[TC23] GBC Train Vertical Ball Lift Mark 2 Update.

[doug72]

A high capacity ball lift activated by and sycronised by the GBC Train car. - Mark 2 Version improved.

Tested  many times and proved to be very reliable without balls spilling.

Scroll Down  FOR DETAILS OF THE MK 2 VERSION WITH NEW IMAGES.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by doug72
Original version removed and replace by new MK 2 version.

[Berthil]

Good start! I assume this system will be based on the Akiyuki train? This is no problem as basically the train is the drive in this system and the mechanical logic is in the module(s).

[doug72]

1 hour ago, Berthil said:

Good start! I assume this system will be based on the Akiyuki train? This is no problem as basically the train is the drive in this system and the mechanical logic is in the module(s).

Yes it will be using the Akiyuki train to drive the lift.

For testing the lift I will use a M motor.

[doug72]

Stage 2:- build the lift platform to hold minimum 30 balls.

It took a while to build the lift platform and prevent it from jamming in the guide rails on both lift towers.

Originally I used flip flop beams but these keep snagging on the 7 x 5 frames edges due to the raised lip around some pin holes.

See earlier post about this problem. I come up with solution using normal lego parts which works Well.

 IMG_8843

Lift platform Underside framing. 

One 7 x 11 frame,    Two 6 x 8 studded frames.

 IMG_8840

Lift arms and sloping plate added.
 IMG_8842

Edited September 10, 2022 by doug72
Progress update

[doug72]

Stage 3:- Lift Towers.

These were built using 5 x 7 frames with guide beams and rollers

Vertical beam were added on each 5 x 7 frame to guide the ball transfer platform.

The two sides of the Lift Tower had to be well braced.

At the top of each tower a worm drive gear box were added. this was driven by an M motor & battery box via a 2 way switch.

For testing only one had a worm gear fitted for testing the lift.

 IMG_8853

 IMG_8854

An M motor was temporarily used to test & set the lengths for the lift arms so that balls loaded OK from the In box & discharge OK into the train Hopper.

.
Some balls tended to “hang” up on the ball transfer platform. after a long search of my spares.I found a 6 x 8 10% slope p/n 4515 which  now ensures all balls roll out freely.

 IMG_8855

The two yellow worm drive gear boxes will be removed & replaced by two 60T turntables to drive the lift arms up and down.

These will be driven by the Train Reverser unit when the train car docks.

Z60 Turntables.
These will replace the two yellow worm drive gear boxes and be driven by the train reverser.  The Ball Lift will only run when train is docked and stop as soon as train departs with 30 balls. Hopefully it will be easy to synchronise this !!!!!

 IMG_8857

 IMG_8856

Next Stage 4:-  building the lift mechanism.

Edited September 13, 2022 by doug72

[Frequenzberater]

Looks great so far. Hope to see it in action soon :) 

[doug72]

On 9/13/2022 at 7:44 PM, Frequenzberater said:

Looks great so far. Hope to see it in action soon :) 

Thanks for your comments.
I am Having problems with the Z60 turntable gearing.

The  1L worm gear has poor engagement with the teeth on the 60 T gear ring, tried adding extra supports but skipping of the worm gear still occurs when lifting the balls

Veiw of Z60 T/T showing extra bracing to the worm drive axle.

 IMG_8858

 

Z60 Turn Tables rejected due to worm drive skipping.

Z56 T/T - after further changes I am now able to line up the loading & discharge levels.

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by doug72
Text change & image removed

[doug72]

Update :-

The physical build is complete. Stronger frame added to prevent the two towers from moving.

The two Z56 Turntables are connected by a chain of gears to ensure they both rotate together in sync.

At loading point in box all 30 balls roll out onto lift OK.

The discharge point is slightly higher but all balls roll out into train Car hopper with none spilling.

System  run on test &  M Motor runs very smoothly.

Drive:- I had hoped to use an out from the train reverser to run  the lift, but even with new batteries in the Train car there was not enough power to run the lift and would have needed several 90 deg turns to replace the M motor.

I have used this solution in the past. As the train enters the reverser & docks it activates a PF switch (early version) which is much freer in operation than the later version.

As train leaves the the reverser a counter weight moves the PF switch to turn off the drive.

Next install train switch and try and synchronise  the train reverser with the lift cycle.

Images:-

 IMG_8859

 IMG_8860

Now installed the power to drive the module, As train docks power is turned on, Speed of the module is set using a PF Controller.

When train departs the counterweight cut power to the M motor.

 IMG_886

Close up of PF Switch.

 IMG_8863

The system is a bit temperamental, if the counterweight doesn’t drop.

This module could be stand alone in series with other modules or set up to recycle balls back to the in box.

Hardest task next - make a video !!

Edited September 16, 2022 by doug72

[doug72]

==================================================

Decided to try again running the lift module powered by a Train Car when on the reverser.

The Train car engages with the two 24T gears to drive both the reverser unit and the a drive to the two Z56 Turn Tables which raise & lower the lift.

After a few changes to the gearing the lift can do a full cycle in less than 60 secs while carrying 30 balls per trip cycle.

Gives same speed as when used a M motor.

Now need to alter the trip timing on the reverser to try &  synchronise it with the lift.if possible.

As soon as train car departs the lift stops

General View:-

 GBC 2

View of drive line & gearing from train reverser to Lift Tower Turntables.

 GBC 1

Edited September 17, 2022 by doug72

[Heppu]

Looking forward to seeing a video of this. Sometimes just looking at pictures it's hard to grasp the full mechanism .

Did you ever consider replacing the chain of gears at the top to bewel gear connections to reduce the amount of gears needed?

[doug72]

2 hours ago, Heppu said:

Looking forward to seeing a video of this. Sometimes just looking at pictures it's hard to grasp the full mechanism .

Did you ever consider replacing the chain of gears at the top to bewel gear connections to reduce the amount of gears needed?

Thanks for your comments, I will be posting a video soon.

Re “Chain of Gears”

Chose this method as the beam also provides support to the upper structure to prevent it from spreading.

Also has to be as built this way to prevent the lift arms from hitting the beam or gears. Also very easy to synchronise the two turntables.

All I need to do is remove one gear and then rotate one turntable to line up opposite the other so that the lift arms are always in  alignment with each other.

Using small 12T bevel gears with right angle gear cases would be flimsy and more awkward when aligning the Turntables.

[doug72]

Heppu,

I have made mock up of your suggestion and will fit it tomorrow and test it.

Running short of 24T gears !

[doug72]

YouTube Video made  

 

Next step make entry topic

Edited September 18, 2022 by doug72

[doug72]

Heppu,

Now removed the chain of gears and installed a new version with two angle gear casings. No problem aligning the two Turntables to each other and now tested OK with 30 balls per trip 7 x 24 gears & 2 x 20T gears now back in spares parts  drawers.

 IMG_8885

Edited September 18, 2022 by doug72

[Heppu]

Cool system and thanks for the video! Explains the mechanism better for sure. Impressive it can take so many balls at once!

And you seem to be the first one to showcase a functioning module. I'm having so little time to work on my entry to iron out it's kinks, but hope to get something that works before the end.

Also, glad that the angled gears approach worked. Personally I like to look of the model more like this. From the video it seems to work without issues using all the gears too and you gave good reasons to use them instead so use whatever is best for you.

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Heppu
removed part about reliability after rewatching the video

[doug72]

On 9/18/2022 at 8:36 PM, Heppu said:

Cool system and thanks for the video! Explains the mechanism better for sure. Impressive it can take so many balls at once!

 

The lift can carry up to  max. 36 balls per lift cycle.

I may enter my GBC module as a stand alone with balls recycling either back to in box or forward onto a the next in box. Also could be used as a corner module with a 90 deg left turn.

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by doug72
Up Date.

[doug72]

Lift now re-configured to recirculate balls back to the in box.

Took a lot of time to get a sturdy ball ramp able to allow all balls the roll down into the in box without any hanging up or escaping.

An XL motor installed along with a change over switch. Balls re- circulate each trip cycle in approx 35 secs.

IMG

 IMG_8891

 IMG_8892

Next step:- make a video.

======================================================================

Now exploring how to use a GBC Train Car to power the lift and transfer balls to the next in box, using a
 Self “Unloading GBC Train Cart” so it can load up at the lift tower & then transfer and unload into the next inbox.

 IMG_8894

 IMG_8895

Edited September 27, 2022 by doug72

[doug72]

GBC Vertical Ball Lift using EV3 Control.

Proved very hard to control the timing unless i used it in re-circulating mode and impossible if used for loading a train car.

I have now tried using an EV3 unit to power & control the ball lift which has proved successful.

Overall drive for the ball lift is 56/1 using the 56T turntables. Lift Drive uses a Medium Motor (A) set to 56 revolutions.

The lift stops at same place each time. Balls are loaded when the lift arms are at 6 o-clock. and discharged balls when the lift arms are at 12 o’clock
And the Medium Motor (A) stops. Tested and lift stops at same place each trip cycle @ 12 o-clock.

GBC Train reverser :-

Another medium motor “C”is used to drive the reverser trip arm and restart the now loaded GBC train to travel to the unloading point at the next in box, once unloaded a standard train reverser is used to return the empty train car back to the ball lift

The lift cycle is re-started when the touch sensor (4) is activated by the arriving empty train car.

At the same time the trip beam on the train car hits a cam that pushes the trip beam over just enough to stop the train motor

I intend to use a Self Unloading Train Car which able to carry 30 balls each trip and tip them into the next  in-box.

Hopefully I can fit everything onto one large 48 x 48 studs base plate.

Next step make a video and make my entry topic.

Photo of present layout.

The yellow return ramps will be removed and replaced by a train reverser with train car under the discharge point at 12 0-clock.

 IMG_8903

Edited October 12, 2022 by doug72

[doug72]

GBC Train Ball Lift:- update.

The Self unloading train car drops 30 balls into the next modules inbox which is fitted with a retaining gate to hold the balls back.

The next GBC module would then open the gate to release 30 balls.
 If the the  lift running in a stand lone mode, the gate is opend by hand to collect & return the balls back the lift in box.

Photo of the build showing overall view.

 GBCTrain 

Now to make a video of it in action.

Edited October 21, 2022 by doug72

[doug72]

I have now extended the train track to three lengths.
Tested and can transfer two batches of 30 balls in under 60 seconds to the out box.
Self Unloading train cart modified to prevent any balls escaping.

Edited October 24, 2022 by doug72

[doug72]

Build Complete and video made at last !

Fresh batteries installed in the EV3 unit.

Train Track extended to 3 lengths. 
Time to load and unload two 30 ball batches = 53 seconds. 
Time to make my Contest entry.

Video link:- https://youtu.be/OqLku5LJnE0

[TC23]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by doug72

[doug72]

GBC Train Reverser can now be synchronised with a vertical ball lift.

Now devised a way to synchronise a train reverser with the lift tower by using 56T Turntables. see image.

A standard train reverser was modified by fitting a 56T turntable with a single striker arm.

The turntable is rotated using a 2L worm gear to give 56/1 ratio & driven by the train car.

 IMG_8985 

The train car also drives to the lift tower 56T turntable and driven using a 2L worm gear to give 56/1 ratio. to stay in sync with the train car departing.

Tested with a 11 lift arm with a 30 ball load OK. The GBC train car uses  a L motor which has more power

The train car is able to drive both the reverser & the ball lift OK and to carry 30 balls per trip cycle,

Now proved it is possible to drive & synchronise with the ball lift. And stay in sync with the train car departing.

Lift Tower:-

Only one side of the tower built for testing purposes:-

 

Next step is to complete the tower with two upright frames, a ball carriage and a GBC in ball inbox.

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by doug72

[doug72]

Progress update: 
GBC Train Reverser now synchronised with the vertical ball lift.

The lift mechanism is the same as the EV3 version but the train car now drives both the ball lift which

is able to carry 30 balls & also drive the lift train reverser.

The ball in box is a standared GBC with 10L entry height.

A lifting ball gate was installed to release the balls as the lift reaches its lowest point.

Lift with 30 balls rises and roll out into the train car hopper the when lift at its highest point. 
The Lift Train Reverser restarts the train and at same time the lift drive stops as the train departs. 

  IMG_8998

 

  IMG_8996

How ?      Solution:- use three Z56 Turntables

A standard train reverser was modified by fitting a 56T turntable with a single striker arm. see image.
Both lift towers have worm drive 56T turntables.

  IMG_8997

 IMG_8985

The turntable is rotated using a 2L worm gear to give 56/1 ratio driven by the train car.

The train car when it docks also drives to the two lift tower 56T turntables which are driven using a 2L worm gear to give 56/1 ratio.

Result:- Module stays in sync with the train car arriving & departing.

Tested with a 11L lift arms with a 30 ball load OK. Had some issues with the train car 8T gears skipping as lift neared the top.

Found the train car axles had worn. Replaced Tried with another train car and now OK. The GBC train car uses  a L motor which has more power

The hardest task was arranging the trip arm linkage to let  the balls roll out of the input box. Now tested and very reliable.

Now proved it is possible to drive & synchronise with the ball lift. staying in sync with the train car departing.

Self Unloading Train Car Hopper

  IMG_8995

The normal ball carrier was removed and replaced by a bespoke ball hopper that self unloads as it docks on the train reverser.

 

Video ?

Edited January 3, 2023 by doug72