10305 Lion Knights' Castle 90th anniversary set

[Poco Lypso]

3 hours ago, SirBlake said:

Good points, and I agree with everything except Lego castle not being the most important thing, lol. Waiting my whole life for a castle like this, so there was nothing that was going to keep me from getting this set ASAP. 

I do have a question though. When you say “IMO, it’s the hefty price tag”. While we can agree this thing is expensive, I’m having a hard time determining what the “it” is. When you say it’s expensive, what conclusion are you leading to with that? Are you saying that you think it’s not selling well based on anecdotal facebook evidence? If so, I get that, but I think that’s a self-fulfilling thing, because anytime you’re talking about an expensive set, you’re going to see a ton of comments where people are saying they like it but it’s too expensive. 

Huh? Is this a serious question? 

[SirBlake]

2 minutes ago, Poco Lypso said:

Huh? Is this a serious question? 

Yes. 

[Poco Lypso]

2 minutes ago, SirBlake said:

Yes. 

But what is your issue? 

[SirBlake]

7 minutes ago, Poco Lypso said:

But what is your issue? 

Sorry, I know it’s hard to sort out. When you say “it’s the expense”, the implication is, the “it’s” is pointing to a problem. Are you saying the problem is you think sales are low? And the expense is the reason? 

Using Facebook as anecdotal evidence that people are liking it but not purchasing because of the price makes sense, but it also makes sense to me that this is a problem for every $400 set.

I’m just trying to get to the bottom of this assumption that sales are unexpectedly low, and if that’s the case, what that assumption is based on. Ultimately, it is my opinion that there’s no way to accurately know if that’s the case, and therefore any assumption one way or the other is lacking any tangible data to back it up, making it a moot point. 

[Poco Lypso]

13 minutes ago, SirBlake said:

Sorry, I know it’s hard to sort out. When you say “it’s the expense”, the implication is, the “it’s” is pointing to a problem. Are you saying the problem is you think sales are low? And the expense is the reason? 

Using Facebook as anecdotal evidence that people are liking it but not purchasing because of the price makes sense, but it also makes sense to me that this is a problem for every $400 set.

I’m just trying to get to the bottom of this assumption that sales are unexpectedly low, and if that’s the case, what that assumption is based on. Ultimately, it is my opinion that there’s no way to accurately know if that’s the case, and therefore any assumption one way or the other is lacking any tangible data to back it up, making it a moot point. 

well, technically everything is an assumption.

what we know so far is

a) the set didn't sell out

b) lego increased the purchase limit per customer 

the assumption is, it didn't sell so well.

but already here we don't have any data to back it up. sets sold out in the past. were hard to get for a while. we don't really know why, maybe it was because of covid and lego wasn't able to produce as many as they had wanted?

Maybe lego has managed to increase production in the meantime or even prioritized production of the 10305 because its an anniversary set. And maybe they have received more batches in the meantime and could increase the purchase limit without the risk of having the product sold out and some unhappy customers.

When I said 'its the hefty price tag" that was solely my assumption, my opinion. 'it' standing for: the reason why I didn't sell out, etc.

despite this being the major reason IMO, even I could think of lots of other reasons why it may not have sold so well. but again, we don't really know if it didn't sell well, we just know its not sold out.

[eric_son_of_joseph]

1 hour ago, Poco Lypso said:

what we know so far is

a) the set didn't sell out

b) lego increased the purchase limit per customer 

the assumption is, it didn't sell so well.

Or, it's still available because people just aren't into the castle theme these days.  Whatever the reason, the fact that 10305 is available for purchase is good for those who want to buy it. 

[GeoBrick]

8 minutes ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

Or, it's still available because people just aren't into the castle theme these days.  Whatever the reason, the fact that 10305 is available for purchase is good for those who want to buy it. 

On the other hand, the Bricklink Designer Program set "Castle in the Forest" was sold out in barely half an hour. And quite an uproar of disappointed would-be buyers followed close on the heels of it being sold out.

[natesroom]

how many did they sell?

[Poco Lypso]

50 minutes ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

Or, it's still available because people just aren't into the castle theme these days.  Whatever the reason, the fact that 10305 is available for purchase is good for those who want to buy it. 

I would imagine it might not be up high on childrens wishlist. 

40 minutes ago, GeoBrick said:

On the other hand, the Bricklink Designer Program set "Castle in the Forest" was sold out in barely half an hour. And quite an uproar of disappointed would-be buyers followed close on the heels of it being sold out.

But that was severely limited in number. Think it didnt surpass 10k copies. 

[Black Feather]

Maybe not correct to assume it’s doing poorly because it didn’t sell out online after two weeks.  After all it seems like they were trying hard to make it not sell out quickly.  When they had it at a limit of one it was the only set on the site with a limit of one.  They release the GWP two days before it came out when they had to know the GWP would sell out quickly online based on their stock and all the sets coming out August 1.  That actually changed my original plan to buy one in store and one online for two GWP.  I went to the store and got one set with the GWP.  I planned to sneak back and get another set with GWP at the store but both were sold out when I called ahead.  The store restocked the castle but I am waiting now like a lot of other people for a better incentive.  Impossible to judge how well it’s doing at this point, since we don’t know how many they were expecting to sell by now.  It could be as well or better than expected.  They just produced enough this time, which is a good thing.

[SirBlake]

4 hours ago, Poco Lypso said:

well, technically everything is an assumption…we don't really know if it didn't sell well, we just know its not sold out.

Thanks for putting up with my PITA question, lol. It’s appreciated. I think we are more or less aligned, with the main difference being that I’m really not giving much credibility to the notion that it hasn’t sold well because of the aforementioned dearth of information. 

55 minutes ago, Black Feather said:

Impossible to judge how well it’s doing at this point, since we don’t know how many they were expecting to sell by now.  It could be as well or better than expected.  They just produced enough this time, which is a good thing.

Yup, that’s where I am with this. 

[RichardGoring]

The Bricklink Designer Program Castle in the Forest sold 10,000 sets in about 30 minutes. Although it was also less than half the price of 10305.

On the increase in purchase limit for 10305, remember, that is only in the US. In Europe it started at three and has stayed at three.

[Follows Closely]

I think I prefer The Castle in the Forest over 10305. I definitely prefer two Forest over 10305.

https://brickset.com/sets/910001-1/Castle-in-the-Forest

[Sir Dano]

The minifigures in that set are terrible, I'll stick with my 10305.

[natesroom]

38 minutes ago, Follows Closely said:

I think I prefer The Castle in the Forest over 10305. I definitely prefer two Forest over 10305.

https://brickset.com/sets/910001-1/Castle-in-the-Forest

 

23 minutes ago, Sir Dano said:

The minifigures in that set are terrible, I'll stick with my 10305.

It would have been $360 for 3900 pieces (which is 600 less then 10305) 12 Minis vs 21 (not counting the skeleton). Its about the same piece price point. So i'd go with 10305

also i guarantee they reissue black falcons for 69.99 they would sell out in 30 minutes also. I'd buy 5

Edited August 21, 2022 by natesroom

[jodawill]

I don't see the appeal of that Castle in the Forest set personally. It looks like a big mess to me. It just looks like they tool someone's MOC and said, "Here's the product!"

I'm not completely sure that 10305 is better than Black Knights Castle, but I like it infinitely better than any of the other castle stuff made recently (the 3 in 1, Castle in the Forest, and the blacksmith shop).

 Now that I've had it for a while, I think the only thing that I really feel sad about is the lack of accompanying sets. I wish they had made it a standard modular design and released half a dozen add on sets at the same time like they used to.

 I'm pretty pleased with the minifigures in this set, but I really hope we get some more interesting plumes in the near future. We were really fortunate to have such a large variety in the '90s with all of the special shapes. There are currently no plumes in production to go into the sides of the visors, which I think is really sad. This set is fine without them, but I sure would like to see them return. I really want Black Knights 2.0 with totally decked out knights.

I experimented today with making a black knight with the new visor and armor. I prefer the original, but the new colors make acceptable black knights if you put the visor on a black helmet and use a black torso and legs. Of course, we still don't have a reissue of the dragon shield, so you'd either have to buy old ones or create a new faction from one of the extra shields in 10305. I'll have to pull them all out and see which one looks best with a black knight.

[qbrick]

What I found odd about 10305 on Bricklink, was I was expecting a huge amount of quantity to change hands based on the enormous hype and anticipation - only 36 units of 10305 have been sold on Bricklink, I was expecting it to be pretty much sold out, and I can see units on the shelf in my local lego store for sale.

 

The most surprising thing about the Lion Knights minifigures from this set is how so few of them quantity wise have made it on to bricklink - I was expecting a huge quantity of the Lion Knights minifigs to hit inventory at high prices, but its really only been very small quantities available in small bundles, maybe 1 unit to 9 units per seller.

 

Maybe only around 400 Lion Knights have sold total on Bricklink - I was expecting the demand to be much higher - nearly 23,000 units of Black Falcons minifigs have been sold, including torsos - so I don't know why lego would make the Lion Knights so limited, given that they are still relatively cheap per minifig.

Edited August 21, 2022 by qbrick

[Sir Dano]

Personally I'd rather wait until PaB adds them, the prices they want for lion knights on bricklink right now is way too high for my taste.

[timemail]

On 8/20/2022 at 3:23 AM, Triceron said:

Color me curious on how many people there are here who are actively interested in buying this set, but holding off because of *cough* price *cough* reasons.

The Forestmen Hideout GWP still indicates a very high demand for Castle sets to me,  I think the lack of sales is literally due to people (like me) who are holding off.

I only ever buy from Lego.com or the local Lego certified stores if they have a good GWP or double VIP points. Everything else I buy through local retailers who have discounts. Basically direct from Lego I only buy the Winter Village set and very occasionally another set (or PaB etc.) to get a GWP.
My understanding is this set will only be available through Lego.com and certified stores (according to an Aussie business who sells Lego sets) so I will be buying multiple copies, but only when there is a sweetener for me. My first copy I purchased when the Lego certified store had 11021 90 Years of Play as a GWP on Lego's anniversary (10th Aug?), and will wait for similar over its life to get more. I plan to get about 4 of these, as I have no other castle sets beyond 2 x forestmen GWP, 1 x Blacksmith, 4 x 3-in-1 castle, and a few bricks from PaB, and figures from BAM.

If the Forestmen GWP was available with this set I would likely have bought 2 or 3 of them at that time to get the GWP.

This is the first time castle has been available since I started collecting Lego (about 2016) and since I didn't have Lego as a kid this is the only stuff I have to build castle from so need multiples.

 

On the discussions others are having re the sale or lack of sale in this set - I would note from my experience (I have biases about sets and times I buy so this is only as I see it) Lego.com AU site had MANY sets selling out quickly over the last couple of years and many out of stocks. Over the past few months this does not seem to be the case as much (it is still there but less) and potentially any production issues, or excess demand issues, are being resolved. Not selling out may simply be a case of this reduction in issues with producing enough sets, or reduction in demand for Lego overall, rather than an issue with this particular set. It could also indicate that Lego did not want a flagship 90th Anniversary set to sell out so they deliberately over produced in the short term knowing it would sell in the long term and avoiding the potential backlash they receive over sellouts recently.

Complaints about costs of sets abound at the moment on most sets, and while I agree this is a massive price point and could have been lower, it doesn't necessarily reflect this set itself is selling less than any of the other sets in the similar price point. I do wish they had more affordable sets at the same time though. I am extremely disappointed that the GWP was not a retail set as I would have liked a lot of copies of it. Fingers crossed for the figs being released in Pick and Build as I will buy multiples from there instead.

[Rjbricks]

I don’t think we can compare sets of yesteryear to a set that’s selling right now. It does feel people are making these considerations in a vacuum.

US consumer confidence is at its lowest since February last year (when Lego was benefiting from the pandemic) and it’s the same picture across Europe. 
 

Considering here in the UK a third of households are heading for energy poverty by the end of the year (my annual bill will be $5,000) per year, it’s not surprising that a luxury item for a luxury toy isn’t flying out of the stores. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Rjbricks

[Poco Lypso]

6 hours ago, Sir Dano said:

The minifigures in that set are terrible, I'll stick with my 10305.

Thats the reason why I didn't buy it. 

4 hours ago, Sir Dano said:

Personally I'd rather wait until PaB adds them, the prices they want for lion knights on bricklink right now is way too high for my taste.

Exactly! Let's not give lego false ideas :) 

[qbrick]

That's what I was trying to understand - why there was 23,000 Black Falcons sold on bricklink and only 400 Lion Knight sold on bricklink.

 

Were the black falcon minifigs on Pick a Brick at some point, or were there just thousands of 3-in1 creator castles that were parted out.  I was expecting that there would have been a few thousand Lion Knights on bricklink by now, but it seems even after the inventory was approved, there are only a handful of sellers globally of Lion Knights.

Edited August 21, 2022 by qbrick

[Rjbricks]

Yes, they were. After medieval blacksmith came out. PAB kept selling out but they were available.

[timemail]

12 minutes ago, qbrick said:

That's what I was trying to understand - why there was 23,000 Black Falcons sold on bricklink and only 400 Lion Knight sold on bricklink.

 

Were the black falcon minifigs on Pick a Brick at some point, or were there just thousands of 3-in1 creator castles that were parted out.  I was expecting that there would have been a few thousand Lion Knights on bricklink by now, but it seems even after the inventory was approved, there are only a handful of sellers globally of Lion Knights.

Yep. They were available on Pick a Brick for a cheap price. I bought about 30 of them with no issues. They are also available in cheaper sets which were sold with discounts vs. a new exclusive set. People could order then 200 at a time from BaP (as it was then). They were on and off of availability for quite a while and there were plenty of opportunities to buy them (although not always all pieces at the same time).
When the Blacksmith was first released they were expensive at Bricklink as well, but the price came down a bit when they became readily available. You also pay about a quarter of the Bricklink price on PaB and can order a lot more at once instead of piecemeal from many stores.

Edited August 21, 2022 by timemail

[iragm]

6 hours ago, jodawill said:

I don't see the appeal of that Castle in the Forest set personally. It looks like a big mess to me. It just looks like they tool someone's MOC and said, "Here's the product!"

I wasn't too keen on it until I inventoried it, and realized I could build it for $70 worth of extra parts, so I did.  It's incredible, arguably the best build I've ever done.  The back side is underwhelming, but the detailing on the front side is better even than 10305.  The use of dark tan and dark blueish gray really help it feel more textured and life-like, and all the trees provide a lot more visual interest than the gray walls of 10305.  I'm not saying it's perfect -- the minifigures are awful (I didn't buy them, I have it displayed with a few old school forestmen instead) and there's a few parts that aren't quite well enough attached.  But it really is an amazing build.

6 hours ago, qbrick said:

 

Maybe only around 400 Lion Knights have sold total on Bricklink - I was expecting the demand to be much higher - nearly 23,000 units of Black Falcons minifigs have been sold, including torsos - so I don't know why lego would make the Lion Knights so limited, given that they are still relatively cheap per minifig.

This is because there is (was) a purchase limit of 1.  Most people are buying the set direct from Lego, and most folks are excited about the new figures, so they want to keep them.  The only folks reselling the minifigures are those who want to make MOCs or bring the price of the castle down by selling off parts of it.  If Lego sells out, you can bet the bricklink volume of 10305 will spike.

By comparison, as others have said, the black falcons have been on PAB for a while, allowing resellers to purchase stockpiles of them.  They're now out of stock on PAB, so people have to turn to bricklink for army building.