[CADA] CADA General Discussion Topic

[thekoRngear]

The top steering also seems fine when the car is stand still. The sideview mirrors do move smoothly when the doors are opened/closed (13:21-13:24) 

The rest- it seems the 20t knobs require too much turning.

[LvdH]

Ordered last week on September 1st, delivered today. From some warehouse in China to my house in the Netherlands. Now if only Lego could deliver your orders so quickly

I’m not here to advertise any sellers (and I won’t in this thread), but if anyone is curious about where I got it from, send me a PM.

Edited September 9, 2022 by LvdH

[amorti]

Look forward to your thoughts. @Jim would admin allow a separate thread for that?

[langko]

8 hours ago, LvdH said:

Ordered last week on September 1st, delivered today. From some warehouse in China to my house in the Netherlands. Now if only Lego could deliver your orders so quickly

I’m not here to advertise any sellers (and I won’t in this thread), but if anyone is curious about where I got it from, send me a PM.

Wow that is quick! The few things I’ve got from China have taken 4-6 weeks (to Australia). Interested to hear what you think too, so far the only videos about it I’ve found aren’t in English...  but by watching them the functions seem to be very mixed, the doors especially look like they work terribly (above video the person linked is 1 example).

7 hours ago, amorti said:

Look forward to your thoughts. @Jim would admin allow a separate thread for that?

Surely we don’t need a whole new thread for that... we can talk about the model here.

[Milan]

8 hours ago, amorti said:

Look forward to your thoughts. @Jim would admin allow a separate thread for that?

Rules on the first page said we do not open new topics for models. This is the only Cada topic for now

[Jim]

22 hours ago, amorti said:

Look forward to your thoughts. @Jim would admin allow a separate thread for that?

Like Milan mentioned, admin would not 

[LvdH]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:33 PM, amorti said:

Look forward to your thoughts

Absolutely. I'll share all my findings and opinions on this set here. I'm about halfway through the first bags and here's what I found so far.

Starting with the most obvious:
The quality... It's not really there.

• There is quite a lot of play between some parts, specially the brake rotors in the CVT. I hope this isn't an issue for the functionality, can't say definitively because I only just started an hour ago. 
• Parts either have way too much friction or too little friction. So far this only affected the blue axle pins and DBG 3L axle pins.
• Sticking this part  into this part  did not go smoothly for instance. It's more like a click rather than sliding a connector onto an axle like usual.
• Some parts came awfully scratched or even "stained".

So is the quality really better than LEGO? Some claim it is. As far as I can tell, CaDA has a long way to go to get the quality right. 

18 hours ago, langko said:

the doors especially look like they work terribly (above video the person linked is 1 example).

Since the doors are the same as the Regera, I'll just assume the same "problem" exists here. You cannot just put the parts together and expect it to work perfectly. The gears need to be aligned properly, otherwise the door will sag like in the video. That being said it's still quite likely that there is just too much play for the doors to function perfectly, but I will see for myself in a few days or so.

[amorti]

@LvdH I've found the DBG pins and blue axle pins to be loose, but never tight. The blue ones would be loose on the axle end, the DBG ones would be loose on the pin end. Fortunately on Bruno's red one, the blue ones were never critical and the grey ones while working almost as non friction pins, were never at risk of falling out. I think the same issue was a real problem for t-lego's centenario though, since he had pieces' attachment relying on the friction of the blue pins' axle ends.

[Polarlicht]

I have to say most cada technic parts are too loose, i have built 3 sets so far!

[keymaker]

14 hours ago, LvdH said:

So is the quality really better than LEGO? Some claim it is

There are such people and in case of technic parts - they totally have no idea what they are talking about.

[LvdH]

So a few hours later. Bags numbered 1 are finished. So far?

• Quality is still inconsistent. The axle holes in the 1x13 gear rack are off center. The 9L steering links have quite a lot of friction, although that doesn't seem to be an issue.You might also see the "stop" of the 8L with stop has broken off slightly. The friction in the half beams with axle holes was quite high so while pushing it in, it just snapped off.
  
• Build quality is superb. So far there are a few CaDA exclusive parts used, but all of them could be replaced with a little bit of technical insight. There was however a step where you had to push an axle into a frame where it can't be removed without tools.
  
• Extra parts after bags numbered 1:
  

Before starting on the second bags, I saw the new gear shifter. So I had a quick look to see how it works because it still wasn't clear to me.

While only one of the red selectors are used, you get a full set of four which is nice. These have to be inserted manually. 

This is how it looks from the inside. It comes pre assembled minus the red selectors. With two screws you can open the white housing.

So how does it work? As you can see there is one 5 long orange "worm gear". The orange plates are free to move. If you insert the red selector in the orange plate, the red bar shaped end slides into the orange worm gear and thus will start sliding back and forth as the worm gear rotates.

 

Finally, apologies for the mediocre photos. These were just taken on my desk with no preparations to write a semi-review.

 

9 hours ago, amorti said:

Fortunately on Bruno's red one, the blue ones were never critical and the grey ones while working almost as non friction pins, were never at risk of falling out.

Fortunately on Bruno's red one, there were no blue pins  
But yes, while his version was also originally designed with LEGO part like the Centenario, Bruno put a lot of effort into assuring every part is attached solidly so the inconsistent friction doesn't matter much there.

Edited September 11, 2022 by LvdH

[howitzer]

Very interesting that selector part. It's obviously made as a workaround to the TLG's patented wave selector and it shows, considering the many parts and even screws it has. Must be much more expensive to manufacture than TLG's counterpart, but I wonder if this one has any advantage over it?

[Johnny1360]

Lol, are you kidding me, at the core, it is the wave selector, even more funny, it's orange. They just disguise it by changing it's size and profile, then hide it in a little box with and preassembled with the parts TLG would have you build. Hilarious.

I really do like the concept though and find it quite interesting, enough so I think I will try my hand at making a similar contraption from LEGO, will certainly be much larger though.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Johnny1360

[howitzer]

16 minutes ago, Johnny1360 said:

Lol, are you kidding me, at the core, it is the wave selector, even more funny, it's orange. They just disguise it by changing it's size and profile, then hide it in a little box with and preassembled with the parts TLG would have you build. Hilarious.

I really do like the concept though and find it quite interesting, enough so I think I will try my hand at making a similar contraption from LEGO, will certainly be much larger though.

I mean, of course it is. But probably also different enough to circumvent the patent.

[Johnny1360]

Sorry, wasn't meant to poke fun at you, I just find it hilarious, the way, as you say, they circumvent a patent, which I find equally funny, as Archimedes invented it over 2,200 years ago.

[howitzer]

53 minutes ago, Johnny1360 said:

Sorry, wasn't meant to poke fun at you, I just find it hilarious, the way, as you say, they circumvent a patent, which I find equally funny, as Archimedes invented it over 2,200 years ago.

No offense taken. I also find it quite funny that they have to invent these kludges in order to make stuff work, as TLG is still far ahead in the game.

[Gray Gear]

1 hour ago, howitzer said:

No offense taken. I also find it quite funny that they have to invent these kludges in order to make stuff work, as TLG is still far ahead in the game.

This must be ironic. Mechanisms like the wave selector have been used in real world applications, like in motorbike transmissions for example, for decades at least, probably centuries. Its not rocket science, TLG just took an existing mechanism and made it work in the Brick world. 

This is like complimenting TLG for their pneumatic system. This is not new tech, and a patent should not be possible on an idea that exists already.

[Toastie]

2 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

This is not new tech, and a patent should not be possible on an idea that exists already.

So true. I find the entire patent world - at best - bizarre.

Recently submitted five further "ideas" [with two actually used by us by now (and no one else in the world is interested in that stuff)] to our industrial partner - who gives us quite good money for what we do. They really like patenting stuff. Years earlier, I told their patent attorney (they have myriads of them, we just always communicate with one very nice person who understands why we are doing what we do and how - which is really great!) that this and that will never ever fly, as it has been reported decades ago in research papers, and it has been "sort of" mentioned in other patents, as far as I read these patents. BTW, I don't do that anymore, reading other patents - it is a pure waste of time. He said to me: Don't worry, we'll take care of it. My "ideas" are usually one page of text max. and two drawings. What usually comes back is a 30++ page document - with history and claims and whatnot. And you can bet on it: It will fly. A couple of years later these are either world-wide patents or localized in about 30 countries. I have no clue how they do it. I was once told that it is about the world, the patent is existing in. OK. Apparently there are many worlds in Patent Universe. Or Multiverse ...

I believe what is required to patent stuff that is known since decades: a) Have enough money at hand, that makes someone write-up 30++ pages on a matter that is worth maybe half a page with a footnote that says: Has been done already. b) Have that person removing that footnote. c) Have a company name that is well-known as a world-wide power player in some area. d) Have a person, that defines worlds. e) Have contacts at patent granting agencies that are ... friendly. f) Don't step on the toes of other world-wide power players playing in the same world. That's about it.

So TLG patenting that thing: No problem: Archimedes is dead since long, he lived in another world + a) to f) all apply

CaDA dancing around that patent - hmmmm - we'll see, I believe. I bet some of the myriads of lawyers at TLG are already bending their heads and thought around this piece and think: Damned. Damned! How can we sue them - there >must< be a way. Well, without giving away the secret about the since long dead original inventor who just did not happen to have a patent lawyer, nor a patent granting agency. 

Patents. Holy cow.

All the best,
Thorsten

 

[LvdH]

So I just finished the bags numbered 2, 3 and 4.  

Number 2 finished off the rear axle and the gearbox mechanism. Like I said in my previous post, the new gear selector is used here as well. Speaking of which, there is an error in the instructions which I've confirmed with Dugald. On step A57 you install the limiter connected to the new gear selector. This limiter will stop your gear shifts going to 1 -> 9 and 9 -> 1. The gear in the instructions is the 9th gear, so logically the limiter should be at one of the ends. But it's not. It's facing down, right in the middle. This is easily fixed up until you add the gear selector. After that, you're out of luck. 

This is the step in question:

And this is what it should be:

Apart from that, everything went together smoothly. There is another error in the instructions which I will get to in a bit. The quality remains inconsistent. 

Here are two thin liftarms where the axle hole in one (or both) of them are not "straight".

Here is a 2L axle that looks like it was fried. Thankfully I have plenty of extras that came with my set. Speaking of which, I'm not really keeping track of them any more. I've had a few times where I need to pull parts from the spare pile because they're missing from my current bags.

 

On to bags 3.

This builds the front axle and part of the door mechanism.

Step C contains another error according to Dugald. This build has an axle lifter setup similar to his Regera. 
Step C35 and step C53: you need to rotate the 1x2 liftarms otherwise the axle lift will not work. 

No further issues, although the axle lift setup isn't built yet so these springs are just not attached to anything which might cause some issues when I get to that part.

Step D:

Pretty much finishing off the chassis. The seats and door mechanism, and the chassis finally gets some rigidity near the end. The door mechanism works, for now. We'll see when there's actually a door built. The range of motion isn't quite authentic though. It's supposed to go completely vertical, but whatever. 

The 4 wheel steering mechanism is also completed here. I have my doubts about it working though. There is a lot of play in the whole mechanism from the HOG gear, through 15 gears of various sizes, to the driving ring, to the U-joints and finally to the gear rack. The rear axle is kept centered with a rubber band, aka the classic mechanism used for a return to center steering, before servo motors. 

[howitzer]

49 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

This must be ironic. Mechanisms like the wave selector have been used in real world applications, like in motorbike transmissions for example, for decades at least, probably centuries. Its not rocket science, TLG just took an existing mechanism and made it work in the Brick world. 

This is like complimenting TLG for their pneumatic system. This is not new tech, and a patent should not be possible on an idea that exists already.

Of course the idea existed before that, nobody contests that. But still TLG patented the toy application for it, and not CaDA or any other competitor. I'm not sure how long it will hold, but clearly TLG still has the edge on innovation.

Patents of course are weird, but at the moment that's the way things are. I'm actually waiting for the moment when some competitor releases something truly new, something that puts TLG to shame but that day is yet to come.

[astyanax]

@Toastie Thanks for that rant on patents, I enjoyed it! 

[msk6003]

12 hours ago, Gray Gear said:

This must be ironic. Mechanisms like the wave selector have been used in real world applications, like in motorbike transmissions for example, for decades at least, probably centuries. Its not rocket science, TLG just took an existing mechanism and made it work in the Brick world. 

This is like complimenting TLG for their pneumatic system. This is not new tech, and a patent should not be possible on an idea that exists already.

But any other brick company and custom parts builder(even efferman!) don't make it before TLG did. I think TLG deserves praise.

[Gray Gear]

54 minutes ago, msk6003 said:

But any other brick company and custom parts builder(even efferman!) don't make it before TLG did. I think TLG deserves praise.

I am not saying TLG doesn't deserve praise for a brick they developed. I am saying that they should not get a patent for something that is not a new idea.

After all TLG is just as quick to pick up new brick designs and ideas from other companies as the competitors are from TLG (flip-flop beams is a perfect example)

[howitzer]

42 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

I am not saying TLG doesn't deserve praise for a brick they developed. I am saying that they should not get a patent for something that is not a new idea.

After all TLG is just as quick to pick up new brick designs and ideas from other companies as the competitors are from TLG (flip-flop beams is a perfect example)

I have a hard time to believe the flip-flop beams had not been considered long ago by TLG, they probably just weren't seen as necessary or worth the production cost of another element before a competitor started dealing them out. Note that they are obviously not patented, so they're even less of a novel idea than the wave selector. What I want to see is a new, useful part that a competitor can patent, and thus force TLG to either ignore it (to their detriment) or to invent a similar workaround as we've seen from CaDA here.

[efferman]

3 hours ago, msk6003 said:

even efferman!

If there is no need, there is no invention. Lego took only a real world mechanism and scaled it to lego sizes. No less, no more. My solution for the wave selector was done in an afternoon when Bruno announced the problem. Cada choosed simply the safe way to convert my idea into this complex mechanism.