(MOC) Pagani Huayra 1:8 (Instructions Available!)

[astyanax]

8 minutes ago, langko said:

a studio file would be way to difficult for anyone to build from. There is so much stuff that has to be assembled in a very particular order or it doesn't work.

Well a virtual model contains steps and subassemblies too. That's the only sane way to even construct a virtual model of this size. I talk from experience. 

Since I always disassemble everything in order to recover the parts, keeping virtual models of my ideas and builds is a must for me...

[Alex Ilea]

That’s a sexy car combo, please more !!

[langko]

10 minutes ago, astyanax said:

Well a virtual model contains steps and subassemblies too. That's the only sane way to even construct a virtual model of this size. I talk from experience. 

Since I always disassemble everything in order to recover the parts, keeping virtual models of my ideas and builds is a must for me...

Haha well if you do it properly it should have steps etc... but that's a heck of a lot of work. Thankfully I don't recover my parts so I don't record anything I do  

For me its much more fun getting away from the computer... I spend most of my working week on one for my job. 

7 minutes ago, IA creations said:

That’s a sexy car combo, please more !!

Cheers! The yellow is definitely something you don't see much... At my designing rate I might have another one by the end of 2023 

[langko]

Have added a video: 

In the spirit of constant improvement I also changed the rear suspension slightly... Removed the 2 yellow 3x5 liftarms and replaced them with 4 yellow 3x5 thin ellipses. I think it improves the look. There is always something to tinker with, but for the most part its time to move on to other projects.

Also: glow in the dark headlights 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by langko

[astyanax]

2 hours ago, langko said:

Have added a video: 

[MarkyMark42]

That Pagani is a beast. I wouldn't know where to start to build something like that, let alone have enough pieces to do it. If Lego released this set I would buy it in a second as it would sit perfectly with the other 4 supercars

[Fuzzock]

Absolutely gorgeous model, well done!!

It is a shame about the instructions, but I understand your reasons. I will just have to raise my own MOC building skills! 

Ian...

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Fuzzock
Can't type for sht...

[Jeroen Ottens]

+1 for the yellow quarterellipses in the suspension and the video .

Are the aero flaps always connected to the mechanism that lifts them, or do they disengage when the clamshells open?

As for the gearbox I nowadays also mostly use the R-N-D8 gearbox. Coincidentally next project will be a Pagani Huayra as well, that will be an exception gearbox wise as I want to replicate the double-function shiftlever (I managed to do that in a 1:10 scale, so no excuse for not doing it in a 1:8 scale for me).

Edited May 22, 2022 by Jeroen Ottens

[LvdH]

Amazing video. Definitely the best Huayra I’ve seen. The details and functions look incredibly authentic. So unfortunate you won’t make instruction, because I’ve always wanted a 1:8 version. Unless @Jeroen Ottens version will have instructions, I’ll be waiting a while for Tlego’s version  

[langko]

On 5/22/2022 at 7:35 PM, MarkyMark42 said:

That Pagani is a beast. I wouldn't know where to start to build something like that, let alone have enough pieces to do it. If Lego released this set I would buy it in a second as it would sit perfectly with the other 4 supercars

Thanks! Lot of brick-link orders and 1x42127 Batmobile set to get the pieces. 

On 5/22/2022 at 9:18 PM, Fuzzock said:

Absolutely gorgeous model, well done!!

It is a shame about the instructions, but I understand your reasons. I will just have to raise my own MOC building skills! 

Ian...

 

Thank you for the comment, and for understanding with the instructions. I like your attitude, the only reason my MOCs exist is because there were no instructions to make anything like them. Making your own stuff will always be more rewarding in my opinion. 

(and don't worry I frequently can't type for sht as well... my building skills is much higher than my spelling skills haha)

On 5/22/2022 at 9:25 PM, Jeroen Ottens said:

+1 for the yellow quarterellipses in the suspension and the video .

Are the aero flaps always connected to the mechanism that lifts them, or do they disengage when the clamshells open?

As for the gearbox I nowadays also mostly use the R-N-D8 gearbox. Coincidentally next project will be a Pagani Huayra as well, that will be an exception gearbox wise as I want to replicate the double-function shiftlever (I managed to do that in a 1:10 scale, so no excuse for not doing it in a 1:8 scale for me).

Glad you like the suspension upgrade! It seems so obvious that I don't know why I didn't do it earlier, but I don't use those ellipse parts much so I just forgot they existed. 

They disengage when the clamshells are open, it was one of the main features I wanted to have. I found it a bit odd looking at other versions of this car where the flaps stayed closed when the clamshells are open...

Wow sounds like a lot of people will be attempting this car soon! I look forward to seeing other peoples renditions of it. I also look forward to seeing more progress with your Ford GT 

19 hours ago, LvdH said:

Amazing video. Definitely the best Huayra I’ve seen. The details and functions look incredibly authentic. So unfortunate you won’t make instruction, because I’ve always wanted a 1:8 version. Unless @Jeroen Ottens version will have instructions, I’ll be waiting a while for Tlego’s version  

Thanks very much! I tried to execute all the details as authentically as possible to do the car justice, the real car is defiantly a work of art. I'm sure one of them (or both) will have instructions, so that hopefully makes up for me not having any  Maybe T-legos version will eventually be available through cada too...

Have you ever though of making your own MOC of something? You must be one of the most experienced builders with Lego cars, so I'm sure you've experienced lots of different building tricks. Plus your part collection would surely make it possible. 

[Wlliam Dong]

What a creative design, I love it so much! give me your email? would like to ask some questions，thanks~

[Ethan0080]

I am jealous as my version wasnt as good as yours

[langko]

On 6/25/2022 at 8:33 AM, Ethan0080 said:

I am jealous as my version wasnt as good as yours

Yours was based of this MOC right? https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-31944/Joebot360/pagani-huayra/#details

Don't be too hard on yourself, I had better/newer parts available than he did 3 years ago. I'm sure an even better version of this would be possible with the new red parts from the Daytona as well.

[Ethan0080]

On 6/27/2022 at 5:41 AM, langko said:

Yours was based of this MOC right? https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-31944/Joebot360/pagani-huayra/#details

Don't be too hard on yourself, I had better/newer parts available than he did 3 years ago. I'm sure an even better version of this would be possible with the new red parts from the Daytona as well.

Yes i did mine a while back. With a lot of modification

[astyanax]

On 5/9/2022 at 11:12 AM, langko said:

 

 

At 3:27, when you show the shift sequence, we start in R and then go to N and then to 1 and up to 7 -- as per my understanding of Anto's gearbox. But evidently, this is done by pushing the shifter forward (assuming the front of the car is on the right in the video). Isn't that the wrong way around? From the driver's perspective, one should be pulling the shifter backward to shift up, no?

[langko]

11 hours ago, astyanax said:

At 3:27, when you show the shift sequence, we start in R and then go to N and then to 1 and up to 7 -- as per my understanding of Anto's gearbox. But evidently, this is done by pushing the shifter forward (assuming the front of the car is on the right in the video). Isn't that the wrong way around? From the driver's perspective, one should be pulling the shifter backward to shift up, no?

I've done some research and you are indeed correct on all accounts, I appreciate the feedback! This is a great example of why I would ask someone like yourself to go over my work before I ever released instructions for any of models, another pair of eyes is always good. (See top photo below for the Huayra shifter).

I had gone with the logical (for me anyway) assumption that up shifts up and down shifts down. It doesn't help that my personal car only strengthens that assumption as it works that way... But since my car is a poor example of a high performance hyper car, cars like the Audi R8 (bottom left) and Bugatti Chiron (bottom right) also work this way. Morale of the story, don't assume and always triple check what your are doing. 

Good news is that design wise its a super easy fix for the model, you only have to change the orientation of a particular knob gear. I actual recall having it the correct way initially but I changed it because I didn't think that was right haha. 

I would be interested to see which way @Jeroen Ottens has it in his Huayra models. In his current wip thread he has written the following

"In the right most position the shift can move forward/backward to shift up/down."

The way that is worded insinuates (for me anyway) that his version works the same way mine (incorrectly) dose...

[astyanax]

6 hours ago, langko said:

I've done some research and you are indeed correct on all accounts, I appreciate the feedback!

Thanks for clearing that up! I really wasn't on a quest to point out flaws; on the contrary, I had recently been studying Anto's gearbox and thought it was a neat exercise to follow along and really get what was going on in your video -- but alas this raised the question above. 

If I may further test my understanding... I see you slightly modified the gearbox, getting rid of part 35186 ("Technic Driving Ring Extension 8 Tooth"). However, in doing so you may have introduced a (minor) issue. Can you try for me switching between 4th and 5th gear while rolling the model? Does the gearbox grind or jam?

[langko]

4 hours ago, astyanax said:

Thanks for clearing that up! I really wasn't on a quest to point out flaws; on the contrary, I had recently been studying Anto's gearbox and thought it was a neat exercise to follow along and really get what was going on in your video -- but alas this raised the question above. 

If I may further test my understanding... I see you slightly modified the gearbox, getting rid of part 35186 ("Technic Driving Ring Extension 8 Tooth"). However, in doing so you may have introduced a (minor) issue. Can you try for me switching between 4th and 5th gear while rolling the model? Does the gearbox grind or jam?

To be honest I had never thought about shifting while moving but I have tested and it works at a very slow speed, but not when things are moving quickly. I had indeed gotten rid of both 35186's in my model, simply because mine was a stud more compact and didn't need them. The overall layout is a bit different to Anto's due the needing to block of the 8th gear to create only 7 gears. The 90degree limiters/blockers work a bit differently because of that. I'm curious why you think the driving ring (or lack of one) makes a difference in relation to switching between 4th-5th? My understanding is that it would the same in both cases, for me the weak link is in the shifting mechanism not gear layout. From experience the Bionicle Eyes on the knob gears (58176) are not ideal because they create too much friction. Using the microphone (90370) parts work better because they are slightly smaller in diameter and therefor have less friction. Sadly this model still uses the Bionicle Eyes as it was designed well before I learnt the above mentioned fact, and I just haven't bothered tearing the car to down to fix it. But that would definitely be a change I would make to the model. 

[astyanax]

8 hours ago, langko said:

I'm curious why you think the driving ring (or lack of one) makes a difference in relation to switching between 4th-5th?

Well, it's not the driving ring itself, but the resulting repositioning of parts. You need a way to prevent the orange wave selector of the R-N-Lo-Hi gearbox from rotating spontaneously. From the video I infer that you've added a #2 connector in front of the wave selector in question, held at straight angles using some unseen part pulled against it with the white rubber band that can be seen underneath. But the issue is (again, inferred) that the #2 connector will catch the teeth of the blue clutch gear underneath it. The should happen for instance when switching between 4th and 5th gear.

 

8 hours ago, langko said:

From experience the Bionicle Eyes on the knob gears (58176) are not ideal because they create too much friction.

At first I thought this might be problematic too, but now I think Bionicle Eyes are fine for 2 reasons:

1. The friction goes away if you try a few different knob gears and eyes -- some combinations don't give extra friction.
2. The finger-operated sequential shifter (I know it from the Centenario) is so strong it easily overcomes the friction. Perhaps one should be more friction-minded when RC-ing this gearbox (if that even makes sense).

[langko]

2 hours ago, astyanax said:

Well, it's not the driving ring itself, but the resulting repositioning of parts...

Now I understand what you mean, and you infer correctly again. I've done some testing with the setup in a dummy frame... It seems the connector only catches when the blue gear is rotated at a specific angle (when a tooth is at exactly 12 o'clock), other wise it just passes between the teeth. I also think there is just enough backlash in the gear that when the connector does catch it still rotates through ok. Admittedly this is not ideal but it seems to explain why you can get away with it in a static situation. In a moving situation you are in trouble. 

Out of curiosity I took my Bugatti (pimped up version) and Lambo (stock) and testing the gear shifting whilst moving. They run a completely different setup to the Pagani so it was interesting to compare. Both models completely failed and I seem to have broken something internal in both of them... I also have another unreleased MOC of mine, I designed a new unique paddle shifting/gearbox for it. It uses the above mentioned microphone pieces, there are no interfering situations like you've mentioned, and it has zero elastic bands (runs entirely with soft shock absorbers). In a static situation it is by far the most reliable system I've ever used, yet I tested it and that still struggles to shift whilst moving. Which makes me wonder what one has to do to achieve that in a N/R/7 or 8 gearbox with a shifting mechanism. Is there simply way too many gears/knobs in such a system? Or will a manual system be too slow too operate under such conditions to work properly? (compared to the quicker shift with less gear/knobs that be achieved with a motor)

3 hours ago, astyanax said:

At first I thought this might be problematic too, but now I think Bionicle Eyes are fine for 2 reasons:

1. The friction goes away if you try a few different knob gears and eyes -- some combinations don't give extra friction.
2. The finger-operated sequential shifter (I know it from the Centenario) is so strong it easily overcomes the friction. Perhaps one should be more friction-minded when RC-ing this gearbox (if that even makes sense).

In response to 1: I think any idea that is reliant on you choosing the right combination of parts isn't the greatest solution. The microphone parts work the same every time regardless. The Bionicle Eyes might not be a bad solution, they might just not be the best one.
In response to 2: The Centenario gearbox runs of a different system and doesn't use the Bionicle Eyes, (also no N/R in the setup) so I think its a bit hard to use as an example. Have you tried the shifter connected to Anto's gearbox, and compared between the Eyes and the Microphones? That does make sense with the RC but I can't think of a good reason to put such a setup in a RC model haha.

[astyanax]

14 minutes ago, langko said:

That doesn't look like mine does

Correct. 

I drizzled your already-beautiful model with my modding sauce.

Let me drop this here so as not to hijack @Jeroen Ottens's thread.

 

Of course the YT description links to your video as well as this thread. Credit where credit is due.

[langko]

9 hours ago, astyanax said:

Correct. 

I drizzled your already-beautiful model with my modding sauce.

Bro what the heck, I can't believe it  I legit first thought someone had made a photoshopped version to try and sell some dodgy product haha

I can't believe someone tried to reverse engineer it, but if anyone would I can't say I'm surprised that it was you. Its actually insane how close you got it based purely of photos and a video... whilst also improving it the same time. Those new big shock absorbers look amazing! I sadly didn't have them available when I built the chassis so its cool to see them included here. The red version is jaw dropping  I really wanted to do a 2-tone version but at the time of my model the parts didn't exist, the Daytona now makes it possible. Absolutely fantastic job! And 4,565 pieces?! man that's gotta be close to a record for this scale car haha. My guess would've been around 4000 even. I take it you fixed the shifting direction as well?

Respect where respect is due.

[LvdH]

Very impressive that you managed to reverse engineer this car. The red version looks amazing! I actually prefer that one because you can see the lines a lot better. Would you be willing to share the io file, privately if necessary? If @langko doesn’t mind, of course  

[Berthil]

@astyanax Great work! You would make many happy with sharing (after permission by @langko) including me! If you need help to create instructions from the Stud.io file just let me know, meanwhile I've got quite some experience in creating (free) instructions.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Berthil

[astyanax]

7 hours ago, langko said:

And 4,565 pieces?! man that's gotta be close to a record for this scale car haha. My guess would've been around 4000 even.

Yours might indeed be closer to 4000. Since there was no good shot of the chassis, I made my own, and I wanted to make it stiff and strong, but perhaps due to inexperience I might have over-engineered it. The chassis is form-locked itself, and other modules are form-locked into the chassis, even the roof. As shown at the end of the video, one can easily lift the model by the rear of the roof.

7 hours ago, langko said:

I take it you fixed the shifting direction as well?

Of course. This should be evident from the belly-shot in the video as well.

I may attempt to list my mods here later (as far as I know them -- I don't even have the ground truth). There are some funny details that even @langko might not spot otherwise...