10305 Lion Knights' Castle 90th anniversary set

[eldiano]

I’m still confused on why lego thought it was a good idea to sell forest men sets as Robin Hood 🤣

looking back at the silly names, you can’t lie that Ghost’s castle was boss for the time period 😍

[Aanchir]

2 hours ago, SirBlake said:

Yes, but it's location (the hideout) and how it relates to the rest of the castle was kind of a secret. The image showing the trap door kind of spilled the beans on that part. I do think there are going to be more than a couple details that we'll really only see, or at least, have a more complete understanding of, once we build it. For instance, we don't truly understand how the secret entrance by the tree connects, if at all, to the rest of the castle. Presumably it connects to that jail cell under there, but I haven't seen photos that can confirm that. 

I can maybe give you a partial answer to some of these questions!

• The sliding stone door to the right of the big tree does indeed connect to the inside of one of the dungeon cells! So in that regard, it's not a secret entrance, but rather a secret exit for forest people who've already been captured by the Lion Knights. I was only able to figure this out by turning up my screen brightness all the way while looking at these two images (the masonry bricks on the right wall of the left-hand dungeon cell in the first image can also be seen behind the forestwoman in the second
   
• The larger, hinged stone door to the left of the big tree opens into a carvern which is enclosed on every side, and doesn't appear to connect to the rest of the castle at all as far as I can tell — unless there's an opening in the top to connect it to the stable. The only contents of this cavern that I've been able to identify via the LEGOcon video and the images linked above are a sword clipped to the wall on the left of the cave entrance, and a barrel against the wall to the right of the cave entrance. If there is any way up to the gatehouse above, such as a ladder, it'd be against the wall furthest from the cave entrance, which I still haven't gotten a good look at in any of the pics or videos so far.

Some other fun details I've spotted that aren't too obvious in most pics and videos:

• Right by the corner where you'd turn left as you climb the stairs from the kitchen to the walkway above (at the base of one of the two bastions along the castle's front wall), there is a Medium Stone Grey 3x3x2 round element which I at first thought was meant to be a large cooking pot for the kitchen, but which I now realize is probably a well/cistern to supply the castle with fresh water.
   
• The tower immediately next to the "playroom" is actually a bell tower! The bell is built using an upside-down Warm Gold 2x2 inverted dome which can be dimly seen through the windows in some of the pictures, such as the back view image linked above.
   
• The garderobe features a 1x1 round brick in white, which I assume represents an anachronistic roll of toilet paper (just as in 31120) to help signal the room's purpose to builders more clearly. But there is also a clip on a wall holding a more realistic leafy branch that would have been the more historically acccurate solution for those same — uh, hygienic needs — in medieval times! It's built from a short Brick Yellow plant stem and a Bright Green 1x1 flower plate. This is most visible in the  360-degree spin video from LEGO.com
   
• The forest people's hideout not only connects to the castle marketplace above via a trapdoor, but also to the outside of the castle via a tunnel mouth to the left of the drawbridge. The mouth of this tunnel is most clearly visible in the 360-degree spin video linked above, or in the Assembled designer interview video during some of the moments when the set is being turned around (as in most of the official images it's obscured by the walkway up to the drawbridge). There is a small oubliette-style window in the back of the skeleton's prison cell that looks out into the tunnel. Too bad they didn't have any friends on the outside to come to their aid like the forest people do!
   
• The back wall of the forest people's hideout in this image? That's actually the kitchen's left wall, viewed from the opposite side! The brown plate you can just barely see peeking out from behind the candle on the right-hand side is the 2x4 plate used for the shelf below the two hanging pretzels!

Still a fair amount I haven't figured out yet, including stuff I probably won't find out until the set is released and the instructions are posted online — most significantly, the specifics of the drawbridge mechanism. But it's a fascinating set, and I'm very pleased with how much the designers were able to pack into the space available!

[SirBlake]

@Aanchir thanks for the thorough description of your findings. Certainly some details I hadn’t discovered. Can’t wait to build this thing!

[MAB]

7 hours ago, eldiano said:

I’m still confused on why lego thought it was a good idea to sell forest men sets as Robin Hood 🤣

 

It was at a time when LEGO marketing was very regional. Much of the world did not have Robin Hood LEGO, just forestmen. Some adverts and printed media in some locations referred to the leader of the forestmen as Robin or Robin Hood, presumably to try to get some implied storyline where customers might not engage with the sets. It might also have been because Playmobil had recently (late 70s and early 80s) had a lot of success with Robin Hood and castle playsets and LEGO were trying to copy their approach.

[Rattlebricks]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

It was at a time when LEGO marketing was very regional. Much of the world did not have Robin Hood LEGO, just forestmen. Some adverts and printed media in some locations referred to the leader of the forestmen as Robin or Robin Hood, presumably to try to get some implied storyline where customers might not engage with the sets. It might also have been because Playmobil had recently (late 70s and early 80s) had a lot of success with Robin Hood and castle playsets and LEGO were trying to copy their approach.

Im in Asia and I remember the Dragon knight wizard is called Merlin in the catalog instead of Majisto, and I had no idea until years later that he's called Majisto in other places 

[MAB]

2 hours ago, Rattlebricks said:

Im in Asia and I remember the Dragon knight wizard is called Merlin in the catalog instead of Majisto, and I had no idea until years later that he's called Majisto in other places 

That is a bit mixed up! Merlin coming from Authurian legends (approx 500 AD) whereas Robin Hood was based on folklore from much later (~1200 AD).

After a while they just become generic names used to suggest a type of character, so a wizard called Merlin, an outlaw called Robin Hood, without necessarily telling the story. If LEGO meant him to be Robin Hood, why was there no Marion or Sheriff of Nottingham for the rest of the story? Just like I probably wouldn't notice if they did a Money King set with a Jade Rabbit and a White Snake. Totally different Chinese legends but mix them all up to use myth to suggest character types.

[TeriXeri]

LEGO also named the wizard from Nexo Knights Merlok 2.0 and the minifig version that came with a book was a blue wizard with white beard.

Merlok is much closer to Merlin then Majisto.

Also the same theme had a robot with a forestmen outfit (even a 1x1 printed tile logo), called Robot Hoodlum.

 

UK catalog has the 1993 Wizard named Merlin.

6020: Magic Shop  = Merlin the Wizard 

6048: Majisto's Magical Workshop = Merlin's Workshop

https://images.brickset.com/library/view/?f=catalogues/c93uk2

 

Then a Dutch catalog names the Wizard Pokus, and the workshop Hokus  

Hokus Pokus is reference to a magic spell.

 

Swiss catalog just calls it Wizard, no specific name in multiple languages.

 

Another polybag variant of the wizard cart calls it Wiz the Wizard 

Edited July 6, 2022 by TeriXeri

[woodford86]

I’m fairly certain the lego flyers they used to include in sets called the forestmen Robin Hood back around 1990, but I always remembered the wizard being Majisto. Probably because Majisto’s Workshop came out when I was just getting started. (In Canada)

Edited July 6, 2022 by woodford86

[TeriXeri]

1988 UK catalog has Robin Hood in 3 set names:

6103 Robin with Friends and Foes

6054 Robin Hood's Tree Hideaway

6066 Robin Hood's Secret Cave

https://images.brickset.com/library/view/?f=catalogues/c88uk

1990 UK catalog calls the theme Robin Hood specificly , and also adds 6077 to yet another Robin hood set name Robin's Lake Stronghold

https://images.brickset.com/library/catalogues/c90uk.pdf

 

Belgium catalog from 1988 calls it 6054 Robin's hideout in dutch and french.

https://images.brickset.com/library/view/?f=catalogues/c88be

In dutch , the Faction is called Vrijbuiters, which basicly means looters, which fits with the whole robin hood look and theme, and UK calls the figures outlaws.

 

Forestmen seems mainly the American name

 

In a time before internet , Regional marketing was all over the place for sure, I personally knew the LEGO sets only from the paper catalogs or store visits.

Catalogs also differ per region as seen by brickset, some earlier catalogs had prices, and names, some just had names, and later ones didn't even have set names at all.

Set names also weren't a thing on a box either.

Larger sets also contained smaller mini catalogs or flyers.

 

In context to 10305, I think it's great to have secret entrance and hideout incorporated into the set as it fits really well with the outlaw/bandit nature of the faction, even outside of Robin Hood naming conventions, which also makes the Black color of the trees a lot more fitting as a homage to the theme.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by TeriXeri

[Rattlebricks]

1 hour ago, TeriXeri said:

1988 UK catalog has Robin Hood in 3 set names:

6103 Robin with Friends and Foes

6054 Robin Hood's Tree Hideaway

6066 Robin Hood's Secret Cave

https://images.brickset.com/library/view/?f=catalogues/c88uk

1990 UK catalog calls the theme Robin Hood specificly , and also adds 6077 to yet another Robin hood set name Robin's Lake Stronghold

https://images.brickset.com/library/catalogues/c90uk.pdf

 

Belgium catalog from 1988 calls it 6054 Robin's hideout in dutch and french.

https://images.brickset.com/library/view/?f=catalogues/c88be

In dutch , the Faction is called Vrijbuiters, which basicly means looters, which fits with the whole robin hood look and theme, and UK calls the figures outlaws.

 

Forestmen seems mainly the American name

 

In a time before internet , Regional marketing was all over the place for sure, I personally knew the LEGO sets only from the paper catalogs or store visits.

Catalogs also differ per region as seen by brickset, some earlier catalogs had prices, and names, some just had names, and later ones didn't even have set names at all.

Set names also weren't a thing on a box either.

Larger sets also contained smaller mini catalogs or flyers.

 

In context to 10305, I think it's great to have secret entrance and hideout incorporated into the set as it fits really well with the outlaw/bandit nature of the faction, even outside of Robin Hood naming conventions, which also makes the Black color of the trees a lot more fitting as a homage to the theme.

 

The more recent  mention of Robin Hood would be in the first Lego movie where Vitruvius refers the forestman cmf as Robin Hood.

[TeriXeri]

12 minutes ago, Rattlebricks said:

The more recent  mention of Robin Hood would be in the first Lego movie where Vitruvius refers the forestman cmf as Robin Hood.

And this figure from 2017 (Robot Hoodlum)

Same set has a small tree with a hidden crate to store things (description even names it forest hideout)

Edited July 6, 2022 by TeriXeri

[SirBlake]

1 minute ago, TeriXeri said:

and this figure from 2017 (Robot Hoodlum)

Same set has a small tree with a hidden crate to store things.

I know you have a soft spot for Nexo, and I have a lot of respect for you and your presence on this forum, so please don't take it as disrespect when I say that I (and probably most of us here) don't consider anything that has to do with Nexo Knights relating to real castle. Though I wouldn't mind having some of those forestmen shield 1x1 tiles just for fun. lol

[TeriXeri]

22 minutes ago, SirBlake said:

I know you have a soft spot for Nexo, and I have a lot of respect for you and your presence on this forum, so please don't take it as disrespect when I say that I (and probably most of us here) don't consider anything that has to do with Nexo Knights relating to real castle. Though I wouldn't mind having some of those forestmen shield 1x1 tiles just for fun. lol

I wasn't trying to link nexo to Castle universe/theme (there's 2 sets I consider Castles, the rest are vehicles and monsters), just saying it was the most recent robin hood reference LEGO has made, in loose relation to forestmen , which again was very regional in the 80s/90s catalogs.

I would never say that AFOL , Castle fans etc would have to consider Nexo as a Castle theme.

I consider it standalone, not part of the Castle universe/canon, an alternate universe/timeline is probably best description for it.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by TeriXeri

[SirBlake]

5 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

I wasn't trying to link nexo to Castle universe/theme (there's 2 sets I consider Castles, the rest are vehicles and monsters), just saying it was the most recent robin hood reference LEGO has made, in loose relation to forestmen , which again was very regional in the 80s/90s catalogs.

I would never say that AFOL , Castle fans etc would have to consider Nexo as a Castle theme.

I consider it standalone, not part of the Castle universe, an alternate universe/timeline is probably best description for it.

Fair enough. :)

[TeriXeri]

6 minutes ago, SirBlake said:

Fair enough. :)

I'm going a bit off topic, but yeah , LEGO loves cross-references, themes like Hidden Side, Monkie Kid referenced themes like Bionicle, Znap etc as well, City had multiple Ninjago video games as video game-screens in more recent sets, Friends and City trains and airplanes have HLC-LCI / LCC-HLC destinations , City Stuntz has Rocket Racer from LEGO racers video game etc.

Edited July 6, 2022 by TeriXeri

[Triceron]

I was disappointed they didn't use more names in their themes.  The Royal Knights' King never got a proper name to my knowledge, yet they named Majisto in the prior theme and Basil and Willa in the theme that came after.  Always felt odd to me that the King didn't get one.

[TeriXeri]

20 minutes ago, Triceron said:

I was disappointed they didn't use more names in their themes.  The Royal Knights' King never got a proper name to my knowledge, yet they named Majisto in the prior theme and Basil and Willa in the theme that came after.  Always felt odd to me that the King didn't get one.

I only looked it up now,  but in a UK 1995 and 1996 catalog on brickset,  that king is named King Richard the Lion Heart. 

LEGO wise, the first lion knights were sometimes called Crusaders, and the first castle after yellow Castle was King's Castle / Castle Lion.

1995 lion knights were called Royal Knights, and in real life King Richard 1 did indeed go on a Crusade when he was a King, and his legacy of the 3 lions is still there today in the Royal arms of england, and the national soccer team etc. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by TeriXeri

[SirBlake]

49 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

I'm going a bit off topic, but yeah , LEGO loves cross-references, themes like Hidden Side, Monkie Kid referenced themes like Bionicle, Znap etc as well, City had multiple Ninjago video games as video game-screens in more recent sets, Friends and City trains and airplanes have HLC-LCI / LCC-HLC destinations , City Stuntz has Rocket Racer from LEGO racers video game etc.

Yeah, those kinds of crossovers are fun.

 

As far as official names for characters in old castle themes, I never really cared about that stuff, and don't really care now. In general, the more character driven the theme, the less I tend to like it. (KKII for example) The sets themselves inspire enough story telling to be fun.

[TeriXeri]

5 hours ago, SirBlake said:

As far as official names for characters in old castle themes, I never really cared about that stuff, and don't really care now. In general, the more character driven the theme, the less I tend to like it. (KKII for example) The sets themselves inspire enough story telling to be fun.

Agree, and especially the 80s, 90s themes/sets were very regionally different in names given. and the small catalogs had no names listed.

This is how I imagine it, nothing canon but just based on various different regional names and such : 

I'd like to imagine that the first Crusader/Lion Knight are related to the 1995 knights as one an the same faction, maybe a split-off from a group that sailed/rowed off in the various boats.

Also the early links to Vikings with their boats named differently in various country catalogs.

The Black Falcons were called Black Knights in some catalogs as well (before 1989), which makes sense on some of their figures and bardings, I'd like to imagine that there was some split-off into Black monarch that started their own faction.

And then 1993 Dragon Knights use a very similar heraldry and helm plumes as the Black Knights, either in a fantasy universe with dragons/wizards, or just as a successor/crossover (1995 Royal Drawbridge has a dragon knight that uses a blue-printed Black Knight shield).

Edited July 6, 2022 by TeriXeri

[Triceron]

58 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

I'm going a bit off topic, but yeah , LEGO loves cross-references, themes like Hidden Side, Monkie Kid referenced themes like Bionicle, Znap etc as well, City had multiple Ninjago video games as video game-screens in more recent sets, Friends and City trains and airplanes have HLC-LCI / LCC-HLC destinations , City Stuntz has Rocket Racer from LEGO racers video game etc.

Yeah, they do it a lot in the TV shows too.  In the seasons of Ninjago that I worked on, they brought back Clutch Powers, and threw in an easter egg with some Beaver dudes from Chima into an episode.

[eldiano]

I’m sooo confused, I thought this was the Queen’s Castle, I know it’s been rumored to be Lion Knight’s Castle but LEGO updated it on their website finally and it’s Lion Knight’s Castle, THE WHOLE TIME I WAS SEARCHING FOR QUEEN haha

 

https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/lion-knights-castle-10305

VIP will be early august with the general release August 8th

[Rattlebricks]

5 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

And this figure from 2017 (Robot Hoodlum)

Same set has a small tree with a hidden crate to store things (description even names it forest hideout)

Oh I actually bought this set just for the hoodlum tile & hat and sold the rest lol. The deer insignia is too cool 

[Follows Closely]

www.brickset.com posted a review of 497 Galaxy Explorer in which they said:

Quote

In preparation for our review of 10497 Galaxy Explorer which we'll be publishing next week, I borrowed the original spaceship from local Brickset member...

If brickset is posting a review of 10497 next week, it is only logical to assume that we will be getting a review of 10305 as soon as next week!

[SirBlake]

1 hour ago, Follows Closely said:

www.brickset.com posted a review of 497 Galaxy Explorer in which they said:

If brickset is posting a review of 10497 next week, it is only logical to assume that we will be getting a review of 10305 as soon as next week!

That’d be nice!

[Roebuck]

3 hours ago, Follows Closely said:

www.brickset.com posted a review of 497 Galaxy Explorer in which they said:

If brickset is posting a review of 10497 next week, it is only logical to assume that we will be getting a review of 10305 as soon as next week!

Yes I noticed that as well, could be sooner than later then