[CADA] CADA General Discussion Topic

[astyanax]

1 hour ago, amorti said:

I think it's a real shame that some AFOLs are so purist that e.g. they'd rather build Bruno's Ferrari from Lego bricks

I feel addressed, but not offended.

Keep in mind there are also AFOLs, like yours truly, who just have lots of Lego bricks already, who regularly and happily disassemble their models, and actually enjoy the challenge of using just their inventory to put together something new, no matter where the design comes from.

From that perspective, I find it somewhat convenient that Lego's palette of Technic bricks is more limited (than System), because it keeps my inventory more manageable and reusable (more parts get more usage more often). Therefore I'm also somewhat hesitant to welcome a divergence of part palette between Lego and CaDA...

Call me conservative if you want... I've barely even recovered from the shock of transitioning to studless...

[amorti]

Just now, astyanax said:

I feel addressed, but not offended.

This is an appropriate reaction 

Also definitely no hard feelings, since you really went to town on the pimped version too.

I'm absolutely fine with extra parts becoming available, however it does bother me when there are awesome pieces that Lego doesn't have, because I can't really use them in any model I'd like to publish. For that reason I haven't really made a lot of use of the beams with pins on the ends. Yet.

[brickphisto]

@amorti Yes, you are right. Of course my MOC was not built to use those strong pro motors (but PF motors) and when the CaDA R&D team said the changes we made were sufficient I trusted them. It turned out they were not. But I can assure you there will be no problems with motorizing my next models since I designed them to be used with pro L-motors and tested again and again and again.

Edited March 9, 2022 by brickphisto
missed quote

[efferman]

2 hours ago, amorti said:

I recommend to use those whenever you can.

Well, i have used them a lot in nearly every length.

[LvdH]

3 hours ago, amorti said:

It will also have an advantage for CaDA if you can't build their licensed models from Lego bricks. I think it's a real shame that some AFOLs are so purist that e.g. they'd rather build Bruno's Ferrari from Lego bricks, even if it means painting panels to do it.

I also feel addressed  

There’s one 1x3 flip flip beam in the Apollo IE and some 1x3 liftarms with all 3 holes being axle holes, but it’s usually quite easy to come up with an alternative anyway.

Btw: you don’t need to paint anything for a fully LEGO 488 Pista (not anymore)  

Anyway I don’t really think it’s the right place for the discussion about purism/purists, but personally I like to attend LEGO fan conventions with my models, and off branded stuff is not always appreciated. I am far from a purist and will (when necessary) paint parts, cut axles (for example 8 long into 7 long axles, very rarely though) and on very rare occasions use off branded panels (white wheelarches or DBG panels for example, two colors very hard to match with paint). 

Edited March 9, 2022 by LvdH

[Toastie]

On 3/8/2022 at 9:35 PM, brunojj1 said:

Martin has been working on a better presentation of the portfolio enrichment back in February which you might find interesting

No, not interesting: Flabberghasting! And so powerful and inspiring!

This alone: "If you have a build you would like to be turned into a real set, let us know! We are always on the look out of new ideas that think beyond the brick. Easily submit your concept through our all new web portal (link below). Whether you are an enthusiast, or just a casual builder, we can’t wait to see your idea. This is not yet over! In a time when various collaborations are becoming more popular, CaDA Bricks is open and available to anyone from engineers, designers, or toys inventors!"

That's the thing. Not TLG's all in-house developments (set IDEAS aside - well not really, as they turn the submitted MOCs usually into something else - no idea how clear that process is to the submitter, but honestly I believe - it is totally opaque, teach me if I am wrong) - but rather the skilled public domain. It will always win - at least in current times. Any secrecy in this regard is so outdated - when it comes to inspiring, creative toy production.

Yes, TLG has made an insane revenue lately - but bonfires only burn that long. We'll see.

Thank you very much for sharing!!!

All the best,
Thorsten

[howitzer]

8 hours ago, Toastie said:

No, not interesting: Flabberghasting! And so powerful and inspiring!

This alone: "If you have a build you would like to be turned into a real set, let us know! We are always on the look out of new ideas that think beyond the brick. Easily submit your concept through our all new web portal (link below). Whether you are an enthusiast, or just a casual builder, we can’t wait to see your idea. This is not yet over! In a time when various collaborations are becoming more popular, CaDA Bricks is open and available to anyone from engineers, designers, or toys inventors!"

That's the thing. Not TLG's all in-house developments (set IDEAS aside - well not really, as they turn the submitted MOCs usually into something else - no idea how clear that process is to the submitter, but honestly I believe - it is totally opaque, teach me if I am wrong) - but rather the skilled public domain. It will always win - at least in current times. Any secrecy in this regard is so outdated - when it comes to inspiring, creative toy production.

Yes, TLG has made an insane revenue lately - but bonfires only burn that long. We'll see.

Thank you very much for sharing!!!

All the best,
Thorsten

In some ways the TLG's method of designing sets in-house probably stems from old company culture (which surely must have room for improvement), but I wonder how much of it is forced by the economics and logistics of TLG's operation? I mean, TLG is a huge company, making a huge number of products, and managing all that requires an extremely streamlined process. There might simply not be place for stuff like submitted MOCs to enter that process, as each set produced requires its overhead and affects the production of the other stuff they make. Smaller companies like CaDA can be much more agile, but on the other hand, you don't see CaDA brand stores in every major city all around the world and an aisle of CaDA products in every major department store. While they can keep this up for now, I wonder how long can it last if the company keeps growing?

[Gimmick]

8 hours ago, Toastie said:

That's the thing. Not TLG's all in-house developments [...] but rather the skilled public domain. It will always win - at least in current times. Any secrecy in this regard is so outdated - when it comes to inspiring, creative toy production.

Yes, TLG has made an insane revenue lately - but bonfires only burn that long. We'll see.

It's all fun until someone has to take responsibility.

New parts, (I'm still a bit rofl-ing and facepalm-ing about 'new part inventions' like 1x5 plate from Lego and flip-flop-beams from cada - especially because cada made a video about it xD), colors, prints, all very creative, no superior system.... reminds me of someone who almost went bankrupt in early 2000.

Currently [that's just my impression based on mostly german content] Cada still has some kind of puppy protection. A weird situation where often only positive sides get very emphasized. I guess the reasons are maybe, that it's 'new' and 'different' and that there still is some basic 'anti lego wibe' on ze webs. But 'new' and 'different' are very short living properties - by definition. If I remember what lego-sets were already destroyed for in reviews and for what reasons sets should have been "no Technic" anymore and apply those reasons on cada-sets...

But I see a permantly available market for that - just not a large one, because you cannot handle mainstream problems with this strategy. Which is fine from my point of view. In most hobbies you reach a point where you leave the mainstream because some nerds out there have the stuff you realy need ;D

[brunojj1]

3 minutes ago, Gimmick said:

It's all fun until someone has to take responsibility....

...Currently [that's just my impression based on mostly german content] Cada still has some kind of puppy protection....

If I remember what lego-sets were already destroyed for in reviews and for what reasons sets should have been "no Technic" anymore and apply those reasons on cada-sets...  ...

This is not "anti Lego", my friend! To me that sounds like Lego fanboy rhetorics which are kinda pointless here, maybe indeed a typical german POV. People feeling strong, riding clickbaiting "opinions" of some  so called influencers. There is a friendly agreement among the users on this forum - just read the opening post. We are not talking about MK or Bluebrixx here who are exploiting cheap MOC designs, which is their business strategy - please go ahead, be very critical and tear them apart, they deserve it a lot more IMO.

[Gimmick]

2 minutes ago, brunojj1 said:

This is not "anti Lego", my friend! To me that sounds like Lego fanboy rhetorics which are kinda pointless here, maybe indeed a typical german POV. People feeling strong, riding clickbaiting "opinions" of some  so called influencers. There is a friendly agreement among the users on this forum - just read the opening post. We are not talking about MK or Bluebrixx here who are exploiting cheap MOC designs, which is their business strategy - please go ahead, be very critical and tear them apart, they deserve it a lot more IMO.

No idea what you are talking about. I was not talking about this thread or that Cada is 'anti Lego' and I do not want to be critical about sets or tear them apart. If it sounds like that to you - maybe it's you :p

I just observed, that there are medias and users on platforms like blogs, yt, forums,... who published very negative reviews/opinions about some sets from Lego but not about Cada-sets eventough they share the critical properties like "direct motor-> function control" for example. Same property -> different opinion -> sounds biased to me.

And to make it clear again: That's not a Cada-problem, it's a perception problem.

And to repeat it again: I do not critisize Cada for that, it's just a response to "but bonfires only burn that long" because you have to be carefull if you try to analyse reasons of a success - new things are only new once and if I may make a wild guess: It seems like the "company that dominated the market for decates" mentioned in the blog-entry is Lego :D And I think it's interesting to see that Cada (no critic! puh...that was close) mentions "new innovations" eventough I think the present/previous community is very skeptical when it comes to new things, I've always found the community to be very conservative.

And I would be careful to reduce the strategy of lego to "focus on licenses". They do focus on licenses, but that seems to be the result of the strategy, not the strategy itself. And Cada (no critics) should do the same: Repeat the evaluation of why the things they do are successful and not repeat the things themself.

[Gray Gear]

I agree that in some reviews cada and other "alternatives" are not measured to an equal standard as LEGO. Sometimes I also think "if this was LEGO, you'd not accept this". But you have to see everything in relation to the price. If something only costs half the price of LEGO maybe you can forgive a flaw or two more.

But honestly I think comparing MOC sets and LEGO sets is kind of pointless either way. Unlike LEGO 18+ sets which can be built by a 8yo MOCs by technic fanatics will not be as simple as that. More advanced, complicated building techniques usually lead to a more advanced building a small child might not be able to handle.

Most people who buy CADA already have experience, so that is not a problem. TLG meanwhile makes their 18+ sets so easy that even the dumbest person combined with no LEGO experience will be able to assemble the set.

That is something that works now, but if CADA starts to become really big they might go the same route and dumb down their builds a bit to appeal to a bigger audience.

[amorti]

16 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

CADA might go the same route and dumb down their builds a bit to appeal to a bigger audience.

I hope not. They do have plenty of educational kits and smaller stuff aimed squarely at the kids' market.

I think any kid who builds their experience first can build any model. I mean - I built 8868 when I was 10 years old and that's often mentioned as among the hardest sets to build, ever.

[Toastie]

49 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

But you have to see everything in relation to the price. If something only costs half the price of LEGO maybe you can forgive a flaw or two more.

As Chris Cillizza says on YT: "And that's the point."

Best,
Thorsten

[astyanax]

1 hour ago, Gray Gear said:

if CADA starts to become really big they might go the same route and dumb down their builds a bit to appeal to a bigger audience.

I suspect the same. Even wrote it here:

The reality is: with great consumer base, comes great volume of help center calls...

Here's an interesting interview explaining the predicament, featuring an example from Technic building instructions:

https://www.newelementary.com/2020/09/missing-faulty-lego-consumer-perceived-quality.html

[Gimmick]

1 hour ago, Gray Gear said:

I agree that in some reviews cada and other "alternatives" are not measured to an equal standard as LEGO. Sometimes I also think "if this was LEGO, you'd not accept this". But you have to see everything in relation to the price. If something only costs half the price of LEGO maybe you can forgive a flaw or two more.

That definitely applies to a lot of things, but not to critics that targets the very basic concept of a model. And although I absolutely do agree that it's hard to directly compair a "normal consumer set" with "MOC sets", "it's a MOC..." can become too much of a free pass, if a company sells it as set. Sometimes it feels like 'reviewers' have a problem with the lack of a fitting drawer for sets and the critics are more about not fitting expectations and less about a set (no matter the company). :D

The topic of "how complex should instructions be" is a 'closed book' for me. For some people decrypting instrunctions is the main and fun part, on the other hand... instructions should be clear, because it's an instruction, right? :D I don't care about that, but I think the Cada masters-series fills a gap that definetly exists/ed, which is good.

[amorti]

@efferman asking since you have a cooperation with CaDA and are a studio / CAD wizard:

Do you have the CaDA specific pieces in studio, and can you share them?

[efferman]

2 hours ago, amorti said:

Do you have the CaDA specific pieces in studio, and can you share them

I have some selfmade pieces i can share. Do you have something special in mind?

[amorti]

58 minutes ago, efferman said:

Do you have something special in mind?

In particular, the 3L beam with pins on the end, 6L & 7L crossbeams, and the CADA battery box. The other crossbeams and beams with pins on the end can also be useful for future use, but aren't needed rn.

[efferman]

I have uploaded the selfmade parts into my bricksafe. But be aware, there are other custom parts inside the folder.

https://bricksafe.com/pages/efferman/stud.io-parts

Edited March 16, 2022 by efferman

[amorti]

3 hours ago, efferman said:

I have uploaded the selfmade parts into my bricksafe. But be aware, there are other custom parts inside the folder.

https://bricksafe.com/pages/efferman/stud.io-parts

Thank you! Works great :)

[aFrInaTi0n]

On 3/16/2022 at 4:56 PM, efferman said:

I have uploaded the selfmade parts into my bricksafe. But be aware, there are other custom parts inside the folder.

https://bricksafe.com/pages/efferman/stud.io-parts

Thanks also from my side! Finally flipflop beams in Stud.io! :D

[AVCampos]

Can't Stud.io import unofficial parts from LDraw's Parts Tracker? It "only" has the flip-flop lengths LEGO makes so far (11 and 15), but at least it's something.

[amorti]

27 minutes ago, AVCampos said:

Can't Stud.io import unofficial parts from LDraw's Parts Tracker? It "only" has the flip-flop lengths LEGO makes so far (11 and 15), but at least it's something.

Go to efferman's kindly provided folder. You find much more than 11&15 

[gyenesvi]

A question to all those involved with Cada, especially who participated in part design as well. I was wondering if Cada would be willing to produce parts that don't exist in Lego, but could and would be very useful. I am not talking about designing brand new parts, just the usual often missed ones; well tested concepts in sizes that don't exist but could, such as 4L / 6L / 8L liftarms, thin liftarms in more sizes, L shaped liftarms in more sizes, 6L / 7L axles with stops, 4L pins or pins with stops, 24T clutch gear and different gear sizes in general, towball liftarms in different sizes, CV joints with different axle sizes.. and I'm sure that there's a ton more. I wonder why they stick with only the sizes that exist in Lego. I think adding the missing but useful sizes would be a great way to differentiate themselves from Lego and to make building things quite a bit easier. Sometimes that (generic) part in the right size just simplifies things enormously to where they really should be, and I hate that Lego just makes their own (and our) life harder by not adding those parts.

Has such thing been discussed with Cada? Or is there anybody who could strike up that conversation with them?

[msk6003]

11 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

A question to all those involved with Cada, especially who participated in part design as well. I was wondering if Cada would be willing to produce parts that don't exist in Lego, but could and would be very useful. I am not talking about designing brand new parts, just the usual often missed ones; well tested concepts in sizes that don't exist but could, such as 4L / 6L / 8L liftarms, thin liftarms in more sizes, L shaped liftarms in more sizes, 6L / 7L axles with stops, 4L pins or pins with stops, 24T clutch gear and different gear sizes in general, towball liftarms in different sizes, CV joints with different axle sizes.. and I'm sure that there's a ton more. I wonder why they stick with only the sizes that exist in Lego. I think adding the missing but useful sizes would be a great way to differentiate themselves from Lego and to make building things quite a bit easier. Sometimes that (generic) part in the right size just simplifies things enormously to where they really should be, and I hate that Lego just makes their own (and our) life harder by not adding those parts.

Has such thing been discussed with Cada? Or is there anybody who could strike up that conversation with them?

Even I'm not desinger CADA or LEGO least I can say about clutch gear.

Gear bigger than 24t will not come in any brand I think.

Because If you want use clutch system, it need some control device for driving ring. But if gear is bigger than 24t, it will block hole for rotatry catch, and if gear is bigger than 20t it will block to place for changeover catch.