I'm sure the holding notch is very flat and there's a lot of unwanted slipping going on.

Mylenium

As well as the bigger 2x2 round tiles. It really looks bad when insignias on Star Wars ships are off center and I wish they would make them stickers, if they are unable to even get the prints centered, as I mentioned in my previous post.

[Maple]

Jang just posted a video of 60389, City Car garage. There are 8 really weird prints for car blueprints and the cockpit piece. However the sides of the cars and the garage logo are stickers. Those 6 pieces are double so you would only need 3 prints instead of 8. I'd be really curious for the designers to explain why they did the stickers and prints the way they did.

[A_Forest_of_Lego]

Danth, it's almost like you can read my mind, because you have really listed all the reasons why I prefer printed bricks over stickers.

On 12/31/2022 at 1:20 PM, danth said:

And just maybe, try to figure out how to get Lego to actually give us prints instead of stickers.

Have you any ideas on that? The first thought that comes to mind is a petition, but I honestly don't feel like it would be useful, since Lego already seems to be aware of the many people who would prefer to have printed parts.

I must say, before reading this thread, I didn't even know that some people actually prefered stickers. Has anyone ever made a poll to know what's the general preference?

[danth]

I do have ideas! I'm going to do a big post on it, soon. Was taking a break though.

Oh, it's not even close. The vast, VAST majority of people prefer prints. Like, to the point where I wonder, are the people who prefer stickers just gaslighting, or just being contrarians, or just trying to feel special?

At least on reddit, the vast majority prefer PRINTS, based on what posts/comments get the most upvotes:

The top comment from the second post is literally this:

Quote

Lol. I don’t want to meet the person that enthusiastically answers “stickers!” I understand why we get stickers, but I don’t think there’s a person out there who wouldn’t prefer prints 100% of the time.

And the next 20 highest replies are all in favor of prints.

[LegendaryArticuno]

Yep it's so much more refreshing and enjoyable to build a set without any stickers.

[MAB]

13 hours ago, danth said:

I do have ideas! I'm going to do a big post on it, soon. Was taking a break though.

Oh, it's not even close. The vast, VAST majority of people prefer prints. Like, to the point where I wonder, are the people who prefer stickers just gaslighting, or just being contrarians, or just trying to feel special?

At least on reddit, the vast majority prefer PRINTS, based on what posts/comments get the most upvotes:

 

I think the results of any survey will depend on what question is asked.

If you ask AFOLs whether they prefer stickers to prints, I think most will come down on the side of prints. But what if you ask them would they prefer sets with less decorated parts with prints instead of more decorated parts with stickers (So for example a set can have 48 stickered parts or 12 printed parts). I imagine that will be less extreme than asking just stickers vs prints. And what if you can have the same amount of prints as stickers, but the cost is 10% (or whatever) higher. Again I think the vote will be less extreme than just stickers vs prints.

There are reasons that LEGO does stickers and not prints. It is necessary to understand what the alternatives would be before asking questions if you want meaningful results in a survey.

 

I recently rebuilt 76023 The Tumbler. That has a sticker sheet for 14 decorated parts, plus the plaque sticker. The majority of those stickers were inside so not seen on display. There were also a couple of common decorated printed parts.

Would I have preferred prints instead of stickers? Yes.

Would I have paid an extra $5 for the set if it had them printed instead of stickered? Probably.

Would I have paid an extra $14 for the set if it had them printed instead of stickered? Maybe.

Would I have paid an extra $25 for the set if it had them printed instead of stickered? No.

Would I have bought the set at the same price if there were no stickered or printed parts? Yes.

I think I would prefer to see far fewer decorated parts overall or none rather than increased prices for sets due to increased numbers of printed parts.

 

But then for other sets, it might be a different scenario. My daughter was playing with her Heartlake Surf Shop 41315 a few days ago. That has quite a bit of decoration through stickers. If those stickered parts were plain instead, the set would lose a lot of its charm. If they were all printed it would no doubt cost more. They could produce a load of common printed parts that get reused in multiple sets, so the door could be printed with the word open on it, and then reuse that for every shop rather than have a specific decoration for this shop. They could also reduce the number of decorated parts, so maybe no decoration on the surf boards (so they wouldn't match the sign) and/or remove the sign, and remove the beach themed decorations. But again, it loses something special if they do that.

I would have preferred prints to stickers. But if it cost more for printed parts, I doubt I would have bought it for her. If it cost the same but only a couple of printed parts, I might have still bought it but less likely. For me, it is important to know what the alternative is before saying I want only printed parts and no stickers.

Some people can understand, without being gaslighters, contrarians or wanting to be special, that stickers and prints are not equivalent both in user experience and in cost, but that these two aspects go hand in hand.

If asked would I prefer something to be higher quality or lower quality, I'd go for higher quality. Yet when actually spending money, I might go for the lower quality item based on the cost difference even though I said I prefer higher quality (when cost was not part of the discussion).

 

 

[A_Forest_of_Lego]

On 1/23/2023 at 4:32 PM, danth said:

I do have ideas! I'm going to do a big post on it, soon.

I'm looking forward to hearing them!

16 hours ago, MAB said:

Would I have paid an extra $5 for the set if it had them printed instead of stickered? Probably.

Would I have paid an extra $14 for the set if it had them printed instead of stickered? Maybe.

Would I have paid an extra $25 for the set if it had them printed instead of stickered? No.

Would I have bought the set at the same price if there were no stickered or printed parts? Yes.

I think I would prefer to see far fewer decorated parts overall or none rather than increased prices for sets due to increased numbers of printed parts.

I must say, I'd find it hard to believe that the price difference could be that high just because of printed parts. And of course an extra 25$ for a 500$ set is not quite the same as an extra 25$ for a 30$ set. I could understand the need to keep the cost low for small sets that are aimed at kids because of course parents want something that is not too expensive. But for bigger, already expensive sets that are aimed at adults, I feel a slightly higher price wouldn't make that much of a difference. And I agree with you, I would rather have fewer, well selected decorated parts of high quality than tons of stickers.

[MAB]

5 hours ago, A_Forest_of_Lego said:

I must say, I'd find it hard to believe that the price difference could be that high just because of printed parts.

It is not just the cost of printing, there is the cost of having extra parts that need to be both catalogued and stored. But yes, we don't really know what the costs of printed vs stickered parts are. We can guess by looking at the price of printed parts on the online PAB, although the differences of prints compared to the plain parts vary quite a bit. That is really why we would need to know what the alternative would be when answering the question of "would you buy sets with prints rather than stickers", as the results are likely to be different to "do you prefer prints rather than stickers", even though the question appears similar.

[A_Forest_of_Lego]

12 hours ago, MAB said:

It is not just the cost of printing, there is the cost of having extra parts that need to be both catalogued and stored. But yes, we don't really know what the costs of printed vs stickered parts are. We can guess by looking at the price of printed parts on the online PAB, although the differences of prints compared to the plain parts vary quite a bit. That is really why we would need to know what the alternative would be when answering the question of "would you buy sets with prints rather than stickers", as the results are likely to be different to "do you prefer prints rather than stickers", even though the question appears similar.

If they design the prints so they can be used in multiple sets, it would help keep the cost down. A good way to compare the price would be to find two similar sets with about the same amount of parts - one set with only stickers and the other set with only printed parts - and then compare the price.

[danth]

13 hours ago, MAB said:

That is really why we would need to know what the alternative would be when answering the question of "would you buy sets with prints rather than stickers", as the results are likely to be different to "do you prefer prints rather than stickers", even though the question appears similar.

Nope.

It's a simple of question of preference we were talking about. Do people prefer prints or stickers? That's it.

When I ask people "Do you prefer cheese or pepperoni pizza", people just pick one. They don't go into long rabbit holes about hidden costs. "I like cheese better, but what's the cost? Will I receive a poke with a sharp stick as I receive the cheese pizza? Because then I pick pepperoni." Said nobody ever.

The question of stickers vs prints sure make people say weird things.

It's a simple question of preference!

If you say "I like prints but not if they cost more", then guess what: You prefer prints.

Edited January 25, 2023 by danth

[Yperio_Bricks]

26 minutes ago, danth said:

When I ask people "Do you prefer cheese or pepperoni pizza", people just pick one. They don't go into long rabbit holes about hidden costs. "I like cheese better, but what's the cost? Will I receive a poke with a sharp stick as I receive the cheese pizza? Because then I pick pepperoni." Said nobody ever.

Haha you nailed it!

[icm]

^^ That's because this isn't a forum run by and for pizza aficionados, where all we do is talk about pizza!  I bet there's all sorts of threads like that on a forum like that ... not that I'm going to take the time to try and find one :)

[danth]

1 hour ago, icm said:

^^ That's because this isn't a forum run by and for pizza aficionados, where all we do is talk about pizza!  I bet there's all sorts of threads like that on a forum like that ... not that I'm going to take the time to try and find one :)

Eh, still don't agree. "What do you like better" is not a trick question, whether it's pizza topping or sticker vs prints.

Here's what we should be discussing: what if the "cost" of prints was that the Kristiansen family makes 1.898 billion Euros in a year instead of 1.899? I'm sure everyone here would be fine with that...right? Right?

[icm]

I'd be fine with that.