[TC20] Technic Studless Recreation Contest - Information Topic

[Jim]

22 minutes ago, 1974 said:

Also, you can make digital MOCs with a thousand buggy motors and we'd end up with the Technic equivalent of SW EP9 where everyone think's they're JJ Abrams

This is not Minecraft, building with real parts is what LEGO is all about

This is a way better explanation than the one I gave. Well spoken 

[msk6003]

2 hours ago, Jim said:

That's okay 

Got it.

[KirTech LAB]

Hi! Awesome contest!

"Mindstorms and LEGO Electronics are not permitted" - Is it true also for sets that really have a motor? For example 8868 has a motorized compressor for smooth pneumatics operation.

 

[Jim]

8 minutes ago, desert752 said:

"Mindstorms and LEGO Electronics are not permitted" - Is it true also for sets that really have a motor? For example 8868 has a motorized compressor for smooth pneumatics operation.

Unfortunately yes. No electronics whatsoever.

[2GodBDGlory]

10 hours ago, Jim said:

Unfortunately yes. No electronics whatsoever.

Wait...

I'm thinking that if I neutralize all electrically charged particles (ions) in my model the ABS will disintegrate. Can I get a chemist's opinion on this? Besides, how am I supposed to selectively turn off the electroweak force, one of the three fundamental forces in the universe? And what about the potential uses such technology could have for weapons of mass destruction? I'm a bit worried about the implications of such a rule!

[Touc4nx]

11 hours ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

I neutralize all electrically charged particles (ions) in my model the ABS will disintegrate.

It depends on which scale you look at. Because at a human scale, the overall charge of your ABS is neutral. Therefore, there is no need to neutralize it, as it's already neutral.
And tbh, I think that ABS isn't made of ions, as it's a derivate of organic products. I think it's mainly made of covalent bonds.

Sorry for of topic, this was my chemist rant 

[weavil]

I was thinking of doing the the 8448, or has it been done before?

[Jurss]

56 minutes ago, weavil said:

or has it been done before?

It doesn't matter, just build Your version.

[weavil]

4 hours ago, Jurss said:

It doesn't matter, just build Your version.

Ok

[Stuartn]

Sorry if this was already asked, but are licensed original sets allowed for this contest, provided they were already a studded set, I understand regular classic system sets are, but I just wanted to check

[Milan]

7 hours ago, Stuartn said:

Sorry if this was already asked, but are licensed original sets allowed for this contest, provided they were already a studded set, I understand regular classic system sets are, but I just wanted to check

It shouldn't make a difference. Just to make sure, can you post what set exactly you had in mind?

[Stuartn]

13 hours ago, Milan said:

It shouldn't make a difference. Just to make sure, can you post what set exactly you had in mind?

I was thinking the 2003 Star Wars Republic Gunship, I figured out a technic mechanism and frame for a 'system-style' MOC I never completed, so I thought this might be a good opportunity to finish it in another way

[Milan]

12 hours ago, Stuartn said:

I was thinking the 2003 Star Wars Republic Gunship, I figured out a technic mechanism and frame for a 'system-style' MOC I never completed, so I thought this might be a good opportunity to finish it in another way

Yeah, any existing set is okay!
If you haven't posted your moc or its progress anywhere online before the contest, you are okay to enter with it.

[MangaNOID]

There is some discussion about scale and eligibility for tc20 in WIP threads so maybe best to move it here.

Perhaps this has come from a slightly ambiguous wording from the entry  rules 

• There is no scale limitation, but the closer the scale matches the original scale, the better. Try to stay as close to the original as possible

its a bit late now but there should be either scale limitation or no scale limitation?
 

also a bit ambiguous? 

• True to the original

This is probably easier for technic studded rebuilds but not the system entries?

the entries are very varied which to be honest makes voting hard because for me the studded technic rebuilds can stay way closer to the rules But the system rebuilds are looking more interesting for me. Not to take anything away from technic rebuilds, but the interpretations of the systems sets is more diverse and perhaps what you would not expect to see. 
 

anyway, may be best to post stuff here rather than in individual WIP threads that may demotivate the builder.

 

[Jundis]

@MangaNOID : I think you are referring to my entry.

In the generic contest thread, this has already been heavily discussed and the contest itself is limited in selection of builds, but not size, as you already stated.

48 minutes ago, MangaNOID said:

There is no scale limitation, but the closer the scale matches the original scale, the better. Try to stay as close to the original as possible

I see this rule just to prevent from extremely big builds, recreating an already big set. Voting criteria are:

• True to the original
• Quality of the build.
• Looks (shape, color scheme, etc).
• Functionality.
• Originality. 

All criteria are pointing not to just a remake (take out technic bricks and put in liftarms instead) but, as the name of the contest already shows, a recreation, which means a modern technic interpretation.

As @brickless_kiwi stated perfectly in my thread:

6 hours ago, brickless_kiwi said:

At the end of the day. People will vote with hearts and minds. One of the issues with the competition as I see is interpretation of the rules.. a lot of people are struggling with staying as close to the original except one or two... but then we are seeing some fantastic entries that people would have never thought or dreamed to build and I like to see everyone's creative thinking.

As a last note: Contests are for fun, mostly to challenge yourself and not battling each other :-)

[MangaNOID]

1 hour ago, Jundis said:

@MangaNOID : I think you are referring to my entry.

 

I was!

But just to make it clear, as re reading my post is not clear, but I am not against your build or anyone else’s build that might seem over scaled to others. My build is 4:1 so is also ‘over scaled’ To me there should be no scale limit period for this contest. 
 

what I was against is people potentially de motivating other builders.
 

bigger isn’t always guaranteed more votes, check out TC13.

but I agree we gotta build what we are motivated to build to have fun otherwise it ain’t fun whether it looks like it’s going to get votes or not.

Edited June 20, 2021 by MangaNOID

[weavil]

2 hours ago, Jundis said:

I see this rule just to prevent from extremely big builds, recreating an already big set. Voting criteria are:

• True to the original
• Quality of the build.
• Looks (shape, color scheme, etc).
• Functionality.
• Originality.

I feel like people didn't care about scale going in and will ignore in when voting. I feel "True to scale was meant to be as close to 1:1 as you could, a little over or a little under would be ok.

The bigger builds look great, but don't hate me for my two cents.

[SaperPL]

I agree that the rules are ambiguous. I would appreciate a clarification on the scale rule - whether this scale limit in the beginning of the sentence refers to the scale of your MOC vs original set's size or whether it's about your MOC's scale in general, meaning we don't limit overall sizes of entries, so we would allow or not models of specific size like it was with TC18 where they had to fit the transporter set.

My interpretation of this is that the first part states that there is no limit of overall scale of the set, so you can have a model that's 10 meters long, but the second part of the sentence indicates that it's okay as long as you are roughly keeping the original size of the set. So the fact that there is no limit on scale means you either can pick a small city model as a base for your entry, or a medium sized Technic set like I did or a supercar model like 8880 and these all have different scales versus real life vehicle/object, but the second part indicates that you are supposed to get as close to the original scale of the model as possible.

I remember that we had an explicitly stated example in the discussion thread to not have something like small lego system city sports car as a base model to be recreated at Technic supercar set scale. And this is really close to what @Jundis is doing with his approach 6352 Cargomaster Crane, with the exception that he is making it not into supercar scale, but into medium/large Technic model scale which is far off from the original scale.

I'm not doing this to hate on his build, but letting such exception go through will mean opening for people just last minute dropping their big scale trucks and cars they've been making for last few months as TC20 entries based on some small lego city sets, and it'll blow out whole competition because people will be voting on huge builds, because they look better and have more functions, but it ends up to be competition about who can sink more money into bricks and spend more time on building it.

5 hours ago, Jundis said:

All criteria are pointing not to just a remake (take out technic bricks and put in liftarms instead) but, as the name of the contest already shows, a recreation, which means a modern technic interpretation.

This is not true and ambiguous as hell - first of all, you can't remake it 1:1 with just swapping technic studded beams for liftarms because they don't have the same architecture - you have to change how the pieces ar arranged because they mesh together differently. But the statement "be true to original" may be interpreted as actually making a remake with approach like "how would lego design this model with their current elements and design style". but at the same time, modern style is making closed vehicle bodies with panels, but there are classic sets like car chassis that were meant to show the mechanics, so staying true to that is also against modernisation. Just making a remake is also okay by the rules here as you can do a good job and it'll be a balance between the modern build techniques and original set's style and nostalgia.

Anyway I don't want to fight on the latter which one is it, but I'd appreciate if there wasn't anything like "you've just made a remake of the original set with liftarms", because then we will spend days to figure out where's the boundary of what's okay and what's not.

As for the scale, like I said earlier, I just don't want people dropping their huge MOCs as anything that closely resembles that from small scale sets. True to the original and keeping scale as close as possible should be followed here and strictly handled by the admins.

[Jim]

I won’t be starting a new discussion about scale. Enough has been said at the beginning of the contest. But I like to emphasize that we have a “jury voting” part to avoid a “bigger is better scenario”.

[MangaNOID]

5 hours ago, Jim said:

But I like to emphasize that we have a “jury voting” part to avoid a “bigger is better scenario”.

Just to be pedantic and that I find it hard to read between Any lines, this sentence is still contrary to ‘there is no scale limit’. 

seems like the jury should not be voting on scale 
 

[Jim]

There is no scale limit to enter the contest, but the model should match the original as close as possible. I have clearly mentioned that bigger isn’t always better.

“True to the original” is what we call it.

[howitzer]

My interpretation of the spirit of the contest is that, you should stay as true to the original as possible in the sense that you shouldn't be making a much larger model with many added functions just because it's possible. Instead, you should reimagine the set as a Technic set, with the functions normally expected if such a set was made today into an official Technic set, and make it as close to the original scale as possible while keeping those functions around. With old 4-stud wide System vehicles, this means making a significantly larger model as it's just not possible to make a Technic model in such a scale but that's OK considering the source material. And yeah, even more important is to have fun with the contest. I certainly have had fun, and it appears that the same applies to many others, there are many great entries.

[Jim]

1 minute ago, howitzer said:

My interpretation of the spirit of the contest is that, you should stay as true to the original as possible in the sense that you shouldn't be making a much larger model with many added functions just because it's possible. 

We have winner!

[MangaNOID]

So anyone who chosen a systems set, so far as I can tell, may as well not participate.

It’s a shame as maybe the contest should have stipulated technic studded rebuild as that’s where the confines on the rules really take you.

It’s also a shame as I thought the sysltems re builds were very interesting.

It’s a shame that the scale is open yet you will have votes taken away for re scaling, kind of wasting some time for some builders.

Anyway it’s not my argument just my opinion 

good luck to all.

 

[brickless_kiwi]

59 minutes ago, howitzer said:

My interpretation of the spirit of the contest is that, you should stay as true to the original as possible in the sense that you shouldn't be making a much larger model with many added functions just because it's possible. Instead, you should reimagine the set as a Technic set, with the functions normally expected if such a set was made today into an official Technic set, and make it as close to the original scale as possible while keeping those functions around. With old 4-stud wide System vehicles, this means making a significantly larger model as it's just not possible to make a Technic model in such a scale but that's OK considering the source material. And yeah, even more important is to have fun with the contest. I certainly have had fun, and it appears that the same applies to many others, there are many great entries.

well that's kind of interesting.... Smokey Yunick  anyone...