Some thoughts after YEARS without a castle theme

[Clone OPatra]

19 minutes ago, Itaria No Shintaku said:

No to everything. A copyright is a copyright. I won't go any further on this publicly. If you want to keep ignoring the mod requests pm me.

You seem to want to ignore the Mod requests too given that you replied to that comment. You're not a Mod.

Anyone else continue any part of this off-topic discussion and I'll lock this thread.

[MAB]

Possibly the most used non-LEGO piece for me is the BW plumbing.

This looks so much better than a primitive spear and I think it looks like what LEGO would have made if they had done a full Roman theme, maybe between gaps in Castle. I'm happy with using them. I used to used third party Roman helmets and shields too. But once LEGO did their own, I switched.

Same with LOTR. I had my own versions of characters (including some third party parts) until LEGO did theirs. Then I switched. 

[BlackGloveBricks]

Given the beauty and scale of recent sets like The Medieval Blacksmith, Castle in the Forest, and Lion Knight's Castle, I'd much rather get 1-2 high-quality Castle sets per year versus a traditional "line" that will likely deliver the following:

 

- simple, box-style castle for the "hero" knights

- some kind of wagon

- lackluster half-playset for the "villain" knights

 

It's been so beautiful to have Castle back after so many years without. So, I'm all for quality over quantity at this point. 

[jodawill]

10 minutes ago, BlackGloveBricks said:

Given the beauty and scale of recent sets like The Medieval Blacksmith, Castle in the Forest, and Lion Knight's Castle, I'd much rather get 1-2 high-quality Castle sets per year versus a traditional "line" that will likely deliver the following:

 

- simple, box-style castle for the "hero" knights

- some kind of wagon

- lackluster half-playset for the "villain" knights

 

It's been so beautiful to have Castle back after so many years without. So, I'm all for quality over quantity at this point. 

I see no reason they couldn't do quality and quantity. Occasional large sets like 10305 are nice. But I would also enjoy being able to walk into a local store and buy a little battle pack of some kind. I want to see sets that extend the larger sets in a modular way. I like the impulse purchase price point. I've bought a lot more of the yellow castle knights than I would have online because it's just fun to pick them up s couple at a time when I'm at the store.

[BlackGloveBricks]

16 minutes ago, jodawill said:

I see no reason they couldn't do quality and quantity. Occasional large sets like 10305 are nice. But I would also enjoy being able to walk into a local store and buy a little battle pack of some kind. I want to see sets that extend the larger sets in a modular way. I like the impulse purchase price point. I've bought a lot more of the yellow castle knights than I would have online because it's just fun to pick them up s couple at a time when I'm at the store.

In a perfect world, I'm with you 100%. 

But in a world where LEGO's emphasis seems to be focused on licensed themes, it's a battle for shelf space. 

When X% of the product catalog is already committed to Star Wars, Marvel, Potter, etc...there's only so much room left for evergreen themes like Castle. 

So, while I'd love quality AND quantity same as you, if I have to settle for just one and not the other, it's going to be "quality" every time.  

[MAB]

3 hours ago, BlackGloveBricks said:

But in a world where LEGO's emphasis seems to be focused on licensed themes, it's a battle for shelf space. 

When X% of the product catalog is already committed to Star Wars, Marvel, Potter, etc...there's only so much room left for evergreen themes like Castle. 

Castle isn't an evergreen theme any more. If it was, it would be on the shelves. And there would be no problem. There is plenty of room for in-house evergreen themes on the shelves, just look at City, Friends, Ninjago. 

There are more in-house sets on shelves than licensed.

[BlackGloveBricks]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

Castle isn't an evergreen theme any more. If it was, it would be on the shelves. And there would be no problem. There is plenty of room for in-house evergreen themes on the shelves, just look at City, Friends, Ninjago. 

There are more in-house sets on shelves than licensed.

That's possible. But I'd really like to see the math. 

[Sir Dano]

11 hours ago, BlackGloveBricks said:

Given the beauty and scale of recent sets like The Medieval Blacksmith, Castle in the Forest, and Lion Knight's Castle, I'd much rather get 1-2 high-quality Castle sets per year versus a traditional "line" that will likely deliver the following:

 

- simple, box-style castle for the "hero" knights

- some kind of wagon

- lackluster half-playset for the "villain" knights

 

It's been so beautiful to have Castle back after so many years without. So, I'm all for quality over quantity at this point. 

I mostly agree but I'd still like to see a few small army building sets at the same time.

[SirBlake]

34 minutes ago, Sir Dano said:

I mostly agree but I'd still like to see a few small army building sets at the same time.

That’s where I’m at. 

[MAB]

11 hours ago, BlackGloveBricks said:

That's possible. But I'd really like to see the math. 

I posted it a while ago, it'll be on another thread. While there are more licensed themes than in-house, licensed themes tend to be much smaller. You can add them up each year from data on sites like brickset.

[BlackGloveBricks]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

I posted it a while ago, it'll be on another thread. While there are more licensed themes than in-house, licensed themes tend to be much smaller. You can add them up each year from data on sites like brickset.

Yeah. I'd really like to see those numbers. Because, at a glance, it doesn't make sense given the price point of UCS sets, etc... 

[fhomess]

I love 10305 but it's hard to justify a $400 set.

[MAB]

22 hours ago, BlackGloveBricks said:

Yeah. I'd really like to see those numbers. Because, at a glance, it doesn't make sense given the price point of UCS sets, etc... 

The numbers are in that thread. The number of licensed vs unlicensed sets is pretty much equal, even though the number of licensed themes is larger. Given the huge variety in product types too these days, it is difficult to get exact numbers. 

City, Friends and Ninjago are huge themes in terms of set numbers these days, way bigger than Town was back when the classic themes were also regularly on shelves.

 

[Peppermint_M]

I think it would really help if we had a true return of Service Packs. The Xtra bags were getting there but I think those are through? 

If you could purchase a pack of knights like back in the day, we are well covered for bricks. Maybe a doors and windows set, something with horses and other animals...

Enough to keep it ticking over.

[MAB]

55 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

I think it would really help if we had a true return of Service Packs. The Xtra bags were getting there but I think those are through? 

If you could purchase a pack of knights like back in the day, we are well covered for bricks. Maybe a doors and windows set, something with horses and other animals...

Enough to keep it ticking over.

It would be interesting if they did a Castle Xtra type pack - maybe a few different helmets, some weapons, some shields, the arched windows and the bars that fit them, and then a handful of mixed grey and natural bricks. Something like the Witch King Battle set minus the figures, but with a few accessories instead. I bought a load of that set when cheap for the parts (and to sell off the figures)

 

Although now LEGO has changed so much from the 80s/90s and even 2000-10. I'd worry how people (adults) would react if they did the old style pocket-money Castle sets again, with one minifigure and a few parts. If they did something like this at maybe £5 / $5 each as polybags (or £8 / $8 with a horse) or like the City starter boxes with two minifigures plus parts

I can just imagine an adult going into a store and clearing the shelves of the lot to army build (and to show the lot off on instagram or youtube) whereas in the past that would not have happened. It could be just as frustrating as putting soldier parts into BAM and one person clearing the lot out.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by MAB

[SirBlake]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

It would be interesting if they did a Castle Xtra type pack - maybe a few different helmets, some weapons, some shields, the arched windows and the bars that fit them, and then a handful of mixed grey and natural bricks. Something like the Witch King Battle set minus the figures, but with a few accessories instead. I bought a load of that set when cheap for the parts (and to sell off the figures)

Although now LEGO has changed so much from the 80s/90s and even 2000-10. I'd worry how people (adults) would react if they did the old style pocket-money Castle sets again, with one minifigure and a few parts. If they did something like this at maybe £5 / $5 each as polybags (or £8 / $8 with a horse) or like the City starter boxes with two minifigures plus parts

I can just imagine an adult going into a store and clearing the shelves of the lot to army build (and to show the lot off on instagram or youtube) whereas in the past that would not have happened. It could be just as frustrating as putting soldier parts into BAM and one person clearing the lot out.

 

 

I think a wide release would fix the BAM frustration. Having to get to a Lego retail store with the perfect timing is frustrating, but from my personal experience, I have never had difficulty finding a wide release item I wanted. If you think it's tough collecting Lego at retail, try Hasbro action figures. THAT is frustration incarnate, and part of the reason I left that hobby behind and doubled down on Lego. Comparatively, Lego is MUCH easier to get what you want.

[MAB]

17 hours ago, SirBlake said:

I think a wide release would fix the BAM frustration. Having to get to a Lego retail store with the perfect timing is frustrating, but from my personal experience, I have never had difficulty finding a wide release item I wanted. If you think it's tough collecting Lego at retail, try Hasbro action figures. THAT is frustration incarnate, and part of the reason I left that hobby behind and doubled down on Lego. Comparatively, Lego is MUCH easier to get what you want.

It would depend on whether they produced enough and released loads of stock in one go, as it calms down the initial panic buying from resellers that fuels resellers to keep clearing shelves. Benny's Space Squad (which is a similar style army builder set) for example sold out quickly when it first started appearing in a few places but within a few weeks they had plenty of stock to distribute and it was easy to find everywhere throughout the shelf life. And even now is barely worth much more than RRP. I think they handled that one well. Resellers are soon put off buying up everything if everything keeps getting replenished and they cannot quick flip for a profit. Whereas if they release a little and often (like Black Falcon parts through online PAB), there is the continual cycle of in-stock to out-of-stock, which leads to people panic buying to get what they want from resellers at high prices, which fuels the reseller purchases. They also screwed up the release of the 9574 "Green Ninja" in the run up to Christmas 2012. He was hyped up for months then sets were released in batches and every batch was getting bought up and quick flipped and loads of parents complained about secondary market prices. That lead to the first big crack down on resellers that I remember.

 

[Triceron]

I honestly think army builder sets would be just as frustrating to hunt down as BAM torsos in their store.  There's plenty of niche small sets that I try to keep my eyes open to, and only ever manage to find them in neighbouring cities.

Pick A Brick seems to be the better alternative so long as they manage to stay in stock.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Triceron

[SirBlake]

 

2 hours ago, Triceron said:

Pick A Brick seems to be the better alternative so long as they manage to stay in stock.

Except that they never stay in stock. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by SirBlake

[TeriXeri]

Regular Sets (like Benny's was sold a lot)  from webshops ship within only a few days (1-3 days from order to delivery is almost standard here on most shops) , wheras PAB can take like 2 weeks+

BAM also requires specific stores to happen to be nearby, not all countries have them, and then the larger countries still have distance issues.

Until the Online BAM expands at least, but that'll still run into probably 1-2 week+ time to ship etc. 

Online BAM doesn't say it's in Beta anymore but the parts list hasn't expanded yet. (I'm even fine if online BAM gets the parts 1 year or so after stores as they said)

LEGO.com exclusive Blister packs aren't preferable either, as they are usually overpriced (see recent City version of bike charge station for example)

Of course PAB/BAM have an advantage of getting the exact minifig parts you want, so the extra time makes sense considering it's hand picked (I assume on the online orders).

Edited November 11, 2022 by TeriXeri

[MAB]

7 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Online BAM doesn't say it's in Beta anymore but the parts list hasn't expanded yet. (I'm even fine if online BAM gets the parts 1 year or so after stores as they said)

 

The online BAM has been a complete disappointment.  For us (UK) the initial selection was OK but the parts selection actually shrunk and pieces never replaced. Unless they start putting in the instore parts, I cannot see it being of much use.

[Itaria No Shintaku]

Benny's Space Squad was sold initially for €10 (basically, in order to understand for the ones not acquainted with €, think that nowadays a star wars battlepack with snowtroopers and a clone costs double that price).

Then, it went at 50%: just 5€.

Then, it went at 75%: just 2,5€.

So in Italy, it costed like 5 bananas. Or a bottle of Coca Cola.

With the price you spend for a movie at the cinema, you could have got 4 of that set.
 

This shows undeniably that it was one of their worst selling sets ever.

I am very sad for that, I bought 20x of that set. But that's not about me. Something about that failed. 

[Ravelino]

Glad to see this thread back on-topic.

We have to bear in mind that global issues and the need to keep pushing new products affect TLG’s moving space when it comes to distributing much wanted items. Also the fact they’re running a couple years ahead of us consumers doesn’t help. I think if given the chance they’d print a couple billion more BAM figs along with the recent figs from the big castle.

Unlike aforementioned space squad (which honestly surprised me a little) I feel they’d run out in a couple days if they were a wide release, especially when keeping an eye on the online PAB.

Concerning the BAM knights I think the biggest problem here could be the company’s conflicting rules with stores’ targets. Here in the Netherlands they kept a strict limit with a little leeway but I heard from several managers blocking customers from buying more than reasonable numbers to keep stock. Some customers even went as far as to dress up for the part and return multiple times with family member’s VIP passes before they were eventually found out. But I have also read about several cases (abroad) where they didn’t even blink when someone came to the registers with a bag full of knights/wizards/whatever.
 

Sure you can’t guess the reasoning and maybe they’ll even give them away for free when they’re done with them( highly doubt it) but a line has to be drawn these days.

TLDR it is what it is, I hope they wise up and give us a couple themes that’re at least actually close to Castle and Pirates unlike Nexo Knights and an oceanic Ninjago wave. Easy money in pocket if you’d ask me.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Ravelino

[MAB]

2 hours ago, Itaria No Shintaku said:

This shows undeniably that it was one of their worst selling sets ever.

Or, that they thought there was a lot of demand for Classic Space army builders and so ended up overproducing this set. A store near me had them at 20% off within a week of release. I bought 20 sets and the yellow and pink figures sold really quickly, the Benny figs sold but slowly and I was keeping the white ones. I also bought another 10 sets much later at 50% off (the lowest I saw it) to part out, and the figures were barely moving then. I kept some sealed, and they still haven't sold. I think the demand was there, but the supply was too much. I don't think it was necessarily bad selling, just overproduced.

But if it was a bad seller that could have a consequence for Castle too. They made a battle pack style set packed full of nostalgic Classic (THEME) figures that AFOLs say they are desperate for, and LEGO found out the demand they thought was there was not there after all. Will they see battle packs for Classic Castle any different to battle packs for Classic Space and decide not to do a Castle battle pack. It could also happen at a store level, when the toy manager remembers that a small set with old fashioned style figures did not sell well and they decide not to go for the next range with a small set with old fashioned type figures in.

2 hours ago, Ravelino said:

Unlike aforementioned space squad (which honestly surprised me a little) I feel they’d run out in a couple days if they were a wide release, especially when keeping an eye on the online PAB.

The Space Squad set did sell out quickly (at least near me). Initial stocks seemed to sell well. But then it came back into stock and remained on shelves for ages indicating over-supply. It could have had low demand, or it could have had high demand but very high supply. I imagine a Castle pack would go the same way unless they decided to cut the supply to cater for the probably lower than expected demand.

[Itaria No Shintaku]

8 hours ago, MAB said:

Or, that they thought there was a lot of demand for Classic Space army builders and so ended up overproducing this set. A store near me had them at 20% off within a week of release. I bought 20 sets and the yellow and pink figures sold really quickly, the Benny figs sold but slowly and I was keeping the white ones. I also bought another 10 sets much later at 50% off (the lowest I saw it) to part out, and the figures were barely moving then. I kept some sealed, and they still haven't sold. I think the demand was there, but the supply was too much. I don't think it was necessarily bad selling, just overproduced.

I am sorry but I totally disagree with you.

The nostalgic AFOLs emptied the shelves everywhere, then when the nostalgic AFOLs were gone, the kids did not want that set.

That set was aimed at kids, not at AFOLs. It had a nice nod for nostalgic AFOLs, but that was not the theme the average non nostalgic AFOL would buy. In fact, AFOLs tend to buy more stuff like big sets (Titanic, Tour Eiffel and so on) than these ones for my experience.

TLM2 was a kid-oriented theme. And it had the production rate that any $10 city set has. But kids preferred a $10 city set than that one. Though it had 4 minifigures and 1 robot.

Probably they are not fascinated by old style astronauts if they can have, let me say, a spinjitzu with a nice looking fantasy ninja coming for the same price.

I have no clues that this set was overproduced. I'd rather think that it had the same production numbers of any $10 set and that was disliked by general audience.