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Bob De Quatre

[REVIEW] 40516 - Everyone is Awesome

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Back to a purely Lego perspective: gosh, those coloured hairstyles will be awesome in the BAM tower if that ever opens up again. 

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8 minutes ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Question: if someone had said "Anyone who thinks that having an abortion is murder is living in a dream world and is in a delusional fantasy", would you ban them? 

Question: Are different things different?

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On 5/23/2021 at 7:57 PM, John Cromwell said:

beliefs are those contained within the Bible

Problem is that this book was translated wrong over and over and over and now contains merely completely wrong statements.
Especially from Hebrew to Greek and to Roman it went awfully wrong.
Discovery has an interesting documentation about it.
These are just FACTS.

Where it goes wrong is that people only read those paragraphs where they can recognise their own opinions and at that point they start telling others how to behave to this.
In the mean time that wonderfull book has just as much contradictive statements that they absolutely don't want to know about.

Everyone has the right to be as (person) wants to be.
But why is a toys company making a set to highlight that?
It's not their goal after all.

6 minutes ago, Lego-fire said:

Back to a purely Lego perspective: gosh, those coloured hairstyles will be awesome in the BAM tower if that ever opens up again. 

Good vision :-)

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49 minutes ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Question: if someone had said "Anyone who thinks that having an abortion is murder is living in a dream world and is in a delusional fantasy", would you ban them? 

Is that the same as saying someone is delusional for asserting that they are a woman? Because if not its a false equivalence. 

46 minutes ago, Lego-fire said:

Back to a purely Lego perspective: gosh, those coloured hairstyles will be awesome in the BAM tower if that ever opens up again. 

I hope it leads to a spate of colourful hairstyles! I want all of these pieces in the gamut of colours. 

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16 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

 

I hope it leads to a spate of colourful hairstyles! I want all of these pieces in the gamut of colours. 

I can also think of lots of uses for the coloured heads! Some great columns come to mind. 

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Looking at set 40516 from a parts perspective, I see the bright green arches (part 6005) and my mind's eye pictures a model of Thunderbird 2 about the size of the rejected 10k Ideas project by Andrew Clark.  But there are only two of them in the set, so even with Bricklink it would be pretty expensive to get enough green arches for Thunderbird 2.

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13 minutes ago, icm said:

But there are only two of them in the set, so even with Bricklink it would be pretty expensive to get enough green arches for Thunderbird 2.

That said, this isn't a licensed set - it's possible you'll be able to pick some parts up via Bricks & Pieces!

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20 minutes ago, icm said:

Looking at set 40516 from a parts perspective, I see the bright green arches (part 6005) and my mind's eye pictures a model of Thunderbird 2 about the size of the rejected 10k Ideas project by Andrew Clark.  But there are only two of them in the set, so even with Bricklink it would be pretty expensive to get enough green arches for Thunderbird 2.

I feel like Bright Green might not be the best color for Thunderbird 2 anyway. Dark Green (which most FOLs and Bricklink just call Green), would probably be a more accurate shade, and is generally a more common color for other parts as well.

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Posted (edited)

I've got three Thunderbird 2 toys at home with different shades of green: Bright Green, Green, Olive Green. Depending on the color grading of a particular clip of the show, and whether you're watching the old show or the new one, Dark Green might work too. There's lots of wiggle room. But you're probably right that a lot more of the necessary parts for the ship are already available in Green than in Bright Green. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by icm

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Question: if someone had said "Anyone who thinks that having an abortion is murder is living in a dream world and is in a delusional fantasy", would you ban them? 

No, because no one even said that.

The member wasn't even banned after they said that, they were banned after calling other specific groups of people offensive terms, everyone is entitled to their own views, but when they are weaponised in hurtful ways it shouldn't be tolerated, which isn't teh purpose of EB.

I'm going to leave this thread permanently now, up until now I have only given opinions based on the actual set. It would be hypocritical of me to get embroiled into some debate on these issues. Thank you to @Bob De Quatre for the great objective review.

Edited by Stuartn

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6 hours ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

Everyone has the right to be as (person) wants to be.
But why is a toys company making a set to highlight that?
It's not their goal after all.

Lego is an educational toy at heart. Beyond the basics of building, Lego teaches about the world and society in general. Friends for instance heavily revolves around the culture, diversity and individuality of characters in those sets. City focuses quite a bit on careers and industry. We have plenty of historically inspired Lego sets too, featuring real life individuals from Abraham Lincoln to Sally Ride. Lego is often an outlet to not only expand creativity and imagination but also knowledge.

So looking at the brand as a whole, it makes sense that Lego would want to continue diversifying and celebrating more cultures and individuals, it's what they've been doing for decades, so I don't imagine they're going to stop anytime soon.

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On 5/23/2021 at 9:39 PM, Alexandrina said:

there's an implication that one of the women in PoBB is trans iirc

Sounds like interesting information, I wish to learn further.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jack Sassy said:

Sounds like interesting information, I wish to learn further.

The Robin Loot minifig in the Barracuda Bay is described as "Former gunner of the Cross Bone Clipper" , which means formerly one of those 2 characters.

It's up to imagination if it's just a clothes change or more.

idea070.png

Set https://brickset.com/sets/6250-1/Cross-Bone-Clipper

pi049.pngpi057.png

Edited by TeriXeri

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At first I understood and somewhat agreed with the perspective of this set being a cash grab like some people have claimed but not anymore. After reading comments here and especially comments elsewhere it's clear that a set like this is still a risk and therefore still necessary. If LEGO created a set to simply cash in on pride and make as much money as possible this set would've just been the standard pride flag instead of the progress redesign. They definitely would've made more sales, especially in places like the UK, not that the set really needs more sales. If the set being a nice display piece doesn't make it successful the monofigures definitely will.  

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1 hour ago, TeriXeri said:

The Robin Loot minifig in the Barracuda Bay is described as "Former gunner of the Cross Bone Clipper" , which means formerly one of those 2 characters.

It's up to imagination if it's just a clothes change or more.

idea070.png

Set https://brickset.com/sets/6250-1/Cross-Bone-Clipper

pi049.pngpi057.png

I always thought that she was just a gentle nod to Classic Forestmen. This version seems a bit more interesting and gives her some background.

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1 hour ago, TeriXeri said:

The Robin Loot minifig in the Barracuda Bay is described as "Former gunner of the Cross Bone Clipper" , which means formerly one of those 2 characters.

It's up to imagination if it's just a clothes change or more.

More than that, since Captain Redbeard is in both the Black Seas Barracuda and the Cross Bone Clipper, there's a good reason to think that the woman in red on the Cross Bone Clipper is none other than Lady Anchor, who I believe is canonically the Captain's daughter and who is based off the minifigure in the Black Seas Barracuda that is identical to the Clipper except for differently coloured legs/bandana. Given that every minifigure in the Barracuda has an equivalent in PoBB (the identical minifigures are condensed down) and both those minifigures and Tattooga (based off minifigure pi012 I believe) maintain continuity in the form of their torso clothing, it seems a fair assumption that Robin Loot is meant to be the figure from the Cross Bone Clipper that wears the same colour waistcoat and undershirt, and also wears a brown tricorne.

Since that minifigure is male-presenting, and Robin Loot is female-presenting, there are two possibilities. Option 1) is that she is trans; option 2) is that she disguised her gender á la Anne Bonny during her Cross Bone Clipper days, but has subsequently stopped hiding. My personal opinion is that the latter is unlikely because of the presence of Lady Anchor on the Clipper - so there's definitely no prohibition of women in the crew.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Alexandrina said:

Since that minifigure is male-presenting, and Robin Loot is female-presenting, there are two possibilities. Option 1) is that she is trans; option 2) is that she disguised her gender á la Anne Bonny during her Cross Bone Clipper days, but has subsequently stopped hiding. My personal opinion is that the latter is unlikely because of the presence of Lady Anchor on the Clipper - so there's definitely no prohibition of women in the crew.

True, it very much makes sense for Lady Anchor to appear 5 times total (3 ships + 1 minifigure set + Rock Island Refuge) , and then to appear in Barracuda Bay again alongside Redbeard for a 6th time. (not counting re-release of the old Barracuda)

And then the obvious same clothes of Robin Loot (brown hat, white arms, green shirt), which in this combination, only appears once in Classic Pirates on the Cross Bone Clipper, makes option 1 much more likely indeed.

(mods can move this Pirate Discussion to the other thread instead of the Review thread if they wish, as I know this discussion isn't directly about 40516 review right now)

Edited by TeriXeri
updated wording

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We all know they just gender-bent a character to have more female minifigures

I mean c'mon....

 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Robert8 said:

We all know they just gender-bent a character to have more female minifigures

I mean c'mon....

 

Could be, I don't think anything of it is a 100% fact until an official statement.

I personally think the way LEGO has done it, is subtle enough to leave multiple options open.

Edited by TeriXeri

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6 minutes ago, Robert8 said:

We all know they just gender-bent a character to have more female minifigures

I mean c'mon....

 

This I don’t get. Maybe you don’t need to look very carefully to see representation, but others do. Why not just let that be rather than try and explain it away? 

4 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:I personally think the way LEGO has done it, is subtle enough to leave multiple options open.

Zigackly 

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On 5/23/2021 at 11:19 PM, Clone OPatra said:

Having your opinions is one thing, but directly and aggressively insulting other members is something we don't tolerate on Eurobricks. You called for us to ban you yourself; I think it's time.

Thank you for intervening. :thumbup: I know it can't be easy to moderate a site like Eurobricks that has users from so many different backgrounds, but you've done a good job cracking down on overt hostility and making sure that discussions like this can continue and remain civil and welcoming, even when some people seem determined to on turn the proverbial "marketplace of ideas" into a war zone.

On 5/24/2021 at 7:51 AM, timemail said:

I would like to see more representation along this line in the sets however would be concerned it would cause more uproar, especially if it was in sets aimed more at kids like City or Friends. I do wonder whether the 18+ Lego exclusive is simply to reduce the appearance that the set is aimed at kids, as it won't be in toy stores or similar - granted it is over the internet (especially due to the "controversy" around it). Fingers crossed that one set will make it easier to release sets with LGBTQIA+ representation in the future, especially if they can be released with more reach. Hopefully more sets will lead to greater acceptance (or at least less resistance).

Honestly, I feel like this set's existence is a pretty strong sign that LEGO is no longer really concerned about that sort of "uproar", and are fully committed to standing up against any hate or criticisms they might receive for it. Plus, we live in a world where even major media entities like Cartoon Network, Disney Channel, Nickelodeon, Netflix, and Dreamworks have been taking similar courageous steps towards better LGBTQ+ representation, even in unambiguously kid-targeted series. To a certain extent, I think that can be taken as evidence that the opposition to this sort of positive, kid-friendly representation has become much smaller and weaker than the remaining opponents of this stuff would like to admit.

That said, the lack of major strides like this in Disney or Dreamworks films shows that we still have a long way to go before kid-friendly portrayals of LGBTQ+ identities are normalized or accepted across all industries. It's hard to know where the toy industry really falls along that spectrum, or how willing LEGO is to go above and beyond the norms of that industry in their approach to LGBTQ+ representation. Only time will tell, I suppose.

On 5/24/2021 at 2:27 PM, Blondie-Wan said:

Indeed, I’ve been wondering whether this could be the first in a series of Pride-themed seasonal sets. They do seasonally-appropriate sets all year round, including the Winter Village line, the Advent Calendars, the occasional Monsters-themed thing around Halloween, various GWPs for everything from Easter to Halloween, etc.; why not make Pride Month a recurring LEGO “theme”?

It certainly wouldn't be a huge imposition for them to do that sort of thing, since many of their existing seasonal items like vignettes, keychains, BrickHeadz, etc. tend to be impulse-priced items with relatively low production costs, relatively limited availability (mostly just online, in LEGO brand stores, or in other specialty stores), and relatively short shelf life. Plus, the schedule for a lot of those types of seasonal sets currently has a conspicuous gap between Spring/Easter related sets and Fall/Halloween related ones — Pride-related sets in the summer would fill that gap very nicely!

On 5/24/2021 at 3:07 PM, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Question: if someone had said "Anyone who thinks that having an abortion is murder is living in a dream world and is in a delusional fantasy", would you ban them? 

Honestly, why would it even matter? I can't think of much reason to bring up the topic of abortion on a site like Eurobricks in the first place, particularly in a topic like this one. So far, the only reason it HAS come up in this topic is because of bad-faith efforts to try and conflate LGBTQ+ acceptance with entirely unrelated political debates. Which is just as ridiculous as bringing up your opinions on immigration policy in a topic about LEGO windmills.

In other words, this isn't the "gotcha" you think it is. The fact that Eurobricks staff are willing to ban people who harass other users based on their gender and sexuality doesn't mean they're somehow obligated to encourage discussion of every political issue, let alone take sides on those issues.

6 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

Since that minifigure is male-presenting, and Robin Loot is female-presenting, there are two possibilities. Option 1) is that she is trans; option 2) is that she disguised her gender á la Anne Bonny during her Cross Bone Clipper days, but has subsequently stopped hiding. My personal opinion is that the latter is unlikely because of the presence of Lady Anchor on the Clipper - so there's definitely no prohibition of women in the crew.

Yeah, there are all sorts of different in-universe interpretations, especially in light of the varied and complex attitudes towards gender presentation and gender norms we know of among real-life pirate crews. "Outlaw" subcultures in general can deviate pretty wildly from the dominant culture of their time, even if they're still informed by the dominant culture's prevailing norms on various levels.

That said, I was told by the designer, Samuel Johnson, that there wasn't really any specific intended interpretation, and that it was really just for that they wanted more than one female pirate character with different outfits, so they decided to give one of them a torso a torso from a male pirate character from the classic sets, instead of just coming up with an entirely new character design from scratch without any "classic" precedent. So the most "official" explanation of Robin Loot's design is just as a minor "retcon" between two different generations of LEGO Pirates sets, like @Robert8 suggested in his post above.

For my part, I prefer to imagine Robin as a trans woman, since that helps me relate to her on a more personal level. But in the grand scheme of things, there isn't really any right or wrong way to reconcile those differences between the Cross Bone Clipper set's cast of characters and the bios from from the Barracuda Bay instruction manual, and the designers I've spoken with have said they're designers are perfectly happy for fans to interpret those characters however they please.

Heck, for those who'd prefer not to interpret the characters in either of those sets as anything other than the gender they appear to be, but DO want the two sets to share a consistent continuity, you can even just assume that the male crew member from the Cross Bone Clipper set died or jumped ship at some point, and the female crew member (who previously wore an outfit more like Lady Anne's) decided she didn't want such a fancy hat and vest to go to waste. :tongue:

In any case, I do hope we see more intentional trans representation in the future. Even if it's a character who doesn't have anything obviously identifying them as trans in their design, and is only identified as trans in supporting media or with a trans flag or related symbol appearing in another part of a set they appear in.

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9 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

For my part, I prefer to imagine Robin as a trans woman, since that helps me relate to her on a more personal level. But in the grand scheme of things, there isn't really any right or wrong way to reconcile those differences between the Cross Bone Clipper set's cast of characters and the bios from from the Barracuda Bay instruction manual

And that's at the core of what makes Lego so great, imo. Like you I personally see Robin as trans, but it's perfectly okay for any other viewpoint too. 

That said, I would like to see a few explicitly canonically trans characters in future sets, and I fully expect that to happen in time - especially as more and more in house minifigures are given names and backgrounds. 40516 is imo the heralding of an era of greater diversity in the Legoverse, which I cannot wait for. 

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1 hour ago, Alexandrina said:

And that's at the core of what makes Lego so great, imo. Like you I personally see Robin as trans, but it's perfectly okay for any other viewpoint too.  

That said, I would like to see a few explicitly canonically trans characters in future sets, and I fully expect that to happen in time - especially as more and more in house minifigures are given names and backgrounds. 40516 is imo the heralding of an era of greater diversity in the Legoverse, which I cannot wait for. 

Even in themes that don't tend to assign detailed names or identities to their characters, there are many ways to communicate that a character is trans! Like, a lot of skateboarders and guitarists in themes like City or the Collectable Minifigures have skateboards or guitars with uniquely printed or stickered graphics. It wouldn't be difficult at all to incorporate features like stripes in the colors of the trans pride flag, or the even less ambiguous ⚧ symbol.

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1 hour ago, Aanchir said:

That said, the lack of major strides like this in Disney or Dreamworks films shows that we still have a long way to go before kid-friendly portrayals of LGBTQ+ identities are normalized or accepted across all industries.

Pixar are casting for a young (child) trans actress for an upcoming film. No mention of how prominent that character will be though, and unless the film becomes a series I wouldn't expect it to get a Lego set either.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, timemail said:

Pixar are casting for a young (child) trans actress for an upcoming film. No mention of how prominent that character will be though, and unless the film becomes a series I wouldn't expect it to get a Lego set either. 

Yeah, I'd heard this, and I will definitely be watching attentively for news on whatever results from that casting. But we're definitely not seeing this sort of progress happening as widely or at the same pace in film as in other media formats like TV, comics, or video games. Ultimately, Disney and Pixar's efforts so far do not lend me a great deal of confidence, but I hope they manage to surpass my expectations.

Edited by Aanchir

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