LEGO Star Wars 2022 Set Discussion - READ FIRST POST!!!

[PRbrickbuilder]

9 minutes ago, FoggyFate said:

They could also do a new phase 2 plain clone, as the leg print already exist from the gunship, so all they’d need is a chest and helmet print.

Good observation, it would be great!

6 minutes ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

And keep in mind that the new prints could be virtually anything, not necessarily just minifig parts. This year’s HP pack for instance featured a new printed 2x3 tile as one of its two exclusive prints 

True. I hope they invest the prints in the minifigs, though.

[The Stud]

22 hours ago, T21Typhoon said:

All this discussion makes me wonder why Lego is introducing Minifigure Accessory Packs next year of all years. Given the price increase associated with the Hoth Imperial Trooper BP and Dark Trooper Not-a-BP, perhaps it’s because they want to introduce an easier way to mass build certain types of characters and factions whilst delegating the traditional BP slots for sure-sellers like the two above? 

Of course, these could just be cheap ways to acquire the most popular characters like Luke, C-3P0, and so on, but why go for that when such characters are already available within modestly priced sets? Contrast that to factions like different Clone Legions, Stormtroopers (both Imperial and First Order), and more, where the varieties are endless and would just clog up BP slots.

On the topic of clone characters, it’s absurd to think that a single new helmet mould (and potentially another accessory bag like what we get with Mandalorians and P1 Clones) would be enough for Lego to make any major Clone character like Rex or Cody without breaking their budget. All they’d require are new prints after that. 

Also agree with those of you unhappy with the staggered release of the 1HY sets. It’s a shame the more interesting sets like Boba’s Palace and the dioramas are still quite far off.

The way I assumed that they were doing it was keep the army builders relegated to $20 to $30 sets, like the upcoming Hoth Battle Pack or last year’s 501st set, and do the character-centric packs, or at least less-massable ones like the Bounty Hunter or Jedi one, as these Minifigure Accessory Sets. I’m not 100% sure about this theory though, and it’s possible Lego is testing the waters to see how these types of sets do at different sizes and prices.

 

As for the discussion of Bad Batch sets, I’m sure we’ll get a couple more in the second half of next year, and like others have pointed out, I could see one of these Minifigure Accessory Sets being Bad Batch related as well. Lego seems to be getting more bold with sets based off the live action shows (Mando sets are becoming more consistent and Book of Boba Fett is already getting two sets rather than one) but are still a little cautious when it comes to the animated ones. The Clone Wars has sold pretty well over the years but the other shows have been a mixed bag (specifically Rebels and Resistance), and I’m not sure how well the Bad Batch set has done yet, so they’re definitely being more cautious there.

[Mandalorianknight]

7 hours ago, PRbrickbuilder said:

After a bit of thinking and analyses of the accessory packs, I have a theory. These accessory packs usually have the following features:

-No new molds

-Around 3 new prints, consisting of 1 or 2 new figs;

-Repeats from sets currently on shelves;

-They works as an extension to sets from the recent waves;

 

... which makes me believe Bad Batch Crosshairs is a very likely candidate for these packs. Only one new print (the helmet), reusing the other ones torsos, and the pack would be an extension to the Havoc Marauder set. Crosshairs, Hunter repeat and two more figs from Battle of Anaxes, perhaps, and a build for his sniper riffle.

I talked about this a bit, but lego star wars has a different budget than most other themes, which could possibly impact those sets. That said, I think whether it'll be more like a battle pack or the conventional figure pack is going to depend on whether or not they're intended as replacement battle packs or the standard accessory packs.

[kidtheboss611]

8 hours ago, PRbrickbuilder said:

After a bit of thinking and analyses of the accessory packs, I have a theory. These accessory packs usually have the following features:

-No new molds

-Around 3 new prints, consisting of 1 or 2 new figs;

-Repeats from sets currently on shelves;

-They works as an extension to sets from the recent waves;

 

... which makes me believe Bad Batch Crosshairs is a very likely candidate for these packs. Only one new print (the helmet), reusing the other ones torsos, and the pack would be an extension to the Havoc Marauder set. Crosshairs, Hunter repeat and two more figs from Battle of Anaxes, perhaps, and a build for his sniper riffle.

 

This sounds about right but I wouldn't be surprised if we get an Omega and only one massable character as the 4th. I know accessory packs usually have something new but with SW they will sell themselves and when it comes to clones the design team is stingy with details so I doubt we get a new mold, maybe we'll get a new sticker or something. 

4 hours ago, The Stud said:

The way I assumed that they were doing it was keep the army builders relegated to $20 to $30 sets, like the upcoming Hoth Battle Pack or last year’s 501st set, and do the character-centric packs, or at least less-massable ones like the Bounty Hunter or Jedi one, as these Minifigure Accessory Sets. I’m not 100% sure about this theory though, and it’s possible Lego is testing the waters to see how these types of sets do at different sizes and prices.

I don't think they'll keep the a $20 price range cause army builders are where they can sell many multiples so they're gonna try to increase the price as much as possible. They already did so with 501st (yes we got two builds and 2 droids but still) and we're getting a $20 Hoth BP so I would guess they'll increase the price every couple of years and sell a $15 accessory pack, with 3-4 figs and no build instead cause that's far fewer pieces and they can make more money, its basic stonks. 

58 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

I talked about this a bit, but lego star wars has a different budget than most other themes, which could possibly impact those sets. That said, I think whether it'll be more like a battle pack or the conventional figure pack is going to depend on whether or not they're intended as replacement battle packs or the standard accessory packs.

You and others keep saying SW has a "different budget" but I don't think we see that being put to use. If this vid is accurate to how it works in 2021 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3oiy9eekzk) new molds don't cost as much as people think as it's all the same machine. I think the budget is probably entirely marketing and their design team (cause the designers are very good for LSW) and not for new molds or new pieces. If they had this immense budget we'd have holes in P2 clone heads and a stormtrooper helmet that turns around, and I know I keep going back to that but it seems so obvious and easy that I will mention it in this forum till I die. 

Of course, if you meant small budget then forget everything I just wrote. 

 

[wesker]

21 minutes ago, kidtheboss611 said:

This sounds about right but I wouldn't be surprised if we get an Omega and only one massable character as the 4th. I know accessory packs usually have something new but with SW they will sell themselves and when it comes to clones the design team is stingy with details so I doubt we get a new mold, maybe we'll get a new sticker or something.

I can definitely see Omega coming in one of the accessory packs if the Bad Batch ends up being a one-and-done theme like Resistance was. The show might be popular enough to get a second season next year but it also has to compete against Boba Fett, Andor, Kenobi and The Mandalorian which are all likely to be higher priorities in regards to merchandise.

[roboticserpent]

10 minutes ago, wesker said:

I can definitely see Omega coming in one of the accessory packs if the Bad Batch ends up being a one-and-done theme like Resistance was. The show might be popular enough to get a second season next year but it also has to compete against Boba Fett, Andor, Kenobi and The Mandalorian which are all likely to be higher priorities in regards to merchandise.

The Bad Batch is getting a second season next year

[Mandalorianknight]

1 hour ago, kidtheboss611 said:

You and others keep saying SW has a "different budget" but I don't think we see that being put to use. If this vid is accurate to how it works in 2021 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3oiy9eekzk) new molds don't cost as much as people think as it's all the same machine. I think the budget is probably entirely marketing and their design team (cause the designers are very good for LSW) and not for new molds or new pieces. If they had this immense budget we'd have holes in P2 clone heads and a stormtrooper helmet that turns around, and I know I keep going back to that but it seems so obvious and easy that I will mention it in this forum till I die. 

Of course, if you meant small budget then forget everything I just wrote. 

No, it has a larger budget. Take a look in the marvel and DC threads for instance, the marvel sets are doing a bit better the past year or so but in general they can't afford leg printing, much less the variety of new molds. Speaking of new molds, they're seriously expensive, it's the same machine overall, sure, but it's hundreds of thousands of dollars to create a single mold, that's gonna take a chunk out of the budget. 

[wesker]

19 minutes ago, roboticserpent said:

The Bad Batch is getting a second season next year

I know. I just said that.

But there's only so many sets that Lego can release at a time and you've got 5 different Disney Plus shows competing for a spot in the summer wave. One of those shows might have to take a backseat to make room for the others.

[Fuppylodders]

1 hour ago, Mandalorianknight said:

. Speaking of new molds, they're seriously expensive, it's the same machine overall, sure, but it's hundreds of thousands of dollars to create a single mold, 

Nope, typically not. The most expensive was the dice Typically, the cost of the molds fall well below 100k. 

[BrickBob Studpants]

While I’d love a BB pack, I’m very doubtful it’s actually feasible with only around two new prints  Sure, SW has a higher budget than other themes, but that doesn’t automatically translate to higher-value accessory packs 

How about a Mando pack then? Beskar Mando, a repeat of another character like Cara, a Stormie, plus an Incinerator Trooper as the new minifig  

Btw, speaking of Beskar Mando: I love how it went from one of the most anticipated minifigs last winter to now being one of the most easy to get  Probably the easiest-to-acquire minifig with arm-printing EVER

[The Stud]

I’m enjoying Bad Batch much more rewatching the whole season at once and there are definitely multiple things I want as sets. I don’t know how likely those things are going to be when we’re getting Andor and Kenobi around the same time as Season Two’s release, however, especially if they’re also wanting to do more sets for Mando, Clone Wars or the Saga in the second half of next year as well.

Now that I’m thinking about it, Omega in a Minifigure Accesory Set seems like a good way to get a figure of her out fast since she seems to be pretty popular, but what other figures would they include? They could reuse some of the figs from the Havoc Marauder set, but that seems like it would drastically hurt sales of that set and they’d already be out of new prints with Omega, so they couldn’t throw in any other new figures.

5 minutes ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

How about a Mando pack then? Beskar Mando, a repeat of another character like Cara, a Stormie, plus an Incinerator Trooper as the new minifig  

Btw, speaking of Beskar Mando: I love how it went from one of the most anticipated minifigs last winter to now being one of the most easy to get  Probably the easiest-to-acquire minifig with arm-printing EVER

I actually really like that idea. I love the Incinerator Stormtrooper design and feel that it is one of the few figures we’re really missing from Season One (besides Kuiil, The Client and maybe Pershing) so it’d be nice to fill that gap. It would go really well with this year’s Mortar Stormtrooper.

I really like that Beskar Mando is so common too. It’s good for the main character to be so readily available, particularly in his primary outfit, which doesn’t always happen in Lego. It helps that it’s also one of my favorite Star Wars figs to date, and now I own three.

[Bobbtom]

Whether molds are expensive if they cost hundreds of thousands or just 90k is all relative. They were expensive in the 90s when lego was barely scraping by, but now the cost of new molds is evidently no longer a major problem, seeing as they can constantly afford to throw in new molds that are used only once, sometimes for CMFs with a production span of like 3 months, then are never seen again

[kidtheboss611]

6 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

No, it has a larger budget. Take a look in the marvel and DC threads for instance, the marvel sets are doing a bit better the past year or so but in general they can't afford leg printing, much less the variety of new molds. Speaking of new molds, they're seriously expensive, it's the same machine overall, sure, but it's hundreds of thousands of dollars to create a single mold, that's gonna take a chunk out of the budget. 

I thought we were done giving random sale numbers and costs. I doubt very much that molds cost 100K or anything close to that. See attached quote below for reasoning. 

2 hours ago, Bobbtom said:

Whether molds are expensive if they cost hundreds of thousands or just 90k is all relative. They were expensive in the 90s when lego was barely scraping by, but now the cost of new molds is evidently no longer a major problem, seeing as they can constantly afford to throw in new molds that are used only once, sometimes for CMFs with a production span of like 3 months, then are never seen again

On the nite of CMF's if/when we get a SW CMF I bet it would be for one movie/show and not by era. And if so I don't see how they would reach the 10-12 character target without some repeats/ slightly upgraded figs. Thus my guess for a CMF is either Lego goes all out on a CMF and makes new molds for relatively smaller characters (like Dex or Zam Wessel) or they would do things like an arm print Obi-Wan or Jango and it might fall flat since there won't be those sought after figures. 

I don't think they'll do this but making small accessory packs for $15 from each SW movie/show with maybe 1-2 new figs/characters would be perfect. It'd be a great way to make sought-after characters available (since the designers made that very clear in the Gunship reveal video) and it would be cheaper so more fans could get their favorites. 

[TeddytheSpoon]

49 minutes ago, kidtheboss611 said:

I thought we were done giving random sale numbers and costs. I doubt very much that molds cost 100K or anything close to that. See attached quote below for reasoning. 

I don't think they'll do this but making small accessory packs for $15 from each SW movie/show with maybe 1-2 new figs/characters would be perfect. It'd be a great way to make sought-after characters available (since the designers made that very clear in the Gunship reveal video) and it would be cheaper so more fans could get their favorites. 

You'd be surprised. The molds are made from ridiculously hard and heavy materials, machined to hundredths if not thousandths of a millimetre, and have to churn out parts every few seconds on a near-constant basis over their lifetime, sometimes ten to fifteen years. Aside from the machining there's also the cost associated with designing the things (which, as a design engineer, I can tell you is not especially cheap!). For sure not every mold will have six figures attached to it - for single-molded minifigure parts like helmets I would expect somewhere around 70k - but some molds costing 100-200k is not outside the realms of possibility.

[Brikkyy13]

40 minutes ago, TeddytheSpoon said:

I would expect somewhere around 70k - but some molds costing 100-200k is not outside the realms of possibility.

I remember reading in a book like 10 years ago that 200k was the cost of a new mould. It’s probably gotten cheaper over time but some of the more impressive parts would still be expensive. 

[TeddytheSpoon]

35 minutes ago, Brikkyy13 said:

I remember reading in a book like 10 years ago that 200k was the cost of a new mould. It’s probably gotten cheaper over time but some of the more impressive parts would still be expensive. 

Yeah, I can imagine something like the dewback mold to be crazy expensive. It's the tolerances that drive the prices up so much - one of the reasons I don't like some knockoff brands is that their tolerances are clearly not tight enough, and it shows in the variation in part clutch. The fact that LEGO bricks from today are still compatible with bricks from the 50s is down to those tolerances.

That might have got a bit off-topic but the engineering behind LEGO bricks is genuinely fascinating to me.

[jdubbs]

I think there may be some confusion about "budget" when it comes to new molds. We've heard LEGO designers talk about how the line or the set they worked on only had budget for X number of new molds/new colored parts... but this isn't just about monetary budget... it's all the human resources required to get those molds designed, tooled, and tested, which are always going to be finite and in-demand. Even if LEGO had an infinite pile of cash to throw at creating new molds, there are still only so many 3D modelers, tooling engineers, QA testers — not to mention machines in the factory — available to produce new molds and parts based on them. "Budget" is more than just costing... it's bandwidth/capacity too.

Also bear in mind that recolors of existing parts often require a new mold... so while we may perceive there to be just 5 or 6 new molds in the SW lineup in a year, there are no doubt many others that never occur to us for part recolors.

[Mandalorianknight]

15 hours ago, Fuppylodders said:

Nope, typically not. The most expensive was the dice Typically, the cost of the molds fall well below 100k. 

Dice?

as others have said, lego's qouted it as well over 100k a few years ago, and while it's possible it's gone down somewhat, just looking at other themes shows that it most likely hasn't. Not to beat a dead horse, but again bringing up the superheroes theme, if new molds were cheap enough to be producing them (as @jdubbs said, cost not necessarily just meaning monetary cost), they'd be doing more.

7 hours ago, jdubbs said:

I think there may be some confusion about "budget" when it comes to new molds. We've heard LEGO designers talk about how the line or the set they worked on only had budget for X number of new molds/new colored parts... but this isn't just about monetary budget... it's all the human resources required to get those molds designed, tooled, and tested, which are always going to be finite and in-demand. Even if LEGO had an infinite pile of cash to throw at creating new molds, there are still only so many 3D modelers, tooling engineers, QA testers — not to mention machines in the factory — available to produce new molds and parts based on them. "Budget" is more than just costing... it's bandwidth/capacity too.

Also bear in mind that recolors of existing parts often require a new mold... so while we may perceive there to be just 5 or 6 new molds in the SW lineup in a year, there are no doubt many others that never occur to us for part recolors.

I never thought about it that way, that's a good point. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Mandalorianknight

[Stuartn]

8 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Dice?

This part:

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?G=64776#T=S&O={"iconly":0}

It and chain elements are reportedly the most expensive moulds.

[Mandalorianknight]

6 minutes ago, Stuartn said:

This part:

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?G=64776#T=S&O={"iconly":0}

It and chain elements are reportedly the most expensive moulds.

I can see both of those, what with the rubber inserts for the die and the fact that the chain is 3 seperate molds made together.

 

 

My overall point is that LSW has a larger budget than a good number of the accessory pack themes (superheroes for sure, I'm not sure about harry potter and ninjago but I'd guess they're roughly on par with it), so it's possible that they won't have the same print limitations. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Mandalorianknight

[Fuppylodders]

1 hour ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Dice?

as others have said, lego's qouted it as well over 100k a few years ago, and while it's possible it's gone down somewhat, just looking at other themes shows that it most likely hasn't. Not to beat a dead horse, but again bringing up the superheroes theme, if new molds were cheap enough to be producing them (as @jdubbs said, cost not necessarily just meaning monetary cost), they'd be doing more.

While 'others are saying lego have quoted well over 100k', lego themselves in a documentary said up to 200k for the more/most intricate molds such as the dice (and chain, both of which Stuartn linked to) are on the upper end. They certainly won't be producing molds in the 200k range too often. I'm almost certain they alluded to the average being somewhere just under 100k. Given the dice and chain would likely have more than just 2 halves and job done, that'll be where the extreme cost goes. Straight forward molds will likely be between 50k-100k. I had a quote for around 3k to create a mold for a lens. The lens would have to be spotlessly smooth, which would require a high precision of milling on the cnc machine to create something smooth enough. 

And as has been brought up, cmfs use new molds all the damned time. There's no way a simple new mold costs that much all the time. Especially when there are Chinese knock off companies making almost perfectly replicated bricks/figures etc, the only telling difference being the slight colour distortion or 'not as high quality abs plastic' being used. The fitment being just as good.

Id also like to point out that legos clutch power over the years has started to decline. Even their own brand new pieces aren't providing as good a clutch as they used to. So their tolerances aren't exactly all that either. 

As also has been brought up by jdubbs and I can fully get behind, the budget of everything that goes along with a new mold is likely the driving force. 

[Mandalorianknight]

7 minutes ago, Fuppylodders said:

While 'others are saying lego have quoted well over 100k', lego themselves in a documentary said up to 200k for the more/most intricate molds such as the dice (and chain, both of which Stuartn linked to) are on the upper end. They certainly won't be producing molds in the 200k range too often. I'm almost certain they alluded to the average being somewhere just under 100k. Given the dice and chain would likely have more than just 2 halves and job done, that'll be where the extreme cost goes. Straight forward molds will likely be between 50k-100k. I had a quote for around 3k to create a mold for a lens. The lens would have to be spotlessly smooth, which would require a high precision of milling on the cnc machine to create something smooth enough. 

And as has been brought up, cmfs use new molds all the damned time. There's no way a simple new mold costs that much all the time. Especially when there are Chinese knock off companies making almost perfectly replicated bricks/figures etc, the only telling difference being the slight colour distortion or 'not as high quality abs plastic' being used. The fitment being just as good.

Id also like to point out that legos clutch power over the years has started to decline. Even their own brand new pieces aren't providing as good a clutch as they used to. So their tolerances aren't exactly all that either. 

As also has been brought up by jdubbs and I can fully get behind, the budget of everything that goes along with a new mold is likely the driving force. 

I agree with the last statement, but yeah if it's just under 100k for the average mold that's not exactly cheap. The CMFS are made out of a slightly different plastic than the standard brick, which I assume has some impact on the cost of molds used, same with the knockoffs. And again with jdubb's reminder that it's not just the monetary cost of the mold itself, the fact that the knockoffs just make low-quality versions of existing lego parts probably also has something to do with it.

[GlacierPhoenix]

Anything thing to consider is yes we're debating the price of a single mold. However for a single element you're likely not just looking at one mold you're looking at a few of them at each of their factories. The reason CMFs were able to do so many molds was because they were out of a single factory and were short productions runs so they didn't need to be the bestst longest lasting material. So you could blitz through them in a week and never mold them again. 

 

If LEGO only had a single mold going of say a characters piece or a unique windscreen if that mold goes down you're looking at millions in lost sales. 

[BrickBob Studpants]

7 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

[…] so it's possible that they won't have the same print limitations. 

Possible? Yes. Likely? Ehhhh…

Let’s say I wouldn’t bet a dime on it. But if they’re playing their hand well, they can get a lot out of 2 prints (and possibly a recoloured piece) for each pack 

[Anonknee Muss]

20 hours ago, jdubbs said:

I think there may be some confusion about "budget" when it comes to new molds. We've heard LEGO designers talk about how the line or the set they worked on only had budget for X number of new molds/new colored parts... but this isn't just about monetary budget... it's all the human resources required to get those molds designed, tooled, and tested, which are always going to be finite and in-demand. Even if LEGO had an infinite pile of cash to throw at creating new molds, there are still only so many 3D modelers, tooling engineers, QA testers — not to mention machines in the factory — available to produce new molds and parts based on them. "Budget" is more than just costing... it's bandwidth/capacity too.

Also bear in mind that recolors of existing parts often require a new mold... so while we may perceive there to be just 5 or 6 new molds in the SW lineup in a year, there are no doubt many others that never occur to us for part recolors.

Not to mention finite warehouse space (which is the reason quoted by Designers as to why not all minifigures get printed legs).