[MOC] Hythe Pier Railway

[Hod Carrier]

I thought that, because it doesn't really fit in with the topic of OcTRAINber, I would start a new thread for this model rather than diluting the OcTRAINber thread with any discussion of it.

You may know that I had decided to build a model of the Hythe Pier Railway locomotive as an entry for the OcTRAINber contest. Well, that project didn't end there as I went on to build the entire train.

The railway runs the length of Hythe Pier in Hampshire and connects the ferry terminal at it's head with the shore and the town of Hythe. It has been in existence since 1909 when it began using hand-propelled trolleys. The line was electrified in 1922 and has been in continuous operation ever since.

HythePierTramway-Hythe-081005 by Michael Wadman, on Flickr

Hythe Pier Tramway by Roger Marks, on Flickr

I have chosen to model the entire three coach train together with the locomotive and baggage trolley, as these renders show.

The build of this train ran in parallel with my OcTRAINber contest builds.

This is the control trailer car which is always at the seaward end of the train. For simplicity the railway operates on a push-pull basis, so there has to be a control car at the opposite end to remotely control the locomotive. The pier railway actually has two of these to permit maintenance.

The coaches have sliding doors on one side only, as the platforms are always on the same side of the train and, because of the layout of the pier, there is no chance of the coaches being turned accidentally. This also has a safety benefit, as the seaward side of the train is where the electrified 3rd rail is found.

The cab of the control car. Visible through the large offset windscreen is the brake wheel.

This is the standard coach used by the railway showing the external sliding doors.

This coach, like the control car, has a full seated interior. In this case, it is divided into three bays.

This is the motor car. It is to the same external design as the other coach but inside is very different. Instead of an interior there is a Circuit Cubes bluetooth hub and a pair of motors mounted vertically. Access is by removing sections of the side and roof, as shown here.

The underside of the car showing the transmission. While the other cars have bogies, this car has fixed axles because I could not find a way to create power bogies within the space available. I have made sure to keep the level of this car the same as the others and ensure that the distance between the axles is the same as the distance between the bogie centres to ensure that it blends into the train as much as possible.

This is the baggage trolley that carries large items of luggage brought by passengers off the ferry. This was to have been a competition entry, but I decided that it wasn't really of high enough standard so I put that idea aside.

A little video of the pier train doing loops around my kitchen floor. The train runs very smoothly and prototypically slowly too. The only downside is the racket coming from the motor coach. Man, it's loud!!

This is the technique I used for the external sliding doors. The problem that I had was that I needed the doors to protrude from the coach sides by one plate but I needed whatever technique I used to be compact enough that it wouldn't intrude into the motor coach and prevent fitting of the power and control equipment. This is the view from the inside of the coach.

This is the same technique viewed from the outside of the coach showing the attachment and the offset.

For a build that looks so straightforward there were quite a few challenges to overcome, most notably working out how to include the powertrain and make sure that the supporting structure for the doors was not too bulky. That said, I did enjoy the challenge and found a good use for the Circuit Cubes kit that I've been holding on to for a while. I hope you like it too.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Hod Carrier

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Lovely train and impressive building technique!

I didn't know the windows 3x3 ...and here they are perfect!

[JopieK]

Looks great! Indeed splendid use of those 3-wide windows! Southhampton, very nice region!

[Hod Carrier]

Thank you gentlemen. Yes, those 3 wide windows really came to my rescue with this build. Without them the design would not have been right. 

[zephyr1934]

That looks really good!

How long is the pier anyway and is it still an active ferry terminal? That would be extra amazing if the railway is still serving its original purpose.

 

[Hod Carrier]

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

How long is the pier anyway and is it still an active ferry terminal? That would be extra amazing if the railway is still serving its original purpose.

It certainly is still operating. I believe it has the title of the oldest electrically operated pier railway according to Guinness World Records, although I don’t think it’s a very large field with much competition in it. 

The trip is stated to be 2100 feet / 640 metres. 

[ColletArrow]

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

How long is the pier anyway and is it still an active ferry terminal? That would be extra amazing if the railway is still serving its original purpose.

It is most definitely still operating - I was on it this afternoon!

I was going to the New Forest for a walk, and hopped on the ferry and then the pier train, since the main railway line was closed for works. In fact, whilst I was riding this very train, I glanced at my phone and there was this page, with a LEGO version of the very same train staring straight back at me - couldn't beat that for timing!

18 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

A little video of the pier train doing loops around my kitchen floor. The train runs very smoothly and prototypically slowly too. The only downside is the racket coming from the motor coach. Man, it's loud!!

Hey, I think you can call that prototypical, it's not exactly a quiet train.

Overall you've assembled a fantastic little train of models, which looks very good as a complete set of somewhat mis-matched carriages and loco. The doors technique works very well (even if it means you can't pose them open - we left them wide open throughout our journey today ), and the circuit-cubes power adds yet another level of interest. The only thing from the video is the engine looks a tad light and wobbly - would there be any way to add weight to it?

Finally, it has to be asked - are you going to build a model of the pier next? Make sure to leave the prototepyical gaps between the planks, so you can look out of the train carriage straight down to the sea below!

[Hod Carrier]

1 hour ago, ColletArrow said:

I was going to the New Forest for a walk, and hopped on the ferry and then the pier train, since the main railway line was closed for works. In fact, whilst I was riding this very train, I glanced at my phone and there was this page, with a LEGO version of the very same train staring straight back at me - couldn't beat that for timing!

You're kidding!!! Ha ha!! Now that is some weird timing. 

1 hour ago, ColletArrow said:

Overall you've assembled a fantastic little train of models, which looks very good as a complete set of somewhat mis-matched carriages and loco. The doors technique works very well (even if it means you can't pose them open - we left them wide open throughout our journey today )

I did notice that this was a very common occurrence from the photos I'd been studying, but I put that down to them probably having been taken during warmer weather. I probably could model it with open doors on the two unpowered coaches, but not on the motor coach.

1 hour ago, ColletArrow said:

The only thing from the video is the engine looks a tad light and wobbly - would there be any way to add weight to it?

I presume you mean the motor coach...? Yes it is a wee bit wobbly, although I'm unsure exactly why. It's the heaviest car of the train and yet it's the only one that wobbles. Whether that's something to do with having motors onboard, the fixed wheelbase or whether it's meeting resistance through having to push/pull the rest of the train I shall have to try and find out. There may be some scope for adding weight but not much.

1 hour ago, ColletArrow said:

Finally, it has to be asked - are you going to build a model of the pier next? Make sure to leave the prototepyical gaps between the planks, so you can look out of the train carriage straight down to the sea below!

It looks like I might have to now. Ha ha!!

[Paperinik77pk]

The full set is lovely, I like a lot the locomotive alone...but I'd say that the complete train is way more satisfying!

[Hod Carrier]

10 minutes ago, Paperinik77pk said:

The full set is lovely, I like a lot the locomotive alone...but I'd say that the complete train is way more satisfying!

Thank you, sir. Yes I definitely agree that having the entire train is way better than just one or two vehicles.

@ColletArrow I think the wobbles are due to the axles being supported only in the middle and not at each end, and are caused by inconsistencies in the track. I've had it doing more laps and the wobbles always seem to strike at exactly the same places each time. I've also had it running back and forth across the floor without any track and it seems fairly smooth until it crosses the joints between one laminate tile and the next.

I've had another good look at the design and I don't think there's enough space to get anything between the wheels and the inside of the coach sides to support the axle ends, so it might be just one of those things that I'll have to put up with. Alternatively I might have to look into ways of making the other cars wobble equally so that it doesn't stand out so much. I mean, the ride quality on the real train can't be that smooth after all. 

[Sven J]

It's amazing how many strange/interesting/exotic (choose any other similar word) trains have surfaced in the context of the OcTRAINber competition, and surely your train is one of the weirdest (and I say that as a compliment).
Your rendition of this odd little thing is magnificent! Excellent design and engineering work.

[Hod Carrier]

We do like to do "weird" here in the UK. But you're right. I never expected there to be a 100 year old train still in commercial service working at it's original task and not specifically a subject of preservation. There can't be very many of those in the world.

I'm pleased you like this model too. I'm lucky that, apart from the loco, it's basically square which is a shape I can do in LEGO. 

[LEGOTrainBuilderSG]

What an interesting (and odd, in a good way) looking train! Fantastic job on the coach and the technique used to mimic the sliding doors, brilliant stuff. 

Definitely one of the memorable OcTRAINber entries. 

[Hod Carrier]

On 11/15/2021 at 8:43 AM, LEGOTrainBuilderSG said:

What an interesting (and odd, in a good way) looking train! Fantastic job on the coach and the technique used to mimic the sliding doors, brilliant stuff. 

Definitely one of the memorable OcTRAINber entries. 

Thank you. That's very kind of you to say. 

This is an update that I never thought I'd ever make. When folk spend so much time and effort trying to make their creations better, I've just spent an afternoon trying to make mine worse.

I had already been aware of the motor coach's tendency to wobble even before posting the first video. I had been content to allow this issue to pass, but clearly the wobbles were worse than I imagined for them to have drawn comment.

I spent a little bit of time trying to see if there was anything I could do to try and make the model more stable. The issue seems to be a combination of the motor coach having a long fixed wheelbase and the axles being supported only in the middle and not at the ends which seems to make it very picky about indifferent track quality. Unfortunately, there isn't enough space inside to make any changes to tune out the wobbles, so I've had to take the opposite approach instead. Try and make the other coaches equally wobbly.

I have redesigned the bogie pivots and changed them from 2x2 turntable plates to a pin and hole pivot. With the modifications complete, the train went out for another little spin.

Well, the coaches do wobble more than before but perhaps not quite as much as the motor coach. Certainly on bends the motor coach seems to lurch and shake more, which is almost certainly a consequence of the fixed wheelbase, but then piers are normally mercifully straight. However, on the straights the behaviour of the motor coach no longer seems to stick out like a sore thumb.

Thoughts...?

[ColletArrow]

1 hour ago, Hod Carrier said:

Thoughts...?

Fantastic!

I've just realised I never clarified, I was actually talking about the loco itself when I first mentioned it - since it's much smaller than the coaches it's also much lighter, and thus a little less stable. But comparing the latest wobbly-ised train with the original, I think I can say it's now more realistic!

How well does it run the other way, with the "loco" "propelling"? I would expect it to be very similar, since the train structure is practically symmetrical with the powered coach in the middle and an unpowered coach and small, light truck (effectively) at each end.

(Did I mention one of our party refused to get the train on the way back on our trip, preferring instead to walk? This might have been why... )

[Hod Carrier]

18 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

I've just realised I never clarified, I was actually talking about the loco itself when I first mentioned it - since it's much smaller than the coaches it's also much lighter, and thus a little less stable.

Weirdly the loco is quite stable. I haven’t noticed it wobbling much at all, and certainly no worse than the rest of the train, so I don’t feel it needs anything much adding to it.

18 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

How well does it run the other way, with the "loco" "propelling"? I would expect it to be very similar, since the train structure is practically symmetrical with the powered coach in the middle and an unpowered coach and small, light truck (effectively) at each end.

As you rightly observe, the train is very symmetrical in terms of weight and layout which means it runs just as well in either direction. The first video shows the train running in both directions.

18 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

(Did I mention one of our party refused to get the train on the way back on our trip, preferring instead to walk? This might have been why... )

LOL!! What was the problem? Was it the gaps in the boards or did get think it was going to fall through? 

[Man with a hat]

Oh nice. What a lovely little train. That's a really nice recreation of the original. And it runs pretty well too.

[LEGOTrainBuilderSG]

On 11/19/2021 at 1:07 AM, Hod Carrier said:

Thank you. That's very kind of you to say. 

This is an update that I never thought I'd ever make. When folk spend so much time and effort trying to make their creations better, I've just spent an afternoon trying to make mine worse.

I had already been aware of the motor coach's tendency to wobble even before posting the first video. I had been content to allow this issue to pass, but clearly the wobbles were worse than I imagined for them to have drawn comment.

I spent a little bit of time trying to see if there was anything I could do to try and make the model more stable. The issue seems to be a combination of the motor coach having a long fixed wheelbase and the axles being supported only in the middle and not at the ends which seems to make it very picky about indifferent track quality. Unfortunately, there isn't enough space inside to make any changes to tune out the wobbles, so I've had to take the opposite approach instead. Try and make the other coaches equally wobbly.

I have redesigned the bogie pivots and changed them from 2x2 turntable plates to a pin and hole pivot. With the modifications complete, the train went out for another little spin.

Well, the coaches do wobble more than before but perhaps not quite as much as the motor coach. Certainly on bends the motor coach seems to lurch and shake more, which is almost certainly a consequence of the fixed wheelbase, but then piers are normally mercifully straight. However, on the straights the behaviour of the motor coach no longer seems to stick out like a sore thumb.

Thoughts...?

I think the little wobble gives it a little charm!  

My 2-axle wagons tend to wobble a little too but for my case it was due to the ball bearings axle with uneven rods attachment. As for my locomotives, they don't wobble due to its massive weight that 'grounds' the loco. 

I'd say not to worry about it. The train runs well and the wobbling effect gives it character.