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45 minutes ago, Toastie said:

 - does the PUp App app for this train allow you to control both motors "in parallel"? Do you "pair" one remote with two hubs and then off you go?

yes, sure, that's not a property of the app but of the system.

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Gotta say 60337 is the first attractive passenger train since the Horizon express... Mostly because it's a city-fied version of it. Preordered two :D

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With the release of the new trains, does this mean there’s an updated (i.e. v1.2) version of the PuP hub included?

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2 hours ago, Lok24 said:

yes, sure, that's not a property of the app but of the system.

Oh I know that - but it would be surely a feature of a TLG pre-built  "program" running on the PoweredUp App.

I mean various PUp enabled sets (Crocodile, city train (cargo), city train (passenger), Disney train - and the piano and what not) - have their own app to make sounds and whatnot. When you plainly pair a remote with the two port hub, attach a train motor, than you can step-wise increase/decrease the motor power - and stop it. Of one or two motors individually.

Two thoughts: It appears as if the passenger train set comes with lights - and there goes the second port. Now I buy two of these sets. My question was: Does TLG provide a prefabricated program (like for the croc) for this set of two? This is clearly what they intend customers to do - as they did in the past: Buy two sets - otherwise it looks stupid. However, without doing any custom programming or without a prefabricated croc-like program from TLG, upon turning one remote on, it will grab the hub turned on next. Then the other remote has to be turned on - and it will pair with the other hub turned on. And then you'd have to do the "PF like dance" hoping that both receivers set to the same channel receive the signals from the remote in sync.

And this would have been the very big advantage of PUp over PF: With two HE sets you were stuck with one remote controlling two PF receivers hopefully synchronously - IR is IR after all (yes I know, can be built in another way - did that - but not my point, I am talking out-of-the-box features, because the target audience is out-of-the-box as well, as discussed above). And some folks struggled with that, when looking back (again, not the train heads, but the parents not interested in LEGO trains or confusing electronics) you can pull these message up even here on EB.

With a nice and shiny new app for the PUp App - let's call it the "2x60337" app - as you said, the PUp system lets you readily pair 2 hubs with one remote and it would simply automatically reverse one motor direction - and then with one dial you would run the entire train and with the other, you would turn on and off both light simultaneously.

That is what I asked. But as far as I can see, when starting the PUp App on my phone, there is no "2x60337" app.

Best,
Thorsten   

     

14 minutes ago, M_slug357 said:

With the release of the new trains, does this mean there’s an updated (i.e. v1.2) version of the PuP hub included?

Why should TLG do that?

Best,
Thorsten

Edited by Toastie
42 typos, 2 stupid arguments. TGIF.

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14 hours ago, Toastie said:

That is what I asked. But as far as I can see, when starting the PUp App on my phone, there is no "2x60337" app.

? a 60337 App ?

The train is realesed on 1st of june, so you will have to wait for the new Powerd Up app-version.
And it should, according to the past, contain two new sets: the new passenger train, and the new cargo train. Which makes then 6(?) Trains.

But as there is the 60197 with no "two train app", why should this appear just now?
It is not designed that way.

Multiple trains - one remote: yes
One Smart Device - one train.

 

 

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My 2 cents on the PuP app, after some experiments:

Predefined settings are nice for immediate use, but after some choo choo and puff puff and screech and "Batmaaaaan" - these become boring even for kids.

The interesting thing about the App is the fact you can create your own control program - so for example you can set different predefined speeds (0,25,50,75,100%), you can emulate acceleration and slowdown to a stop...speaking of trains, obviously, movements and actions are more or less always the same.

The possibility to program the outputs of the PuP hubs gave me one nice feeling of "the LOGO Turtle" (I'm getting old, damn!) and I like PuP for this reason. It can be educative. It can go far beyond the choo choo. It can be used also for side tracks accessories, like for example, a crane loading different materials according to wagon color. It can be used to stop the train and open its doors, wait and restart...in this way the PuP is really really nice.

But...you're always limited by the number of ports of the small and big hubs. In some cases, the mounting position of the big hub with Technic holes could compromise the access to the ports, limiting even more the possibility to expand functionalities.

What I'd change:

Small AAA Batteries of the small hub are too weak and do not last so much - I would like to have, for example , a LIPO battery - based solution with USB recharging port like many many Lego "clones" are offering (with PF connections). Less space for batteries, more space for two additional ports.

Then, I would like also small motors like Circuit Cubes - these could be nice for secondary functions and eventually smaller models.

As a solution, PuP HAS potential, but it must be addressed in some way by TLG.

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Forgive my ignorance please, as I only currently have one PUP train but it seems to me the whole point of having a smart hub and app, is so you can control two trains linked together as one with a single remote. I also assumed this was already doable without some sort of update to the firmware or software.

Am I wrong?

Can you control two different hubs with a single remote simultaneously.

Edited by Johnny1360

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you can connect the hubs with the remote to one of five channels each.

- connecting to the same channel the hubs do the same

- conneting them to different channels you use the green button to switch between the hubs, they do different things

- use the predfefined "set-controls" (i.e. for the 60197) to connect exactly one hub

- use a user-written program to connect the remote to up to three hubs and do whatever you want to

No need for any FW update

 

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On 5/4/2022 at 8:21 PM, Aanchir said:

Alternatively, freight wagons, railway buildings/structures, train tracks, etc. could perhaps be incorporated into sets from other subthemes that would introduce other sorts of play scenarios

Construction would seem to be the obvious choice. A couple of open wagons with some grey studs for ballast, a road-rail digger, and a track panel carrying wagon. 

Otherwise, how about a coach which has been converted into a restaurant?

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2 hours ago, Kalahari134 said:

Otherwise, how about a coach which has been converted into a restaurant?

Oh, I love that idea! That'd make for a great set I think.

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5 hours ago, Johnny1360 said:

but it seems to me the whole point of having a smart hub and app, is so you can control two trains linked together as one with a single remote

I absolutely agree. And my point was: >Without doing any programming<, but using an app provided by TLG. For first time users, as this is what TLG is clearly targeting. New

 

5 hours ago, Lok24 said:

you can connect the hubs with the remote to one of five channels each.

Now I am lost. Forgive me, but I am not using TLGs prefab programs. I did some very basic "programming" using the PUp App - and then left that alone.

OK, step by step. First things first: Are you talking about the programming mode in the PUp App? I believe so. Lets assume that.

  • I did not know there were any channels when using PUp, which is async. BLE. This sounds like PF, where we have 4 "channels". Is that so?
  • Now, there is my hub. How do I select the channel, I want to use for that hub? Is that in the PUp App in programming mode?
  • User written program again refers to the programming mode in the PUp App, correct?
  • If so, of course, a user-written program allows all.

I believe, I missed something.

My point really is: If TLG wants to push the PUp system for their targeted customers (first timers) than exactly PUp could take care of so many issues - because, as you said - the system allows that. Programming gurus will readily do it - but those folks are maybe not of the type "I buy 2 sets, because it looks right to do so".

And my question is: Do they really do that? Or is PUp for "them" (the folks in charge, i.e. accounting and marketing) - just another "remote + receiver" thing? Which it is absolutely not?

Best,
Thorsten

Edited by Toastie

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3 hours ago, Kalahari134 said:

Construction would seem to be the obvious choice. A couple of open wagons with some grey studs for ballast, a road-rail digger, and a track panel carrying wagon.

That's definitely a good thought. There are definitely a few different approaches you could take there that would have great crossover appeal for LEGO train fans, not just for the possibility of freight wagons but also for other sorts of train layout features that LEGO has long been lacking in.

One thing I think I brought up in either this thread or one of the Town forum threads a while back is how exciting a tunnel construction set could be — e.g. a rock face with break-away sections in the center, a tunnel boring machine or excavator to clear through those break-away sections, a cherry picker truck or the like for a minifigure to spray concrete and install lighting, and some bricks to install a nice stone or concrete arch at the tunnel's mouth. For price reasons, I think a set like that would probably make the most sense if it only included one tunnel mouth (with the option of connecting two of them back to back to create a full tunnel). But Duplo has had pre-molded train tunnels for years, and I think a System tunnel construction set like this would be a great complement to either train models or the new road system.

A bridge construction set with a crane is another possibility I've thought about that could be compatible with roads and train tracks alike. As a kid, I remember reading a whole lot about architecture (inspired in no small part by my love of building toys like LEGO and K'nex), and bridges received plenty of attention in a lot of that reading material. Yet bridges have never gotten a whole lot of attention in LEGO themes like Town, Trains, or City themes. I think that with the advent of the new road system (which is much more conducive to changes in grade/elevation than baseplates were due to having attachment points on both the top and bottom), I feel like there's never been a better time for LEGO City to finally take that step!

3 hours ago, Kalahari134 said:

Otherwise, how about a coach which has been converted into a restaurant?

That could definitely work, but how well it would appeal to LEGO train enthusiasts would probably depend heavily on how easily it could be converted back to working condition!

Come to think of it, that could also be an interesting subject for one of the models in a 3-in-1 set, since the train bits needed to convert it back or rebuild it into other types of train model could be repurposed in other parts of the build (something I feel Creator 3-in-1 designers often excel at).

 

Anyway, yesterday I managed to more or less finish reverse-engineering the 60335 Train Station on stud.io. I'd already recreated the foundation in order to brainstorm train layout ideas, and as I was looking at the pictures, I found myself increasingly tempted to figure out how rest of the structure goes together and what its proportions were like. Here is a download link to the .io file for anybody interested in seeing the build in more detail, planning mods for it, or exploring how they want to integrate it into their own layouts!

Fair warning: I can't guarantee this model's accuracy, though I did my best to compare every detail I could with the official images and videos (including the 360-degree turnaround) The main part I'm uncertain about is how the accessibility ramp in the back is attached — I used traditional 1x2 rocker hinge bricks, but it might just as easily be attached with clips like the one from the Passenger Train set. I'm also not 100% certain about what sort of plates (or how many) are used to support the middle of the level crossing.
There is one placeholder part in my model — the windscreen used as a pastry display case on the cafe counter should be the new 2x4 curved windscreen that debuted in the 4+ Spidey and his Amazing Friends sets earlier this year, but since that part is not available on stud.io yet I used a traditional 2x4x2 sloped windscreen in its place. I also haven't bothered to build any of the vehicles, since those weren't what I was most curious about on a personal level.
 

The cleverness on the designer was definitely on display with some parts of the build, most obviously with the SNOTted roof and skylights, which I know have already garnered quite a bit of attention. There's something very satisfying about how seamlessly and securely it all fits together, even with the center control tower set one stud forward from the rest of the build. And the resulting studless design of the roof ends up looking remarkably clean and consistent.

The still semi-recent bracket piece 41682 plays a big part in making this possible, but this set's designer also deserves a lot of credit for making this bold choice instead of defaulting to a traditional studs-up roof made up of standard plates. It's certainly a much less conventional approach than I'm used to seeing in a theme like City, which generally tends to favor more basic and traditional building techniques. I expect that this will be many kids' first time seeing a roof built in this manner — which is sure to expand their thinking about the sort of things that can be achieved using LEGO bricks!

I remain very impressed by the 4x8 mosaic wall. Even though it's a simple, non-structural part of the model, it's a very fun decorative detail. And given how rare and limited in color those 2x2 triangular tiles felt in 2018 when they were first introduced, there's something very fun and exciting about getting eight different colors of them in this one set! It's not quite as customization-friendly as the Dots mosaics from the LEGO Friends art school, of course, but I could certainly see some builders making changes to suit their tastes, such as arranging the colors in a starburst/pinwheel pattern, or flipping the right side vertically so the red begins at the top on both the left and right.

The plantlife in the set, likewise, adds some great decoration on the sides of the building and above the entrance ramp, and helps the whole building to feel a little less sterile. It's nice that the tree on the left side of the platform closely resembles the one on attached to the station platform from the Passenger Train set — the trees mirror each other nicely if you decide to combine the two platforms into one (though I don't feel as keen on that myself that now that I realize that both platforms already have accessibility ramps), and also helps to give the passenger rail facilities a consistent visual identity.
 

Another interesting thing I learned while working on this is that in spite of all the concerns I've read about the size of the station building itself, it's actually slightly larger than the one from the previous City train station, set 60050. That set's station building was more or less a 6x24x8 box, minus around 12 studs total in the front where the front doors and some of the exterior walls are recessed backwards by one stud. By comparison, 60335's station building has around a 6x8x8 upper floor and a 6x16x8 ground floor, plus about ten studs where the front window extends forward from the rest of the building.

Mind you, this is still a considerably smaller interior than the first City train station, set 7997, or any of the station buildings of the 9V era — all of which had a 6x24 footprint or wider, plus a second floor! But again, that has more to do with this set being modeled on more average/intermediate sized train stations (larger than a halt/whistle stop/flag stop, but smaller than a passenger terminal/grand terminus).
 

And while the vehicles don't seem to have forced LEGO to cut any corners with the station's size compared to previous City stations, they ARE undoubtedly a big part of why its price is so much higher than those earlier train stations. The total piece count for the "static" parts of the model (station, tracks, road, level crossing, etc) comes to only around 478 parts, or a little more than half the set's overall piece count — meaning the minifigures and vehicle parts account for 428 pieces altogether (assuming a single sticker sheet to round out the set's 907 pieces).

Honestly, I'm not too worried about the price point making a big dent in the set's sales or discouraging LEGO from making other sets like this in the future. After all, City seems to have had a pretty good track record as of late with other high-priced playsets that devote substantial portions of their piece count to both buildings and vehicles — even ones like 60258 Tuning Workshop or 60203 Ski Resort that deviate from the more predictable "bestsellers" like fire or police stations. But I also know that even that reassurance won't negate the sting of that extra hit to many buyers' wallets, especially those who aren't interested at all in the side builds from this set and would rather pay less for just the station if given the option.
 

My own main gripe about this model after building it on stud.io is the lack of any sort of caution markings towards the front of the station platform. As a semi-frequent train traveler, I feel like nearly every station I've been to has SOME sort of indicator of where you are safe to stand as a train is approaching (e.g. "Please stand behind the yellow line"). It doesn't seem like it would have cost too much for the designers to add a narrow row of yellow plates/tiles near the edge of the platform, or even just some brightly-colored 1x1 indicator lights like in 60050. Of course, that's not a hard thing for a builder to add after the fact — it just strikes me as a surprising omission, considering the standard of detail on display throughout the rest of the model.

I also sort of wish that instead of Tr. Light Blue 1x2 plates for the floodlights on the front of the station (the same color as the window glass), the set had used the White Glow 1x2 plates introduced last year in sets 60304 and 60306. Again, this is a simple modification, but it just strikes me as a missed opportunity. That said, I recognize that the designer probably didn't want to risk kids mixing up those parts with the standard white 1x2 plates used for other parts of the station building.

But overall, I'm very impressed. It's a pleasant departure from the look of the stations we've had before. The colors and building techniques alike feel very fresh, and definitely feels like a station I'd be happy to travel through on a daily or weekly commute. Hopefully it sells well enough for LEGO to release more City train sets (perhaps sooner than the usual 4-year cycle, even) so we can see more and more of this sort of innovation and ingenuity.

Edited by Aanchir

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11 hours ago, Toastie said:

I absolutely agree. And my point was: >Without doing any programming<, but using an app provided by TLG. For first time users, as this is what TLG is clearly targeting. New

 

Now I am lost. Forgive me, but I am not using TLGs prefab programs. I did some very basic "programming" using the PUp App - and then left that alone.

OK, step by step. First things first: Are you talking about the programming mode in the PUp App? I believe so. Lets assume that.

  • I did not know there were any channels when using PUp, which is async. BLE. This sounds like PF, where we have 4 "channels". Is that so?
  • Now, there is my hub. How do I select the channel, I want to use for that hub? Is that in the PUp App in programming mode?
  • User written program again refers to the programming mode in the PUp App, correct?
  • If so, of course, a user-written program allows all.

I believe, I missed something.

My point really is: If TLG wants to push the PUp system for their targeted customers (first timers) than exactly PUp could take care of so many issues - because, as you said - the system allows that. Programming gurus will readily do it - but those folks are maybe not of the type "I buy 2 sets, because it looks right to do so".

And my question is: Do they really do that? Or is PUp for "them" (the folks in charge, i.e. accounting and marketing) - just another "remote + receiver" thing? Which it is absolutely not?

Best,
Thorsten

About the five channels, I think Lok24 is refering to the five different colours the PuP remote and hub can show to indicate which hub you are controling. (if controling multiple hubs with one remote)

I copied a text I believe is relevant from the time PuP was introduced;

An interesting feature of the LEGO Powered Up system is that if you build two or more hubs into the same train, and give them all the same channel color, you can drive up to five train motors in sync by connecting them to the same output on each hub. This is especially useful for long trains. In addition, you can use two motors at the same time from the same controller with one motor having its polarity reversed. This is done by turning the button interface to the direction of control needed. This feature is very handy for operating vehicles where you want vertical control for forward/backward drive and horizontal for steering.

end of copy... !

 

Note:

I believe the a/m text is only applicable for 2ch PuP hub, since that is the only hub you can pair automatically with PuP remote.

When using the bigger 4ch (Technic) PuP hub, the PuP remote won't work automatically. New software from PYbricks, or a custom program in PuP app would be required in this case.

 

Edited by Selander
Info added

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11 hours ago, Toastie said:

OK, step by step. First things first: Are you talking about the programming mode in the PUp App? I believe so. Lets assume that.

Absolutely not. No SmartDevice, only the remote.

 

11 hours ago, Toastie said:

I did not know there were any channels when using PUp, which is async. BLE. This sounds like PF, where we have 4 "channels". Is that so?

Yes.

11 hours ago, Toastie said:
  • Now, there is my hub. How do I select the channel, I want to use for that hub? Is that in the PUp App in programming mode?

 

Pressing the green button on the hub. We're talking about the remote, no programming at all.

11 hours ago, Toastie said:

I believe, I missed something.

 

:laugh:

 

11 hours ago, Toastie said:

My point really is: If TLG wants to push the PUp system for their targeted customers (first timers) than exactly PUp could take care of so many issues - because, as you said - the system allows that.

It is described in the help topics on the LEGO Site how to connect and switch. And it's nothing new, it is designed that way since years.

 

2 hours ago, Selander said:

About the five channels, I think Lok24 is refering to the five different colours the PuP remote and hub can show to indicate which hub you are controling. (if controling multiple hubs with one remote)

 

Exactly.

 

2 hours ago, Selander said:

I believe the a/m text is only applicable for 2ch PuP hub, since that is the only hub you can pair automatically with PuP remote.

No,  Other way round. Looking at the PUP hubs there are three (besides Mario, Duplo, Wedo, Spike, RI)

- City
- technic
- boost

and the exception is the technic hub, cause it cannot connected with remote, which is an error in the system.

All others (city, boost) work fine. Where I'm not sure how to switch channels with boost, cause the green button switches form A+B to C+D ports. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Lok24

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When speaking about PuP hubs suitable for trains, I'd say boost hub is a "no". So for the moment I consider we have two usable hubs:

1) city hub = 2ch PuP hub to my terminology, in my previous post.

2) technic hub = 4ch PuP hub to my terminology, in my previous post.

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5 minutes ago, Selander said:

When speaking about PuP hubs suitable for trains, I'd say boost hub is a "no".

 

You referred to LEGO statement about channels,  and my explanation of channels has nothing to do with trains only.

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6 hours ago, Selander said:

When speaking about PuP hubs suitable for trains, I'd say boost hub is a "no".

I'd modify the "no" in "Maybe better not"  :laugh_hard::laugh_hard::laugh_hard:

Lego Boost - Geared Locomotive

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138174786@N04/49111509501/in/datetaken-public/

Jokes apart - I think it "could" be suitable but only for bigger scales. It could be reeeally interesting in automated buildings like cranes, level crossings and so on...

Ciao! :sweet:

Davide

Edited by Paperinik77pk

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3 hours ago, Paperinik77pk said:

I'd modify the "no" in "Maybe better not"  :laugh_hard::laugh_hard::laugh_hard:

Jokes apart - I think it "could" be suitable but only for bigger scales. It could be reeeally interesting in automated buildings like cranes, level crossings and so on...

Yeah, the main functions of the Boost hub (or "Move Hub") that a standard Powered Up hub lacks are its tilt sensor and position motors, which give a little more control than linear motors, and can also be used as rotation sensors. So its main advantages would be for automating stuff that requires specific angular movement is needed.

Besides the examples you mentioned, turntables for railway roundhouses are another area where motors like that could be useful for a train layout. I know that in the past I've seen people use LEGO Mindstorms for that sort of thing. But even then, you can do that same sort of stuff with pretty much any other Powered Up hub and motor besides the train motor and medium linear motor, which are currently the only two motors available from LEGO shop that lack absolute positioning.

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12 hours ago, Aanchir said:

...... the train motor and medium linear motor, which are currently the only two motors available from LEGO shop that lack absolute positioning.

Sure? What you mean is the "simple medium linear motor" 45303 (the old  WeDo one, looking like a PF M-Motor), it has no tacho.
The one you mentioned, the " Medium Linear Motor " is 88008 and is a tacho motor.

And: the 45303: isn't available any more since a long time.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Lok24 said:

Sure? What you mean is the "simple medium linear motor" 45303 (the old  WeDo one, looking like a PF M-Motor), it has no tacho.
The one you mentioned, the " Medium Linear Motor " is 88008 and is a tacho motor.

And: the 45303: isn't available any more since a long time.

Oh! I stand corrected!

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yes, its really horrible with the LEGO naming of their componenets.

1 hour ago, M_slug357 said:

Why was the 45303 discontinued…? Maybe its getting a revamp…?

I don't kown, but it disappeared in the shop some months ago......

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Ok,... it's been quiet for a while now and I was thinking something terrible...  If I remember correctly I saw an interview with a LEGO designer that had to do with the Crocodile Locomotive.  He said that if LEGO was seeing proof that trains were still a hot item, i.e. they would sell enough copies of the Crocodile, they would consider making different models and try that.  Kind of like how the Modular Buildings started off.  So when the Crocodile came out, I did my part, and bought two copies of it on opening day.  Besides the fact that there is a little issue with the gears inside not turning smoothly; I still love the model and it's still proudly on one of my office shelves at home...

But the Crocodile was launched in 2020, and retired towards the end of 2021, so maybe 1.5 years of running time.  Did Lego think that was enough; because a) You guys are awesome, we sold a ton of them. We have a different model ready, so we're making room for the next one...  Or is it b) You guys sucked, we told you to buy this so that we would come with another one.  It was so bad that we pulled the Crocodile from the shelf, and now we're not giving you another model anymore...

I'm not really a positive person, like to think of myself as a realist;... so I'm now starting to think that "we all" are falling into the b) category according to Lego ???  The feeling is not leaving me alone that we might not have done well enough with the Crocodile, and that the comments we're making about the gaps in the body, the gears not working smooth, and the drive rods being too "Duplo looking" (I think that too, so I got some awesome ones from @zephyr1934)that Lego thought "that's enough, we gave them a train, and now they're ripping it apart.  We're ending it here"....

I want to be very wrong here, but am I the only one that thinks that Lego tried, wanted to see the reaction, but didn't think it was worth more ?

What do you guys think ?...

Edited by Wimmer

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