Beware of BlueBrixx Double Crossover

[legotownlinz]

I received a few BlueBrixx items. The double crossover is the first on I'd like to review because it is severely flawed. The BlueBrixx double crossover is a replacement for Lego's double crossover (7996) that is not produced anymore. Let's start with the positive aspects:

• Flat (not warped)
• Same color and finish as Lego switches.
• Flat mechanism (no lever arm) that does not interfere with trains with long wheelbase.
• Good latching feedback when operating the switch 

But: The spring mechanism doesn't work correctly! A train coming from either of the converging directs should pass through the points onto the narrow end, regardless of the position of the points, as the vehicle's wheels will force the points to move. However, when force opening the points of the BlueBrixx switch the point blade does not go fully back to the original position and the next train passing the facing point derails. Watch it in the video:

The problem happens with all four switches of this double crossover and I'm pretty sure it is a design issue and not an issue with my purchase only.

If you want me to execute further tests please let me know because I'll send it back to BlueBrixx soon.

Edited December 12, 2021 by legotownlinz
Typos, typos, typos

[Toastie]

This is a very helpful hint!

[Shouldn't we open a BB thread (I have zero problems with having that in the Community forum; however, there are so many "3rd" party things happening here - which are super helpful!!! - why not a BB thread?]

Quick question: Are the parts for the crossover injection molded?

And another one: When you turn it over: Are there tiny "girder type" occupied holes, which may my used to "easily" open the assembly? Or screws? Or is this boldly glued?

Thank you very much for the info!

Best,
Thorsten 

EDIT: Shoot, another one: Can you easily force back the point blade back into place?
EDIT: If so, it appears as if the friction between the point blade and the enclosure is too high? (Dry) Lubrication?

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Toastie

[legotownlinz]

32 minutes ago, Toastie said:

Quick question: Are the parts for the crossover injection molded?

Yes

Btw, there are several other reviews on YouTube which confirm the issue. 

[M_slug357]

@legotownlinz i have some stock Lego switches that also stick like that (but maybe not as pronounced).

What would be a good remedy though? Some light sanding of the adjacent parts sound less messy than lubricant.

[Toastie]

3 minutes ago, M_slug357 said:

What would be a good remedy though? Some light sanding of the adjacent parts sound less messy than lubricant.

Hmm. I'd say yes: Dry lubricant, no silicone or the like. The powered stuff.

On the other hand: When this issue is overcome by actively throwing the switch, I don't see any problems when you use either manual control and/or motorized switch drives.

Best
Thorsten

[dr_spock]

Maybe lube with graphite or PTFE?   Isn't that how switches supposed to work in real life?  Your conductor doesn't throw the switch correctly and the train derails?  Aren't we modeling real life?

 

[legotownlinz]

I have no plans to fix it or develop a workaround. I simply return this crap and keep buying the 3D-printed Trixbrix double crossover which works fine.

[dtomsen]

17 minutes ago, legotownlinz said:

I have no plans to fix it or develop a workaround. I simply return this crap and keep buying the 3D-printed Trixbrix double crossover which works fine.

True. TrixBrix 3d printed stuff generally works fine but has really poor clutch underneath which makes ballasting both difficult and underwhelming.

Just a heads-up 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by dtomsen

[Toastie]

21 minutes ago, legotownlinz said:

I have no plans to fix it or develop a workaround.

Hmm. Not throwing a switch actively is already a workaround, isn't it?

I will go with the crap and just throw the points; they are either all straight or all diverging (anything else does not make sense). This then will work fine, I believe - well it works with the LEGO cross over, which is an utter failure in itself, blade position wise ; just get the stupid point blade driving rods, springs and whatnot out, and let the nylon wires do the work: 

Never had any failure on this one.

Best,
Thorsten

[kage28]

I had a similar experience with a replica 7996. Returing was not an option for me, so I had to attempt a fix, or it is $$$ down the drain.

In my case, the mechanism was not working as intended due to the sliding adjuster interacting with the springs wasn't in the correct position.

Prying open the back cover and re-sitting the catch of the sliding adjuster between the 2 prongs of the internal spring did the trick for me.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by kage28

[CaL]

Dear all,

Bricked4you showed a nice and cheap quick-fix for this problem on his youtube-channel:

https://youtu.be/wY7W04JZKjw

 

 

CaL

Edited December 13, 2021 by CaL

[Toastie]

47 minutes ago, CaL said:

Bricked4you showed a nice and cheap quick-fix for this problem on his youtube-channel

Nice one!

I believe he also has an earlier(?) video, where he "removes" the bottom plate and then inspects the cause of the failure, which is simply caused by a design flaw, as there is no spring - or, as in some versions of e.g., the FX points, rubber bands - retracting the blade into position.

Just one note on the latter video: The way he removes the bottom plate is simply >brutal< . Using a (new or sharp) drill bit (2 - 3 mm diameter) for manually removing all the heads of the riveted bolt type connections of bottom and top (I believe they are secured by applying some heat to the bolt head sticking out a bit upon assembly), allows you to remove the base without using any force. Also, you can nicely reattach the bottom to the top part by applying >very tiny< spots of superglue here and there, not where the bolts are but at the borders. This way the bottom part can be removed and reattached several times, which should not be necessary - but who knows. A drill press with carefully adjusted end stop works as well, but I like to "feel" when the flattened head is removed. I did that years ago with all my 9V points (to let the lever move almost freely) and the LEGO cross over (to install the mechanism shown above). All points work flawlessly for years now after that treatment

In conclusion: €30 + design flaw is a very good deal for me.

Best,
Thorsten       

[*thomas*]

Thanks for the review (had seen a few on youtube). Also in favour of a BB thread. Many third parties have a dedicated thread, so I see no problem in discussing BB on here... 

[dr_spock]

Has anyone tried 3D printing the double cross-over from 4D Brix?  Is it any good? 

[legotownlinz]

On 12/13/2021 at 12:33 PM, Toastie said:

In conclusion: €30 + design flaw is a very good deal for me.

42 Euro for a double crossover without flaws is a better deal: https://trixbrix.eu/en_US/p/Double-Crossover/58

2 hours ago, dr_spock said:

Has anyone tried 3D printing the double cross-over from 4D Brix?  Is it any good? 

As you can buy the same from TrixBrix off-the-shelf it makes no sense to print it yourself.

[Toastie]

2 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

42 Euro for a double crossover without flaws is a better deal

Well, that depends on your perspective. To be honest, I value injection molded pieces as far superior over printed pieces. Clutch-wise, duration-wise, and the looks ;) 

And me tinkering with the material. :D

2 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

As you can buy the same from TrixBrix off-the-shelf it makes no sense to print it yourself.

That's a bold statement: Let's assume you have a decent 3D printer, and you know how to operate that thing, and you have the files. Then it does not get any cheaper than printing yourself. It comes down to the raw material - which is dead cheap. Let's also assume it is fun to do so ... that does not get any better.

So in essence there seem to be folks, who want a reasonably priced working double cross over, there are folks who like the crisp look of injection molded stuff and will have a go on the design, and there are folks who just - well - print the stuff that works.

All are happy! Win-win-win.

Best,
Thorsten

 

[zephyr1934]

message no longer applicable...

[AndreMW]

The BB switches are bolted/melted in a way that you need a drill that is bigger than what you would expect. There is also quite some warping of the switches. The Trixbrix switches are qualitywise as good as injection moulded ones. And a printer delivering their quality costs 4 digits.

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

On 12/13/2021 at 12:35 AM, legotownlinz said:

I have no plans to fix it or develop a workaround. I simply return this crap and keep buying the 3D-printed Trixbrix double crossover which works fine.

LOL  

[Toastie]

Well, this is what @legotownlinz said

• Flat (not warped)
• Same color and finish as Lego switches.
• ... 

so I believe it depends. It shouldn't be like that, of course! Also, time goes by (according to Madonna ).

6 hours ago, AndreMW said:

And a printer delivering their quality costs 4 digits.

Oh, sure. As I said: Let's assume you have a decent 3D printer ... and use it on a day-to-day basis for something else.

Spoiler

We have a decent one in the lab, which was close to the 5 digit margin. I have no clue how to operate that thing, but some folks having all the fun in lab (I just hide out in my office ;)) do. Whenever feasible they 3D-print CAD generated rather complex (but small) pieces, inspect them, make corrections where necessary, and then the CAD model goes into the pretty well-equipped machine shop I happen to have as well, to make that piece from stainless steel or the like. It saves a lot of time - and the investment for that printer has paid off multiple times.

Buying a printer for the purpose of printing switch points does of course not make any sense.

Best
Thorsten

[legotownlinz]

9 hours ago, Toastie said:

Well, this is what @legotownlinz said

• Flat (not warped)
• Same color and finish as Lego switches.
• ... 

Yeah, if there wouldn't have been the problem with the spring mechanism, I would have been perfectly happy. When I unpacked it, it was like "wow, great". But then I integrated it my layout and the trains derailed. 

[legotownlinz]

In the meantime I have sent the double switch back to BlueBrixx and got a refund. But they did not refund the shipping costs which would be required by EU laws in case of a defect ("Reklamation" in German). I could open a case in PayPal, but I don't think it is worth the troubles.

I also asked why they still offer the product in their web store although they know it is defective. I got no answer, instead they blocked me on their Facebook group. Imho this is close to fraud, it looks like they hope that customers don't send it back because the shipping costs are 50% of the product's price.

To sum up, I'm not only disappointed by the low quality of their products, but also by their business conduct.

[Toastie]

9 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

I also asked why they still offer the product in their web store although they know it is defective. I got no answer, instead they blocked me on their Facebook group.

A couple of issues come to mind:

BB not replying: Totally stupid. No way to turn around that one; every customer service knows that when the going gets tough, just be like a strawberry: Sweet, red and innocent. (Just curious, though: Your inquiry was of what kind? "Hey, this piece of crap is defective, I want a refund", or was it more in the direction: "Your product does not work as expected") ?

Blocking from Facebook group: Hmm. Bad, stupid ... nothing more to say ...

I don't believe that "defective" is the correct term, though. Nothing appears to be "defective" here; it does not work as expected, i.e., as from the "superior" TLG version, right? OK, that one was equally flawed, as it does not allow having both tracks going straight, which is also equally crazy, isn't it?

The price of that thing is a whopping 30€(!). They actually charge 15€ for shipping??? I paid next to nothing for four rather large carriages ... but I am living in Germany. May that be the reason for the very high shipping costs?

I am really curious(!), as I have a different experience with BB. And I am wondering why that is.

Best,
Thorsten

 

 

 

[legotownlinz]

12 hours ago, Toastie said:

BB not replying: Totally stupid. No way to turn around that one; every customer service knows that when the going gets tough, just be like a strawberry: Sweet, red and innocent. (Just curious, though: Your inquiry was of what kind? "Hey, this piece of crap is defective, I want a refund", or was it more in the direction: "Your product does not work as expected") ?

The email conversation was polite.

 

12 hours ago, Toastie said:

Blocking from Facebook group: Hmm. Bad, stupid ... nothing more to say ...

I wrote pretty much the same there as here. Of course a discussion started with mostly complaints about the quality of BlueBrixx. I understand that they do not want 95% negative comments in their group. But blocking people only moves the discussion to groups outside their control. Not so smart.

If you still read their Facebook group: Be aware that the comments there do not represent the true customer (dis)satisfaction.

12 hours ago, Toastie said:

They actually charge 15€ for shipping?

I paid 15 Euros to send it back.

 

12 hours ago, Toastie said:

I don't believe that "defective" is the correct term, though. Nothing appears to be "defective" here; it does not work as expected, i.e., as from the "superior" TLG version, right?

I guess BlueBrixx also believes their product is not defective. But a spring mechanism is part of any model railroad switch I've seen so far. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by legotownlinz

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, legotownlinz said:

If you still read their Facebook group

No, I am not on Facebook - I am more or less just here on EB when it comes to LEGO. And I am very thankful that people like you and all the others are here as well and share their honest thoughts . Thank you very much again!

15€ for postage for that thing is really stiff. Oh well, I sure hope that you have fun with the alternative product! And that you get over this real quick.

All the best,
Thorsten