[MOC] [WIP] The Ghost

[NathanR]

I'm a huge fan of Star Wars Rebels, and several years ago I invested quite some time in trying to reverse-engineer a rather masterful model by eurobricks user DarthTwoShedsJackson. I never got a chance to build it in real life, but I kept the files. Now, using that model as a starting point, I'm trying to create a better version of the Ghost that I can truly call my own design (hopefully).  So far, the front half is pretty much complete:

What do you think? There are a few flaws. Some of the brick-built paint stripes are too big, but I don't want the hassle and mess of creating a custom sticker sheet. The undercarriage is also a bit of a disaster, it is way too tall, and I would give a heck of a lot for some 1x2x2 inverted slopes. Or maybe a plate with studs on both sides.

One part of the model I could really do with some help on, is the main triangular plate that forms the front corner of the ship. The new 4x6 wedge plates work amazingly well at capturing the angles, but I keep ending up with either collisions or some unsightly gaps, like you see below. 

Are there any experts on lego triangles who could advise how to figure out the best size and shape for the large wedge plate, and how to find the best pivot point for the ball-and-socket hinge joint?

 

If anyone wants to take a closer look, the current draft version of The Ghost is available here: https://bricksafe.com/files/NathanR/star-wars-rebels-the-ghost/DEV%20-%20The%20Ghost.io

Edited November 17, 2021 by NathanR

[Sucram]

Looks good to me, I've always been a fan of the Ghost's design

[MAVERICK26]

Looks great - I can't wait to see what the full thing will look like. Do you plan to keep the Studio file updated?

[NathanR]

On 11/18/2021 at 11:40 PM, MAVERICK26 said:

Looks great - I can't wait to see what the full thing will look like. Do you plan to keep the Studio file updated?

Thanks! If people are interested, then for sure I will keep updating the Stud.io file.

 

 

I've been slowly adjusting the design, trying to figure out how to maximise strength and stability. I was amazed to find a positioning of pin holes for the underside plating that appear to almost perfectly align! So at least these plates won't have to rely on just one hinge at the base heroically fighting gravity...

I've also been working extensively on the main deck, which is a surprisingly tough challenge. It's formed  primarily from two 16x16 plates, in the hope that there will be enough space for a roomy interior. The plan is to eventually add in the crew's rooms behind the cockpit, and have the briefing room with the dejarik board at the back next to the Phantom.

Unfortunately, the deck is proving to be rather fragile. Each corner features a large white triangle, which is three plates thick. That allows a good amount of 2xN plates (reddish brown) to bolt everything together. I also have 2x16 plates (dark tan) linking the front and back triangles together, going through the technic bricks that support the airlocks. I'd have liked the 2x16 plates to be a bit wider (say a single 6x16 plate) but I have to leave a gap for the angled technic bricks holding the sides of the airlocks together.

So what am I complaining about, it sounds pretty robust, right? Well, there is only one 2x10 plate holding each white triangle onto the 16x16 plate. There's just about room for another one underneath, but the lightest flex and the entire plate sandwich pops apart. Ideally, I'd make the entire deck three plates thick and have done with it, but there's only room for two plates at most, and that is already causing a headache with having Hera actually able to sit in the cockpit. It's bad enough that Sabine is barely able to fit in the nose gun turret without bashing her helmet on the ceiling. I'm trying to look at techniques used in Tie Fighter wings but they are invariably three plates thick. I'm also looking into using a technic framework underneath to provide some additional support, but again space is limited due to the cutouts that appear underneath the nose of the ship, the cargo bay and it's opening hatches, and also the precise location of pin holes to support the underside angled plates.

I'm running out of ideas - anyone got any suggestions to make this more robust?

[NathanR]

Well, I'm going nuts.

Completely redesigned the main deck plating, it's a little thicker than I'd have liked but the triangular wedge plates now have 6x10 plates running cross-wise for much greater clutch. Of course, the plates still pop apart quite easily, but I'm hoping a technic frame underneath the deck plate may provide some additional rigidity and support.

Now I'm just trying to figure out how to create a suitable frame. After about ten hours on this part of the ship, this is the least bad that I've come up with. I just feel there is a better solution, that I'm missing. I keep looking at 75257 for inspiration, but I can't quite see how to adapt that for here to create a robust, yet lightweight framework. 

It has to cover 16x34 studs, with maybe some extra technic frames supporting the pink 6x10 plates.  I'd like to have the airlock supports running right down the middle of the ship like last time, but that introduces a weakness around the mid-section of the ship, with the fore and aft frames able to flex too much. I'd like to have a strip of 6x8 frames running the length of the ship, so that the forward landing gear and cargo bay can connect too them right the way along the font of the ship. But then the front left/right triangle wedges don't get enough support.

So I have no clue what to do to improve this.

If anyone wants to play around, here you go: https://bricksafe.com/files/NathanR/star-wars-rebels-the-ghost/Ghost Master Mk 2.io

Ideas how to proceed?

Edited November 22, 2021 by NathanR

[Kage Goomba]

Not sure if this helps - and I'm just starting to get the "itch" to design my own model....but after building the Star Destroyer (75252), the Republic Gunship (75309), and the TIE Fighter (retired - 75095) - in terms of "long flat surfaces" - 3 to 4 plates thickness with interweaving longer/est plates for coverage tend to be the trick.

Especially if you have no struts or frames to draw support from. The only thing I've noticed is they tend to warp slightly under their own weight - but can be resolved with extra structure or framing from any number of areas.

My point being - your on the right track - the current iteration looks very good - better over your last one.

The TIE Fighter was a good one to think of in this case as its got very long panels - thickest I've seen yet - yet its rigid as can be.

Weight is a concern however. The Star Destroyer is very tenuous in that regard - maybe look to the TIE Fighter Panels for inspiration or Gunship Wings - granted they aren't holding much but could help.

 

Again - noob here - so feel free to disregard.

[NathanR]

On 11/22/2021 at 10:56 PM, Kage Goomba said:

My point being - your on the right track - the current iteration looks very good - better over your last one.

The TIE Fighter was a good one to think of in this case as its got very long panels - thickest I've seen yet - yet its rigid as can be.

Again - noob here - so feel free to disregard.

You might be a noob, but you have some great insights! I've studied the UCS TIE Fighter, but hadn't thought to look at the Star Destroyer or Republic Gunship. It was quite illuminating! 

Indeed a three plate sandwich is the minimum thickness for a strong base, but two plates between technic bricks allows a 3M beam to connect them and prevent the layers from popping apart.

So back to the drawing board again, and this time I think I've got it figured out. Two layers of technic brick frames, and maybe add some 3x3 T-shaped technic beams to bolt it together.

The thing I like about this design is that it should be fairly strong, it give all the connection points needed to support the upper deck, and it still allows the main cargo bay doors to open and close!

And there's enough room for me to make the interior of the cargo bay look interesting (even though it will never be seen). Or maybe I can just have it hold a cargo container with a Wookie inside...

The only major design decision that remains is should I add a brick built grey stripe on the underside of the "wings"?  It looks good and is true to the real Ghost, but the problem is that it has to be built entirely out of 2x2 wedge plates, and it kind of messes up the structure of interlocking plates.

I did consider putting the strip as a separate layer of plates, but it won't technically fit - the 1x3 plate is right up against the studs of the 3x12 wedge plate that forms the side of the ship. And while two plates and the studs are the exact width of one Lego brick, the studs have the Lego logo embossed on them. Which means there isn't the space for the 1x3 plate to fit in real life!

The grey stripe would have been a cool feature, but I think I'm going to have to sacrifice it for the sake of stability.

Revised framework Stud.io file is here, if anyone wants to play: https://bricksafe.com/files/NathanR/star-wars-rebels-the-ghost/Updated Framework.io

 

[Kage Goomba]

I'd love to pick your brains for a project I'm working on.

Mind if I PM you what I'm working on? :) Or feel free to PM me.

And trust me when I say this...I've lost 4-5 hours of work of "going back to drawing board" - I just HAD to pick "that ship" lol

 

[MAVERICK26]

I'm bumping this thread a little bit but any progress?

[Kage Goomba]

I'd like to know too :)

[The Stud]

Same here. I desperately want a Lego Ghost and if OP releases instructions for this, then I just might have to use those. 

[NathanR]

Gosh, has it really been three months since I posted anything on this?? Things have been quite tough for me lately, and it's been hard to find the energy and enthusiasm to do any Lego design. Every time I work on the Ghost, I come away feeling depressed - it always looks messy, I feel my solutions are lacking elegance, and the price is spiralling out of control (I'm now on about 1800 pieces with an estimated price of 280 GBP). That said, I was quite touched that there are people who are still interested in the model, so here's an update!

The underside is finished, with some new giant wedge-shaped sections. The inner triangular wedge is at an angle that's just about in-system, but relies on the freedom of movement provided by frictionless technic pins. The flanking wedges, with the yellow stripes, are only mounted on bar/clip hinges at the midsection of the ship. No other attachment point is possible, so I'm not sure how to secure the plates and stop them falling under gravity. Still, it looks good:

The interior frame has had to be redesigned yet again. It still looks a bit awkward, and I wish I could figure out how to use fewer 1x16 technic bricks (they're expensive!) but it looks like it will work:

The front is basically finished. There's a new 6x7 windscreen coming in the speed champions this year (also appearing in grey as the nose of the new Mandalorian N1 starfighter) which looks like it would fit perfectly, but I don't know if it would leave enough room for Hera at the controls. You can see that Sabine would be able to fit in the nose gun turret, but there's not enough room to attach a control column for the turret guns. Even just a pair of levers would have been nice, but nothing will fit.

The interior is also taking shape. There's not much point to adding a cargo bay, as it's too small for figures to fit in, but the hatch retracts and you can see the archway pattern that supported the upper decks:

And finally, I dug out one of my old designs for the Phantom. It needs some work round the nose, to remove an unsightly half plate gap on the underside. I also really hate the windscreen, as it looks more like a truck than the shuttle, but it's a necessary evil - it gives the Phantom a shorter, stubbier nose while allowing enough room for Hera to sit at the controls while Ezra and Kanan sit in the back.

Well, that's it for now. I'll keep you posted as I do more on the Ghost. Next up will be the engine block and the tail fin.You have no idea how much I wish there was a 2x8 inverted curved slope...

[Jerac]

A standard solution so such slight angled gaps is using 1x4 and 1x2 panel pieces. You know, those of size of standard 1x4 and 1x2 bricks. You put them sideways so the narrow part covers the gap and that's essentially it. 

[MAVERICK26]

Wow...

Welcome back! I think @Jerac is right. Wedging the panels would work. In regards to the rest of the build, it looks like you've been making amazing progress.

[Kage Goomba]

@NathanR heeeey...your back. Nice.

 

I get like that with my Otana too - don't be discouraged - happy to show how I did my mandibles if you need some suggestions on underside plating.

Sadly a lot of it is faith they will hold lol.

I keep staring at my UCS ISD and use that as my little reminder that it can hold even if its tenuous at best.

[NathanR]

4 hours ago, Jerac said:

A standard solution so such slight angled gaps is using 1x4 and 1x2 panel pieces. You know, those of size of standard 1x4 and 1x2 bricks. You put them sideways so the narrow part covers the gap and that's essentially it. 

Not sure I can get that to work on the long edge of the triangle wedge plates, but I will certainly give that a try!

4 hours ago, MAVERICK26 said:

In regards to the rest of the build, it looks like you've been making amazing progress.

Thanks!

15 minutes ago, Kage Goomba said:

@NathanR heeeey...your back. Nice.

It is good to be back :) I like what you're doing with the Otana by the way.

 

[Kage Goomba]

10 minutes ago, NathanR said:

It is good to be back :) I like what you're doing with the Otana by the way.

 

It's coming along.....going to be a monster for sure when its done lol. (click my signature for those who don't know what I'm talking about)
It is really good to see yours coming along nicely too - looking forward to it. :)

[NathanR]

If you use three 2x3 wedge plates to form a 4x9 triangle, how do you add a border to it?

That is the problem currently annoying me with the Ghost. The back plate is supposed to be very simple - it's flat, has some minor greebles, and just has to follow the shape formed by the surrounding hull plates. Indeed, a simple 4x9 triangle constructed from 3x6 wedge plates matches the hull plates quite nicely. But to add a border, I need to wrap plates around it, kind of like the grey edges on the wings of the 75300 Tie Fighter. The best I've got is this, but it doesn't work, the lower red clip is not "in system" and won't even attach to a jumper plate:

The 3x6 wedge plate has an angle of about 18.4 degrees, and crunching the numbers shows no right angled triangle that will give this angle while having a whole number of studs for all three edges. I've been trying to get clever with SNOT bricks and brackets, but it becomes too difficult for me to calculate and nothing really works when I eyeball it.

I kind of like this solution because I can add a 1x2 rail plate to the border, and it can add a bit of extra support to the main underside hull plates. They are only connected by hinge plates at the airlocks, and are definitely going to fall away under gravity. So if I can make this structurally solid, the ship should hold together:

Any ideas?

 

[MAVERICK26]

Maybe try a 1x3 jumper, offset by 1 stud, and attach the clip to that.

[NathanR]

Only a small update tonight. I've added in a couple of triangular wedges on the front of the Ghost. It has taken me days of playing about with Mixel ball joints to try and find the best pivot point, so that the wedges can angle downwards without colliding with the surrounding frame. Many thanks to @MAVERICK26 for a very interesting suggestion for how it could be done.

I'm still not entirely happy with my solution, as the triangles don't have the same angle as the grey panels above the airlock. It's not too bad I suppose, but I might have one more try using a similar technique to how I mounted the aft underside panels.

The back hull plates will follow next, they should be a mirror of the front, but will likely need a little bit of careful sculpting around the engines. The roof and the gun turret I'm hoping to steal from... errr.... I mean, take inspiration from DarthTwoShedsJackson's original. And then I get the fun of building an interior. 

 

[ostrichwatch]

Looks great! Really nice work....

[NathanR]

More new hull plates added! It's really tricky to get the colour patterns right with the available wedge plates, but it kind of works. Not sure I'm a fan of the sand blue for the aft plates.

 

Also starting to wonder if I've messed up the overall shape. The proportions just seem a little bit off, nothing I can really point to and say is wrong, but the ship feels a little flat, like Hera flew it sideways through a trash compactor.

I'm not sure, does it look ok or should I go back to the drawing board?

 

 

[Kage Goomba]

what are you using for references?

Welcome to my pain on my Otana lol.

[NathanR]

Just screenshots from the episodes, and the official schematics - there seems to be only one line-art drawing of the Season 1 Ghost going around...

[Kage Goomba]

Well post them here for references and let everyone make their conclusions on scale/accuracy. :)