42146 - Liebherr LR13000

[1gor]

On 1/21/2022 at 8:36 PM, Aleh said:

I assume there will be no LA's for major features at least.

Everything is possible, but using actuators (somehow) to fold was plan for my MOC inspired with Liebherr like this set would be...

It could use worm gear...

Edited January 23, 2022 by 1gor

[allanp]

49 minutes ago, Aleh said:

I assume there will be no LA's for major features at least.

I doubt it. My guess is it'll use winches and cable for all the lifting functions. Isn't that how the real one is?

[JaBaCaDaBra]

26 minutes ago, allanp said:

I doubt it. My guess is it'll use winches and cable for all the lifting functions. Isn't that how the real one is?

No, There are also hydraulic rams.
For instance the mast bracket (primary derrick) uses them.

But have a look at this wonderfull demonstration:
 

 

[R0Sch]

I learned from the promobricks livestream that the crane will actually have the main boom, back mast, plus the extension jib to achieve the whooping 1.5m height including the mobile derrick ballast.
Seeing Aleh's Liebherr LR 11000 MOC, I guess the part count is realistic for the size, but then the price of 600$ is just outrageous.

Edited January 21, 2022 by R0Sch

[Milan]

Guys, when replying, try not to quote images unless necessary, especially from the same page.
I have cleaned all four pages.

[menad]

It is listed for 450 EUR on brickmerge.

I cannot imagine 600 EUR for only 2800 parts even it has bigger pieces or more c+ elements.

Piece count or price might be wrong.

[allanp]

Maybe it's Canadian dollars!

[Richombx]

9 hours ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

 

HOLY MOLY I GUESSED THE FLAGSHIP RIGHT!! First time in my life!!!

The flagship is indeed a crawler crane and it's even from Liebherr!!!

You guessed nothing, agreeing with a rumor from another site means you just followed someone else’s opinion. We also can’t count on any of the current information as correct so people’s imaginations shouldn’t be running away with a kit that doesn’t exist yet

[LvdH]

52 minutes ago, Richombx said:

You guessed nothing, agreeing with a rumor from another site means you just followed someone else’s opinion. We also can’t count on any of the current information as correct so people’s imaginations shouldn’t be running away with a kit that doesn’t exist yet

Promobricks is reliable though. They don't put out "opinions" on what sets will be released. Of course it's not official, nor certain, but it's almost always correct.

[Zerobricks]

Maybe the price is so high because they are using multiple hubs (one in carriage and other in the superstructure) AND they need something for the weights. Either a lot of 6x2 boat weights or some new, HEAVY part which drives up the cost.

[allanp]

4 hours ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

No, There are also hydraulic rams.
For instance the mast bracket (primary derrick) uses them.

But have a look at this wonderfull demonstration:
 

Nice video, thanks for sharing. But still it looks as though the cables are doing all the lifting (after the crane is assembled). I did think the hydraulics were used for assembly but I noticed they weren't attached for most of the assembly so I'm not sure what they are for tbh. Maybe they help adjust the tension on the ballast? But the video does demonstrate quite a few possible functions.

Left track, right track, slew, boom 1 winch, boom 2 winch, hook winch, ballast move in and out, ballast wheel steering and several stabiliser jacks. So it looks as though there's potentially enough functions to easily fill 2 hubs. Plus, do we think the weight of two hubs is going to be enough for a 1.5 meter crane? Maybe there's some counter weights included.

[Ngoc Nguyen]

4 hours ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

But have a look at this wonderfull demonstration:

What are the hydraulic cylinders for in that video? The booms are all lifted and lowered through the cables, aren't they?

[Johnny1360]

It would be great if it came rigged with that Power Boom setup, with the double, parallel boom.

[Bartybum]

If it's only ~2900 pieces then I'd expect the carrier to be quite small in scale, and for it to have a luffing jib too. That would make seven functions, maybe even eight going by this image:

• 2x Tracks
• 1x Slew
• 1x Back winch
• 1x Main boom
• 1x Luffing Jig
• 1x/2x Hook

The realist in me though thinks that they'll only do one hook (wouldn't be enough motor sockets in a smart hub ) and won't include that extra winch at the lower rear. For $600USD I would seriously hope that there's some seriously large pieces and complex mechanisms, because that price is just ridiculous.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Bartybum

[Richombx]

3 hours ago, LvdH said:

Promobricks is reliable though. They don't put out "opinions" on what sets will be released. Of course it's not official, nor certain, but it's almost always correct.

I’m pretty sure promobricks originally said 42131 was 2x hubs and 7x motors. That didn’t happen. I’m all for speculation but people forming opinions on sets at this point have no real base and it’s pointless. No way I’ll be paying $1000 aud for a sub 3000 piece kit that’s just crazy. Personally I’d say it will be 1x hub and work just like the D11 with 4x motors so the price is way too high. 

[mdemerchant]

1 minute ago, Richombx said:

I’m pretty sure promobricks originally said 42131 was 2x hubs and 7x motors. That didn’t happen. I’m all for speculation but people forming opinions on sets at this point have no real base and it’s pointless. No way I’ll be paying $1000 aud for a sub 3000 piece kit that’s just crazy. Personally I’d say it will be 1x hub and work just like the D11 with 4x motors so the price is way too high. 

I'll indulge in some pointless speculation

Assuming they do direct drive of all functions and don't use a gearbox, 4 motors will not be enough for a crawler crane.  At a minimum you need five functions:  two crawlers, slewing, boom raise/lower, hook.  If it's really a LR13000 they don't operate without a derrick I think so that's a minimum of 6 even if they don't put in a luffing jib.  So you're talking about two hubs or a Mindstorms hub or whatever it's called, which seems highly unlikely.  I would expect two hubs the same as in 42100, one in the base driving the crawlers and slewing and one in the superstructure running the winches for all other functions, however many there may be.  Of course they could have two crawlers directly driven and everything else with a gearbox but I doubt it due to the complexity of getting enough functions through the turn table.

Anyway, I'm with you, it seems like a lot of money.  And 1.5m isn't actually a particularly big crane although it's probably at the limit of what Lego may ever release.  Still, I really like cranes so I'll be eager to see what they make but unlikely to buy it.

I am curious to see what boom configuration they come up with.  Erecting a largish crane with a derrick and luffiing jib isn't actually that simple, it would be interesting to see how they explain that in the instructions.  It's also quite easy to have a disastrous accident when playing with it if you are not careful, I speak from much experience 

[Bartybum]

41 minutes ago, mdemerchant said:

It's also quite easy to have a disastrous accident when playing with it if you are not careful, I speak from much experience 

Oh my god now you’ve got me worried that it won’t be an adjustable boom 

[Richombx]

42131 gave us 6x functions with one hub when everyone had assumed we would get 2, 42042 only has 1x motor to achieve its functions. I don’t think lego will give us some ultra fiddley and fragile boom/luffing  jib as we need to remember lego has standards and these will need to be met. I’m expecting a gearbox as that is what most people seem to say they want and it would fit well with what’s needed. The only reason 42100 uses motors for all functions is that is how a hydraulic excavator works, it’s just a power pack and big pumps, this has the talk of what will they do if the next super car was electric and has no engine or gearbox to replicate. I’m all for wishing and wanting but lego has limitations and can’t do what some moc builder can.

[Aleh]

12 hours ago, allanp said:

I doubt it. My guess is it'll use winches and cable for all the lifting functions. Isn't that how the real one is?

Doubt with what? That there will be no LA for major functions? Re read my initial post please :)

11 hours ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

No, There are also hydraulic rams.
For instance the mast bracket (primary derrick) uses them.

But have a look at this wonderfull demonstration:
 

I suppose that those hydroulic system are used to raise SA-frame from the horizontal position, because this is impossible to do using winch.
And maybe as secondary safety system in case winch will broke.


When I designed my LIebher LR1100 I learned Manufacturer manuals very thoroughly..

11 hours ago, R0Sch said:

Seeing Aleh's Liebherr LR 11000 MOC, I guess the part count is realistic for the size, but then the price of 600$ is just outrageous.

Appreciate for mentioning me :)

To be honest I was thinking to build 3rd Liebherr LR using new tracks from CAT D11, as a result - bigger scale, but only Main boom or MAin + derrick mast, without Luffing Jib.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Aleh

[gyenesvi]

I'd also tend to think that this would use 2 hubs because it needs weight plus it would be difficult to route the drive through the turntable in a robust manner. I'd just guess it would use a similar drive as the CAT, with planetary hubs directly driven by 2 motors.

As for the low piece count, it could be the result of efficient structures made possible by flip-flop beams and frames. A crane is a good candidate to use them, so I hope they'd be coming in various lengths!

Let's hope the price is actually going to be less in the end. I'd only think about buying it at that price if it contained 2 rechargeable hubs, which I don't think it would.

[allanp]

2 hours ago, Aleh said:

Doubt with what? That there will be no LA for major functions? Re read my initial post please :)

 

Yes, I was agreeing with your assumption that it's wouldn't use actuators for the major functions. Am I getting confused? I haven't had my coffee yet 

I'm still wondering what all the various hydraulic rams do, just out of curiosity. I see that some frames have to lift up into place, in so doing they are also lifting a whole bunch of steel cable, so I assume some hydraulics are being used for erecting the crane. The one in the thumbnail of the video posted above seems positioned in a way that it would counteract a tension force in the connected structure, keeping the arm straighter and therefor much stronger.

[pleegwat]

If this has only one hub, then the only steering options are either feeding the motor leads through the turntable, or using two coaxial shafts. I don't really see TLG doing either.

Given the price, I tend to expect two hubs, though it is also possible they are including counterweight elements which are expensive to produce due to non-plastic contents.

[nerdsforprez]

8 hours ago, Bartybum said:

If it's only ~2900 pieces then I'd expect the carrier to be quite small in scale, and for it to have a luffing jib too....

Yes.  Agreed.  Perhaps even smaller than 42042.    If 42042 had ~1400 pieces, and this only has ~2800,  ~1400 for back mast, extension jib, and derrick ballast does not seem like a lot.  IMO, something has to give.  We have wrong information on something.  Price.  Piece count.... something.  

For what it is worth though... this set may be somewhat unique... something we have been clamoring for for awhile.  The only other mobile crane we have that has extension jib, back mast, etc. was 8288 if I am not mistaken.  Not motorized.  No mobile derrick ballast.  Although overpriced, as a lover of cranes, this may be a set I pick up.  

[Bricktrain]

55 minutes ago, allanp said:

Yes, I was agreeing with your assumption that it's wouldn't use actuators for the major functions. Am I getting confused? I haven't had my coffee yet 

I'm still wondering what all the various hydraulic rams do, just out of curiosity. I see that some frames have to lift up into place, in so doing they are also lifting a whole bunch of steel cable, so I assume some hydraulics are being used for erecting the crane. The one in the thumbnail of the video posted above seems positioned in a way that it would counteract a tension force in the connected structure, keeping the arm straighter and therefor much stronger.

The Derrick is built upside down in front of the crane then flipped over so the rams that can be seen on top of it hang off of it to pick up the ballast tray.  There are also Hydraulic backstops on the LRs which allow the boom to operate at much higher angles than other Cranes nearly 90degrees.

[Aleh]

10 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

  ~1400 for back mast, extension jib, and derrick ballast does not seem like a lot.  IMO, something has to give. 

Let me disagree with you - derrick boom with several sections in size om 42042 boom will "weight" 150-200 parts,  using 500 barts we can develop cool luffing jib, consisting of three separate booms. And the half goes to the superstructure (counterweight feature). It may be simple.