[MOC] Union Pacific Big Boy 4014, free building instructions

[Berthil]

My go at the well known Union Pacific Big Boy in 100% LEGO and running on standard LEGO tracks. A combination I have not seen anywhere. Powered by LEGO PoweredUp with two motors controlled by Pybricks (without device). The model is based on 8 year old free instructions by Jayhurst and the Jie Star model but over 50% of parts are different. Video, link to images and link to the free building instructions on Rebrickable below. Enjoy!

 

The City hub can be operated from the outside, the status LED is visible and the hub can be removed for battery change easily.

Free building instructions and parts list on Rebrickable:
https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-117884/Berthil/union-pacific-big-boy-4014/

[Feuer Zug]

Excellent 4000 class 4-8-8-4. Almost everything looks perfect. I would use a Fez piece for the bell, but that's about all I would do. Does having the battery box up in the front of the boiler/smokebox work well with the weight on wheels?

[Berthil]

47 minutes ago, Feuer Zug said:

Excellent 4000 class 4-8-8-4. Almost everything looks perfect. I would use a Fez piece for the bell, but that's about all I would do. Does having the battery box up in the front of the boiler/smokebox work well with the weight on wheels?

Thanks! The Fez is a good idea, might switch to that. The hub in the front works well, the weight seems well distributed over the drive train. However, the loc needs power to get started and has a bit of trouble running slow. I need to check why. Because of this I am planning to add a 'diesel' loc to help the Big Boy with this. Should be easy to program in Pybricks to let both Locs work together with one remote.

Does anyone know wat Diesel Loc is used in this video and what are the two yellow carriages in between? Thanks.

 

[Murdoch17]

@Berthil: The engine pulls two identical water tanks in addition to it's tender, since water towers are long gone. They fill up when they can and try not to use too much up in-between stops... they have to get local fire trucks / hydrants to refill them usually, and then add certain chemicals to soften it / remove impurities. Granted, they can't refill both yellow tanks at the same stop - some towns can't handle that much water loss at once!

Don't know about the diesel... that's not my area / era of expertise! 

[Sven J]

41 minutes ago, Berthil said:

Does anyone know wat Diesel Loc is used in this video

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_SD70_series#SD70M_(1992-2004)

The "yellow carriages in between" are additional tenders, as @Murdoch17 explained.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Sven J

[Berthil]

Thanks both! Good to know it's the SD70, I think I found a good starting point to update, motorize, build it and add to the Big Boy including the two water tanks. Might take a while and I will try to add more layout in the next video when finished :)

 

[Toxic43]

2 hours ago, Berthil said:

However, the loc needs power to get started and has a bit of trouble running slow.

 

I had this same problem recently with the PU WeDo Medium motor as well. I found that there is basically no starting torque until you get to speed step 4 or 5. It does start with a bit of a jerk at 5, but maybe you could lower it to 3 if you have two motors working together. I haven't looked at the instructions yet as I'm at work, but are they coupled together to a common input or are they running separately on each set of driving wheels?

If they are coupled maybe you'd get away with speed step 3, but if separate and with that much weight, I'd suggest speed step 5 to get enough torque. 

Frustrating, as you do lose a lot of the fine control and speed steps are reduced, but it is the only way I know you can make these work properly. In the App Controlled Batmobile they're used it, they are bang on/off at 100% torque/power, which is how they work so well there. Anything less than 100% is not optimal I have found. The alternative motor to use would be the PU Medium Linear Motor 88008-1, which as far as I know has a reduced operating RPM, but higher torque. It's about 1 plate taller than the WeDo Medium motor but wouldn't be too hard to integrate I'd imagine. I used it geared 1:1 in my small PF shunter MOC and the torque is incredible. You could probably gear it up some for a balance of starting torque and top end speed as well.

Awesome design by the way. This one is already wishlisted on Bricklink. After my other 4  Train related MOCS are fulfilled, I'll begin this one!

[Berthil]

@Toxic43 thanks for the explanation, very helpful and sounds plausible. The motors are not coupled and drive one drive train of eight wheels each. There is almost no room to couple but I will have a look if I can connect with gears.

With your advice in mind, I will try and use a PU L motor for the SD70 to have more torque when aiding the Big Boy in slow speeds.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Berthil
typos

[Toxic43]

@Berthil No worries. Happy to help. I thought my motors were broken when I first tried them using PyBricks at speed step one and they just stalled. Starting them up halfway through their range is not ideal, but then again, I don't think Lego had trains in mind when they designed them!

[Shiva]

Berthil, another nice build from you :)

[samsz_3]

Wow this looks great! And thanks for the instructions. Presuming it's pure LEGO, will it go around R40 curves?

[Berthil]

23 minutes ago, samsz_3 said:

Wow this looks great! And thanks for the instructions. Presuming it's pure LEGO, will it go around R40 curves?

As stated it is 100% LEGO and runs on all standard LEGO tracks including R40 as visible in the Youtube video.

[Toastie]

On 7/22/2022 at 3:02 PM, Berthil said:

However, the loc needs power to get started and has a bit of trouble running slow. I need to check why. Because of this I am planning to add a 'diesel' loc to help the Big Boy with this. Should be easy to program in Pybricks to let both Locs work together with one remote.

This is a wonderful model - and the free instructions are also just incredible. Thank you very much for sharing. I shall download the instructions just to admire them.

Now, with regard to the power issue: You are using PUp, i.e. the City Hub (#88009) along with two "WeDo medium" motors (#21980), is that correct? If so, then you are using motors that don't have a built-in rotation sensor, and all you can do is "set power" in the 7 steps you mention. I assume you are using the PUp remote (#88010) to "set power" on the motors, is that correct? Or do you use the PU App on a smart device?

Let's assume 88009 + 2x 21980 + 88010: You will have to do a hardware solution, i.e., get more torque for the train - either by using more powerful motors (PUp L) and or another loco pushing it.

Now, I would not do that. Instead, I would go for two PUp motors with built-in rotation sensors; these would be the PUp medium motor (#88008) or the PUp L motor (#88013). Then use the PUp app to control the motors using the "set speed" (not "set power") programming blocks. What this does, is: You set speed to 5%. The hub then rapidly increases power to the motor to maintain that very speed, may even go to 100% power. When the loco begins to move (has overcome friction forces) it will certainly lower power, but you won't notice that, as it does that automatically. You can also select acceleration/deceleration profiles. And, if you don't want to use the app as a controlling device, you can pair the PUp remote and the PUp hub with the PUp app. You need to write a little program that translates pressing the remote buttons into increase or decrease speed - i.e. by 5% per +/- button press. 

It really works great. Here is an example of a rather heavy loco moving at constant speed using one PUp L motor.

All the best and thank you very much again!

Thorsten

P.S.: Just downloaded your instructions ... I am speechless. This is so nice. Also saw the #21980 motors, so I guess all the above should work ...

Edited July 26, 2022 by Toastie

[Berthil]

@Toastie thank you for your feedback! I'm using Pybricks (without device) and am just setting the power from 1 to 100% in either 10 or 5 steps.

I've used the medium and large PU motors in my Load Zone project with advanced programming through Pybricks where the last reply is yours :)

I can try with the medium motors, this might solve the torque problem anyway. Also Pybricks has a nice routine available to keep the speed of a train constant under different load as you describe.

But I actually like the idea of adding a diesel to aid the Big Boy as in the video of the real thing. I know the real Big Boy is strong enough to do everything by itself and the diesel was only added to aid in braking (to avoid too much wear) and to save on water and coal as not every town where it stops has the needed amount of water and coal available. It would be a nice setup to experiment with together with Pybricks programming. If all fails I will drop in one or two medium motors.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Berthil
typos

[Toastie]

Ahh - Merde, I missed that: PyBricks. Oh man, all that smart talk ... sorry for that.

Yes, the idea with the SD pushing is really nice. I also love that video. Have seen it before because it was posted before here or elsewhere (that was not you, or were you? I don't want to sound like an idiot again). What caught my attention was the sanding bit. Never ever heard of it. NO(!) Thermodynamics textbook is mentioning that .

Is the SD actually pushing in the video or just in neutral, should something "happen"? I guess the former, she is simply pulling it as if there were no SD.

Well, will say it again: A beautiful model, a wonderful instruction. I am really tempted, but Ms. Toastie will not be amused, that's for sure

Best wishes,
Thorsten

[zephyr1934]

On 7/26/2022 at 5:58 PM, Berthil said:

But I actually like the idea of adding a diesel to aid the Big Boy as in the video of the real thing. I know the real Big Boy is strong enough to do everything by itself and the diesel was only added to aid in braking (to avoid too much wear) and to save on water and coal as not every town where it stops has the needed amount of water and coal available. It would be a nice setup to experiment with together with Pybricks programming. If all fails I will drop in one or two medium motors.

Modeling the modern steam rather than historic steam. I think the biggest reason mainline steam in the US has a diesel is simply to ensure the mainline will never be blocked by a disabled steam engine. The margins are so thin that even a 1 hr blockage can be an immense cost to the railroad. Still, it would be nice to have the ability to do away with the diesel when you wanted to. For me at least I would prefer an unpowered diesel model, or at least the steam be powerful enough that it did not need the diesel. But I'm more a fan of historic steam, in any event, there's no wrong way to do it.

The model is looking good regardless.

[BillytheKid]

I just saw this post yesterday and read it quickly. I've just seen the buildinginstruction and I'm impressed. Actually simple, but very effective. I'm going to build this one. Just ordered the stickers .

So PandaCity of Bricks has ordered one Big Boy and now the taxes had to be raised to buy for the parts for building this very big beast of steel at wheels. Even the Emerald Night will be a shorty compared with the Big Boy.

[Berthil]

@BillytheKid Impressive train layout on PandaCity of Bricks, just subscribed to your Youtube channel and looking forward to see the Big Boy running there :) 

[BillytheKid]

@Berthil, first build the library from brickative. Then we start with the Big Boy. If it runs good at 12v track, I convert the loc maybe so it can run at 12v power. I guess the train is too big and too long .

[ivanlan9]

UP 4015 is an SD70M, built in June of 2000. Athearn makes an HO model of this engine; it's kind of important to make sure you're modeling the correct prototype, as the SD70 series is long and varied:  the radiator grills at the rear of the loco are diagnostic.  The latest is the SD70ACe-T4, which has very wide and flaring radiators, and meets T4 emission standards.  The SD70M was built from 1992-2004.

I think the number of all SD70 variations is around 5700 and still growing, although sales of new locos have dropped dramatically since around 2015 or so, enough that GM sold off EMD to Caterpillar, and GE sold its loco business to Wabtec. Both make only a few engines a year, and most of those are export.  Here in Salt Lake City, I drive by the UP yard and I can see roughly a 2km length of stored SD70s that UP draws upon instead of buying new ones.  This is all due to PSR, "Precision Scheduled Railroading," a railroad management system that management loves and railroaders hate.  It cuts costs to the bone while hurting people. Be glad it doesn't seem to have reached Europe yet. ...

[Toastie]

19 minutes ago, ivanlan9 said:

Be glad it doesn't seem to have reached Europe yet. ...

Hi Ivan,
I am not sure - I believe it has. It's a long, long story - and I am - well was - a public train transportation maniac. For any short trips < 20 km I do my eBike now. Any long trips with +3 hours of buffer are by train; mostly I do the trip the day before and then spend a nice night at some cheap bar before going in the next day. If I need to be there "on time", i.e., +1 hour max, I take the car. Along with Google, I almost always make it. Why is that? In Germany, it was certainly different, decades ago. But then came the idea of making public transportation, including of course hauling goods, "profitable". Capitalize on it. In the sense of stocks and exchange. And the best way of getting there is: No investments into the infrastructure, and cutting labor costs - which is easily done on an Excel spreadsheet, no question!

And then oxidation hits hard, a strong winter, naa forget it, a very hot summer hits hard, and then Covid hits hard, and all of a sudden, they realize that the salary of folks doing all the work is not attractive anymore, they realize it is actually hard work, and so on and so forth.

The super smart folks then find out, that Excel does not have a plugin for oxidation, summer, Covid, relative salary numbers, hard work ... it only adds up numbers. Always a little late, these people.

And then everybody gets nervous. As they are now. Here in Europe - or more precisely in Germany. They actually begin to maintain and extend the infrastructure! Guess what that means for the regular totally fired up traffic schedule - as we all want to go on the trains, to save the world, but we want to be there fast and furious. 

Oh, well. We did not see that one coming. Of course not, how on Earth should we? We're humans. Prone to epic failure

Best wishes,
Thorsten

[GoHabsGo]

The MOC is simply incredible !

Much better than the new Hogwarts Express !

[garmsey]

I really like this MOC.  Thank you for providing the instructions.  Hopefully I will be able to build it someday.

[BillytheKid]

Only build the frame sofar, waiting for the parts to continu. Even now this train is a beast compared woth other trains . I wonder how it looks when build....... .

[BillytheKid]

@Berthil, Train is getting build up. I used same motors you used in your building instruction. When using the Lego-controller the motors can only run at 1 speed and only when keep pressing the buttons. I tried the app on mine phone, nothing works. I need some help with this. Running train at different speeds is better and more fun.