Lego David

This is why Ninjago should end

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Hey y'all, I just wrote an article for my pall BrickinTALM over at his blog about why I personally believe Ninjago should end. If you're in for a fascinating read which you may or may not agree with, definitely check out the link below, and give the article a read.

https://thesavantbrick.com/ninjagos-end-why-lego-ninjago-needs-to-end/

After you've read it, you can also leave your thoughts on the article below and discuss it!

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All right, I read it all and I'm totally disagree with you. No offense, but all I see is a frustrated AFOL whining over a theme that isn't his target anymore. Even I'd dare to say that modern action and adventure themes are not your target anymore. If I'm remember correctly, you are the same guy that didn't liked Monkie Kid's Space Shuttle set because that would mean LEGO won't make Classic Space stuff. I mean, it isn't a bad thing you don't like Ninjago or Monkie Kid, it's okay. The issue is that, on the way I see it, you are  constantly making negative comments about every single wave of Ninjago and Monkie Kid and that could make that fans that really enjoy both themes feel bad about their tastes. I'm secure you can find some modern theme that you actually like. I don't know, maybe Creator Expert or Technic. Anyways, that's what I think. I'm sorry if I sound agressive or something.

Edited by Bloquerto

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Did you see the rules about Self Promotion for the forum? We're not a billboard for other blogs/sites/articles. A whole thread to direct traffic from the site to another blog is not exactly kosher.

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19 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

Did you see the rules about Self Promotion for the forum? We're not a billboard for other blogs/sites/articles. A whole thread to direct traffic from the site to another blog is not exactly kosher.

Oh, sorry, I didn't know there was rule against that. The topic may be closed if it is against the rules. I'll keep that in mind for the future, though! 

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2 hours ago, Bloquerto said:

All right, I read it all and I'm totally disagree with you. No offense, but all I see is a frustrated AFOL whining over a theme that isn't his target anymore. Even I'd dare to say that modern action and adventure themes are not your target anymore. If I'm remember correctly, you are the same guy that didn't liked Monkie Kid's Space Shuttle set because that would mean LEGO won't make Classic Space stuff. I mean, it isn't a bad thing you don't like Ninjago or Monkie Kid, it's okay. The issue is that, on the way I see it, you are  constantly making negative comments about every single wave of Ninjago and Monkie Kid and that could make that fans that really enjoy both themes feel bad about their tastes. I'm secure you can find some modern theme that you actually like. I don't know, maybe Creator Expert or Technic. Anyways, that's what I think. I'm sorry if I sound agressive or something.

the approach to argue in a decent manner is to be appreciated. There's a lot of bad "trolling" behaviour going on in the Lego community unfortunately.

That being said I also have to disagree. People somehow seem to approach a profit oriented toy company, like it's supposed to serve their nostalgic wishes.  And unlike blue bricks or mega blocks Lego is much more targeted towards younger kids. I also dislike this. I like how other (cheaper) brands are more colour consistant, more studless etc. But I get Lego sets are mostly not done for me. It's very narcissistic and paranoid to assume always that our wishes and visions are the right ones and there is a conspiracy against us. Buy it and modify it. Or just don't buy it.

Lego has become scared of inhouse themes. They made some bad decisions (vidyo) but even Nexo knights, Hidden Side and Elves which were decent or even great were failing in the end and could not be established long terms.

We live in a universe dominated by existing brands. Every film studio is scared of creating something new. Even to the point where they attach new ideas somehow to an existing franchise. Lego is wise to test the waters via City, Creator and Ninjago. IF one of these specific waves is such a huge success then they may will create something in this direction. But of course sets will be a thematic mess. Except for SW EVERY theme is a thematic mess. Which makes it more accessible for a broader audience. Every wave a kid can get a mech or a jet, motorcycle, car or medevil style location based set from ninjago.

This balance is why it works. Noone cares about what sets we'd prefer, except for a small minority of self centered adults that consume children products. And yes I am part of that group but I am aware of my position and Lego's position as a COMPANY.

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Dude if you don’t like it just don’t watch or buy it. Constant negativity isn’t good for you and your constant negativity isn’t any good for this forum. You seem convinced that if ninjago ends then lego will go back to doing classic themes and it won’t. It just won’t. If ninjago ends then we just get more Star Wars, Harry Potter, and marvel/DC.

And about all the arguments of “oversized” vehicles and forced play features, I’ll just say that if you’re mad a toy company is making toys, get another hobby. They’re not supposed to just be put on a shelf, they’re supposed to be played with.

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As much as I'd like to see full classic wave of sets on Pirates/Space/Castle, I still see ninjago doing original things, like Game World, pseudo Islanders, Dungeons and Dragons, and Aquazone type of sets, that likely simply would not have existed as main themes or single waves.

It's easier for LEGO to keep those niche type of scenarios under the Ninjago theme, as we've seen recent themes that aren't succesful disappear quickly, recent examples being the last waves of LEGO Movie 2, Hidden Side, Vidiyo etc.

 

In a time where movies/series/video games constantly get Remake/Remaster instead of getting new concepts I still think Ninjago gives its unique take on the recent subthemes, I know Legacy basicly was all about remakes of old sets but that's changing for 2022.

 

A team of the same minifig characters might get repetitive but it's clearly some formula that works most of the time, see Chima, Nexo, Friends, and now Monkie Kid as the new team-based theme, not to mention how many Harry and Luke figures are made for HP and SW.

 

Also just because we see ninjago for 10 years, that also means 10 years of new kids getting to age 4-6 getting their first ninjago LEGO sets.

I think Ninjago still does a great job on the sets that aren't vehicles, in fact somewhat better then Nexo Knights in many seasons, Nexo had 2 great castle sets (+ a mobile castle) but even more focus on vehicles compared to Ninjago.

I don't even watch the show/movie, I base this purely on the LEGO products.

 

Even if Ninjago would end, I don't think LEGO would return to it's old ways.

All said, 2022 still looks like an interesting year of LEGO Space with multiple themes going for it.

 

Edited by TeriXeri

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3 hours ago, mrfang2 said:

Constant negativity isn’t good for you and your constant negativity isn’t any good for this forum

So we're supposed to just cheer and applaud everything LEGO does? I get that maybe I may be a bit to negative sometimes, but that doesn't mean we can't criticize something we invest so much of our time and money into. 

Any person who takes their hobby seriously is gonna also have criticisms. Otherwise, we're just mindless consumers. 

I will try to express my thoughts in a more positive light on this forum in the future though. 

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22 minutes ago, Lego David said:

So we're supposed to just cheer and applaud everything LEGO does? I get that maybe I may be a bit to negative sometimes, but that doesn't mean we can't criticize something we invest so much of our time and money into. 

Any person who takes their hobby seriously is gonna also have criticisms. Otherwise, we're just mindless consumers. 

I will try to express my thoughts in a more positive light on this forum in the future though. 

first let me just say I apologize if I worded that badly, especially in the first post and hopefully not in this post but I’m bad at tonal regulation over text so it may still be worded imperfectly. I’m a bit frustrated at how overly negative these forums have been getting towards anything made to be an actual toy, and I let that slip into my wording here, so I am sorry for that. 

Now to actually reply,
It’s not that you should just cheer and applaud mindlessly, it’s more of not subjecting yourself to stuff you very clearly hate. Money is what speaks to companies. People didn’t like vidiyo, so they didn’t buy vidiyo and it went away. If you’re watching all the content and engaging with it constantly, lego takes that as a good  sign. If you just let it go, then that’s one less viewer for them, and a lot less anger for you.


Also, people who do enjoy ninjago and want to engage with it generally don’t enjoy having the thing they like torn into EVERY TIME a new product or story is revealed. How would you feel if you loved something and EVERYWHERE you looked people were complaining and trying to get it canceled. That’s what I find nearly every time I try to engage with the afol community. Hidden side, nexo knights, ultra agents, ninjago, monkie kid, every single time. It makes me hesitant to ever engage with discussions on this or other similar sites.

Edited by mrfang2

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Eh, I disagree with the overall, but agree on some points. 

The rehashing of setup design- bikes, mech, jets & cars- clearly sell with kids, otherwise I doubt they’d continue popping them out. It’s the same with City, police & Fire on repeat despite the other aspects of a city they could focus on. Ninjago ending doesn’t mean a return to anything. I feel it weren’t to end, another theme much like it, and every action theme, would take its place. I’ve always been interested in the theme but haven’t gotten much from it, but that’s more to do with other sets taking precedent. 

I can agree with the mish mash of where they’ve gone with the theme, it’s definitely drifted from what Ninjago started as. I did buy many of the Digi theme though, the dragons & the Temple. Hard to say why they didn’t go the original one-off themes instead of attaching it to Ninjago...best guess is they felt better about the attachment(or had the focus group to solidify it). 

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Ninjago has been consistently one of the best themes in terms of "what you get". How many universally useful molds, prints and sets did we get from that theme? For some of the sets you just need to put off some weird blades and they'd fit into many anime, military, super hero or sci-fi themes. With much better deals then you'd ever get from most other themes.

Nexo knights, hidden side or chima were way less useful in terms of prints, molds and sets. Now as much as I also personally love Ninjago and see potential in it: if it ends and gets replaced by another potent theme or like 2 other themes - I'd be happy for the new theme and maybe new energy + innovation. But will that be the case? I think Ninjago only exists still because it is an established brand. There is always an existing fanbase and there is a working recipe for new fans. Kids walk in a store and anyone sees something they like: mech, car, creature, location, etc.

But will that happen? Will they boldly put a crazy amount of ressources and research into a new theme? I was always curious how Ninjago could even happen. Like it or not: but just that they put so much money into a soundtrack for a toy commercial was crazy. But they did put in the effort and it did work out. Ninjago will not be forgotten like some of the other 3y themes.

I'm afraid Lego will just be more dependent on licences which means for us: bad quality (prints, molds), bad prices and not the same creativity. Like Star Wars or not: it's basically a bunch of grey ships & vehicles, sometimes with a bit of red, white and tan.

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2 hours ago, mrfang2 said:

Also, people who do enjoy ninjago and want to engage with it generally don’t enjoy having the thing they like torn into EVERY TIME a new product or story is revealed. How would you feel if you loved something and EVERYWHERE you looked people were complaining and trying to get it canceled. That’s what I find nearly every time I try to engage with the afol community. Hidden side, nexo knights, ultra agents, ninjago, monkie kid, every single time. It makes me hesitant to ever engage with discussions on this or other similar sites

I can definitely understand and relate to that sentiment. Stuff like Bionicle and Hero Factory, themes which I loved, have been the target of "this needs to go" ever since they came out and right until they ended, so I can understand why some people may feel the same about Ninjago. 

But as someone who actually is a veteran fan of Ninjago, being into theme ever since it debuted back in 2011, I can't help but feel disappointed at what is has ended up becoming. That's why I felt the need to express my opinion, and I do feel confident in most of the points I made. 

 

Edited by Lego David

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Ninjago gave us Ninjago City, Docks and Gardens not to mention the wonderful Airjitzu Temple and several great Destiny's Bounties. Just for that I forgive them every and any shortcomings in other areas.

Having said that, I mostly agree with Lego David. The TV show was pretty good up until the "Hunted" season and went downhill from there. No character development, run-of-the-mill bad guys, very predictable story lines. And talking about the Lego sets, I mean just look at the pictures for the upcoming 2022 wave. The biggest bad guy vehicle / structure is a forgettable helicopter. Same with the Legacy sets. Only ninja stuff, the largest bad guy set is a 30$ dragon, that's it. Recently only the Master of the Mountain wave had quite a few and good qualitiy bad guy sets.

My son is 10 years old and one of the biggest Ninjago fans in town, but even he seems to be ready to move on. He still needs that Hydro Bounty though... :wink:

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3 hours ago, Rotbart said:

Having said that, I mostly agree with Lego David. The TV show was pretty good up until the "Hunted" season and went downhill from there.

That is easily explained by the fact that the Hagemen Brothers, the masterminds behind most of the show's concepts and plotlines, left writing Ninjago after the "Hunted" season, and unsurprisingly, the show has been going downhill ever since that point. 

I would even argue that they were one of the biggest reasons why the Ninjago show became such a success in the first place, and now that they're gone, it just isn't the same. 

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This is such a lazily constructed argument, I'm impressed that this is a still-standing topic given it's self-promotion but also that people seem to think it has a point? Which, I just don't think is true, in the slightest.

The main takeaway from this, that actually seems to be the thesis beyond "Ninjago is bad because it hasn't had meaningful character progression in years" (which is NOT a bug, it's a feature- literally any long-running program like this has to be like this otherwise it doesn't draw in new viewers and old viewers drop off) and "the sets confuse me because they swap aesthetics so often" (which again... I don't even like Ninjago but like that's not a bug, that's just literally what makes the theme appealing for outsiders like me)- is that Ninjago sucks the life out of potential new IP and the main reason new IP isn't succeeding is because they don't put the same kind of budget behind it.

First off, there's a couple issues with this theory:

  • There's no reason to push so much (more?) money into a singular original new theme while what works so well also continues to do very well. 
  • How are themes like Monkie Kid, Hidden Side, Nexo Knights, Chima, and other recent original themes like Vidiyo not getting everything possible they need to succeed? This one actually puzzles me. They all are multimedia projects and serious money is being put into the animated series or app they launch with. I just don't agree with this take, period. I just don't think any of these themes hit with consumers despite the LEGO group's best efforts. There may have been intentional sabotage on Bionicle G2 for all I know, but that was over a decade ago and doesn't seem relevant to how recent themes are being treated.
  • It doesn't really make sense as a strategy to create new themes over and over like the past. It's a lot easier to integrate that with the Ninjago universe or another existing theme that has a broader reach so that you have a name consumers recognize.  

The article ignores the idea that corporations need to make money, which I'll just be honest with you- they do. Nobody does a job solely out of the passion of their heart and LEGO is such a big enough brand that people can want different things out of it.

The proposal to "end" Ninjago can't happen as long as it makes money. Consumers will have lost interest long before that point, but evidentially they haven't, so like, what is the point in changing a winning strategy? LEGO.com has had it's fair share of stock issues but this can't be the only thing we can attribute to 80% of that website being sold out well before it's Black Friday started. For those not in the know, selling product at full price like that is actually a sign of success. 

This entire website, as I look around, is predicated off this very outdated idea of angry, unfocused criticism that was popular in the early 2010s that fails to look at why things are the way they are or why they should change or even if they should necessarily. It's in the banner header, even, this idea that is the Angry Brick Maniac. Which, I have to say, if it really angers you that much that you have to make it your entire identity, just stop buying LEGO entirely. It's clearly not a hobby you have much love for with how it's going. 

Edited by Lady Bone Demon

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5 hours ago, Lady Bone Demon said:

This is such a lazily constructed argument, I'm impressed that this is a still-standing topic given it's self-promotion but also that people seem to think it has a point? Which, I just don't think is true, in the slightest

Really? You may not agree with my opinion, but I think I gave some pretty valid arguments (which I spent a lot of time thinking about) to support my position. The very fact that I sat down to write my thoughts about a niche topic and consumed my time in doing so makes it the exact opposite of lazy. 

5 hours ago, Lady Bone Demon said:

The article ignores the idea that corporations need to make money, which I'll just be honest with you- they do. Nobody does a job solely out of the passion of their heart and LEGO is such a big enough brand that people can want different things out of it

If you would have read what I wrote more closely, you would have realized that that's the exact same conclusion got to at the end of the article. 

And let's be honest, criticizing that fact is valid as well. People are critical of large corporations pumping out soulless products all the time, and why should LEGO be any different? I do also question the notion that nobody does a job strictly out of passion. I would argue that's how most of the largest corporations have started out, but have degraded over time as they became successful enough to the point where being passionate about their work no longer became a necessity. 

5 hours ago, Lady Bone Demon said:

It's in the banner header, even, this idea that is the Angry Brick Maniac. Which, I have to say, if it really angers you that much that you have to make it your entire identity, just stop buying LEGO entirely. It's clearly not a hobby you have much love for with how it's going

The Angry Brick Maniac is different guy, by the way. I just offered to write an article for his blog. 

No offense, but I also find the statement of "quit the LEGO hobby" being thrown at people every time they have something to complain about to be very insulting. Please stop saying that. That's basically like telling a gamer to quit playing videogames altogether just because they've been disappointed by the recent videogame titles produced by a company. 

Edited by Lego David

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I've read your article twice now, and have let it sink in. Some things I can agree with, others not so much. 

Quote

When this completely unremarkable LEGO theme about a team of teenage ninjas that ride in oversized vehicles and fight cliché villains (huh, where have I seen that concept before?) first hit toy shelves in the summer of 2011, it took the world completely by storm.

[...]

But now, over 10 years later… I think I can safely say that I am so goddam sick of it.

[...]

But without further redo, let me get into why I think this theme has been overhyped all along, that didn’t really deserve as much success as it got. This is why… Ninjago is Garbage.

General comment: wording like this may strike a chord with those that already have a similar opinion as you do, but does not really invite an objective debate. Anyway, what do you mean by "completely unremarkable LEGO theme"? I fail to see why that would apply to Ninjago, or most other themes for that matter.

Now, about the show. I largely agree with your points on that one. 

Quote

Honestly, as much as I quite enjoyed some of the earlier seasons, man, it got old really fast. The same group of characters, always go on the same types of adventures against the same types of villains. There is no denying that the series has become painfully formulaic, and not in good way.

[...]

With Ninjago, on the other hand, the writers have made no efforts to try to introduce a new set of heroes, or not even at least make the current protagonists older in order to showcase how they have grown as characters.

[...]

On top of all that, it seems like the story, despite running for so long, never really amounts to anything. Typically, any big, epic story spanning multiple TV seasons or volumes of books always constantly builds up to some big, epic climax or conclusion.

[...]

So with all that in mind, I honestly fail to see why this show would hold any meaningful value for anyone above the age of 12 (and believe me, I’ve seen kids who have grown out of it even earlier than that).

I too was a fan of the show, its what made the theme come alive for me (and indeed probably anyone else). I've watched it up to Day of the Departed. It look good, had a great soundtrack, good voice acting, and a decent enough plot. The expanding lore kept me invested for quite some years, but as you say: in the end the story doesn't really build up to something bigger. I felt that what I had seen up to that point was enough; that I didn't need to see more to enjoy Ninjago. And that's the key thing: as long as the show remains a cost-effective way of attracting new (young) fans, there's no reason to discontinue it. While I rather watch a good show than a bad one (you give good suggetions for improvements), I fear quality really is inferior to success. 

Okay, the sets:

Quote

But let’s be fair, the sets feel so low-effort and repetitive, that you would have a hard time justifying buying more than one or two sets from each wave at most.

All the line keeps giving us is the exact same hero bikes, jets, mechs, and cars over and over again with nothing to make them stand out. There are the occasional gems, of course, such as some of the dragons and temples, but even those tend to get stale very fast.

I'd say: count your blessings. Getting the "occasional gems" is good enough for me, and I don't see anything wrong buying only a few sets per wave. Let's not take the "occasional gems" for granted! I own a lot of LEGO, yet Ninjago has time and time again come up with cool new parts (and sets) worth having. If it can continue doing so, agian I see no reason to discontinue Ninjago.


Finally, I agree with the others here that discontinuing Ninjago does not at all guarantee the return of original IPs. To live is to change, and that applies to LEGO and their line of products just as much.

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5 hours ago, Lego David said:

Really? You may not agree with my opinion, but I think I gave some pretty valid arguments (which I spent a lot of time thinking about) to support my position. The very fact that I sat down to write my thoughts about a niche topic and consumed my time in doing so makes it the exact opposite of lazy. 

If you would have read what I wrote more closely, you would have realized that that's the exact same conclusion got to at the end of the article. 

And let's be honest, criticizing that fact is valid as well. People are critical of large corporations pumping out soulless products all the time, and why should LEGO be any different? I do also question the notion that nobody does a job strictly out of passion. I would argue that's how most of the largest corporations have started out, but have degraded over time as they became successful enough to the point where being passionate about their work no longer became a necessity. 

The Angry Brick Maniac is different guy, by the way. I just offered to write an article for his blog. 

No offense, but I also find the statement of "quit the LEGO hobby" being thrown at people every time they have something to complain about to be very insulting. Please stop saying that. That's basically like telling a gamer to quit playing videogames altogether just because they've been disappointed by the recent videogame titles produced by a company. 

Let's go over all your counter points:

  • Your argument is lazily constructed. It doesn't use any data, sources, and it spits in the face of the actual reality of what is going on with the brand in favor of your opinion of it- which I will just be frank with you: you are no longer the target audience. The article itself sure was written and consumed your time, but I would hardly it call "niche" as Ninjago is a huge brand. Lazily-constructed =/= lazy in terms of the overall energy you did to produce the work, but it is not super well thought out in the slightest. You claim people are tired with the theme but then call it a cash cow with an audience of young people? Like, who do you think Ninjago is for? It's clear you know, but as opposed to realizing this in the text, you seem to think corporations can just create soulless product that brings in a ton of cash? That's not how anything works, even on an abstract paper level.  
  • You claim we would have come to the same conclusion. I don't see how? You didn't read your own article? 

"As much as I admire this achievement, I think it is about time we incorporate the resources given to Ninjago into other themes. If just a decent TV Series was all it took to turn a generally half-baked concept into LEGO’s most successful original theme, then just imagine what we could be getting if LEGO came up with a much more unique concept, such as Bionicle, and gave it an actual, legitimately great TV Series. Imagine what the result could be."

This is something YOU wrote. This was my counter argument:

"There's no reason to push so much (more?) money into a singular original new theme while what works so well also continues to do very well."

"How are themes like Monkie Kid, Hidden Side, Nexo Knights, Chima, and other recent original themes like Vidiyo not getting everything possible they need to succeed? This one actually puzzles me. They all are multimedia projects and serious money is being put into the animated series or app they launch with. I just don't agree with this take, period. I just don't think any of these themes hit with consumers despite the LEGO group's best efforts. There may have been intentional sabotage on Bionicle G2 for all I know, but that was over a decade ago and doesn't seem relevant to how recent themes are being treated."

I directly disagree with the main end point here because as far as I am concerned, this is already happening to the degree it is reasonable. LEGO has been trying a LOT to create new themes that either were meant to be direct successors to Ninjago or alongside them and I guess they don't really hit with consumers, because they are retired fairly early into their runs. Huh, sure seems stupid to keep dumping money into a strategy that doesn't work- but what if we poured even MORE money into it? 

Do we even know what kind of budget the Ninjago team has to work with? I do not believe it can be any more significant than any other original theme year to year- this imagined inflated production cost does not seem to reflect on the sets at all which introduce about the same amount of molds, prints, and new colors as any other LEGO theme. They are not any more expensive. The only thing that could be adding to production cost would be the show, but that also is entirely different subject and material and again, how would it be any different cost-wise than doing an app or a show? 

"But, sadly, as long as Ninjago continues to make money, we probably won’t be seeing LEGO allocate any proper resources to new big ideas. Because, like most corporations do those days, their goal isn’t to make quality storytelling, but to engineer a money-making franchise."

Again, this point at the end, I DO NOT AGREE WITH! The idea the old days were so great because new ideas were being produced all the time is such an rose-tinted idea of what was going on with LEGO back then. Not only did a lot of these themes not require the kind of multi-media approach that would be needed for today's themes and sets to really take off, but also they really didn't run as long either. No original theme has run as long as Ninjago, and it's not because they're doing so to spite the people that like LEGO's other original themes- they tried to end it if you don't remember, and in it's place was supposed to be Chima. Chima was not a success. It makes a lot more sense to focus efforts on a successor series as Ninjago is still continuing to make money and not outright end it with a plan that might not even work out. Which, I don't know if you think this is what is happening or not, but it is. Each time you introduce a new theme, retail has to make sense of it and where it goes on the shelf for prospective consumers to buy. This strategy made a lot more sense when LEGO was a smaller company, but now that they have consistent themes like City, Ninjago, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc, and that LEGO fans seem primarily interested in them teaming up with other brands- it no longer makes sense to introduce a fully new line when it can instead be integrated into a older one that already has a set audience for it.

Again, what grand point do you think are making with this article that is compatible with my view that the way things are is fine, you just grew out of the series? That LEGO doesn't really have to produce wholly new original themes? We don't have the same conclusion as much as you insist we do.

And as for the website... you WROTE an article for it. You are part of that brand. Whoever this other guy is, I don't really care, but it is clearly that whatever content is going to be on the site is going to have a negative slant regardless of how much sense it makes. Which again, I don't think there is anything wrong with criticizing LEGO as a company, but I think the points laid out here don't make any sense for LEGO making something for a target audience of 6-12 boys and succeeding in doing so. It seems to reflect a larger attitude that you do not personally like where LEGO is going in that direction, and so I suggest that maybe this hobby just isn't for you anymore. You seem to take issue with that but again, the criticism is leveled at LEGO succeeding in a way you don't like and you want their strategy to change seemingly to fit your own whims. Which... again, is not criticism that makes sense with a company that wants to make money.

There are many criticisms you can level at LEGO that make sense, namely:

  • Monkie Kid, while being produced for a Chinese audience primarily, would have probably done a lot better if they were willing to create western SKUs that were more reasonably priced and advertised properly, instead of just dumping the show and sets on Amazon and keeping the sets locked to LEGO.com which has had multiple stock issues over the past couple years. The lack of a bigger strategy for such a good theme is reflected in how now LEGO in parts of the world are now not stocking these sets. We are not the primary audience, but a more world-wide strategy that tailored around the western tastes of sets is not something impossible to do. Maybe it would have taken up more resources and this is why they didn't split some of these sets up to make them more affordable, but overall it really speaks to a lack of confidence in the theme that it has been handled in the way it has.
  • The complete destruction of the Technic sub-systems introduced for Bionicle and Hero Factory now mean they either need to remake the molds or build a whole new system over the course of years if they ever plan to reboot Bionicle. There is a huge nostalgia for Bionicle that they are completely failing to capture and part of it has to do with just the fact they are no longer producing the means of which would allow them to do so.
  • Continuing to use J.K Rowling's work to create sets is still supporting her transphobia, even if it is distant and more connected with Warner Bros. This one I have an active problem with, and very little of the LEGO community seems to really put this at mind, but JK Rowling will still profit off LEGO Harry Potter in some way as long as they keep producing them and people keep buying them. As a trans person myself, if I find any of them interesting, I would have to go to a third party seller for the best chance to not contribute to JK Rowling's wealth in order to harm trans people. 

I really don't get this insistence that they remove themselves from what works in regards to original IP. It seems to ignore how these get made, who the target audience is, and weirdly, how still successful it is. 

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So yeah, I have read the article and like a bunch here, both agree and disagree with certain points.

Most of your points with the show I definitely agree. The writing has gone pretty iffy for me. 

In-terms of being a thematic mess, I've pretty much accepted that we probably won't go back to the good old days where there's a good amount of variety in Original themes, as much as I want it. I've even gone to the point that I accepted that contraction isn't returning anytime soon or at all. At this point, all I can ever hope for is that Lego would occasionally create a new theme to enjoy (such as Hidden Side or Monkie Kid) and not to have a year go by without any original theme existing as I, like others, also doubt that ending Ninjago would bring in much more original themes. I guess I can say that I'm fortunate enough to not be that burnt out that I still have the desire to want to enjoy the sets.

Also, something "interesting" that I just want to note - would ending Ninjago today trigger a backlash and resentment towards the replacing theme in a much more insane level than the days of Chima? For example, I've seen the dedication and attachment certain people have with specific Ninja on Twitter, not to mention all the kinds of questions Tommy Andreasen was asked there too. Then of course, there's still the fans that are heavily invested in this franchise too. The whole thing sounds to me that the cancellation/ending of Ninjago would be pretty devastating to these people. I don't know, maybe I'm misinterpreting this particular thing. Still, I just find this dilemma slightly interesting.

Edited by JJ Tong (zfogshooterz)

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On 12/1/2021 at 6:39 AM, Kim-Kwang-Seok said:

Lego has become scared of inhouse themes. They made some bad decisions (vidyo) but even Nexo knights, Hidden Side and Elves which were decent or even great were failing in the end and could not be established long terms.

To be honest, I'm not sure why you think this. There's no reason to think that ANY of those themes were intended to last much longer than they did. Even Ninjago itself was originally intended to last only two or three years, and the fact that it has continued for over 10 years is a testament to how much MORE popular it ended up being than even the high expectations its design team had for it during those early years.

Even in the years prior to Ninjago's launch, most of LEGO's new in-house "play themes" aside from City (Exo-Force, Agents, Mars Mission, Space Police 3, Kingdoms, Power Miners, Atlantis, etc) lasted only two or three years before being discontinued or replaced with something new and fresh. And some of those themes like Power Miners and Atlantis were considered great successes! They were simply never intended or expected to be long-runners of the sort that City, Friends, or Ninjago have become.

And it's not like LEGO has been avoiding new in-house themes, either. Although this year's Vidiyo launch clearly fell short of expectations, the Dots and Monkie Kid themes from 2020 have clearly both been strong enough successes to get additional waves of sets in 2021 and 2022.

Maybe if we'd gone three or four years without any new in-house theme launches, I'd agree that LEGO was seemingly avoiding them. But as it stands, it seems more like they've just taking those sort of new launches a little more slowly than they had been in the late 2000s or early 2010s.
 

Anyway, I see plenty of other people pointing out that the core topic here is little more than a personal opinion. As I see it, Ninjago sticking with the same main characters for so many years is a big part of why it has been so much more successful than G1 Bionicle. It may not have anything as narratively ambitious as Bionicle's world-shaking 2008 plot twist, but that's not something a story strictly NEEDS to be enjoyable.

And the sets from recent years have also been pretty amazing, in my opinion, with plenty of outstanding designs and varied subject matter. There are still many that stand out as are strikingly different from anything seen in previous waves: for example, the Fire Fang, Land Bounty, Skull Sorcerer's Dragon, Skull Sorcerer's Dungeons, Jungle Dragon, Catamaran Sea Battle, Hydro Bounty, Temple of the Endless Sea, or Ninja Ultra Combo Mech.

Certainly, some of them can be repetitive, but that is the nature of ANY stable, long-running theme, whether it's Town/City, Space, Castle, Pirates, Technic, Bionicle, Friends, or Ninjago. That said, a lot of these Ninjago sets that feature the same subject matter as earlier ones still manage to bring clever new improvements and innovations, as exemplified by many of the Legacy sets.
 

Furthermore, if you really feel the theme has become "low-effort and repetitive", why do you have such harsh words for the repetitiveness of the hero vehicles and mechs, but not for the equally repetitive temples and dragons? Why do you praise the "balanced" approach from the first year and criticize the introduction of high-tech ninja vehicles in the second year, when maintaining that strict division of low-tech heroes annd high-tech villains would've made the theme MORE repetitive, not less? Why do you treat the new villains each wave as one of the main attractions of each new wave" when even in the debut year that you supposedly liked, they exemplified the sort of anachronistic absurdity that has "next to nothing… that is even related to actual ninjas?"

Your concerns about the theme moving away from spinners are especially silly, now that we know there are new spinner sets coming in March 2022. And while I certainlty share your fondness for the clever card game that associated the first couple years of Ninjago spinners, here you only mention it in order to disparage later spinners and fliers as forgettable gimmicks. Again, you're criticizing the theme for being stale and repetitive while also criticizing it for NOT sticking strictly to the same approach from the year it began. I'm beginning to see a pattern here…
 

Your characterization of Ninjago as a "dumping ground" for ideas that ought to go elsewhere is just as disingenuous — for one thing, including the sky pirates from half a decade ago among the ideas that supposedly "don't make sense in the context of what Ninjago originally was" is yet another obvious giveaway that the things that bother you about Ninjago aren't actually new at all. You could just as easily make the exact same argument about the ghosts from 2015 or the nindroids from 2014. And anyway, why would a high-tech, non-ninja sky pirate faction be a poor fit for the theme, when you had nothing but praise for the high-tech, non-ninja skeleton faction from the year that supposedly exemplified what you feel the theme should be like?

In truth, the theme has been envisioned as a fusion of ancient, modern, and futuristic concepts and aesthetics since even before its launch — modern cities and futuristic vehicles feature just as heavily as a "feudal Japan feel" in a lot of the early concept art from before the theme's launch. If it were really a bad thing for the theme to embrace those wacky anachronisms, then surely the theme's popularity would have declined sharply after the first year. But in fact, you yourself admit that the ninja vehicles in 2012 were well-received, and don't ever even bring up its continued popularity beyond its first few years as it continued to defy your narrow idea of what the theme ought to be.
 

Your final claim that Ninjago's success is somehow to blame for your broader personal frustrations with the current state of LEGO themes is also pretty dubious. LEGO Legends of Chima and Nexo Knights were both fairly successful themes that lasted about as long as they (or Ninjago, for that matter) were originally projected to — and, in fact, LONGER than many pre-Ninjago themes. You present no evidence whatsoever that Legends of Chima, Nexo Knights, or Monkie Kid have in any way "failed to find an audience" — particularly since practically all your other arguments treat pretty much everything about Ninjago beyond its early years as a failing rather than a strength!
 

I'm trying not to be mean about this, but this tendency of yours to argue in circles to try and prove why LEGO in the late 2000s/early 2010s was good and LEGO today is bad has become pretty tedious and predictable. And it's pretty arrogant to act as though you have a clearer understanding of what made Ninjago's early years (AND its later years) successful than the folks at LEGO who actually made it that way!

As much as you praise Bionicle's varied main characters and its 2008 plot twist, your complaints almost perfectly mirror the curmudgeonly complaints of many strictly old-school Bionicle fans:

  • That the theme should have stuck with the primitive tropical island aesthetics it started with, and was ruined by introducing modern or futuristic concepts like high-tech cities, giant robots, gun-like weapons and orbital space stations.
  • That the theme should've stuck with a strict formula of humanoid hero sets and beastly villain sets instead of disrupting that "balance" with humanoid villains like the Piraka.
  • That the collectibles from the first few years were good, but later years made a foolish decision to abandon that approach in favor of forgettable launcher gimmicks.
  • That the theme would've been better off if the sets and story had ended in the early years instead of being dragged through wave after wave in the name of selling more sets.

But then, there's one core difference between those situations. Bionicle G1, as it turns out, could NOT sustain its popularity, although its decline was probably not for the reasons that many of those folks believed. Ninjago's popularity, on the other hand, has shown remarkable stability in spite of, from your perspective, getting steadily worse from its second year onward. Maybe that should be a sign that the core audience that made Ninjago so successful simply doesn't share your beliefs about what the theme is supposed to be? That maybe they never did?
 

I know I'm not gonna change your mind, and that reading your blog post, let alone replying, was probably a waste of my time and energy. But eh, what's done is done.

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12 hours ago, Aanchir said:

To be honest, I'm not sure why you think this. There's no reason to think that ANY of those themes were intended to last much longer than they did. Even Ninjago itself was originally intended to last only two or three years, and the fact that it has continued for over 10 years is a testament to how much MORE popular it ended up being than even the high expectations its design team had for it during those early years.

 

It's my speculation. Maybe you are right.

From a business perspective it would make more sense to have a large amount of strong in-house themes and little reliance on licences.
Can be that the other themes mentioned worked out well enough. Who knows? Because businesses are not keen on getting bad news out there, might causing more distrust in their stocks and reputation.

I just remember quite abrupt endings and crazy sales for the last waves of mentioned themes. Maybe this is giving me the wrong impression, that Lego had a financial loss while overall it worked out fine. With TLM2, at least the later waves of TLBM and TLNM I would be a bit more sure about this. Some sets weren't even requested anymore all that much by retailers and many also had crazy sales going on. 2 out of 3 of those movies also weren't making much money as far as I remember or even loosing cash.

...and that's coming from a guy who loved all those movies AND the sets.

I am just trying to explain why classic themes are probably a no-go for the broader market and why there is less sense in a high quantity of in-house themes instead of playing the strengh of the few you have.

+ Dots or MK are doing something that hasn't been done before (unlike horror or sci-fi themes). Therefore they can try to tap into a new market: China, arts, etc. Since Hidden side we have no indication of any new "normal" in-house theme.

...that said I like in-house themes and I would like more of them. I am just trying to make clear that it's not the easiest time anymore for them, next to all them cinematic universes and whatever.


....so overall I just try to argue against what I would call conspiracy theories that "Lego wants to destroy classic themes, prequels" or whatever. They are just a profit oriented toy company witha lot of research and financial reasons instead of some weird paranoid fantasies. I think as a fandom it's really sad there is so much narcissism and I don't want to associate this kind of behaviour with AFOL's (like Mandy Products or whatever youtubers who make money from bashing something).

Edited by Kim-Kwang-Seok

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Should NinjaGo End?
Does NinjaGo sell well? Yes. Then it shouldn't end.

That was easy.

 

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The main thing I don't like of 2022 ninjago is how few pieces are in the spinner sets compared to previous years especially 2019.

I think the current wave does a good job at targeting a wide age range, and the variation of dragon heads is quite nice for dragon/dinosaur MOCs, and the 2 location sets have great parts to customize builds as well, as it doesn't really use extreme colors, and with just those 2 sets you complete a set of ninja + wu + pixal.

I wish the head/hairpieces were in sets for all the ninja but that's maybe asking too much. Not sure why Cole doesn't get a hairpiece this wave.

 

Edited by TeriXeri

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Even if Ninjago were to end, we wouldn't get classic style original themes. Like, look back at the last time we got classic style themes. Pirates flopped hard, whatever the medieval theme was called last time also flopped, and the two classic space inspired sets from TLM2 both hit clearance, clearly not selling well despite them being two of the coolest sets Lego's done in years (and the afol hype surrounding them).

 

Also, there has to be a reason why TLM2 didn't do stuff based on things like western or castle. Like, I think it's fair to assume that the TLM sets based on those things didn't sell well.

 

Idk, at least City gets space stuff. Sure it doesn't have aliens or guns and mechs, but it's probably my favorite City subtheme

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On 12/20/2021 at 8:44 PM, Maple said:

Should NinjaGo End?
Does NinjaGo sell well? Yes. Then it shouldn't end.

That was easy.

 

 

Interesting debate, but I think that with Ninjago that Lego has found a hit, and if it keeps on performing, why would they stop it?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but with consistent showrunners, consistent excellent music (even up for an Emmy!), consistent Whips, it just shows that good people doing a good job are still at the helm!

Ultimately Maple is right. In addition to the shows, magazines, chapter books, etc, if they consistently can sell wave after wave of fun sets, why not continue? It seems like a clear case of caring creators and engaged fans, even spread out over a decade plus now.

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