kbalage

New LEGO rechargeable battery spotted

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I stumbled upon some information on LEGO's website about a new rechargeable battery called "Rechargeable Battery No. 4". You can read the full story in the linked article, but here're the main parameters:

7.3V, 600 mAh, 4.38 Wh, weight: 25g

That's a pretty small battery with low capacity, so I'm really wondering what could be the product where it will be used. There're 3 set numbers listed on the webpage (45345, 45609, 45612) which suggest mostly Education products, although the first one is close the the WeDo 2.0 product numbers and I'd be surprised to see a new product developed for that. So maybe the first one can be a regular consumer product? We'll see soon I guess.

I listed some theories in my blog post, but I'd love to hear your versions. 

 

 

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Think about education team made new BricQ set for replace machines & mechanics but it doesen't include any kind of motor, I think it will be include in new extension pack of BricQ.

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600mah is what you get in a MouldKing battery. It doesn't get you far, but it's fine especially for smaller lighter models.

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3 hours ago, kbalage said:

I listed some theories in my blog post, but I'd love to hear your versions. 

I would love it if theory #2 turned out to be true.  I would love to see Mindstorms sensors that are wireless. Color or force sensor would be great.  I would also love to see an encoder that’s separate from the motor to accurately measure rotation.  I suspect that 600 mAh is probably too large for these applications, however, so it seems very unlikely to me.

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Hmmm, the name "Technic Small Hub" sounds promising. Hopefully it's not the train one in a different case... 

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26 minutes ago, syclone said:

Hmmm, the name "Technic Small Hub" sounds promising. Hopefully it's not the train one in a different case... 

Wanna bet? It has a 600 mAh battery... at least the case will be (hopefully) smaller, but I'd be very surprised to see more than 2 ports on it.

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I checked the page again but apparently the "Technic" category for the hub is only as promising as the Spike Prime / Mindstorms hub since that one is also called Technic Large Hub. As I see there'll be a new (probably smaller) Spike Prime basic set, and the hub and the battery will be also sold separately, these are the 3 products. Apparently all of them belong to the Education line so not much excitement for the Powered Up community at the moment. 

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600mAh and Education reminds me to the Energy-Meter with 2 PowerFunction connectors.

Will there be replaced the PowerFunction Energy-Meter by a PoweredUp Version ?

600mAh (3,7V Li-Ion) instead 200mAh (8,4V NiMH Varta HR 6F22) and 2 Ports, one to a Hub like Spike/Inventor and second for a Motor, maybe ?

The short-term confidentialy for internal & external photos and an User-Manual ends 180 days after 29.04.2021 (noted in the document Cover-Leter), so arround 01.Nov 2021 we should know more.

 

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On 7/22/2021 at 9:54 PM, kbalage said:

Wanna bet? It has a 600 mAh battery... at least the case will be (hopefully) smaller, but I'd be very surprised to see more than 2 ports on it.

Well, the existing one is too huge for only two ports, so it makes sense... 

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Posted (edited)

There are now official product descriptions available (via instruction search on LEGO.com):

  • 45607: LEGO® Technic™ Small Angular Motor
  • 45608: LEGO® Technic™ 3x3 Color Light Matrix
  • 45609: LEGO® Technic™ Small Hub (2 ports, gyro sensor, usb port for charging, bluetooth)
  • And s single battery for the Small hub: 45612
  • All components will be available in this set: 45345: LEGO Education SPIKE Essential

I wrote an article about this on Zusammengebaut.

But still no official images yet.

Edited by XoverBrick

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, XoverBrick said:

There are now official product descriptions available (via instruction search on LEGO.com):

  • 45607: LEGO® Technic™ Small Angular Motor
  • 45608: LEGO® Technic™ 3x3 Color Light Matrix
  • 45609: LEGO® Technic™ Small Hub (2 ports, gyro sensor, usb port for charging, bluetooth)
  • And s single battery for the Small hub: 45612
  • All components will be available in this set: 45345: LEGO Education SPIKE Essential

I wrote an article about this on Zusammengebaut.

But still no official images yet.

It has very similer name with bricQ essential and prime.(45401 and 45400). Maybe wedo 2.0 will be retired and spike essential will replace it.

If this is real, spike essential will be brick main unlike liftarm main spike prime.

Edited by msk6003

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@XoverBrick very interesting, thanks for sharing! Where did you find the official description of the items? They are not listed on the instructions page :) 

The hardware seems to be very promising, my only concern is the limitation from the software side - I guess the new hub and the light matrix will be only supported by the Spike Prime app and I don't expect a quick change in this. I'm almost sure the motor won't be supported by the Powered Up app either initially, but hopefully that can be added faster. 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/4/2021 at 8:21 AM, kbalage said:

@XoverBrick very interesting, thanks for sharing! Where did you find the official description of the items? They are not listed on the instructions page :)  

Yes, they are on the instructions page :D But you have to analyze the hidden traffic in the Web Developer Tools in your browser. After typing the number you will see in the "Network" tab of your Web Developer Tools an Ajax response with detailed information. Web Developer Tools should be available in Firefox and Chrome (without any additional extensions).

On 8/4/2021 at 2:42 AM, msk6003 said:

Maybe wedo 2.0 will be retired and spike essential will replace it. 

Very interesting! Maybe the new Spike hub is even smaller. The WeDo 2.0 hub has 900mAh @ 3.7V (according to this image here). Also the BricQ things look promising, because of the minifigs and similiar amount of bricks!

Edited by XoverBrick
typo

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3 minutes ago, XoverBrick said:

Very interesting! Maybe the new Spike hub is even smaller. The WeDo 2.0 hub has 900mAh @ 3.7V (according to this image here). Also the BricQ things look promising, because of the minifigs and similiar amount of bricks!

Actually, I'm more interested in small angular motor. As far as I know, this is first time TLG use 'small' adjective for motor name. I hope it's size is 3x3x3 without disc output.(3x3x4 if include disc)

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2 hours ago, XoverBrick said:

Yes, they are on the instructions page :D But you have to analyze the hidden traffic in the Web Developer Tools in your browser. After typing the number you will see in the "Network" tab of your Web Developer Tools an Ajax response with detailed information. Web Developer Tools should be available in Firefox and Chrome (without any additional extensions).

Very interesting! Maybe the new Spike hub is even smaller. The WeDo 2.0 hub has 900mAh @ 3.7V (according to this image here). Also the BricQ things look promising, because of the minifigs and similiar amount of bricks!

Is the output voltage also 3.7V? That'd be pretty slow for Lego motors!

 

2 hours ago, msk6003 said:

Actually, I'm more interested in small angular motor. As far as I know, this is first time TLG use 'small' adjective for motor name. I hope it's size is 3x3x3 without disc output.(3x3x4 if include disc)

That would be amazing, provided it has PU app support!

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1 hour ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

Is the output voltage also 3.7V? That'd be pretty slow for Lego motors!

The WeDo 2.0 battery has a voltage output of 3.7V. The hub boosts it to 5V for the motors. The new battery is 7.3V.

1 hour ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

That would be amazing, provided it has PU app support!

I fear that it will be M-size if we consider the successfull naming of the PUP parts so far.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Tcm0 said:

The WeDo 2.0 battery has a voltage output of 3.7V. The hub boosts it to 5V for the motors. The new battery is 7.3V. 

I guess PU output is up to 9V? (like PF). Or am I wrong?

Another nice information: If you use Google Image Search using "3.7V 630mAh lithium li-ion polymer" you will find mostly one type of rechargeable battery! The size of it is 4.4x35x43 mm - it could be similar to the WeDo 2.0 in size, but much thinner (just for the rechargeable battery).

16 hours ago, msk6003 said:

I hope it's size is 3x3x3 without disc output.(3x3x4 if include disc)

To sad to have so few specs about the motor. The smallest LEGO motor so far was this one in red. But according to given specs it should has a gyro sensor built in, so I don't have big hopes for 2x2.

But 3x3x4 would be awesome like the late 9V motors before PF came out. (edit: it was 4x4x3 or something similar :D)

Edited by XoverBrick

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2 hours ago, XoverBrick said:

I guess PU output is up to 9V? (like PF). Or am I wrong?

Yeah PUP, PF etc are beeing called 9V but it's not that simple. 9V is the output voltage of 6 AA batteries (6x1.5V=9V). If you use rechargeable batteries instead, they are rated 1.2V (6x1.2V=7.2V). But actually batteries drop in voltage when they are beeing discharged. So the actual voltage of a AA battery isn't 1.5V. It can be something between like 1.7V when it's new and 1V if it's older.

Then we have lithium-type batteries. The output voltage of the cells depends on the elements used. For normal lithium batteries, the output voltage is around 3.7V (equal to the output of the wedo 2.0 rechargeable battery - what a surprise). Lego simply uses 2 of these cells in a row (2x3.7V=7.4V) to get "close" to 9V.

And then we have WeDo. The first WeDo set came with a USB connector but USB only supplies 5V. I think that lego decided that 5V is enough for school projects. The motors are a bit slower etc. but it's enough for M-Motors in models that don't need much torque. Another factor might be that the sensors don't need 9V (but I don't know much about wedo 1.0 sensors).
They stayed with 5V for the motors for WeDo 2.0, the powered up sensors can be used with up to 3.3V. The wedo 2.0 hub can be powered with 2AA batteries thanks to the lower voltage (instead of 6 batteries; 2x1.5V=3V) and is smaller than the city hub but the voltage has to be boosted for the motors.

 

3 hours ago, XoverBrick said:

To sad to have so few specs about the motor. The smallest LEGO motor so far was this one in red. But according to given specs it should has a gyro sensor built in, so I don't have big hopes for 2x2.

But 3x3x4 would be awesome like the late 9V motors before PF came out. (edit: it was 4x4x3 or something similar :D)

I would be surprised if the motor was actually that small. We have the large and the medium angular motor. I guess that the small angular motor will be around the size of the M-Motor (the simple linear motor).
By the way: I think that the part about the gyro sensor is an error in the translation and simply wrong. Gyro sensors aren't precise enough for angular motors.

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On 8/6/2021 at 1:46 PM, Tcm0 said:

By the way: I think that the part about the gyro sensor is an error in the translation and simply wrong.

Ah, I see… here is the original text of the motor:
 

Quote

45607, LEGO® Technic™ Small Angular Motor
• Ideal for low-load applications.
• Compact design profile – great when space is at a premium.
• Absolute positioning and integrated rotation sensor.
• Magnet feedback control for precise accuracy.
• Zero-point markings for simple calibration.
• Simple form factor for quick building and rebuilding.
• For use with the LEGO® Technic™ Small Hub (45609) and LEGO Technic Large Hub (45601).

In addition here is the original English text for the small hub:

Quote

45609, LEGO® Technic™ Small Hub
• Features 2 I/O ports, Bluetooth connectivity, 6-axis gyro, and a rechargeable lithium-ion battery with micro USB charging and connection port.
• For use with LEGO® Technic™ motors and sensors.
• Take control of your Small Hub with the free SPIKE™ App for tablets and computers.

So I was wrong and gyro sensor is in the hub. And I see "micro USB" (this one was missing in German texts) - sad to see "new" technology in 2021 using micro USB :(

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58 minutes ago, XoverBrick said:

Ah, I see… here is the original text of the motor:
 

In addition here is the original English text for the small hub:

So I was wrong and gyro sensor is in the hub. And I see "micro USB" (this one was missing in German texts) - sad to see "new" technology in 2021 using micro USB :(

While USB-c would definitely be better considering the future, I don't see using micro USB problematic either, it does everything this kind of device needs. The RI hub btw. also uses micro USB for charging and I think it can also be programmed through it, though there's not much reason not to use bluetooth.

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Micro usb connectors are cheaper than usb-c.  Every cents count towards your business bottom line.  :pir-classic:

 

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