[Poll] Do you like LEGO as a company?

[Alexandrina]

36 minutes ago, MAB said:

So are LEGO any less complicit now they have done the LGBT rainbow and an adult aimed licensed set with gay men in it?

No, LEGO are less complicit now that their company culture is explicitly inclusive of LGBT+ identities. Sets are only a small part of it - and the most visible, especially for those not in the community - but let's not forget that Lego are also partnered with multiple organisations including Stonewall specifically to ensure a safer and more inclusive work environment for their LGBTQ+ employees. I may be mistaken as I can't find it any more, but I have a memory of reading somewhere that Lego offer assistance to trans employees who are transitioning, something which is pretty much non-existent among corporations, at least in the UK (the only other companies who I know for a fact include transition care in their health benefits are Boots and Starbucks) - when the alternative for trans people is either waiting multiple decades for treatment (current estimates reckon the NHS is 27 years behind on the waiting lists) or paying thousands out of pocket, this is an incredible boon. Even if I'm mistaken on Lego including this, I know for a fact that Lego do employee trans people on the same merits as cis people, and that in itself is highly commendable when something like 40% of surveyed bosses in the UK explicitly said they would not hire a trans person.

42 minutes ago, MAB said:

They have not challenged the status quo when it comes to anything unlicensed, especially in their flagship City line that depicts "normal life". They still haven't done a house set with a bed and two men or two women, they still haven't done a set with minifigures with an obviously male head on a body with female clothes / torso or vice versa in City, and so on. They are still choosing the status quo for the majority of their product line, and all of it that is aimed at children.

I'm not super familiar with the City line, I'll be honest, but if there have been no same-sex couples shown that is a shame. Regarding trans people, though, it's difficult - especially in Lego form - to portray trans people who aren't established characters from other media. The method you suggest - a male head on a female body, or vice versa - represents a small subset of trans people, and runs the risk of being seen as offensive if it were to be the only portrayal of trans people Lego did, as it would lean into harmful stereotypes of trans women as "men in dresses". I know that if Lego were to make a minifigure of me, it would be indistinguishable from any other female minifigure, since the parts of my body that are masculine are not portrayed in Lego form anyway. It's a tough job for Lego, especially since - to my knowledge - there aren't any trans characters in any of their licenses.

That said, there is the argument that Robin Loot from Barracuda Bay is a trans woman - every other figure in the set is a modernisation of a classic Pirates figure, and the only figure from the ship Robin Loot is said to be on who wears a green waistcoat like her is a male-presenting figure. And further, what difference would it make if one of their in-house characters - Freya McCloud, for instance - were trans? The minifigure would be no different.

[Lion King]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

So are LEGO any less complicit now they have done the LGBT rainbow and an adult aimed licensed set with gay men in it?

They have not challenged the status quo when it comes to anything unlicensed, especially in their flagship City line that depicts "normal life". They still haven't done a house set with a bed and two men or two women, they still haven't done a set with minifigures with an obviously male head on a body with female clothes / torso or vice versa in City, and so on. They are still choosing the status quo for the majority of their product line, and all of it that is aimed at children. 

I imagine that is because LGBT City sets are likely to sell less well to the majority of families buying them and may put some people off the whole line and LEGO do not want to risk that. Whereas one off adult aimed sets produced for Pride month are not really any different to Coca Cola printing a Pride rainbow on limited edition bottles or M&S doing Lettuce, Guacamole,  Bacon and Tomato sandwiches - it is just targeted advertising unless they actually start to change the societal viewpoint they continue to portray in City. If LEGO were previously complicit in that they didn't do gay or trans people, then to me they are still complicit.

I gotta say, I agree with you.

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Lira_Bricks said:

I agree with you. It is nice seeing disabilities being portrayed in Lego City, but there is not a lot done for non-white, non-cis, non-gender-conforming and non-hetero people.

I Disagree with the non-white part. There is not a lot done for white people in City either as the people there are yellow. I know some people choose to see them as white only. I see them as people without a particular (human / real) race.

It is quite easy to depict some disabilities, as it can be done visually and also sensitively. Wheelchairs, hearing aids, walking canes, blind canes, and so on can be done in a realistic sensitive way. I have a disability that cannot easily be depicted. I look non-disabled, I look like a "normal" person. Does that mean I am not represented or that I am? I choose to think that I am represented by many of the (male) figures. Unless there is a minifigure that looks like me attending a LEGO hospital and being tested on a machine like me, then I am not explicitly represented for that one (important) aspect of my life but I still choose that I am represented by many figures, since nobody knows whether they have the same disability. Similarly sexuality cannot be done so easily as it is (often) invisible if you just look at the person in isolation. Of course, camp men can be depicted through outfits, but that can be an offensive stereotype leading to an accusation that they portray all gay men as camp using the assumption that any minifigures that are not camp must be straight. When in reality, most gay men look like most straight men. We don't know if a refuse collector or train guard is gay or straight, in real life or in a LEGO set. It is only by looking at the specific behaviour / setting that we can tell. Obviously their behaviour is governed by the person doing the playing, so it is only down to specific settings and it is only very occasionally that an official set will give clues - mainly surrounded about the home life of the minifigure. In most LEGO sets there are no clues at all - yet some people assume that the minifigures must be straight just like people assume that they must also be white. There are not many City minifigures that are definitely gender-conforming straight people. It seems to me that the only way LEGO can clearly depict a gay man (in an unlicensed City set) is to depict two gay men in a house set with one double bed. And I don't think LEGO are prepared to do that, at least yet. It is easy to do in a licensed set, since they are depicting a TV / movie character with a known backstory (whether fictional or real/reality). Until LEGO decide to do it (and even after) I think we can assign any sexuality or gender we like on all existing figures.

[MAB]

58 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

That said, there is the argument that Robin Loot from Barracuda Bay is a trans woman - every other figure in the set is a modernisation of a classic Pirates figure, and the only figure from the ship Robin Loot is said to be on who wears a green waistcoat like her is a male-presenting figure.

There is a counter argument that she is not trans and that Barracuda Bay happens in a time after Classic sets, generations afterwards in which she is the daughter rather than son of Captain Redbeard.

And isn't that really the point? The person playing can make up their own storyline and assign characters however they wish.

1 hour ago, Alexandrina said:

And further, what difference would it make if one of their in-house characters - Freya McCloud, for instance - were trans? The minifigure would be no different.

Indeed, the minfiigure would be no different. So maybe she is trans but doesn't tell everyone about it. I don't follow the backstory to City. If the story hasn't explicitly stated she is not trans, how do we know she is not trans? All we would know is that she is a female fire chief. People can assign other parts of her life as they wish. It doesn't matter if different fans decide on different paths in their equivalent of fan fiction.

[Lego David]

1 hour ago, Lira_Bricks said:

And now we have the same situation as usual. The same people spewing hatred (allanp, Lego David,...

Hey, I don't believe any of us in here have spewed any hatred, we just stared our own opinion about certain subjects. I don't believe either of us have insulted anything or anyone, and if we have, I apologize. 

I just don't understand why those days it's getting so hard for most people to distinguish between "hate speech" and just stating an opinion or point of view. Not agreeing with other people doesn't mean you hate them. 

So please, just calm down a little and be more open minded about other people's opinions, even if you don't agree with them. 

[williejm]

25 minutes ago, Lego David said:I just don't understand why those days it's getting so hard for most people to distinguish between "hate speech" and just stating an opinion or point of view. Not agreeing with other people doesn't mean you hate them. 

So please, just calm down a little and be more open minded about other people's opinions, even if you don't agree with them. 

Sigh.

Maybe look up ‘gaslighting’ and ‘both sides-ing’?

When someone’s existence, identity, and validity is being disagreed with - that *is* hateful. 

And, with all due respect, those who are calling you out are being VERY calm and civil, all things considered. Please don’t condescend to tell us to calm down, that’s standard dog-whistle tactics. 

[Alexandrina]

44 minutes ago, MAB said:

And isn't that really the point? The person playing can make up their own storyline and assign characters however they wish.

Yes, that is exactly the point. It's silly to criticise Lego for not having explicitly trans minifigures in their in-house sets, when doing so would require them to create a backstory that includes the fact - when the whole point of Lego is to make up one's own story. Lego have shown no reticence to make minifigures of LGBTQ+ characters from their licenses, so there's no reason to think they wouldn't do trans characters - but none of their licenses have a trans character, to my knowledge (except Birdo from Mario, but they haven't done minifigures at all for Mario yet and Birdo's not exactly the most famous character). In the absence of this, the best they can really do is sets like Everyone Is Awesome for representation - the only other option I can think of is the trans flag somewhere in a set.

[dr_spock]

It can be a diverse color spectrum:

[MurlosTehnik]

I am a new member, but i have been following  the forum for quite some time.

And I find it sad that every time, there is a cool new topic about Lego, those persons have to introduce their gender and their beliefs and ruin (or get locked) the whole topic for the whole forum, just so they can use the opportunity to voice their "beliefs" or how-to-call-it-so-no-one-is-offenced...c'mon! Do it somewhere else, please. 
I hate to name anyone, but I fully agree with Allanp and David, and, sorry to say, but Alexandrina guy seems to provoke the most, he just can't enjoy Lego without forcing the genders talks...
I mean, don't do it a on a Lego forum. This is a LEGO forum! This is not an lgbt, gay or "I believe i am XYZ gender" forum. 
 

@All: Why can't we just please discuss about Lego, our mocs, sets and parts?

.........................................

Having said that, and to get back to real Lego conversation, yes, OP, I love LEGO and I love what it has done for me. I enjoy their products, mainly parts, as I like to build moc, and I like the joy I feel when I build. They have had their questionable moments, but i still love them!

PS. Sorry mods if this sounds harsh, I just hate to see this beloved forum clogged with this, instead of great mocs and such.
Please don't let the forum end up woke. 

[Duvors]

7 hours ago, allanp said:

No I am not. 

My apologies, I made the mistake of responding without reading your initial post. However, my objection to the complaints raised about the name of the set still stand. It's a marketing gimmick not meant to be taken literally and the fact that people seem to think it was meant literally is absurd.

[williejm]

23 minutes ago, MurlosTehnik said:

I am a new member, but i have been following  the forum for quite some time.

This is a really offensive and unacceptable post. No wonder people (defending themselves) feel the need to call this out and feel unwelcome. 
would be grateful if mods take this down. 

[Murdoch17]

5 minutes ago, williejm said:

This is a really offensive and unacceptable post. No wonder people (defending themselves) feel the need to call this out and feel unwelcome. 
would be grateful if mods take this down. 

 Agreed! @Jim you wanna help us out here?

Edited September 24, 2021 by Murdoch17

[Vindicare]

14 hours ago, metalgeekzy said:

Its actually under "city" I got a camper set and a few space sets. It covers a large range of sets. 

I meant the list of sets that needed to stop being advertised. Firemen had nothing to do with it, but they were added, I assume, because they are an emergency service like the police. 

[williejm]

4 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

I meant the list of sets that needed to stop being advertised. Firemen had nothing to do with it, but they were added, I assume, because they are an emergency service like the police. 

It was just Lego making a decision not to enflame or exacerbate the situation in a way that might seem tone-deaf to what was happening *in the real world* … 

[Classic_Spaceman]

55 minutes ago, MurlosTehnik said:

. . . but Alexandrina guy seems to provoke the most, he just can't enjoy Lego without forcing the genders talks...

@Alexandrina is female - Please use the correct pronouns.