LEGO Dungeons & Dragons - one step closer?

[Alexandrina]

16 hours ago, zoth33 said:

Are you saying the WOT show was fantastic or the books?  I like the books and the story is good.  I would take WOT sets absolutely even if based off of the show but I doubt we will get them.  As for your point with D&D that goes for any form of game or art,  If we both read the WOT we will both get something different from the stories or if we both look at a piece of art we will both have different views of what it is.  everyone will not have the same experience with lego sets either so I'm not getting what you are trying to say.  We each see things differently and that's the great thing with Lego you can make it whatever you want.  

I was saying that the show is brilliant (I'd argue it outshone Game of Thrones at its peak and even at its lowest ebb was comfortably the best drama series since the first season of Broadchurch) but that's my opinion and neither here nor there.

I really don't get how you're not understanding my other point, though. Yes, you might get different things out of a book or series to me - but there are still things you can make sets out of, as with existing licenses. When everyone watches Star Wars, they see Luke Skywalker in an X-Wing. When they read Wuthering Heights they read about the ghost of Catherine. Minas Tirith is objectively a part of the Lord of the Rings narrative, and Nynaeve is objectively the Wisdom of Emond's Field. This doesn't apply to Dungeons & Dragons. I've played in hundreds of sessions - in all probability, I've spent more time in Dungeons & Dragons than any existing Lego license (Doctor Who excluded). In all that time, other than a handful of generic baddies, there is nothing from my experience with the game which would feature in a hypothetical Lego set, and vice versa. Lego aren't about to make a set of the beloved innkeeper Hestja and her Rascal's Retreat, or Ead's great battle in the ruins of Fort Damarys, because these things exist only in one campaign enjoyed by half a dozen people. That's the big failing point of Dungeons & Dragons as a potential Lego license. It's not about coming away with a different reading on the material. It's about the content being fundamentally different. There are no characters to recreate. No locations. Any set is just going to be a generic fantasy-themed set, at least to most people, and Lego can do that just as well without forking out the licence for another company's property.

That's the fundamental question that doesn't have an answer as far as I've seen. If Lego could make Dungeons & Dragons sets, what sets would they make? I don't mean vaguely, like "a set with a Beholder in a tower" or something. Specific sets. What can they home in on?

And if there aren't any such sets, why should they bother with the licence?

Let me frame it another way. When I think of Star Wars, I think of lightsaber duels and starfighters and Darth Vader, stuff like that. When I think of The Lord of the Rings, I think of Frodo and Gollum and Gandalf. When I think of Dungeons & Dragons, I think of the litany of multi-faceted dice. And I can't see that Lego would want to resurrect the old dice mould and make equivalents for D4, D8, D10, D12 and D20 - given that the dice was famously one of the most expensive moulds Lego ever made - for what would ultimately be a non-descript theme.

[SirBlake]

3 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

That's the fundamental question that doesn't have an answer as far as I've seen. If Lego could make Dungeons & Dragons sets, what sets would they make? I don't mean vaguely, like "a set with a Beholder in a tower" or something. Specific sets. What can they home in on?

Once again, they would likely depict scenes from the upcoming movie.

[Killian]

I'd love Lego sets based on the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon from the 80s

 

[zoth33]

8 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

I was saying that the show is brilliant (I'd argue it outshone Game of Thrones at its peak and even at its lowest ebb was comfortably the best drama series since the first season of Broadchurch) but that's my opinion and neither here nor there.

I really don't get how you're not understanding my other point, though. Yes, you might get different things out of a book or series to me - but there are still things you can make sets out of, as with existing licenses. When everyone watches Star Wars, they see Luke Skywalker in an X-Wing. When they read Wuthering Heights they read about the ghost of Catherine. Minas Tirith is objectively a part of the Lord of the Rings narrative, and Nynaeve is objectively the Wisdom of Emond's Field. This doesn't apply to Dungeons & Dragons. I've played in hundreds of sessions - in all probability, I've spent more time in Dungeons & Dragons than any existing Lego license (Doctor Who excluded). In all that time, other than a handful of generic baddies, there is nothing from my experience with the game which would feature in a hypothetical Lego set, and vice versa. Lego aren't about to make a set of the beloved innkeeper Hestja and her Rascal's Retreat, or Ead's great battle in the ruins of Fort Damarys, because these things exist only in one campaign enjoyed by half a dozen people. That's the big failing point of Dungeons & Dragons as a potential Lego license. It's not about coming away with a different reading on the material. It's about the content being fundamentally different. There are no characters to recreate. No locations. Any set is just going to be a generic fantasy-themed set, at least to most people, and Lego can do that just as well without forking out the licence for another company's property.

That's the fundamental question that doesn't have an answer as far as I've seen. If Lego could make Dungeons & Dragons sets, what sets would they make? I don't mean vaguely, like "a set with a Beholder in a tower" or something. Specific sets. What can they home in on?

And if there aren't any such sets, why should they bother with the licence?

Let me frame it another way. When I think of Star Wars, I think of lightsaber duels and starfighters and Darth Vader, stuff like that. When I think of The Lord of the Rings, I think of Frodo and Gollum and Gandalf. When I think of Dungeons & Dragons, I think of the litany of multi-faceted dice. And I can't see that Lego would want to resurrect the old dice mould and make equivalents for D4, D8, D10, D12 and D20 - given that the dice was famously one of the most expensive moulds Lego ever made - for what would ultimately be a non-descript theme.

Ok but it doesn't have to be based off the game like I said it can be based off the books or like sir blake said the new movie.  Even if they did base it off the game there are several guides they could pull characters from.  But let's go your root and do it game like and give the set a multitude of minifg parts to make your own character and a map or a board.  Then they could expand from there like a tavern or ruins or castle.  

4 hours ago, SirBlake said:

Once again, they would likely depict scenes from the upcoming movie.

Yes or like I said any of the books would be fine like Forgotten realms or Dragonlance.  

[SirBlake]

There are also some iconic characters and creatures that could make for amazing sets. Imagine a Lego Tiamat. 
 

https://dungeonsdragons.fandom.com/wiki/Tiamat

[TeriXeri]

15 hours ago, SirBlake said:

There are also some iconic characters and creatures that could make for amazing sets. Imagine a Lego Tiamat. 
 

https://dungeonsdragons.fandom.com/wiki/Tiamat

I agree, LEGO does have Ultra Dragons with 4 heads but those aren't really Hydra-Like.

Edited May 13, 2022 by TeriXeri

[Lion King]

I’m not very familiar with D&D here but I did hear a lot about D&D almost everyday and some people I know are playing this game. 

I’m curious - is Moon Warrior from CMF Series 22 an inspiraiton from this D&D stuff?

[AmperZand]

12 hours ago, DBlegonerd7 said:

I’m not very familiar with D&D here but I did hear a lot about D&D almost everyday and some people I know are playing this game. 

I’m curious - is Moon Warrior from CMF Series 22 an inspiraiton from this D&D stuff?

Probably. While there may be other sources of inspiration, moon elves are a race in the Forgotten Realms, one of the main settings in D&D. Their skin tone tends more towards shades of lavender but their hair colour can - and often is - the same at the Moon Warrior’s. Also, in D&D, moon elf warriors are usually female, like LEGO’s Moon Warrior CMF. Males aren’t generally warriors; they tend to be druids.

[TeriXeri]

11 hours ago, AmperZand said:

Probably. While there may be other sources of inspiration, moon elves are a race in the Forgotten Realms, one of the main settings in D&D. Their skin tone tends more towards shades of lavender but their hair colour can - and often is - the same at the Moon Warrior’s. Also, in D&D, moon elf warriors are usually female, like LEGO’s Moon Warrior CMF. Males aren’t generally warriors; they tend to be druids.

Same exact thing in Warcraft, females with lavender skin tones and hair colors like purple, green, white etc.

Also a white moon crescent on purple background is prominently used as symbol, and their goddess of worship.

In Warcraft 3 the males were all druids, in fact had to be awoken first to even fight, in World of Warcraft, the main warrior forces/sentinels are still majority female outside of the player classes.

Warcraft might not be the "original" source of all this lore/design, but it certainly popularized it over the last 2 decade outside of Warhammer/D&D universes.

Warcraft 3 released almost 20 year ago (July 2002), which had 2 of it's 4 campaigns mainly focused on the new continent and Night Elf lands, and Night Elf was one of the new playable factions.

Edited May 15, 2022 by TeriXeri

[AmperZand]

1 hour ago, TeriXeri said:

Same exact thing in Warcraft, females with lavender skin tones and hair colors like purple, green, white etc.

Also a white moon crescent on purple background is prominently used as symbol, and their goddess of worship.

In Warcraft 3 the males were all druids, in fact had to be awoken first to even fight, in World of Warcraft, the main warrior forces/sentinels are still majority female outside of the player classes.

Warcraft might not be the "original" source of all this lore/design, but it certainly popularized it over the last 2 decade outside of Warhammer/D&D universes.

Warcraft 3 released almost 20 year ago (July 2002), which had 2 of it's 4 campaigns mainly focused on the new continent and Night Elf lands, and Night Elf was one of the new playable factions.

Without LEGO’s designers divulging their inspirations, I suspect the chain of influence may be:

D&D -> WoW -> LEGO Moon Warrior 

But that’s just a guess on my part. I don’t have any inside information about that.

[Alexandrina]

12 hours ago, AmperZand said:

Probably. While there may be other sources of inspiration, moon elves are a race in the Forgotten Realms, one of the main settings in D&D. Their skin tone tends more towards shades of lavender but their hair colour can - and often is - the same at the Moon Warrior’s. Also, in D&D, moon elf warriors are usually female, like LEGO’s Moon Warrior CMF. Males aren’t generally warriors; they tend to be druids.

This imo serves to strengthen the argument that Lego won't ever bother licensing D&D. Why do they need to spend money on the licence, when they can just do whatever they fancy anyway - even inspired by the games. That's not to say a D&D-esque theme won't ever happen, but I suspect Lego would be better off doing it in-house.

[Lion King]

20 hours ago, AmperZand said:

Probably. While there may be other sources of inspiration, moon elves are a race in the Forgotten Realms, one of the main settings in D&D. Their skin tone tends more towards shades of lavender but their hair colour can - and often is - the same at the Moon Warrior’s. Also, in D&D, moon elf warriors are usually female, like LEGO’s Moon Warrior CMF. Males aren’t generally warriors; they tend to be druids.

What an interesting info, thanks for sharing it! I am hoping for some fantasy creatures despite the fact that I am not so familiar iwth D&D.

[SirBlake]

12 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

This imo serves to strengthen the argument that Lego won't ever bother licensing D&D. Why do they need to spend money on the licence, when they can just do whatever they fancy anyway - even inspired by the games. That's not to say a D&D-esque theme won't ever happen, but I suspect Lego would be better off doing it in-house.

Even better. I’d rather have yellow minifigs in such a theme anyway.

[AmperZand]

On 5/15/2022 at 2:38 PM, Alexandrina said:

This imo serves to strengthen the argument that Lego won't ever bother licensing D&D. Why do they need to spend money on the licence, when they can just do whatever they fancy anyway - even inspired by the games. That's not to say a D&D-esque theme won't ever happen, but I suspect Lego would be better off doing it in-house.

You’re not accounting for the pull of a brand. Why do an Adidas trainer when LEGO could have done a generic tennis shoe? Why do Camp Nou stadium when LEGO could have done a generic stadium? Why do James Bond’s Aston Martin when LEGO could have done an unidentified 1960s-style sports car? Why do Star Wars when LEGO could have stuck with an in-house sci-fi theme? You get the idea.

From our perspective as fantasy loving AFOLs, you’re right: a D&D licence might not bring much and would add to the cost of any product(s). But from a business perspective - LEGO’s point of view - it makes a big difference. It’s the lure, publicity and appeal that draws in non-FOL fantasy and gaming fans. That’s hugely valuable to LEGO.

[Alexandrina]

1 hour ago, AmperZand said:

You’re not accounting for the pull of a brand. Why do an Adidas trainer when LEGO could have done a generic tennis shoe? Why do Camp Nou stadium when LEGO could have done a generic stadium? Why do James Bond’s Aston Martin when LEGO could have done an unidentified 1960s-style sports car? Why do Star Wars when LEGO could have stuck with an in-house sci-fi theme? You get the idea.

I want to say you're right (in the sense that I'm an AFOL desperate for any fantasy-related Lego) but I'm not sure the pull of the brand is enough. People have brought up an upcoming film (which tbf I'd not heard about before) and I suppose if it's a hit then it might warrant making sets for - but we also can't assume it will be a hit, and without that the franchise is short of recognisable and unique characters/locations. However, I think the main issue is that I'm not sure how big the set-buying market is. I've seen people here and on Reddit suggesting that Lego could essentially make a series of sets that would allow the bricks to be used in conjunction with the tabletop game (ie as battlemaps and tokens) and I think this is a strong concept - I've often considered using Lego for my own campaign, and only haven't because I play online and I can't build to save my life. But it's also a limited concept. Kids might buy some of the sets like battlepacks, but I don't know that they'll buy them in a huge volume - after all, to an eight-year-old, generic orcs or dwarves will have less allure than stormtroopers or superheroes. On the other hand, I can't see what D&D set would make a good large display piece. Sets like the Nou Camp or the Titanic are targeted at a very particular audience which I don't think is the same people who buy battlepacks in large quantities to build armies.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, of course, but I feel like D&D doesn't necessarily offer anything that will bring in a wide enough market consistently - unless, of course, the upcoming film proves to be a huge success and cements specific characters in the public eye.

[AmperZand]

@Alexandrina, While I would prefer a series of D&D LEGO sets (possibly including gameplay features), more realistically I see this as a one-off set that can be a display piece for the 18+ segment and a play set for kids. I imagine a scene with a D&D-style red dragon, various iconic D&D monsters (mind flayer, kobold, umber hulk, drow/drider), a party of adventurers (human barbarian, elf wizard with magical effects, dwarf fighter, halfling rogue with a treasure map), and a cavern setting with appropriate terrain (stream of lava, stalagmites, trap, hidden chamber with treasure) designed in such a way that the monsters and characters can be placed in many different configurations. Does an assembly of a dragon, mind flayer and drow/drider make sense? No, but that never stopped D&D and is arguably in keeping with the lack of plausibility of D&D's genre of fantasy.

I disagree that D&D doesn't have brand recognition by itself, i.e. without named characters or specific scenes. In the Big Bang Theory, for example, the writers felt it necessary to explain to the audience what bitcoin was but not D&D. Admittedly, the BBT audience is predisposed to knowing what D&D is, but even so - you could say the same of bitcoin. Another example is Stranger Things. I haven't seen it but apparently D&D is featured in that too. D&D has become ubiquitous in pop culture thanks in no small part to the internet (including streams). Unfortunately, I don't have any data to support my position and suspect you don't have any to support yours, so we're unlikely to resolve the question of D&D's brand value. All we can do is speculate. Hasbro and LEGO, on the other hand, could determine the degree of recognition of D&D's brand. It may come down to their market research whether we ever see D&D LEGO.

[MAB]

On 5/16/2022 at 7:04 PM, AmperZand said:

You’re not accounting for the pull of a brand. Why do an Adidas trainer when LEGO could have done a generic tennis shoe? Why do Camp Nou stadium when LEGO could have done a generic stadium? Why do James Bond’s Aston Martin when LEGO could have done an unidentified 1960s-style sports car? Why do Star Wars when LEGO could have stuck with an in-house sci-fi theme? You get the idea.

I doubt there is much of a market for a generic tennis shoe done in LEGO. Whereas there is a market for Adidas collectables including from non-LEGO fans. Similarly, I doubt there is much of a market for a generic sports stadium. But there is a market for Barcelona branded items again including non-LEGO fans. There is probably more of a market for an unidentified 60s car, but still not as much as when combined with James Bond. Personally, I think there is more of a market for Star Wars LEGO than generic space LEGO.

It then comes down to does LEGO think there is enough of a market for generic fantasy vs branded fantasy and also whether this is long term or one and done. At the moment, it appears they don't think there is enough of a market for either branded or unbranded fantasy as a whole theme. I'd like to think that there is enough of a fantasy fanbase within LEGO fans to have an in-house theme rather than resorting to bring in another license to do their minifigures and use their branding, but then space fans also think that and look at how badly the space MOC faired in the bricklink designer program compared to MOCS aligned with other subjects.

 

[Triceron]

On 5/15/2022 at 4:34 AM, TeriXeri said:

Same exact thing in Warcraft, females with lavender skin tones and hair colors like purple, green, white etc.

Also a white moon crescent on purple background is prominently used as symbol, and their goddess of worship.

In Warcraft 3 the males were all druids, in fact had to be awoken first to even fight, in World of Warcraft, the main warrior forces/sentinels are still majority female outside of the player classes.

Warcraft might not be the "original" source of all this lore/design, but it certainly popularized it over the last 2 decade outside of Warhammer/D&D universes.

Warcraft 3 released almost 20 year ago (July 2002), which had 2 of it's 4 campaigns mainly focused on the new continent and Night Elf lands, and Night Elf was one of the new playable factions.

I'd die for a proper Grizzly Bear (with mouth and head articulation, like the LOTR Wargs) or Werebear minifigure.  I'd love to have an army of Grizzly Druids!

Edited May 18, 2022 by Triceron

[AmperZand]

9 hours ago, MAB said:

It then comes down to does LEGO think there is enough of a market for generic fantasy vs branded fantasy and also whether this is long term or one and done. At the moment, it appears they don't think there is enough of a market for either branded or unbranded fantasy as a whole theme. I'd like to think that there is enough of a fantasy fanbase within LEGO fans to have an in-house theme rather than resorting to bring in another license to do their minifigures and use their branding, but then space fans also think that and look at how badly the space MOC faired in the bricklink designer program compared to MOCS aligned with other subjects.

 

It's partly a matter of whether there is sufficient demand and partly a matter of whether LEGO's market research shows that a generic or branded/licensed fantasy theme wouldn't cannibalise sales of other lines (e.g. HP, Ninjago). It may even be that a generic fantasy set or line would cannibalise, but a branded/licensed theme would not. If that's true, that increases the odds of a D&D line or set and would explain why we haven't had much of a generic fantasy offering such as Fantasy Era for a long time.

That said, it seems like Classic Space fans are to get a neo-CS Galaxy Explorer/Space Cruiser & Moonbase later this year. So maybe there's hope for generic fantasy after all.

[Killian]

The alternate build for set 71786 could pass for a D&D Dragonborn

[Triceron]

15 minutes ago, Killian said:

The alternate build for set 71786 could pass for a D&D Dragonborn

Vidyo's Metal Dragon works perfect for that in Minifigure form too

[zoth33]

4 hours ago, Atrius Kain said:

Paramount announced a new tv series.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2023/01/dungeons-and-dragons-live-action-series-paramount-plus-rawson-marshall-thurber-eone-paramount-pictures-1235215486/amp/

Perhaps there is hope for the theme...

That's interesting hoping it's better than the live action we have gotten this year.  This is supposed to be the golden age of fantasy in media but has fallen flat.  The only live action I have enjoyed so far is House of the Dragon.