LEGO Trains 2022

[Lok24]

16 hours ago, Amoreternum said:

Small Creator cars don't come with a street or working steering either, why demand something equivalent, like tracks or turning bogies, here?

The children I play with have an age af 2 an4 years and a Duplo train, they would never use the Duplo Loco without the tracks.

Why should they do when tey are seven years old?

Edited December 6, 2021 by Lok24

[Black Knight]

11 hours ago, Toastie said:

I don't know what @zephyr1934 was implying - but of course the market leader may not be interested in doing it.

Both, the market leader and the small competitors get their >raw material< at the same price. Well, the market leader gets it definitely cheaper, or they should simply go out of business. It is the year 2021 - and making plastic bricks with some finesse has matured into a broadly available technology. To all.

And then ... OVERHEAD strikes - heavily. As well as ... the (very) well-being of the employees ... and the employers ... and so on and so forth.

It would be interesting to learn what fraction of the retail value of a newly released set goes into OVERHEAD (that number will be - crazy, I guess).

As an example: My university charges currently about 70% of the volume of a research contract as OVERHEAD. That dissolves into - well - THE ADMINISTRATION . No idea what they do with that money other than hiring more people to secure that all is handled correctly. It appears as if this system is a perfect perpetuum mobile, violating all laws of thermodynamics. And it appears as if nobody can do anything about it - other than increasing the percentage of the OVERHEAD. Which in turn suggests that thermodynamics is still doing fine and the system is just stupid enough to along with it.

Which may be >one< reason why TLGs products become insanely expensive, when you ask me. Whereas the small competitors sell their products insanely cheap. Well, I guess it depends on your perspective.

 

Well, no; actually it's the other way round: Large companies have LESS overhead as they take advantage of economies of scale. And we actually do know how much of the money you pay for a LEGO set will land in Kristiansen's pocket:

In 2020 TLG had a business volume of 5.9 billion EUR. And they made a revenue of 1.7 billion EUR. So for every Euro/Dollar/etc. you pay, 29 cents go directly to Kristiansen. 29%!

No way any of the other brick manufacturers has an EBIT margin as mindboggingly high as that of TLG. Heck, not even Apple has an operating profit margin this high.

TLG does not avoid magnets (or whatever) because they cannot, but because they do not want to. Maybe else they would have to move some of their production to low-cost countries or fire some quality control engineers to get to the same profitability.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Black Knight
fix typo

[zephyr1934]

17 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

So you say they market leader is unable to do what the small competitors can afford?

Oh, no, Lego could probably buy a few small countries if they wanted to. It is not a matter of lego being unable to do something, it is a matter of Lego having a bunch of economists and MBA's who figured out how to maximize profit. So they have a limit on the number of sets they will produce per year (and it gets really complicated when they consider size, theme, target audience, etc.). Balance it all with the production cost (including licensing if applicable) and they wind up with some ranked priority (e.g., Lego IDEAS and the BL designer program are simple examples where we can see the process play out, the process for the normal sets is much more complex and very much proprietary). The trains are only high enough to result in the occasional round of sets. Meanwhile, these specialized nooks that are too small for the whale to be interested in are just the right size for the sharks or dolphins or some other smaller fish (don't tell me dolphins are mammals) to come in and do their own smaller scale production.

[JopieK]

It is a never ending story about TLG and trains. We should just try to enjoy Trains, even though it is a niche within the entire LEGO spectrum it is one that LEGO won't easily abandon. We probably won't see the 12V gray train era wealth of train sets back, but we still have nice trains that either provide us with parts for MOC's or with some we can MOD them to make them better. I think TLG could make trains profitable but then again, we are not the main target group even though LEGO now is focusing more on AFOLs.

[Amoreternum]

10 hours ago, Lok24 said:

The children I play with have an age af 2 an4 years and a Duplo train, they would never use the Duplo Loco without the tracks.

Why should they do when tey are seven years old?

Now would they if it had not come with tracks in the set? :D I mean, there are already trains aimed at young children in the age of the children you're refering to in Legos line-up without tracks that are not compatible with any of the systems available. Don't get me wrong, I understand where all you guys are coming from and get your point - but I just can't see the connection between 1.) seeing this set and  2 .) asuming that Lego hates trains, just to use a rather dubious phrase from parts of the german speaking community.

 

@zephyr1934 Could not agree more! At least in my eyes, that's a very fitting comparison.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Amoreternum

[dr_spock]

My nephew was more than happy to get a Creator Emerald Express without tracks when he visited. Then again a sample size of one kid is not really statistically significant.

 

 

 

[Stuartn]

OK, its official. TLG has lost the plot in my opinion.

I've only just noticed that the high speed train is listed as a creator expert set. Originally I had no issue with the set as AFOLs clearly aren't the target audience, but now I know it is marketed as an expert set (https://www.lego.com/en-us/themes/creator-expert) I see where people are coming from.

[Amoreternum]

Well that's obviously a mistake on their part - the packaging has been known for a few days now and it's definitely a regular Creator set aimed at kids, no black 18+ packaging or sth like that.

[Stuartn]

1 hour ago, Amoreternum said:

Well that's obviously a mistake on their part - the packaging has been known for a few days now and it's definitely a regular Creator set aimed at kids, no black 18+ packaging or sth like that.

There have been some issues lately, for example a Ninjago temple set shown as a modular and the ATST as a CMF, but it is certainly an unfortunately mistake for this set

Edited December 7, 2021 by Stuartn

[Toastie]

3 hours ago, Stuartn said:

There have been some issues lately, for example a Ninjago temple set shown as a modular and the ATST as a CMF, but it is certainly an unfortunately mistake for this set

Heehee ... citing Thomas Panke (in his recent YouTube review of the HMS Hood from Cobi, where he goes nuts on the color vomit having arrived there as well and the instruction booklets, which are a bit off the rails):

"... that (person) is the counterpart to the trainee at LEGO, who designs the Friends sets and runs the website."

Best
Thorsten

 

{translation from German by me; source (@ about 16:50)} - have fun!

 

[AndreMW]

BB Trains are more or less crap, either the bricks are of changing quality or the designs are mediocre or the trains are breaking apart when in normal use. Also, most of them have a very limited availability.

[dtomsen]

29 minutes ago, AndreMW said:

BB Trains are more or less crap, either the bricks are of changing quality or the designs are mediocre or the trains are breaking apart when in normal use. Also, most of them have a very limited availability.

Not that I disagree but the same can be said of modern LEGO trains without making them all crap 

Edited December 7, 2021 by dtomsen

[Craig Strader]

3 minutes ago, AndreMW said:

BB Trains are more or less crap, either the bricks are of changing quality or the designs are mediocre or the trains are breaking apart when in normal use. Also, most of them have a very limited availability.

Probably because no one wants to buy them either because they not only look inadequate but also they don't put in enough effort to make something decent

[dtomsen]

Yeah sure, let's generalize in our bashing 

Edited December 7, 2021 by dtomsen

[Toastie]

30 minutes ago, AndreMW said:

BB Trains are more or less crap, either the bricks are of changing quality or the designs are mediocre or the trains are breaking apart when in normal use.

I'll find out soon - Santa will bring me 4 BB coaches for Christmas. I am pretty sure he will, as I spotted the box in the garage (this is where they put all the boxes when we are gone - so I did not spy!!! I was just getting my bike ... I swear

I will then report back.

Got some crap parts in a Black Pearl clone set two years ago - but: Crap out, LEGO bricks in - the latter don't scream nor do they melt or ex/implode when you do that. Have even a few original LEGO wheel sets at hand - in BB sets they are the WORST ever, so I have read. But: Design is nice (for me), and I like to try out things. Also, the financial burden is - well - not THAT dramatic, even when this turns out to be a total fail (as the new LEGO high-speed 4-wide train is - OK it is not that bad, I am kidding)

All the best,
Thorsten

   

24 minutes ago, Craig Strader said:

Probably because no one wants to buy them either because they not only look inadequate but also they don't put in enough effort to make something decent

I'll find out soon ... upps OK, already wrote that . So this accounts to: no-one minus one = minus one. Phew. That makes me negative ... provided no-one equals to zero.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Toastie

[dr_spock]

4 hours ago, Toastie said:

Heehee ... citing Thomas Panke (in his recent YouTube review of the HMS Hood from Cobi, where he goes nuts on the color vomit having arrived there as well and the instruction booklets, which are a bit off the rails):

 

Sounds like Cobi has figured out economy of scale.  Better volume discount when you buy only a few types of colorants in larger quantities than many colors in smaller quantities. Then use them everywhere you can in your products.

[Toastie]

32 minutes ago, dr_spock said:

Sounds like Cobi has figured out economy of scale

Yeah, seems so.

There is some discussion on that though - it must be that a mega-ton of DBG/LBG is more expensive than 1000 kilo-tons of thousand colors + the cost of having either a machine (or a person - I have no clue what the current pay-level in Poland is, given that the company my wife is working at is shifting entire administration departments from their German, French, and Brexity branches to Poland) sorting all the colors and put them into the bags ... in contrast to using just a shovel OK, just kidding!!!

Hmm. I guess the 1000 kilo-tons can be used in many more sets ... they certainly have calculated that to the last cent.

Business ...

Best
Thorsten

Edited December 7, 2021 by Toastie

[Amoreternum]

Never understood the issue with the so-called Farbseuche, or in english color... plague, epidemic, I don't know? But the german community gets triggered everytime that word is uttered :D at least parts of it.

 

Regarding the quality of BB - they could be SO. MUCH. MORE. successful and run the train hobby on their own if they put out quality. Sure, the V100 does not look to bad (I wanted to buy one myself but it's sold out atm), but on the other hand their upcoming 8w-locos are bad to decent looking, at best, 6w is terrible in gerneral. Their rolling stock is not too bad, I got two cars and have more coming but there are a lot of really unneccessary and therefore annoying issues, like axles that are too short, wheels that have ridiculous rolling resistance... but I agree, swap the bad parts for better ones, problem solved. 

[M_slug357]

@Amoreternum Is BB’s brown brittle too…?

[legotownlinz]

7 hours ago, Toastie said:

I'll find out soon

Me too. I will get my order of a few coaches and the crossing this week.

So far I bought only a few third party modulars and tracks, but otherwise kept my part collection Lego-only. I'm now thinking about mixing all parts. The decision depends on whether I see a perspective in buying mostly Lego. But being interested in trains, I'm pessimistic.

[Toastie]

1 minute ago, legotownlinz said:

Me too. I will get my order of a few coaches and the crossing this week.

So we are "no one" minus two.  

Will be interesting to read about experience. So far, I mixed-up bricks for my Black Pearl only. The Flying Dutchman from Mould King did not need any replacement, in contrast. We'll see. However, with regard to mixing bricks: I have had it with TLGs train theme. I'll definitely go that route.

Best + good luck with your order!

Thorsten

6 hours ago, Amoreternum said:

I wanted to buy one myself but it's sold out

Well, they give away the instructions for free, as TLG does ...

Best
Thorsten

6 hours ago, Amoreternum said:

or in english color... plague, epidemic, I don't know?

As a German, I am in no way qualified to make any suggestions in this regard - but I read "color vomit" somewhere, which gives it a certain interesting spin :D

As does when the sh*t hits the fan :D

Best
Thorsten

[legotownlinz]

13 hours ago, Toastie said:

So we are "no one" minus two.  

Will be interesting to read about experience.

It would be really helpful to share experience with Bluebrixx trains. The problem is, the forum rules say that competitor brand discussions are allowed in the Community section, so I assume there should be no Bluebrixx discussion here in the Trains forum. In my opinion this rule needs to be changed because nearly all train-related products nowadays are made by competitors.

On 12/7/2021 at 5:16 AM, Stuartn said:

OK, its official. TLG has lost the plot in my opinion.

I've only just noticed that the high speed train is listed as a creator expert set. Originally I had no issue with the set as AFOLs clearly aren't the target audience, but now I know it is marketed as an expert set (https://www.lego.com/en-us/themes/creator-expert) I see where people are coming from.

There are several indications that Lego also targeted the AFOL market with this set:

• Listing it in the Creator Expert section
• Absence of children on the lifestyle photo
• Review samples were provided to AFOL YouTube channels, e.g. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by legotownlinz

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, legotownlinz said:

t would be really helpful to share experience with Bluebrixx trains. The problem is, the forum rules say that competitor brand discussions are allowed in the Community section, so I assume there should be no Bluebrixx discussion here in the Trains forum. In my opinion this rule needs to be changed because nearly all train-related products nowadays are made by competitors.

Totally agree here!

Two options: We just do it here and wait and see when it will be moved to the Community Forum (hopefully, not along with a bunch of other competitor discussion containing threads ) or we directly open a thread in the Community forum.

Well after all, a lot of non-LEGO stuff is discussed here - it appears as if the rules - maybe due to the rather low number of decent train sets that came out over the past decade. Don't even talk about track ...

Best
Thorsten 

[Phil B]

How about a separate Bluebrixx train topic here in this channel, and have ALL the Bluebrixx discussion there?

[Lyichir]

Regarding this train being listed in the Creator Expert section, that's likely less because it's aimed at older audiences (the age mark is 7+, after all), and more because it is NOT a Creator 3-in-1 set (with only one model). Perhaps if Lego intends to release more sets in the Creator theme that do not have alternate builds they will need to revise those web categories, but for the time being it would be incredibly misleading for them to put a model like this in the Creator 3-in-1 category with other simpler Creator sets.