Fondor Haulcraft - where’s the MOCS?

[LordsofMedieval]

18 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

And my issue with the holdo manuver isn't that it worked, but that if it works, why isn't it constantly used?

Poe - I think? (I haven't watched the movie after The Last Jedi bloodied my fandom so bad) - actually says it was a "one in a million" chance in Rise of Skywalker. That was one of JJ's "outs" for Rian Johnson's many, many unsolvable lore issues introduced in TLJ. This isn't in anyway exonerate JJ "somehow, Palpatine returned" Abrams... merely acknowledging that he was left with a mess, and that was his explanation to solve the riddle as to why all capital ships aren't simply kamikaze'd by drone-flown vessels with hyperdrives. 

Ultimately, the issue here is fairly simple: well-written fantasy respects its own rules, and doesn't do things simply because they look neat - especially if those things would cause all kinds of continuity issues that past and future content will have to explain. There are thousands of easy (some smart; some stupid) explanations you could provide to someone asking why the ships in Star Wars didn't do the Holdo Maneuver... until we saw the Holdo Maneuver performed on what appeared to be a whim. And then, suddenly, there was the cat, not only out of the bag but fixing itself a sandwich while hissing. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by LordsofMedieval

[jdubbs]

31 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

And my issue with the holdo manuver isn't that it worked, but that if it works, why isn't it constantly used?

Again, because most people aren't suicidal, or willing to sacrifice the lives of every member of their crew to destroy another ship.

18 minutes ago, LordsofMedieval said:

There are thousands of easy (some smart; some stupid) explanations you could provide to someone asking why the ships in Star Wars didn't do the Holdo Maneuver... until we saw the Holdo Maneuver performed on what appeared to be a whim. And then, suddenly, there was the cat, not only out of the bag but fixing itself a sandwich while hissing. 

I'm not seeing how Holdo's choice to sacrifice her own life in order to save the rebellion constitutes a "whim". It's pretty clearly a move of desperation... I would call it "inspired" if anything.

In real life, no one had ever hijacked a plane... until someone hijacked a plane. And then, for many years following, the practice was disturbingly common. The same goes for most any other act of terrorism or guerrilla warfare, which don't need to be listed here. The fact that no one had done the Holdo maneuver doesn't really require any explanation other than, no one had done it yet.

[LordsofMedieval]

4 hours ago, jdubbs said:

Again, because most people aren't suicidal, or willing to sacrifice the lives of every member of their crew to destroy another ship.

I'm not seeing how Holdo's choice to sacrifice her own life in order to save the rebellion constitutes a "whim". It's pretty clearly a move of desperation... I would call it "inspired" if anything.

In real life, no one had ever hijacked a plane... until someone hijacked a plane. And then, for many years following, the practice was disturbingly common. The same goes for most any other act of terrorism or guerrilla warfare, which don't need to be listed here. The fact that no one had done the Holdo maneuver doesn't really require any explanation other than, no one had done it yet.

In a galaxy of hundreds of trillions, where moon-sized battle stations and capital ships can literally obliterate the population of entire worlds; where space combat and hyperspeed has existed for thousands of years, nobody ever... ever considered jumping to lightspeed to destroy their enemy? I mean, you can't argue that people didn't employ self sacrifice, because Arvel Crynyd did it. And every piece of canon information that we possess declares that the deed was voluntary - he was on a one-way trip of his own accord.

You can like the new movies - nobody is telling you what to or not enjoy. But I'm never going to do anything but roll my eyes at this particular plot hole. Because it was glaring. And Poe's 'okay, all better' statement was like slapping a bandaid on a missing limb. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by LordsofMedieval

[jdubbs]

1 hour ago, LordsofMedieval said:

In a galaxy of hundreds of trillions, where moon-sized battle stations and capital ships can literally obliterate the population of entire worlds; where space combat and hyperspeed has existed for thousands of years, nobody ever... ever considered jumping to lightspeed to destroy their enemy? I mean, you can't argue that people didn't employ self sacrifice, because Arvel Crynyd did it. And every piece of canon information that we possess declares that the deed was voluntary - he was on a one-way trip of his own accord.

You can like the new movies - nobody is telling you what to or not enjoy. But I'm never going to do anything but roll my eyes at this particular plot hole. Because it was glaring. And Poe's 'okay, all better' statement was like slapping a bandaid on a missing limb. 

I'm not really seeing why it matters one way or another, whether Holdo was the first, or merely the first to be depicted... but I'm guessing you won't be satisfied either way.

If the Holdo maneuver had happened before, then there is this supposed problem of, why we haven't seen it? (because our understanding of Star Wars history is clearly exhaustive, through the maybe 100 hours of programming released to date... most of which spans a few decades of time). On the other hand, if it hadn't happened before, then there is this supposed problem of, why not? for which apparently the "there's a first time for everything" answer is insufficient... even though virtually every other Star Wars show or movie does something previously unseen at one point or another, and very few of those new things warranted on-screen explanation. It seems to me the real problem here is that it breaks certain viewers’ rather narrow headcanon about what supposedly can and cannot happen in Star Wars...

But, all this aside, do you really want to restrict storytelling to this degree? Where every new show or movie must slavishly replicate the choices and actions of the stories that preceded it? Are we to just watch movies of farmboys blowing up Death Stars, over and over? I personally go to the movies hoping to see something new… something unexpected, something that will surprise and delight. If I wanted to see the same story told over and over again, well… I’d go see a Marvel movie. 

Was TLJ perfect? No… but if I were going to pick at things in it, I’d start with the corny jokes or the tension-sapping slow-speed chase or the over-reliance on giant gray machines that needed to be destroyed… not the fact that they tried something new when it came time to blow something up. 

To try to steer this back to something vaguely on topic… I love Luthen and his Haulcraft, with or without its side-mounted lasers-lightsabers-kyber-whatever-they-were, which I honestly don’t think need any kind of explanation, either on-screen or by fans. I hope we see as many MOCs of it as we did of the Razor Crest. And, fingers crossed, an official set in the new year.

[LordsofMedieval]

23 minutes ago, jdubbs said:

I'm not really seeing why it matters one way or another, whether Holdo was the first, or merely the first to be depicted... but I'm guessing you won't be satisfied either way.

If the Holdo maneuver had happened before, then there is this supposed problem of, why we haven't seen it? (because our understanding of Star Wars history is clearly exhaustive, through the maybe 100 hours of programming released to date... most of which spans a few decades of time). On the other hand, if it hadn't happened before, then there is this supposed problem of, why not? for which apparently the "there's a first time for everything" answer is insufficient... even though virtually every other Star Wars show or movie does something previously unseen at one point or another, and very few of those new things warranted on-screen explanation. It seems to me the real problem here is that it breaks certain viewers’ rather narrow headcanon about what supposedly can and cannot happen in Star Wars...

But, all this aside, do you really want to restrict storytelling to this degree? Where every new show or movie must slavishly replicate the choices and actions of the stories that preceded it? Are we to just watch movies of farmboys blowing up Death Stars, over and over? I personally go to the movies hoping to see something new… something unexpected, something that will surprise and delight. If I wanted to see the same story told over and over again, well… I’d go see a Marvel movie. 

Was TLJ perfect? No… but if I were going to pick at things in it, I’d start with the corny jokes or the tension-sapping slow-speed chase or the over-reliance on giant gray machines that needed to be destroyed… not the fact that they tried something new when it came time to blow something up. 

To try to steer this back to something vaguely on topic… I love Luthen and his Haulcraft, with or without its side-mounted lasers-lightsabers-kyber-whatever-they-were, which I honestly don’t think need any kind of explanation, either on-screen or by fans. I hope we see as many MOCs of it as we did of the Razor Crest. And, fingers crossed, an official set in the new year.

This has bern kind of thread-derailing (my fault [and I don't just mean the above quote, but my stuff too]), so I'll leave off on any further debate here. Sorry to the OP for the distraction. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by LordsofMedieval

[lowlead]

On 12/2/2022 at 11:14 AM, LordsofMedieval said:

...On the flip side of the coin, the base design of the ship is really neat - kind of a squished Falcon. And @azanderk's initial work on that cockpit is freaking inspired MOCing. Very impressed.

I noticed this as well - many similarities to the MF.  Circular 'docking rings,' side boarding ramp, asymmetric cockpit, dorsal cannons.  It's like a stretched Falcon, except more rectangular and faceted...with articulating wings...and light sabers.  *nerdgasm*

[MBricks]

2Bricks just posted a great Moc:

https://www.instagram.com/p/ClweggovenZ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[LDigital]

I built his Marauder Shuttle and it was absolutely superb. I knew when he threw his hat in the ring it would be something excellent.

looks great 

[Case39]

There is another MOC on Rebrickable

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-131353/Grisbee/luthen-raels-fondor-haulcraft-from-andor/#details