Ondra

Lego clearly doesnt want my money!

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Well I can buy 10 spaceships, I can buy 20 cars, I can buy 30 police oriented set EVERY YEAR...

But If I go nuts and I want train? Im adult, I can finally buy trains by my own will not like in 90s. Well wagons can be easily multiplied by multiple purchase. Its easy? Isnt it?

TLG: Forget, you are only stuck to one passenger high speed train and one freight train set when you get throaways side builds like armored truck. Well everybody clearly needs armored money truck in train pack... Best part its here, you are stuck with this for whole 4 YEARS!

 

You want some adult oriented train? Best we can do is locomotive every half of decade, but we are making it too big for every layout and we are selling it only for year, because everybody love these high secondary market prices... There is clearly no market at all...

Well we can throw also some Hogwarts Express once a while, because we think that non licensed steamers will not sell...

We actually you are clearly spoiled, there are actually two high speed trains this year. Its only your problem that is 4 studs wide...

 

IDEAS train? We will carefully evaluate every moc that was made with hard work, but thats all. Thanks for coming!

 

You dont get it? Best we can do is millenium falcon with train tracks... Do you want also some lazer buffers with it?

 

 

Thats all folks, there is no problem. Only problem is in me, that I want train. Trains are clearly obsolete means of transport by TLG... Minifigures are stuck with cars and spaceships as viable means of transport... Truly modern and innovative way of thinking...

 

Just imagine!

 

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Well in here everyone agrees with you, but at least there are some sets expected so let's see. The 12V era will never come back, LEGO makes way to much money so they really do not care but at least we get enough train parts and in these days we have bricklink so we can make MOCs, etc.

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3 minutes ago, JopieK said:

Well in here everyone agrees with you, but at least there are some sets expected so let's see. The 12V era will never come back, LEGO makes way to much money so they really do not care but at least we get enough train parts and in these days we have bricklink so we can make MOCs, etc.

I dont want 12 era back, I know its really hard to produce in this years.

I just want 9V era style of sets(Well with powered up)  I swear if this come back I will build train tracks across my house. MOC approach is really pricier. One fun fact,  Here in Czech republic there is one shop, that sell few MOC train sets. Whats interesting even more, he is mostly sold out. We are small country and there is market for shop selling train MOC sets... Just look https://www.ferinatrains.cz/

 

Im having fingers crossed what will be trains in 2022. If these rumours are true, there seems to be wagons in freight set easily multiplied. According to just rumours I have prepared money for 2x freight train... Yes Im that desperate for something that can scream long badass freight train.

 

I think 60198 is bad, because of variety of wagons and I prefer another wagon in position of side builds.

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Why would the 12V era be difficult to produce? I don't mean the middle pickup and sleepers, I mean all those nice sets. Even though I also think the My own train sets were also really great for AFOLs. Nowadays it would be very doable to make an automated level crossing even with train approach sensors using Powered Up technology. Also automated points etc. The only way to get enough track without breaking the bank is via Lugbulk I would say. But hopefully it survives, LEGO is killing a lot of AFOL initiatives as of late.

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40 minutes ago, JopieK said:

Why would the 12V era be difficult to produce? I don't mean the middle pickup and sleepers, I mean all those nice sets. Even though I also think the My own train sets were also really great for AFOLs. Nowadays it would be very doable to make an automated level crossing even with train approach sensors using Powered Up technology. Also automated points etc. The only way to get enough track without breaking the bank is via Lugbulk I would say. But hopefully it survives, LEGO is killing a lot of AFOL initiatives as of late.

Seeing prices of lego electrified bricks and it will be on par with train hobby parts. With power functions it was kinda ok, but powered up is weird system, very limiting.

I was recently shocked by prices of some robotics pieces. It think it was steal at broad daylight. But nothing new, I was in mindstorms school club and biggest problem was financing all these bricks, overpriced basic bricks from official lego study programs. I was shocked and stunned when they tell us these prices. There was no way to buy sets second hand, they need all new bricks just for proper accountancy. When they get some money, bam there was new batch of mindstorms and these sensor bricks were obsolete. It was for me really life changing experience, how all power goes thru money... We had some great ideas, like automatized cranes or self navigating cars, but we ran out of everything to build something...Maybe now it is better, I dont know... I was happy when I get into mindstorms club and I get out depressed and with pessimistic view on anything school and lego related.

 

These experiences totally turn me off anything electrical lego made bricks... They offered so tiny for so much...

 

So I only want really small steps from lego, basic locomotives with motor and some easy to buy wagons. And yet Im not fullfiled, and Im not alone. I don't t understand, its so easy to invent new train related sets because Its lego and these trains baseplates are not too big. Its not like made locomotive by model making companies for H0 scale for example.

 

Im always interested whats going on in heads of executives in LEGO(Well not only lego, all big companies) They somewhat are not interested in trains, but there are two trains sets for 4 years row and they are selling well... Always sold out everywhere.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Ondra said:

So I only want really small steps from lego, basic locomotives with motor and some easy to buy wagons. And yet Im not fullfiled, and Im not alone. I don't t understand, its so easy to invent new train related sets because Its lego and these trains baseplates are not too big. Its not like made locomotive by model making companies for H0 scale for example.

I agree, If I had a modern train (I still have an old 9V train) ,I'd like to expand it, not buy another one 4 year later to get more wagons or side-builds.

I know you can make MOC and whatnot, but those train wheels/magnets still have to come from somewhere like parted out sets.

I don't even want all electronic cranes or crossings, just an expandable system instead of waiting 4 years would go a long way into wanting to start collecting again.

When people talk about 9V or 12V eras it's not strictly the rails and how they were powered , but the availabiltiy of multiple sets, or at least yearly sets to expand, with stations, cargo wagons, passenger push trains or crossings / cargo yards.

LEGO has offered some train related things outside of the City line, the Hidden Side train set being the closest to an unpowered train with some cargo wagons that weren't Disney,Christmas or 18+ themed, outside of the Winter Village station the main focus is mostly locomotives or full trains, no seperate expansion material beside rails.

Edited by TeriXeri

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41 minutes ago, Ondra said:

Seeing prices of lego electrified bricks and it will be on par with train hobby parts. With power functions it was kinda ok, but powered up is weird system, very limiting.

I was recently shocked by prices of some robotics pieces. It think it was steal at broad daylight. But nothing new, I was in mindstorms school club and biggest problem was financing all these bricks, overpriced basic bricks from official lego study programs. I was shocked and stunned when they tell us these prices. There was no way to buy sets second hand, they need all new bricks just for proper accountancy. When they get some money, bam there was new batch of mindstorms and these sensor bricks were obsolete. It was for me really life changing experience, how all power goes thru money... We had some great ideas, like automatized cranes or self navigating cars, but we ran out of everything to build something...Maybe now it is better, I dont know... I was happy when I get into mindstorms club and I get out depressed and with pessimistic view on anything school and lego related.

You could always ask https://www.1000steine.de/de/gemeinschaft/my1000steine/profil/?id=10457

I am teaching microcontrollers and I also think the TI microcontroller was not he best choice but on the other hand you can reprogram it and do with it what you want. PF is way too limited for more advanced applications. 

See also: https://www.1000steine.de/de/gemeinschaft/forum/?entry=1&id=440039&lastid=1#lastid

(In German...).

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10 hours ago, JopieK said:

You could always ask https://www.1000steine.de/de/gemeinschaft/my1000steine/profil/?id=10457

I am teaching microcontrollers and I also think the TI microcontroller was not he best choice but on the other hand you can reprogram it and do with it what you want. PF is way too limited for more advanced applications. 

See also: https://www.1000steine.de/de/gemeinschaft/forum/?entry=1&id=440039&lastid=1#lastid

(In German...).

Thank you for links, but Im out of robotics . 

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My Own Train obviously took things too far (the list of individual sets released in one year was absurd), but if they could just offer ONE carriage or wagon sold individually, that would be great. I've bought two copies of 7939 mostly for the wagons, I'm looking around for further individual copies of those wagons to boost my fleet too.

60098 and 60198 have good locos and at least one good wagon apiece but I don't want to end up with a fleet of helicopters or cranes. One is quite enough.

As an AFoL, PoweredUp is an immensely versatile system. However it's really expensive which could put parents off. How about having a non-powered train (to which a motor and battery could later be added by the consumer) compatible with the rest of the system? Would be a good "gateway drug".

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2 hours ago, Kalahari134 said:

My Own Train obviously took things too far (the list of individual sets released in one year was absurd), but if they could just offer ONE carriage or wagon sold individually, that would be great. I've bought two copies of 7939 mostly for the wagons, I'm looking around for further individual copies of those wagons to boost my fleet too.

60098 and 60198 have good locos and at least one good wagon apiece but I don't want to end up with a fleet of helicopters or cranes. One is quite enough.

As an AFoL, PoweredUp is an immensely versatile system. However it's really expensive which could put parents off. How about having a non-powered train (to which a motor and battery could later be added by the consumer) compatible with the rest of the system? Would be a good "gateway drug".

You speak logic. The marketing department at LEGO will never listen to you.

Sadly, many of us that frequent the Trains forum have voiced this and similar opinions. Even something as simple as a parts pack with wheel sets and couplers is beyond TLG's imagination. It's bad enough that many have gone to third party suppliers for tracks, switches, wheel sets, couplers, and electrical systems.

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Posted (edited)

Isn't this part of the "charm" of being an Adult Fan Of LEGO? As a Castle-fan, you wait for years for a new Castle. You wait, and wait, and wait. And then you get... Nexo Knights. That could make anyone suicidal!

 

In the early 2000's there were no Pirates. It was just gone. I learned to live with it and move on. I MOC'd the living daylights out of my Red Beard Runner and used spare pieces to build ships without prefable hulls. If anything, in times like these, you learn to be creative and resourceful with what you have. Mind you, this was before I encountered Bricklink and Ebay, so I couldn't really discover outside of that restricted horizon.

The thing is, TLG has always been like this. They release some cool Western sets. Then they don't release anymore Western sets for another twenty years. You learn to live with it in one way or another. For me, it was my step into the Dark Ages where other hobbies dominated my interest in LEGO. When Pirates came back in 2009, it came as a complete surprise, almost shockingly so. It's like a dead relative suddenly standing in your kitchen.

With that said; Let's get back to Trains in 2022. I'm actually pretty happy with the TLG Train sets in the last three years. We've got two full-sized train sets, a Commuter Train and a Freight Train, loaded with detail. We've got that Brown Train, and lately we've got the white Creator Train. I'm gonna be honest with you - I'm glad TLG still remember us Train-enthusiasts. They know that we like trains, so they release trains. And I can always go to bricklink, or even the TLG website and buy more train-releated stuff. I don't have to wait another twelve years for a Pirate Ship, darn it!

I do would like another Train-crossing or a new Club Cart. It would be nice in many ways. But we can't have them all. Mostly, I would like to give the new generation of LEGO fans a shot at some of the sets we got when were younglings.

What can Train Enthusiasts do? Well, we can MOC and make instructions and share them on Eurobricks for others to MOC. You can send more IDEA sets to TLG for review. Or you can, just like me, sit in front of a MISB train in awe. Two years ago I cleaned my 4558 Metroliner. I tested the old tracks and greatly enjoyed watchig it flawlessly travel along the the tracks. There's a lot of things you can do to keep yourself invested. But you gotta have this one: PPS - Patience, Persistence, Stoicism. Distract your abstinence!

That's my 50 cents. Thank you for reading.

Edited by AViewToALego

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On 4/10/2022 at 2:01 PM, JopieK said:

The only way to get enough track without breaking the bank is via Lugbulk I would say.

As noted by Feuer Zug, "It's bad enough that many have gone to third party suppliers for tracks, switches, wheel sets, couplers, and electrical systems." But you can get double length molded track these days at a reasonable price.

 

On 4/10/2022 at 2:01 PM, JopieK said:

But hopefully it survives, LEGO is killing a lot of AFOL initiatives as of late.

You mean Lugbulk might go away? That would suck if it did, but I think they do recognize the value of having a bunch of power-AFOLs putting on a public show. It's hard to beat that kind of grass roots promotion... oh, wait, this is TLC, they don't mind cutting off their own arm.

 

On 4/11/2022 at 6:28 AM, Kalahari134 said:

My Own Train obviously took things too far (the list of individual sets released in one year was absurd), but if they could just offer ONE carriage or wagon sold individually, that would be great. I've bought two copies of 7939 mostly for the wagons, I'm looking around for further individual copies of those wagons to boost my fleet too.

Simply having ONE car and ONE locomotive available to buy would be nice. A 3 in 1 set in brown, dark green or dark red for a railcar could go a long way.

Or failing that, have a parts pack that is a Lego exclusive with two couplers, four sets of train wheels, one base plate and two bogie plates to at least let people EASILY MOC their own train cars.

 

 

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1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

Or failing that, have a parts pack that is a Lego exclusive with two couplers, four sets of train wheels, one base plate and two bogie plates to at least let people EASILY MOC their own train cars.

This! This is what LEGO needs to start with to get the creative juices flowing. A basic parts pack enabling us to MOC our own rolling stock. More options for locomotives would be nice too, but I'd settle for the bare minimums right now.

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1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

You mean Lugbulk might go away? That would suck if it did, but I think they do recognize the value of having a bunch of power-AFOLs putting on a public show. It's hard to beat that kind of grass roots promotion... oh, wait, this is TLC, they don't mind cutting off their own arm.

I hope not, but as of late I'm afraid nothing is safe anymore...

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I hope it doesn't go away.  It's really useful for obtaining quantities of train related parts to build for our public shows and events. They don't seem to have a problem taking my money.  :pir-classic:

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it would be pretty stupid of them to eliminate lugbulk as the lego shows are like free advertising for them. they would basically shoot themselves in the foot with it. but we are talking about lego company here so i wouldnt be surprised if they did.

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Not convinced there's any real market at all for individual train wagons. :wink:

I have a bunch to sell, split from sets, or MOCs, so I've been researching selling prices and volumes on Bricklink and eBay.

The sales volumes appear to be low. 

The selling prices appear to be low, basically cost of parts.

I know postage and customs charges make Bricklink difficult, compared to buying Lego retail, but yair, I don't see much evidence of demand for train wagons :classic:

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if there was a set with a wagon id think it would sell better than your efforts because people are more likely to buy from lego directly and an official set rather than from someone that splits sets.

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1 hour ago, andythenorth said:

Not convinced there's any real market at all for individual train wagons. :wink:

I have a bunch to sell, split from sets, or MOCs, so I've been researching selling prices and volumes on Bricklink and eBay.

The sales volumes appear to be low. 

The selling prices appear to be low, basically cost of parts.

I know postage and customs charges make Bricklink difficult, compared to buying Lego retail, but yair, I don't see much evidence of demand for train wagons :classic:

Bricklink is niche market for Afols. This cannot be compared with toys shops for wider audience everywhere.

We have there something like ebay, sometimes people sell official wagons and locomotives standalone from train sets. They are always sold out from cargo train.

 

If there is market in lego for shoes, flowers, big piano I think there is market for additional wagons arounds 300 pieces.

When I read discussion on youtube or reddit, people are mostly interested in leaks about trains when it comes to city or creator.

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3 hours ago, *thomas* said:

I'm starting to wonder why LEGO even makes city trains... 

Because the sets are an easy sell for kids' Christmas and birthdays. 

It's not hard to figure out is it, really? :classic:

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but appearantly not easy enough because then lego would make more sets and not 2 sets every 4 years.

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Lego is a slow to move bureaucracy and doing anything different with trains would take more thought than they have to devote to the matter. So they keep plodding along business as usual. AFOL's are not the prime target for the city trains and I bet they have market research data that shows that out of the kids who get one train set only a small fraction get a second train set so by extension why on earth would they want to make a third train set.

If they stick with a three year cycle and a small number of sets from the consumer side it would be better if they renewed the passenger train on year 1, station on year 2, freight train on year 3, then repeat (or whatever order with one per year being renewed). But they generally renew entire city sub-themes at one time, presumably for part production.

 

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When I think back to being a kid in the 9v era of trains (with the metal covered train tracks) I remember you could get a metroliner train and there was a pretty sweet yellow station you could get and an extra double decker carriage (although just an extra regular carriage same as in the metroliner set would also have been great) and you could set the speed with a big yellow dial and there was catalogues with well thought out scenes of these trains going to various places and then you could go to the toy shop and see these huge train sets and you could lift the lid and stare and all the lovely pieces through the clear plastic cellophane and it all added up to something just a little bit magical. Maybe it's the curse if aging but that magic seems to be something they don't care to create anymore. There's no metal tracks like real train tracks have, only a toy. There's no big yellow operators dial, only a little remote with a cheap little grey button to click. There's no well thought out scenes of these trains in a living world of creativity, only a too brightly lit and somewhat sterile picture of a toy train. There's no lifting the lid on the box to be able to see all the actual pieces you could buy, take home and play with, just a boring cereal box for your £200 set, and maybe a built copy of the model in the shop behind glass which you can never touch. A big dial may not seem like something you'd miss, or metal on the tracks, or the packaging of the mid 90s, but it adds up. It's not something you can explain but what of that magic you felt as a kid do the penny pinchers have a formula or a pie chart for anyway?

I don't think the issue is a lack of train offerings. We got new PU train a couple years back, from memory we seem to get the same passenger and freight combo every few years as always, plus a few additional more adult aimed locos thrown in. Such feelings appear more symptomatic of a deeper issue.  What does "for adults" even mean to Lego cos I'm not quite sure. The Titanic? Yes for sure I get why that is for adults. But a 6 wide loco with no carriages, why exactly is that for adults? Is it because a loco on its own is too boring for kids, is that what "for adults" means in this case, boring?!

What would I love to see as an adult? Some of the magic I felt as a kid!

1) Metal tracks, just like a real train. The metal track system might even be cheaper to make than all this PU stuff!

2) A big controller with a big dial or lever, one that's powered from a wall plug so no need for batteries. Make it feel like a train you OPERATE, not simply play with.

3) No more cereal boxes. These are expensive and even somewhat luxury toys that deserves to be shown off and celebrated, not stuffed in a cheap cereal box. You might say the box is not that important, but a sheet of clear cellophane and a vacuum formed tray isn't exactly expensive. I got an Easter egg the other day, and it had the outer box, a cellophane window, a vacuum formed tray, a separate tray for the added chocolates, and it just felt like the manufacturer cared. Yes, I know it's meaningless packaging, but I am a humble human and it brings that bit of magic to me. Surely a £200 Lego set deserves, and would benefit from, just as much of a celebration of its content from its packaging than a £10 chocolate egg! Let me lift the lid to see the tracks, the motor, the big speed dial and all the pieces I can take home with me!

4) Add on sets. I don't mean the too many sets of the overblown my train era. But let's get a decently sized and detailed station (not just a platform with a bicycle), extra train cars, and a level crossing.

5) More track elements like larger track radii and light up signals. Then use these elements to build up much larger city scenes in the catalogues with different sets and stuff, let the imagination go wild with all the possibilities.

To my mind it's these things that are missing. Right now Lego offers just a toy in a cereal box with a clear and bright, but also lifeless and sterile picture on the box. That's just the bare minimum offering of a toy from a corporation. I know that's the reality but Lego is more expensive than most other toys from most other corporations so I really think it needs to work harder on bringing the magic back as well. 

If they wanted to try something really radical, how does a roughly Titanic sized working air powered Flying Scotsman sound? Surely that would sell lots of copies yes?

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31 minutes ago, allanp said:

When I think back to being a kid in the 9v era of trains (with the metal covered train tracks) I remember you could get a metroliner train and there was a pretty sweet yellow station you could get and an extra double decker carriage (although just an extra regular carriage same as in the metroliner set would also have been great) and you could set the speed with a big yellow dial and there was catalogues with well thought out scenes of these trains going to various places and then you could go to the toy shop and see these huge train sets and you could lift the lid and stare and all the lovely pieces through the clear plastic cellophane and it all added up to something just a little bit magical. Maybe it's the curse if aging but that magic seems to be something they don't care to create anymore. There's no metal tracks like real train tracks have, only a toy. There's no big yellow operators dial, only a little remote with a cheap little grey button to click. There's no well thought out scenes of these trains in a living world of creativity, only a too brightly lit and somewhat sterile picture of a toy train. There's no lifting the lid on the box to be able to see all the actual pieces you could buy, take home and play with, just a boring cereal box for your £200 set, and maybe a built copy of the model in the shop behind glass which you can never touch. A big dial may not seem like something you'd miss, or metal on the tracks, or the packaging of the mid 90s, but it adds up. It's not something you can explain but what of that magic you felt as a kid do the penny pinchers have a formula or a pie chart for anyway?

I don't think the issue is a lack of train offerings. We got new PU train a couple years back, from memory we seem to get the same passenger and freight combo every few years as always, plus a few additional more adult aimed locos thrown in. Such feelings appear more symptomatic of a deeper issue.  What does "for adults" even mean to Lego cos I'm not quite sure. The Titanic? Yes for sure I get why that is for adults. But a 6 wide loco with no carriages, why exactly is that for adults? Is it because a loco on its own is too boring for kids, is that what "for adults" means in this case, boring?!

What would I love to see as an adult? Some of the magic I felt as a kid!

1) Metal tracks, just like a real train. The metal track system might even be cheaper to make than all this PU stuff!

2) A big controller with a big dial or lever, one that's powered from a wall plug so no need for batteries. Make it feel like a train you OPERATE, not simply play with.

3) No more cereal boxes. These are expensive and even somewhat luxury toys that deserves to be shown off and celebrated, not stuffed in a cheap cereal box. You might say the box is not that important, but a sheet of clear cellophane and a vacuum formed tray isn't exactly expensive. I got an Easter egg the other day, and it had the outer box, a cellophane window, a vacuum formed tray, a separate tray for the added chocolates, and it just felt like the manufacturer cared. Yes, I know it's meaningless packaging, but I am a humble human and it brings that bit of magic to me. Surely a £200 Lego set deserves, and would benefit from, just as much of a celebration of its content from its packaging than a £10 chocolate egg! Let me lift the lid to see the tracks, the motor, the big speed dial and all the pieces I can take home with me!

4) Add on sets. I don't mean the too many sets of the overblown my train era. But let's get a decently sized and detailed station (not just a platform with a bicycle), extra train cars, and a level crossing.

5) More track elements like larger track radii and light up signals. Then use these elements to build up much larger city scenes in the catalogues with different sets and stuff, let the imagination go wild with all the possibilities.

To my mind it's these things that are missing. Right now Lego offers just a toy in a cereal box with a clear and bright, but also lifeless and sterile picture on the box. That's just the bare minimum offering of a toy from a corporation. I know that's the reality but Lego is more expensive than most other toys from most other corporations so I really think it needs to work harder on bringing the magic back as well. 

If they wanted to try something really radical, how does a roughly Titanic sized working air powered Flying Scotsman sound? Surely that would sell lots of copies yes?

IIRC a big part of the reason 9V tracks with exposed metal rails went away had to do with evolving toy safety standards and requirements. Current regulations in the U.S. at least bar the use of live electrical components that are not sealed in protective plastic, which would include 9V powered rails. I guess Lego could possibly return to offering metal-sheathed rails WITHOUT having them be powered (maintaining battery powered trains on metal tracks), but doing so would be a pretty big expense for a mere cosmetic upgrade—not a recipe for success for an already expensive range of products.

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