LordsofMedieval

Powered Up 'M' Motors?

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I've never used Powered Up. With PF products becoming rarer and more expensive, I suppose that means I should start trying to incorporate PU more.

With regards to the M motors specifically: how do they fare in trains applications? Are two of them 'enough' for a smaller locomotive? Or should they be avoided at all costs in favor of the large motors?

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Also, can you couple more than 2 PU motors to a hub? Or can you control 2 hubs simultaneously? Like, I might be able to squeeze 3 M motors into this thing, but I would need to use 2 hubs, correct?

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It sounds like you are focusing on the 2ch PuP City hub, but if you can consider (have space for) the bigger 4ch PuP Technic Hub, you can attach your 3 motors and create a custom program in PuP app to control all of them from a smart phone. Using only one hub ! (with AA batteries as a bonus)

I prefer to use std PuP train motors when possible, for simplicity and reliability reasons. Here's an example of my Rc "work horse" locomotive using the bigger hub with two train motors and two sets of led:s. It works really well.

Rc locomotive with Technic hub 88012

 

Edited by Selander
Spelling mistake

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With my Big Boy I had two M motors (and a City Hub) and the M motors did not have enough torque to let the locomotive drive slowly only with tender. My industrial train and tram run fine with the M motor. So depends a bit on what you want to do with the M motor. Another plus from PU is the fact that you can hook up a color sensor to program in stops. Did that with the tram an Pybricks and works fine, no telephone or tablet needed. 

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11 hours ago, LordsofMedieval said:

With regards to the M motors specifically: how do they fare in trains applications? Are two of them 'enough' for a smaller locomotive? Or should they be avoided at all costs in favor of the large motors? 

For a "smaller" locomotive they are suitable, one of them.

As usual all infos can be found her:

https://www.philohome.com/motors/motorcomp.htm

I prefer the "medium linear motor" (88008) , as it offers much more  features.

Please note that the so called M-motor ("simple medium linear motor" 45303 ) is a long retired.

 

 

 

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The M Motors and L motors are similar in speed, but as far as I could see - under heavy load the L motor is stronger. I normally use a stronger motor instead of two weak ones.

I tried both L motor and XL motor (both PuP) on my G scale garden trains and the XL is a good beast, but also L is not so bad (better have an higher final gear ratio with heavy trains). For the battery box - absolutely go for the bigger one if you can. The small one is a space-saver but it is easily drained by bigger motors.

Personally I still prefer the PF motors , still widely available if you don't mind to have "Lego"  written on them :pir-triumph:

Ciao!

Davide

 

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2 minutes ago, Paperinik77pk said:

Personally I still prefer the PF motors

But they do something completly different, as they don't have any feedback  (most of the PU motors have an implemented tacho and allow speed regulation via the software)

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I’ll be blunt, my experience is very little, but I’ve found if you can go larger, go larger, even if with fewer motors - so if you can fit 2 large then I’d definitely do that, and 1 may be enough.  It also obviously depends on what it’s pulling - if you’re pulling a long heavy train it’s going to need more power!

It may also be worth noting that train motors are designed to have a far higher RPM - the PU train motor’s RPM is 1760 and the L motor’s is only 315.

Edited by Vilhelm22

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7 minutes ago, Lok24 said:

You'll find problems running two L motors on one City Hub......

Fair point.  Hadn’t thought of that whoops.  However I’d say 1 L is better than 2 M if you’re only looking at that power level.

My solutions may not be the best on here - I’m aware that some people here are far more experienced than me!

Edited by Vilhelm22

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7 hours ago, Lok24 said:

But they do something completly different, as they don't have any feedback  (most of the PU motors have an implemented tacho and allow speed regulation via the software)

Yes, correct. :thumbup:  It was a more generic consideration not so well explained. I'll try to clarify better.

I prefer the PF system for its simplicity and analogic feel (with those adorable switch levers), but on many trains I use PuP, which allows a lot of things to be simulated via software (slow downs, accelerations).

PuP - for me at least -  It's less immediate than PF, but it's nice. In both cases - the small battery box with AAA batteries  have serious problems of lastability, with big motors. :laugh:

 

 

 

 

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Unless your drivetrain is really inefficient, you're going to run out of weight (wheelslip) before you run out of torque (motor stalls). I haven't encountered an application where I needed more than two M motors, and that was mostly for convenience of construction. All of my designs have clocked in under 1000g.

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  Consider also whether you need high speed ability or low speed torque.  I will cite a build of my own only as an example of the concept, since in my case I was using the original 9V train motors.  I am constructing a 3-bogie, modern multi-segment tram model.   For the sake of cost I tried to get away with using two motors and one un-powered brick-built bogie.  While two of these motors certainly can deliver a fair amount of torque, the internal gearing is optimized for high speed.  The two motors had much difficulty smoothly starting at low speed and maintaining consistent slow speed, particularly through curves.  In the end I rebuilt the un-powered section to take a third motor, and the resulting behavior is much better, considering my need for this model to always operate at relatively low speeds.  (As a side note, some of the 9V train motors are inconsistent in speed and in the required voltage to get the rotor spinning in the motor, so I've tested a number of them to find the better ones for this application.)

  Had I been building my own drives using separate motors and gears, low speed optimization would most certainly not have been a problem, but complexity and fragility potentially would have been.  I've experimented with quite a few different drive designs and found that each motor type has an optimal gearing where there is a balance of speed and starting torque.  Each combination will suit different build situations depending on what you want to accomplish in terms of weight/speed/starting torque/size/battery load/run time/hub max capacity/build strength, etc.

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One PU Simple Medium Motor was able to drive the Crocodile locomotive with 5 short 2 axle cars on level track. It was no speed demon.  I think the recommended motor for the Crocodile in the instructions is the PU L-motor.

simple_m_motor.jpg

I think it would not be a bad idea of have one of each motor types on hand to test what works for the MOC.  There are many variables to consider.

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On 12/27/2022 at 5:57 PM, UltraViolet said:

Had I been building my own drives using separate motors and gears, low speed optimization would most certainly not have been a problem,

Just use PU motors with tacho function. Extremly low speed, no gear at all needed , one medium linear motor, have a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaNMkoPSUSA

 

Edited by Lok24

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