LEGO Star Wars 2022 Set Discussion - READ FIRST POST!!!

[benderisgreat]

1 hour ago, Mandalorianknight said:

 

Lego doesn't hate prequels...they're a company, they make what sells.

 

That's just like your opinion man.

Facts point to different direction than one you seem to believe in.

Edited November 21, 2021 by benderisgreat

[Kim-Kwang-Seok]

11 minutes ago, benderisgreat said:

That's just like your opinion man.

Facts point to different direction than one you seem to believe in.

what facts? It's a conspiracy theory. State numbers about actual sales, comments by Lego employees, some other sources or whatever.


I'm not saying prequels have to definitively sell worse. Maybe Rebels could have been a bigger success as a show and as toys. Disney basically was bullying the show out of existance (almost no ads,time slots, ridiculous budget, artistic limitations compared to TCW or Mandalorian; so there you go some facts). Maybe with some backing this would have gotten more hype and the toys would have become bigger, especially as they partly felt like there wasn't much effort put into them and at it's hight they weren't even on the market.

Sometimes market logic is absurd. Like the first 2 waves or Rebels flopped for whatever reasons so they didn't put effort anymore/based on interviews (Facts) they were traumatized how bad existing sets sold . Maybe this prevented future waves to become a big hit. Maybe the more colourful designs and characters would have completely outcompeted the bland and grey sequel sets in comparison only if they would have pushed it more instead of hiding it. Maybe Lego just did a bad job to beginn with or they got the wrong designs. Like the Gonzati class cruiser probably wasn't the smartest ship to bring out at 130 bucks.

Or maybe this is just my interpretation and the show just didn't work as well as toys.  I would still think it was a but amazing show. Maybe it was just the wrong time. Whatever it is: You can love what you love, it doesn't change, that the majority of the fanbase (not just some minority on social media) doesn't like it or didn't try it. Maybe it's the same with Lego. Like they are just afraid of a prequel wave based on past sets but done right it would sell well.

The current waves to me sound like they are really scared and want to play it save: some Mando and CW stuff and otherwise only OT. My speculation is that the last sequel waves were underperforming like crazy. Doesn't mean Lego "hates the sequels". According to this logic they would hate Rebels and the sequels more than anything - after all we do still get some prequel stuff while the sequels are like completely dead.

[BrickBob Studpants]

47 minutes ago, The Stud said:

Also, when do March sets tend to be revealed? I wonder if they’ll try to unveil those on one of the last Bring Home the Bounty days. 

Whenever consumer catalogues get revealed, which is usually in December 

[PreVizsla]

2 hours ago, Kit Figsto said:

My hunch, but I really don't think a lot of prequel helmets would sell that well, anyway.  At least on the internet, the vast majority of people wanting more prequel sets are wanting minifigure scale stuff.  99% of the complaints I saw about the UCS Gunship had to do with the minifigures and/or the fact that people wanted it to be minifigure scale.

If you had the option to spend $50 on a helmet for a clone that just sits on your desk, or spend $55 for the AAT + a 501st Clones set, I would guess more people (myself included) would choose the latter (at this point both sets have been marked down to where that's about what they'd cost ).  

As a PT fan i agree. I am mostly looking for cool figures, something to army build (even cool OT stuff)  and minifigure scaled or under scaled models. I wouldn't get a LEGO helmet even if they offered me one for free, even if it's my favorite character. I would rather add few bucks and buy a superior version from Hasbro that can be worn or made into a display/center piece of a room/office/whatever. I think OT stuff would sell better and they should keep making them cause people that like those movies are a perfect target audience for that type of stuff. 

[LDigital]

4 hours ago, Kit Figsto said:

My hunch, but I really don't think a lot of prequel helmets would sell that well, anyway.

My counter hunch says good looking captain Rex helmet would sell absolute gangbusters ;)

[Gontron]

I feel like a generic Clone helmet will sell well, probably much better than an AT-AT pilot or Dark Trooper one. Clone Troopers are almost universally loved across the SW fandom and are easily the most marketable PT item. 

[PreVizsla]

40 minutes ago, Gontron said:

Clone Troopers are almost universally loved across the SW fandom and are easily the most marketable PT item. 

That's why people will buy 2x 501st sets for 8 of them and not a tiny "helmet". 

[T21Typhoon]

More than anything PT stuff is simply a departure from the aesthetic of the OT. Discourse on what’s iconic and what’s not aside, from a toy standpoint the more colourful and elegant ships and characters certainly pop in Lego form 

The Dark Trooper may not be a timeless and iconic subject to draw from, but like some have already said it’s just a relevant thing right now thanks to Mando. A DT helmet will certainly look interesting!

I’m still not happy about the staggered release of the 1HY product next year, but hopefully we’ll get some reveals in the next month or so. 

[Mandalorianknight]

4 hours ago, The Stud said:

Also, when do March sets tend to be revealed? I wonder if they’ll try to unveil those on one of the last Bring Home the Bounty days. 

They're only revealed a month or two out normally, but there are exceptions, ESPECIALLY when it's related to new media coming out, so it's not unlikely that one of the days reveals the palace.

4 hours ago, benderisgreat said:

Facts point to different direction than one you seem to believe in.

Do they? Because if we look at the facts, lego seems to be making a fair amount of prequel era sets. In 2020 we got some sets for clone wars season 7, a prequel era animated series, despite lego being VERY cautious about animated series. Not only that, but a set that was made because prequel fans were demanding it. Not even a fan vote, they made a set because people were spamming their social medias. I think that alone is proof enough that they don't hate the prequels, but we'll continue. The following year, we got a standard duel but also a $70 set for clone wars season 7, an animated season released a year prior. Again given lego's trepidation with show-based sets, that's somewhat impressive. Plus, the $100 set for prequel era bad batch, and the UCS gunship vote and set proving lego is open to prequel UCS.

1 hour ago, LDigital said:

My counter hunch says good looking captain Rex helmet would sell absolute gangbusters ;)

I honestly don't think so. I think a set with a captain rex MINIFIGURE would sell gangbusters, but I honestly can't see a helmet doing well. 

[MAVERICK26]

42 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

I honestly don't think so. I think a set with a captain rex MINIFIGURE would sell gangbusters, but I honestly can't see a helmet doing well. 

Why not?

[MKJoshA]

17 hours ago, LDigital said:

I still can’t believe they took the decision to blow up the crest. It was such an iconic looking ship. I know it was part of a really impactful finale set-up but damn. I can’t see any follow up ship being as good

Marketing. Razor Crest is an awesome ship and will remain iconic. But now they have a chance to make a whole new ship that they can market and sell. 

[THELEGOBATMAN]

13 hours ago, benderisgreat said:

That's just like your opinion man.

Facts point to different direction than one you seem to believe in.

You have to check what an opinion is.

[kidtheboss611]

8 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Do they? Because if we look at the facts, lego seems to be making a fair amount of prequel era sets. In 2020 we got some sets for clone wars season 7, a prequel era animated series, despite lego being VERY cautious about animated series. Not only that, but a set that was made because prequel fans were demanding it. Not even a fan vote, they made a set because people were spamming their social medias. I think that alone is proof enough that they don't hate the prequels, but we'll continue. The following year, we got a standard duel but also a $70 set for clone wars season 7, an animated season released a year prior. Again given lego's trepidation with show-based sets, that's somewhat impressive. Plus, the $100 set for prequel era bad batch, and the UCS gunship vote and set proving lego is open to prequel UCS.

I honestly don't think so. I think a set with a captain rex MINIFIGURE would sell gangbusters, but I honestly can't see a helmet doing well. 

I don't think a couple of sets from animated shoes means TLG has made "a fair amount of prequel era sets." It means they've done the bare minimum for the content made in the last two years by Disney. The lack of sets and desired minifigs from the prequel MOVIES is what really bothers men and other fans cause it wouldn't hurt to throw a set or two our way since the rest of the wave will be some boring OT rehash. Also, I'm not sure if people remember but there was a chart from the last discussion which showed how many sets of each era and movie TLG made and it showed a very large discrepancy in coverage. Even though OT toys are more popular than PT (a point which I would argue following CW 7, BB, and the hype for Kenobi/Hayden's return) that discrepancy was too large for there not to be at the very least speculation that Lego dislikes prequels.

Now does all that mean there is a hatred for the prequels and a large conspiracy, NO. It just means TLG has a bad gauge of what their fans want and instead of following SW sales trends in 2021 they're looking at 2010 numbers. Hopefully, we see new cool stuff from all eras (I personally want some of the sequels stuff in UCS) but I doubt anything but OT will see the coverage we'd like. 

Regarding Rex, both a minifig and a helmet would sell well but the minifig more so cause the last one is still so popular and he'd complement a collector or a kid's clone armies much better. 

[BrickBob Studpants]

„Company hates subset of products they‘re making“ is not only a bold claim, it‘s also complete nonsense  What does it even mean? Who‘s doing the hating here? The designers? They‘re working closely together with Lucasfilm, and even though they have vetoing powers of sorts (see Krennic‘s Shuttle), they can‘t let personal biases influence their decisions, if they even have them in the first place. And even if they do, how this is supposed to a constitute a „fact“ is beyond me. Do they have anti-PT propaganda posters hanging in the office that you have personal knowledge of? 

The amount of sets released doesn‘t prove anything, let alone personal feelings. It’s just business. Back to Krennic’s shuttle: By your logic, them favouring Krennic’s Shuttle over the 4-winged transport must mean they absolutely hate the latter ship, right?  Going with Ahsoka as the 150th Brickheadz means they hate every other character, right?

TLDR: Not releasing sets =/= „hatred“

Edited November 22, 2021 by BrickBob Studpants

[Brickroll]

2 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

 

The amount of sets released doesn‘t prove anything, let alone personal feelings. It’s just business. Back to Krennic’s shuttle: By your logic, them favouring Krennic’s Shuttle over the 4-winged transport must mean they absolutely hate the latter ship, right?  Going with Ahsoka as the 150th Brickheadz means they hate every other character, right?

TLDR: Not releasing sets =/= „hatred“

Don’t mean to get too off track, but where did that whole Krennic’s shuttle vs cargo shuttle thing start? I’ve been looking for if a designer or something said that, but I’ve never found it, although I don’t doubt it’s true.

[Bobbtom]

Saying Lego hates the PT without any evidence is just as silly as bending over backwards to defend whatever anti-consumer thing they come up with

Edited November 22, 2021 by Bobbtom

[BrickBob Studpants]

7 minutes ago, Brickroll said:

Don’t mean to get too off track, but where did that whole Krennic’s shuttle vs cargo shuttle thing start? I’ve been looking for if a designer or something said that, but I’ve never found it, although I don’t doubt it’s true.

It‘s been stated in an interview, but Hans Burkhard Schlömer mentions it in his notes on the model as well: 

https://brickset.com/sets/list-14074/year-2016

[Pedilego]

13 minutes ago, Bobbtom said:

Saying Lego hates the PT without any evidence is just as silly as bending over backwards to defend whatever anti-consumer thing they come up with

They’ve been shown in this or the previous thread before, if you’re actually interested in the numbers.

 

Also, for anybody that needs it clarified, “hate” in this context is usually just short-hand for “insufficiently meeting the market demand”.

[BrickBob Studpants]

26 minutes ago, Pedilego said:

Also, for anybody that needs it clarified, “hate” in this context is usually just short-hand for “insufficiently meeting the market demand”.

Yes, those are obviously synonymous  While this may be the intention behind such statements, pretending to be the victims of a conspiracy doesn‘t exactly help the PT fans‘ case 

Edited November 22, 2021 by BrickBob Studpants

[Pedilego]

36 minutes ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

Yes, those are obviously synonymous  While this may be the intention behind such statements, pretending to be the victims of a conspiracy doesn‘t exactly help the PT fans‘ case 

I can’t exactly apologize on behalf of modern society for its use of hyperbole & general inability to accurately articulate its feelings. Please do include me in the camp that prefers precise, intent-driven language. That said, the climate is what it is.

Being the ‘better person’ isn’t straw manning those poorly worded arguments.  When somebody mis-represents what you said & argues against that, doesn’t it just make you more frustrated & the situation more contentious? (Or, in other words, that’s not exactly helping the discussion, either.)

If you’re having trouble, personally, knowing when something is hyperbole, well, (1) IMO it’s the norm and (2) if the counter argument is /that/ obvious, hesitate for a moment & ask if maybe you’ve mis-read the intent.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[jdubbs]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Say what you mean, mean what you say. 

This "well I actually mean X, even though the words I chose said Y" argument is little more than linguistic retconning.

[BrickBob Studpants]

Yeah, I admit I was having a bit of fun tearing apart strawmans, as you do  The overall point still stands though, hyperbole doesn‘t help anyone‘s case. I‘m also miffed about large gaps in my collection TLG hasn‘t filled in yet, but I don‘t accuse them of purposefully going against my wishes  

And as has been pointed out many times before, we don’t have the necessary sales data to draw any meaningful conclusions, only TLG have. We only have anecdotal evidence at best, which makes this discussion rather pointless IMO  

All we can do is wait for future set lists (and not boycot the few PT sets that do get released )

[benderisgreat]

5 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

„Company hates subset of products they‘re making“ is not only a bold claim, it‘s also complete nonsense  What does it even mean? Who‘s doing the hating here? The designers? They‘re working closely together with Lucasfilm, and even though they have vetoing powers of sorts (see Krennic‘s Shuttle), they can‘t let personal biases influence their decisions, if they even have them in the first place. And even if they do, how this is supposed to a constitute a „fact“ is beyond me. Do they have anti-PT propaganda posters hanging in the office that you have personal knowledge of? 

The amount of sets released doesn‘t prove anything, let alone personal feelings. It’s just business. Back to Krennic’s shuttle: By your logic, them favouring Krennic’s Shuttle over the 4-winged transport must mean they absolutely hate the latter ship, right?  Going with Ahsoka as the 150th Brickheadz means they hate every other character, right?

TLDR: Not releasing sets =/= „hatred“

When I said ‘hate’ that was obviously an exaggeration. They simply don’t make as many PT sets as a lot of fans including myself would want to see. That’s it, nothing more than that. While they make a ton of OT sets some even so obscure like new Hoth At-St, nobody would think that LEGO will ever make, we still lack a ton of iconic stuff from prequels.

[Pedilego]

1 hour ago, jdubbs said:

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Say what you mean, mean what you say. 

This "well I actually mean X, even though the words I chose said Y" argument is little more than linguistic retconning.

Yep. I just sat through an hour drive listening to young boys saying how so-and-so movie is the best ever & it’s not even close. Hyperbole, sarcasm, irony. They’re all tools people have become comfortable using /because/ it’s a way to say what they mean without saying what they mean. The intent is indeed to be able to fall back on “linguistic retconning” at any time.

But it is what it is. If it’s popular/common, we have to recognize that and adapt if we want to be able to effectively communicate with one another. You’ve seen enough conversations on this topic, though, to know what’s meant by it.

Also, there’s a great quote, “sorry this letter is so long; I didn’t have time to make it shorter.” Lots of people lack the capacity (particularly on a hobby forum) to briefly /and/ precisely communicate their thoughts. Admittedly, “hate” in this context IS a very short, effectively enough shorthand—so long as the discussion is done in good faith.

 

@BrickBob Studpants Yeah lol. Props to coming clean about it instead of falling back on the classic plausible deniability. Communication pitfalls aside, I do think most of the points you’ve made (and the ones on the other side!) are fair. It’s not entirely mutually exclusive without, to your point, more info.

[BrickBob Studpants]

1 hour ago, benderisgreat said:

[…] we still lack a ton of iconic stuff from prequels.

We do, but the spin-offs and the animated shows apart from TCW have it even worse, I’d argue  As rare as they currently are, at least we’re still getting PT sets now and then. Solo, Rogue One, Rebels, and Resistance have simply been abandoned with slim chances of being revisited. My only hope for seeing some of the missing characters is for them to pop up elsewhere, which is far more likely for some of them (Saw, Seventh Sister, Dryden) than others (L3, Galen, 95% of the Resistance cast).

This is where the accessory packs could (or should?!) come in, but I’m not too optimistic about that  We should consider ourselves lucky if they’re not both based on the OT