Heroica: Glory Amongst The Stars - Mission Masters Lounge

[Classic_Spaceman]

2 hours ago, Endgame said:

Is the creature in the bottom right corner of the picture actually a Progg, or did you just reuse their 1.0 design for an unrelated animal? 
 

[Endgame]

10 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

Is the creature in the bottom right corner of the picture actually a Progg, or did you just reuse their 1.0 design for an unrelated animal? 
 

What's a Progg?

(Not accidental. All things in due time. )

[Waterbrick Down]

Quest 5 was... interesting. I'm going to start off with an apology as I felt the quest definitely began to drag toward the midway point and part of that is on me by not providing engaging enough characters/scenarios to keep folks excited. After a few stints in Heroica 1.0 and now this mission, I think I can safely say that sandbox exploration missions/quests are not my style. The original concept was to mimic something similar to Quest 1 from Heroica 1.0, i.e. provide a few random encounter areas that the players could clear with a small overarching story connecting everything. While that might have worked well back in the early days of Heroica 1.0 when activity was super high, these days with longer stretches between posts, a mission of primarily combat gets stretched out to an almost unbearable amount. Combine that with the fact that Quest 1 from the original Heroica had varied environments and monsters, looking back the encounters of Mission 5 were a little too similar and the landscapes too bland to provide differentiation. That all being said, a big thanks to all the players for sticking through it and putting all the pieces of the puzzle together.

The idea behind the drake corpse came from a short documentary on whale falls and an episode from a fantasy anime and while it took a while for the mystery to unravel I'm happy enough with the clues that the party at least decided to interact with. To that end, I was really surprised at the lack of overall investigative type rolls from the heroes to try and determine more about their surroundings. This might have been due to the limited scenery builds, but I'm not sure if this was a case of the Party simply didn't know what to look for or just inactivity. Either way I can see how the narrative thread felt to be slipping at times, which is why Sigrún would step in at times to give commentary. On the note of Sigrún, while some of her mannerisms came through, I'd definitely like more time to expand upon her in the future. She felt a little underdeveloped and more a voice of the Mission Master rather than her own character at times. On to each section of the mission:

Vindkoss:
I had prepared for more interaction with the Tavern customers, but as you were mostly down to business they never really got featured. The fight outside with the Hawks was an interesting learning experience on multiple fast enemies with little health. It went about as expected and was on the easier end of difficulty. The interactions with the guides was not quite what I had anticipated. I should have more clearly laid out the pros and cons of each guide in mechanical terms instead of relying upon the bolded descriptions to impart that knowledge. I was honestly surprised the group went with Sigrún as I thought the lowest cost guide would have been the party's preference in order to maximize their credits.

Scjalftosten Pass:
The scenario with the Glacier Mongers went just as anticipated and I really liked the personalities that showed up between Enson, Polaris, and some of the other group with the differences in risk assessment and willingness to listen to Sigrún. The battle was a little more difficult this time around, but Sigrún's ability kept it from becoming too overwhelming. I was a little baffled that after dissecting the Hawks, the party didn't do any further investigation of the Mongers. If they had they would have found more clues pointing to the Rime Drake, but ah well.

Lake Hreinsa:
It's always a toss-up on how puzzles will go over with certain players and whether it will be either too difficult or too immersion breaking. Thankfully this one seemed to strike the balance alright and most everyone got the solution fairly easily. The fight on the other hand wasn't received as generously. I'll still maintain that the fight was winnable from the onset, but I understand the frustration. I'm not going to hash-out the statistics of the battle again, but I'm glad to see the group triumphed in the end upon their return. It did however provide for an interesting scene of the players coming up with outside the box solutions between equipment and foraging for poisons which was really neat to see.

Skelfing Wastes:
The first interaction with Krystal Ice. The dynamic between the Cricet and the mining company was something I always wanted to dig into as I think it's one of those unique sci-fi type scenarios that we would never have encountered in Heroica 1.0. It was cool to see how the party handled the impasse between the two parties and I've got to give credit to Enson (Duvors) for some smart negotiating to end the conflict in a non-violent outcome.

Guffa Flats:
I'm sort of glad the party decided to go here last as finding the Drake early would have been a bit anti-climatic. Regardless things finally started heating up between the stealthing around Krystal territory and finally discovering the Drake. The final fight I felt hit the difficulty balance pretty well for a "boss battle" and it was cool to see how the players dealt with the combined threats that they had learned to fight in earlier scenarios. I was also interested to see how the heroes would deal with the corpse and disposal was always a possibility, albeit one that could potentially draw attention to themselves. All in all, a fitting conclusion/climax to the mission in my mind.

So a lot of running around by the characters, but you all managed to stay on task and piece everything together in the end. Not a lot of missing content that was skipped by the players, which is always nice as a MM. If I ran it again, I might try more varied environments and some sort of deadline to keep the quest moving at a better pace, but all together, you all worked well with what you were presented and I'm glad to have started expanding this area of the galaxy.

More to say about players in a follow-up post...

[Waterbrick Down]

Player Feedback

Enson (Duvors): It really was a pleasure watching Enson develop as a character on this mission. Even though a fair number of situations ended in combat, I like that he continually sought out a peaceful solution whenever he could. His bits with Polaris and Sigrun were really good. He's one of those reluctant leader type characters and I really like that about him. I think you've got a really firm grasp on the character and the direction you want to take him, so I don't have a lot of criticisms. As a player, I'm sorry a lot of the conditional actions came down to you. I know most players don't go in thinking they'll need to do a whole lot to keep a party moving, but I'm grateful you stepped up. 

Polaris (samurai-turtle): Great having you back, I think you're really starting to find your feet with your character. I'd lay even more into the war veteran/survivalist aspect, it's definitely something I believe you can play with more and explore. You've got a better balance this mission with your interactions with MILES. He wasn't too forward or too much in the background. If anything I'd maybe allow MILES to interact more with other characters and flesh out a little more of his personality. Companion characters can be tricky to pull off well, but MILES is integrated enough into Polaris's character that I think you can manage it. It was good to see you offering unique solutions to problems and alternate theories. When a party becomes so reliant on one character, it can easily devolve into characters going on auto-pilot. By having Polaris offer a different take on things in a few instances, it helped keep things fresh and remind folks that there are other ways of considering a given problem. Nicely done. 

Aysu (Peppermint_M): I so want to know more about Aysu's backstory, but I haven't found the right scenarios to draw it out of her. She seems like she has a ton of potential, with her scrapper background and her outlook on life as more of a sniper character, I just wish more of that came through. As a character she really is a power-house in the damage department and I'm sure as she levels up that'll become even more apparent. You really started using the skill system well, so I'm glad to see more players taking advantage of that as it really is the gem of the new system offering as much freedom as the player's imagination can come up with. I definitely want to take her on another mission at some point, just got to find one that's more in her character's interests. 

Ronin (Yzalirk): I know real life has had you swamped, sorry you couldn't be part of the mission more as I believe Ronin has some cool possibilities. They reminded me of Sylph from Heroica 1.0 a little which was always a really interesting mysterious vibe. You've got the character set up really well to do a good amount of damage, but is currently more of a glass-cannon (you spent a lot of time up and down). I'm sure the new weapon will help mitigate some of that and give them options for dashing in and out of melee range when appropriate. This being the character's first mission, it'll be fun to see where they end up and how you roleplay them. The little I saw showed promise, just need an opportunity where you have more time. Good to have you along though and look forward to what you bring. 

Decker (Endgame): Decker to me reads a lot like Aysu, a lot of neat potential, it just didn't seem like the right mission to help draw it out. He's one of the tankier characters and also plays a little of the comic relief type which we desperately need more of. His bits about his gun are always good, but I wish it could be more expanded upon as the unprepared bumbling hero would be really fun to read. Not sure if that's the direction you're aiming for, but it comes across naturally. You did well in the fights helping keep the party grounded and he always seemed to be a reasonable voice, albeit sometimes a little quiet. As another first timer, it's cool to see players learning the new system and the ways to take advantage of some of the mechanics. I'm sort of sad he didn't get to keep the boomerang, but am glad he finally invested in his own short range weapon, even if it did take him multiple rounds before he hit anything with the last one. I'll be glad to watch as Decker progresses and the niche he carves out for himself.

[samurai-turtle]

16 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

Polaris (samurai-turtle): Great having you back, I think you're really starting to find your feet with your character. I'd lay even more into the war veteran/survivalist aspect, it's definitely something I believe you can play with more and explore. You've got a better balance this mission with your interactions with MILES. He wasn't too forward or too much in the background. If anything I'd maybe allow MILES to interact more with other characters and flesh out a little more of his personality. Companion characters can be tricky to pull off well, but MILES is integrated enough into Polaris's character that I think you can manage it. It was good to see you offering unique solutions to problems and alternate theories. When a party becomes so reliant on one character, it can easily devolve into characters going on auto-pilot. By having Polaris offer a different take on things in a few instances, it helped keep things fresh and remind folks that there are other ways of considering a given problem. Nicely done. 

Just a few points: the war veteran / survivalist aspect she has only been in the "army" for only like a year and then the landmine happen to her. I am starting to think maybe PTSD might develop for her at some point or their is a trigger for the PTSD. So are you a veteran after only one year? And the second year she gets assigned to Heroics (or now). You are probably right about MILES needing to interact more with other "things". But how much of a personality does a mono tone character have? Hopefully I can show more shenanigans with MILES in what ever "quest" he might have. 

Something about the other characters: 

Enson - now he seems more like the war veteran / survivor WaterBrick Down mention but now just tired of it. 

Aysu - I get the feeling Peppermint_M might not have a background set for her (as of now). 

Ronin - We definitely need to see him on another mission, to get any idea of who he might of been. I know part of the reason for the lack of activity is because Yzalirk wasn't feeling well (I know at on point I wasn't feeling well myself as I already told WaterBrick Down). 

Decker - He is one of those smart @$$ characters that brought a knife to a gun fight type and wishing he didn't at the time. 

For the mission it definitely did feel like it became a chore at times. And I am not sure it was the MM, me or the other players that made it that way. (And I don't feel like pointing fingers at anyone here). 

[Peppermint_M]

Aysu has a background, but she is a lot more cheerful in her outlook in life and what it brings. (Hence the Pink'n'sparkles drinks) I wanted someone different to Tesni.

Tesni was a great character to play in 1.0, a damaged background coupled quickly with a dark elemental weapon (with a lot of power) let me really dig my teeth into ramping her up. If I had not been ill when I was reaching a real peak of her story (And, to be perfectly honest, really miffed to have missed the final Wren/Zoot Quest as a chance to get some character in)  then not able to engage until the real last days of the game, I would have taken her some interesting places. (Maybe I will create an ending for her).

Aysu is a very in the moment sort of girl,  a sunny attitude and a steady hand with a gun. I have not reached the right circumstances to naturally tell some story for her. Getting to be a crack shot with a lot of power is great for the game, but I need some tighter spots for her to free something deeper. (I really admire how Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex shared The Major's backstory, if anyone else has seen that) 

It was an enjoyable quest for me. The tundra did make for difficult parsing of the grid at times, but I liked the mix (even if I was still trying to figure out the puzzle solution well after it was solved!)  I tried to play into the character I have and the fact she had already been "led" by Enson on a successful mission. But I can see butting heads in future because Aysu does think the best diplomacy is superior firearms. It was pretty cool to be dropping enemies with a few shots. 

I am still trying to get the measure of characters for Aysu to interact accordingly, it is only her second quest. Everyone put their characters across well and I am getting more used to the system of the game.

The NPCs were good, Sigrun was a helpful guide and even if it did not come through, Aysu does like having an experienced adult around for her (She's only just left Mama and Papa after all). 

All in all, I had a good time and did not feel it was a drag. Thanks 

[Waterbrick Down]

27 minutes ago, samurai-turtle said:

Just a few points: the war veteran / survivalist aspect she has only been in the "army" for only like a year and then the landmine happen to her. I am starting to think maybe PTSD might develop for her at some point or their is a trigger for the PTSD. So are you a veteran after only one year? And the second year she gets assigned to Heroics (or now). You are probably right about MILES needing to interact more with other "things". But how much of a personality does a mono tone character have? Hopefully I can show more shenanigans with MILES in what ever "quest" he might have. 

MILES is the straight man of the duo, even if Polaris is pretty even keeled. I think if you play that up, you'll have a dynamic relationship going. I'd say she may actually have the most "military" experience out of most of the character which is what sets her apart. You're free to dive into that if you want, but considering it's the reason she needs MILES it seems to be a natural part of her background and mentality.

29 minutes ago, samurai-turtle said:

For the mission it definitely did feel like it became a chore at times. And I am not sure it was the MM, me or the other players that made it that way. (And I don't feel like pointing fingers at anyone here). 

Probably a combination of things. Life is definitely more busy right now on my end with the twins being more active than sleepy, so that cuts into my time and I know we had a few players with personal issues come up (whether crazy work schedules, sickness, or other family matters). Some missions things just don't line up as you would have hoped. Plus if the mission isn't personally engaging for your character, i.e. it doesn't feel like they have a stake in what happens or if there's no bonding between NPC or PC to a degree it can make it difficult to find the motivation to keep posting.

4 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

Aysu has a background, but she is a lot more cheerful in her outlook in life and what it brings. (Hence the Pink'n'sparkles drinks) I wanted someone different to Tesni.

Tesni was a great character to play in 1.0, a damaged background coupled quickly with a dark elemental weapon (with a lot of power) let me really dig my teeth into ramping her up. If I had not been ill when I was reaching a real peak of her story (And, to be perfectly honest, really miffed to have missed the final Wren/Zoot Quest as a chance to get some character in)  then not able to engage until the real last days of the game, I would have taken her some interesting places. (Maybe I will create an ending for her).

Aysu is a very in the moment sort of girl,  a sunny attitude and a steady hand with a gun. I have not reached the right circumstances to naturally tell some story for her. Getting to be a crack shot with a lot of power is great for the game, but I need some tighter spots for her to free something deeper. (I really admire how Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex shared The Major's backstory, if anyone else has seen that) 

It was an enjoyable quest for me. The tundra did make for difficult parsing of the grid at times, but I liked the mix (even if I was still trying to figure out the puzzle solution well after it was solved!)  I tried to play into the character I have and the fact she had already been "led" by Enson on a successful mission. But I can see butting heads in future because Aysu does think the best diplomacy is superior firearms. It was pretty cool to be dropping enemies with a few shots. 

I am still trying to get the measure of characters for Aysu to interact accordingly, it is only her second quest. Everyone put their characters across well and I am getting more used to the system of the game.

The NPCs were good, Sigrun was a helpful guide and even if it did not come through, Aysu does like having an experienced adult around for her (She's only just left Mama and Papa after all). 

All in all, I had a good time and did not feel it was a drag. Thanks 

I can totally relate to wanting something different and I think Aysu is certainly coming into her own in that regard. You're right about needing the right scenario to draw out personal character development and admittedly there weren't a lot of opportunities for that in this mission. Glad you still had fun though and enjoyed Sigrun, my aim is always to provide at least memorable NPC's if possible.

[Endgame]

I liked Mission 5 a lot, personally! Thanks a ton for hosting, WBD.

Any sort of dragging that occurred in the middle in regards to my activity had more to do with a spike in work activity on my end than the quality of the quest, honestly, so I wouldn't worry there. I'll rattle off a quick list of thoughts on how things went:

• The guide choice was pretty big in retrospect. Chatting the each of them up was pretty fun, and I liked Sigrun as a character a lot - I suppose my only point of advice would be to give a drop more info on what the individual impacts would be?
• In retrospect, not trusting Sigrun that the rigged up corpse was a trap, after we paid her for her intuition and combat evasion skills, was pretty silly on our end.
• The puzzle was fun! WBD puzzles always fit great and feel fitting contextually. Where we were on the lakeshore got kind of ambiguous, but I wanted to play Decker as a touch dim/scattered, so it gave me a chance to flex that part of his character.
• There was really no villain, and I suppose there didn't need to be. Kristal Ice is as close as we ever got and that felt fitting for the kind of quest it was.
• The Rime Drake twist was pretty good. I find it ironic that we had two quests; one in the desert, one in the tundra; one has the big twist that the expected boss was dead the whole time, the other had the big twist that the boss never really died.
• From a game perspective, I just don't think that high skill enemies "feel" very good. If it was a much higher HP enemy with low skill instead, the party at least gets the pressure valve of being able to do consistent damage. I think your intent was to make the party leverage rally/defend actions, which makes sense, I think we just got hit hard fast, and that threw us off our game.
• The balance also felt wonky because it felt like we had some really poor rolls at times, and its hard to balance around rotten luck. This was felt in the gator rematch more than anything.
• The team dynamic felt pretty good! Enson emerged as the clear leader, so I wanted Decker to settle into a more team-player/hustle kind of role.
• I'm still definitely trying to figure Decker out. My intent was to have him be basically a blob of clay to be molded by in-Mission events; minimal backstory with a few fixed character traits. He's a collaborator, he's generally good-hearted, he's a bit of a hot head and he's far from the sharpest tool in the box.
• I think not investing in any of the "contextual" proficiencies, like Insight, hurt Decker on this mission. He couldn't really do stuff besides fight, and I purposefully gimped him in combat for the sake of a gag, so Decker ended up hobbled entirely by my own design. Oops.
• I wish the investment of character points mid-Mission was possible. I think that learning new spells and new proficiencies may be better as a between Mission deal, but boosting base stats would be appropriate. With a lot of the loot backloaded in this Mission, it didn't really feel like Decker was getting stronger.
• The Rime Drake and the scale you portrayed with it was stunning.

 

That's all I got for now! Thanks again, and I hope to be able to hop on the next WBD mission.

[Waterbrick Down]

4 hours ago, Endgame said:

 

• The guide choice was pretty big in retrospect. Chatting the each of them up was pretty fun, and I liked Sigrun as a character a lot - I suppose my only point of advice would be to give a drop more info on what the individual impacts would be?

Yeah in hindsight, that would have made things a whole lot clearer.

4 hours ago, Endgame said:

 

• From a game perspective, I just don't think that high skill enemies "feel" very good. If it was a much higher HP enemy with low skill instead, the party at least gets the pressure valve of being able to do consistent damage. I think your intent was to make the party leverage rally/defend actions, which makes sense, I think we just got hit hard fast, and that threw us off our game.
• The balance also felt wonky because it felt like we had some really poor rolls at times, and its hard to balance around rotten luck. This was felt in the gator rematch more than anything.

This mission was definitely a proving ground for certain types of battles and I think I've got more to go on for future combats. The last fight was just about what I wanted balance wise. I can see your point though about swing and I think it'll be that way during these early battles when folks can sometimes do as much Skill as they have Vitality. Once Vitality starts getting higher than Skill, I think it'll balance out more. I do see your point though about the feeling of consistent damage.

4 hours ago, Endgame said:

 

• I think not investing in any of the "contextual" proficiencies, like Insight, hurt Decker on this mission. He couldn't really do stuff besides fight, and I purposefully gimped him in combat for the sake of a gag, so Decker ended up hobbled entirely by my own design. Oops.

I think as the game evolves more folks will see the value in those proficiencies. Not that players can't make those types of checks without it, but I feel the weapon/magic/physical skill proficiencies are simply easier to grasp and come up with ideas for.

4 hours ago, Endgame said:

 

• I wish the investment of character points mid-Mission was possible. I think that learning new spells and new proficiencies may be better as a between Mission deal, but boosting base stats would be appropriate. With a lot of the loot backloaded in this Mission, it didn't really feel like Decker was getting stronger.

This is an interesting point and one I haven't given a whole lot of thought about yet. I can certainly see what you mean especially on longer missions it can feel like your character isn't progressing. Because of the redistribution of points rule, I can see everyone investing their points into things like vitality and skill as the mission progresses and then swapping those back into proficiencies after the mission which would seem a little wonky to me. Perhaps allow character progression of attributes and existing proficiencies whenever there are points to spend in a mission, but you can only reassign points or add new skills between missions?

[Zepher]

As with all quests I'm not on, I paid some attention to Quest 5 with the intention of, one day, going back and reading it! Maybe that's how I'll spend a bit of my time over the Holiday break. But overall I thought it seemed fun, though, WBD, I'm kind of with you - the open world quests never quite do it for me. I feel that a "move around and slay things" style quest is just hard to dig my teeth into - there's inherently not a lot of character growth that can happen. That being said, it seemed well done, just not my favorite style. The sets, as always, looked fantastic, and I really loved the big dead drake at the end. And @Peppermint_M, I think you raise an interesting point, one that Endgame echoes here. Characters are going to take a while to blossom, both as we discover who they are, and as they reveal themselves. We kind of need quests that engage them to reveal their motivations - otherwise, they're just mercenaries! Which is totally cool! I think that's the legacy Sandy left us with the game system - sometimes, we just want money and glory, until eventually it becomes personal as the world gets built out.

[Waterbrick Down]

12 hours ago, Zepher said:

As with all quests I'm not on, I paid some attention to Quest 5 with the intention of, one day, going back and reading it! Maybe that's how I'll spend a bit of my time over the Holiday break. But overall I thought it seemed fun, though, WBD, I'm kind of with you - the open world quests never quite do it for me. I feel that a "move around and slay things" style quest is just hard to dig my teeth into - there's inherently not a lot of character growth that can happen. That being said, it seemed well done, just not my favorite style. The sets, as always, looked fantastic, and I really loved the big dead drake at the end. And @Peppermint_M, I think you raise an interesting point, one that Endgame echoes here. Characters are going to take a while to blossom, both as we discover who they are, and as they reveal themselves. We kind of need quests that engage them to reveal their motivations - otherwise, they're just mercenaries! Which is totally cool! I think that's the legacy Sandy left us with the game system - sometimes, we just want money and glory, until eventually it becomes personal as the world gets built out.

Totally agree, I think Mission 5 could have functioned as some sort of Fields quest, or a much shorter mission if it kept things moving quickly (ala Quest 1 of Heroica 1.0), but 3 months of just monster hunting is a bit too much I think for at least my taste.

[Yzalirk]

For a moment I completely forgot this is where we leave mission feedback.

First off, I would like to apologize to everyone that I was rather inactive for a good chunk of Mission #5.  Me being sick for two weeks is not a good excuse for leaving everyone to hang out and dry like that.  Same with a lot of real life hiccups.  I should have been more active and again, I want to apologize for that.

Overall, I really enjoyed this Mission!  For it being my first official Mission for Heroica 2.0, it felt right for a lack of better words.  The new Sci-Fi / Fantasy setting just feels good and creates for a lot of fun possibilities down the line.  The Battlegrid System worked super well and was very easy to understand.  Though with the last fight admittedly it was a bit tough to read the grid but that was not that big of an issue for me.  I also have to say that the combat was a lot more brutal than Heroica 1.0 but that may be because of how I had my character specced out as of Mission #5.

The Mission itself was a blast!  The setting was great and I really hope to see what happens between the Cricet and the Krystal Ice Mining Company in the future.  I can seea lot of future possibilities for this planet in the future.  Same with the Ice Mongers.  Who are they?  They were definitely a curiosity during this Mission for me.  I hope in the future they can be fleshed out a bit more.  They seem like the native intelligent species that have not advanced technologically and stayed more primitive.

As I said above, I really enjoyed the combat.  Even when I got my megablocks kicked a lot.
The Giant Polar Gator fight was definitely the highlight of the Mission in my opinion.  We may have failed the first time but triumphed the second time.  That was badass.  Although I wanted to poison the beast I think Enson's idea on trying to hogtie it worked despite it not working haha.  I was so disappointed that we did not actually get to tie it up.  I wonder how differently it would have went had we done so.

The one puzzle in the game was good too.  Very interesting idea.  I did not think it was too hard to comprehend the rules of traversing the ice but I did sit there for a hot minute trying to figure it out.

The NPCs were nice too.  Maybe this is because I became inactive at a point but a few of them became forgettable except for Sigrun and Mervin.  I forget the names of the Cricet and Krystal Ice employees even though I did like that interaction.  I knew the Cricet were guilty too.

As for the other Heroes, I do not think we could have had a more interesting cast of characters for this Mission.  I enjoyed everyones company on this Mission.  I want to get to know more about everyone.  Their background history, their motivations for becoming a member of Heroica, etc.  Aysu was definitely the most interesting who I am curious to know more about.  Decker was also the other character that stuck out to me.  Maybe it is because I love Post-Apocalyptic themed everything but also because I too can relate to the good natured smartass type too.  I think Ronin and Decker would get along quite well since they have similar backgrounds by hailing from dystopian planets.

Now for the elephant in the room... Ronin.  You guys have no idea how thrilled and excited I am to eventually be able to reveal him, the real him, to you guys.  I really like that you guys enjoyed the little bit of him.  The mystery, the intrigue.  I tried to leave some subtle hints about him during the Mission.  Hopefully they were not too revealing of hints.  The way I envisioned Ronin from the get-go was that he indeed is a wanderer without a lord or master, hence his name.  He is a desert survivalist and swordsman.  Personality wise he is very disciplined and collected though sometimes has a tendency to slip and let his frustrations show a bit.  I wanted to keep his backstory as vague and ambiguous as possible to keep you guys more invested into figuring who, or what, he is.  I also want to keep him interactive in way, which explains why he attempted to deceive the party at times.  Had he died on this Mission, I would have been incredibly disappointed mainly because his reveal would have been anticlimactic.  

[samurai-turtle]

@Waterbrick Down I did come with question about the "big gator" loot it states a craftsman need to make armor / weapon, where are "we" spose to get it crafted? I know it doesn't really evolve me but it might come up in the future for me. 

[Waterbrick Down]

7 hours ago, Yzalirk said:

The Mission itself was a blast!  The setting was great and I really hope to see what happens between the Cricet and the Krystal Ice Mining Company in the future.  I can seea lot of future possibilities for this planet in the future.  Same with the Ice Mongers.  Who are they?  They were definitely a curiosity during this Mission for me.  I hope in the future they can be fleshed out a bit more.  They seem like the native intelligent species that have not advanced technologically and stayed more primitive.

You're spot on. The Glacier Mongers are an intelligent nomadic species that are native to Recivic. They typically tend to avoid interaction with other species. If the party had done more investigation and potentially even split one open they would have found more clues pointing to the Drake and its influence on making them bolder and maybe smarter.

The Cricet/Krystal Ice mining conflict is one that I'd like to revisit at some point as I think it has the potential for some more interesting nuance. Plus the setting is really fun to explore as it is so different from almost anything we ever had in Heroica 1.0 aside from maybe one or two quests.

3 hours ago, samurai-turtle said:

@Waterbrick Down I did come with question about the "big gator" loot it states a craftsman need to make armor / weapon, where are "we" spose to get it crafted? I know it doesn't really evolve me but it might come up in the future for me. 

You could have asked about a craftsman in Vindkoss, or you can have it crafted back at the Trade Bazaar.

[Duvors]

To be honest I rather enjoyed M5., even though I don't think that kind of mission really suits my character. It did feel a bit like I was hurrying things along at some points but that never felt particularly odious. To be honest I was worried at some points that I wasn't giving the other players the space for their characters to shine, but thankfully that doesn't seem to have been the case.

With regards to the battles; The first was, quite simply, too easy. Hordes of trash enemies don't seem to work in this system. The second was better, but not quite equal to the party. It's easy to see in hindsight that you were using less points than originally planned.
The Gator fights were awfully swingy, largely due to poor rolls, and that felt awful as a player. I think that the Skill was slightly too high, but admittedly not by much. The thing that bothered me the most was seeing Ronin go down, as I didn't want Yzalirk to lose a character they'd obviously invested a lot in.
The final fight was the best, it had an excellent mix of opponents and things never got so bad, even when I went down, that I rarely felt the need to try and direct the other players. My one gripe with it though was that the grid was bigger than it needed to be. I don't know why you bothered to wrap the grid all the way around the dragon and then never gave us any reason to go back there.

When It comes to the other players, I will wholeheartedly say you were fantastic. I'm sorry you didn't all have the free time to involve yourselves more with the events of the mission, but I enjoyed interacting with you nonetheless.
@samurai-turtle Polaris is a character I like greatly. I think they've come more fully into their own here, and I'm thankful for the chance to bounce my own character off them. MILES is also, I think, the best example of a secondary character I've seen yet. They're very integrated in your character and their presence is always felt in your posts.
@Peppermint_M I'll be honest, even though I like Aysu as a character, I don't have a good handle on them. This isn't to find fault with you, but it just seems you haven't had an opportunity to expand on their character and history. I'm really hoping you get a better chance in the near future.
@Yzalirk Ronin is an interesting character, and I can certainly see what you were going for with them. I'm sorry you didn't have the opportunity to participate more, but I enjoyed interacting with them. I already have a theory about what's under the mask and I can't wait to see if I'm right or not.
@Endgame Decker is a very simple character, and I appreciate that. I do find both their behavior and central concept very amusing, and I hope you have more opportunities to add levity to future missions.

When it comes to my character, I'm happy to see that everyone seems to have enjoyed his company. Samurai_turtle's impression of a tired war veteran is in fact very close to the backstory I've come up with for him, and I'm glad to see that came across. I'm also happy I got the opportunity to demonstrate both the 'rational leader' and 'impulsive do-gooder' sides of his character. Mechanically, this is the first mission I've had the opportunity to play him the way I intended, a support character who largely refrains from attacking, to which I owe the presence of other melee players.

[Waterbrick Down]

1 hour ago, Duvors said:

When it comes to my character, I'm happy to see that everyone seems to have enjoyed his company. Samurai_turtle's impression of a tired war veteran is in fact very close to the backstory I've come up with for him, and I'm glad to see that came across. I'm also happy I got the opportunity to demonstrate both the 'rational leader' and 'impulsive do-gooder' sides of his character. Mechanically, this is the first mission I've had the opportunity to play him the way I intended, a support character who largely refrains from attacking, to which I owe the presence of other melee players.

I forgot to mention this, it was really cool seeing Enson starting to come into his own mechanically throughout the fights. I'm super excited to see how he levels up and whether he'll be the first character with an official "class". 

[Endgame]

Hey all! Some quick hit thoughts on Mission 6 to open up the discussion. More detailed analysis and character breakdowns will be coming at you later.

• The beginning drraaaaaggged. I probably gave a bit too much grace time for everyone to confirm they were in, and it ended up making the opening act feel awful sluggish right out the gate (combined with a few missed posts on my part, early on.) Hope everything is alright, Khorne!
• In general the mission took longer than I wanted it to and that's largely on me. With my work schedule I can often only update at nights, and there'd be plenty of times where I'd log in to update, aaaand Eurobricks would be down.
• I definitely felt like it took me longer to kick off the rust this time than it did for Mission Zero, for whatever reason. You'd think it would've been the opposite! But definitely in terms of building, rendering, story telling, I definitely felt off my game at the start, and I hope it wasn't too noticeable.
• Fun fact: There was 4 potential battles in this mission, and exactly zero of them were mandatory. The "Pacifist Route" for Mission 6 would've looked a bit like:
  • Take the option of driving through the storm. You missed a starter battle against some desert critters is all.
  • Go to the sub. Ignore Agron, plant the signal antenna, leave for Vurenia. Enchidira battle skipped.
  • The second location visited was always going to be night time. There would've been a way to stealth into Vurenia under the cover of nightfall (plus, catching the guards during a switch). HC-288 skipped.
  • Side with Invictus. Boss fight skipped, whole plotline radically changes.
• I thought that the almost-drivng-into-a-rock thing was a solid team building exercise to start the mission off. Mission Zero didn't have a whole ton of places to use proficiencies, so I wanted to be better about giving problems that can be solved with proficiencies here.
• I'm of mixed feelings of how much I railroaded you guys - how did the mission feel in that regard? There were 6 major choices (Skipping the 4 battles, allowing Agron to tag along, choosing which HC-288 to fight), but still I felt like I might've pushed you guys along a bit too much sometimes? Curious to know how players and viewers alike felt.
• The medbay scene was entirely adlibbed! I didn't plan for it at all, but I felt it really let Valesia shine, and it gave me a chance to slip some Lore to Soren and Max.
• There was actually more that was supposed to happen within the walls of Vurenia (at the guarded water refill station), but things were starting to drag a bit and I decided to cut it.
• The Conqueror's Kin and cult stuff was a deliberate red herring... for now, at least. In the end, the clue that some Empire crafts had blackboxes, and that the broadcast kept mentioning the Paragon, was the realer hint.
• I'm generally really happy with how the battles were designed and balanced!
• ...That being said, I REALLY have no idea how to balance loot yet. Was it too much, too little? I feel like some of the prices in the Trade Bazaar threw me for a loop and made it hard to figure out what was fair, although I imagine such things were priced deliberately high to avoid a repeat of the Mead/Smelling Salts/Nostrum epidemic that faced the back half of Heroica 1.0.
• You guys got along... shockingly well with the wastelanders? I thought one pointing a sniper rifle at the skiff would've made you guys more distrustful, as well as all the weapons they looted from dead officers, but you guys seemed pretty cool with them! Not that that's a bad thing, per se, especially considering the nature of the mission.
• Soren's argument with Agron was petty and I thought it was super fun.
• Not a whole lotta investigative scenes. Kind of the issue with a desert, but I probably could've given you guys more to gawk at in the sub and bunker. Granted, it could've slowed things down more. Aileen's office had the most to look at, probably.
• How do people feel about Invictus as an arc villain?

I'll leave off by saying that I thought I had a really good party and a fun set of players/characters. @Alix @The Legonater @Waterbrick Down I'll dive into it more soon when I do deep dive/character analysis stuff, but I really had a great time hosting for you all.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Endgame

[Waterbrick Down]

Thanks again for hosting @Endgame! It was good seeing you flex your MM muscles again and your digital builds are getting better and better. Some of my thoughts:

• The beginning was a little dragged, but not annoyingly. I know we were waiting on our 4th so I'm generally a little more lenient as I'd rather play with more people than rush things along. I wasn't sure how much more info we could have gotten from Glenn as everyone seemed pretty in the dark concerning the scenario, so in a way it seemed like we just waiting to set off into the wasteland and everything beforehand was just prolog and introductions.
• Jumping right into the storm scenario was a really good plan and I loved the skill challenge and ability to contribute in a multitude of ways. I really liked that Soren's piloting skills finally got a chance to shine. 
• The freedom of choice in direction I felt struck a good balance between railroad and sandbox. We had options, but the mission wasn't one where it really needed for their to be complete freedom to the approach. I do like that there was a fully pacifist route that could have been taken.
• I loved the medbay scene and this mission as a whole in that it gave me creative space to expand on at least how Valesia (maybe Cladrasith's) view spell casting. The bits you included about the chaos and discord caused by Invictus really made it for me and is something I absolutely enjoyed.
• I would have liked to see a little more of Vurenia as I feel like we sort of rushed out of there. Maybe a shop or bar where further info about the impact of the war and Invictus could have been shared would have been a good addition.
• You are right we sided more with the Wastelanders, but I think that's more due to our characters themselves. I'd say of the group, Max might be the most lawful, but even then it didn't seem a very forward part of his personality. Soren and Valesia tend toward the more neutral or chaotic alignment, so the gray portrayal of the wastelanders plight was more sympathetic.
• The other locations (submarine and bunker) felt more balanced in terms of scene length. I liked the inclusion of Agron, but again you can see the more neutral/chaotic alignment of the party coming out with their willingness to save him, but not necessarily work with him or ask him to come along.
• What was with the background of the sinking of the submarine? Was that tied into the Invictus storyline, or was that another red herring?
• The fights were all fairly balanced and I never felt they were beyond our capabilities or too much of a cakewalk. I liked that each had a few strategic layers and I'm interested to see what other mechanics your trademark style is able to invent with the new combat system. That being said, the one thing I found myself missing was an interactable setting during combat. While we had the pipe in the second battle, it was a little on the nose as something that could be used to our advantage and even then it was something intended to be targetable, not something we could come up with on our own. Apart from Glenn's tinkering with the antennae, there didn't seem like a lot of room for improvisation in the combat.
• The loot is indeed something that is taking some getting used to. I'm sure we'll figure out the sweet spot eventually. Consumables are tempered slightly by the fact that the bonuses are not as extreme and you can't stack them most of the time, but they are expensive so it can seem like you're giving away an overabundance of loot in terms of raw credits. That being said, I think the loot was sufficient to maybe a little on the light side.
• As a villain, I like Invictus's arc and as a player I probably believe him that he would have passed his days in isolation if we had left him alone, but he's got enough edge and an evil background to have good characters to latch onto and have a hard time letting go. Valesia has a hard time with artificial life and I'm not even sure yet what her perspective is on Adamites, but as soon as it became clear how personal this all was to Glenn, that was all she needed to side with him as "undeath" is certainly a condition she grieves over. I'm excited to see Invictus again in the future and know you do well with multi-mission villains.
• I really appreciate that you let us hash out our differences in opinions before the final boss fight as it really gave time for us to develop those relationships between the characters and how we view each other's perspectives. You struck the balance between letting us come to some conclusions without rushing us into a fight, but also not letting the argument just go around in circles.
• @The Legonater It was great playing with Soren as a fellow player. You continue to shape him well into a chaotic neutral type character and I loved seeing him have his time to shine with his skill proficiencies. His disdain for authority I'm sure probably comes from his background and I'll be super interested to see it revealed over time. He's really a solid character at this point and I'm glad he was able to go toe-to-toe with some of Valesia's more strongly held convictions. I'm also liking the little bit of magic you're giving him as an option to grow over time, it helps him come across as more than just a rogue and I like that he has that variety. As a whole, well done!
• @Alix Your first foray with Maximilian I'd consider a success. While not as outspoken as his companions, I still thought Max's presence was certainly felt in the group. He seemed the most level headed and potentially lawfully inclined of the trio. Mechanically you play him as a pretty good tank and I'll be intrigued where you take him with his kit and character points. The fact that he's one of only two elves we have in the game currently also makes him interesting and I'll be intrigued to see how he interacts with Zaria in the future. All in all, a solid start and I look forward to playing with you again!

[The Legonater]

Echoing WBD's sentiments, this was a solid quest, Endgame! I never wound up popping into any of your 1.0 Quests (I think the old combat system intimidated me a little too muchI ) but it was good to finally sit on one! A decently-paced mystery with a pretty strong climax. I had a lot of fun!

4 hours ago, Endgame said:

• The beginning drraaaaaggged. I probably gave a bit too much grace time for everyone to confirm they were in, and it ended up making the opening act feel awful sluggish right out the gate (combined with a few missed posts on my part, early on.) Hope everything is alright, Khorne!
• In general the mission took longer than I wanted it to and that's largely on me. With my work schedule I can often only update at nights, and there'd be plenty of times where I'd log in to update, aaaand Eurobricks would be down.

To be honest, I quite enjoyed the more laid-back pace of Quest #6! It definitely meant things were a little slower and made didn't have quite the same impact, but given I was hosting my own quest and had a lot going on in my own life, it was nice to not feel a ton of pressure to be super-active for this one. 

4 hours ago, Endgame said:

• I'm of mixed feelings of how much I railroaded you guys - how did the mission feel in that regard? There were 6 major choices (Skipping the 4 battles, allowing Agron to tag along, choosing which HC-288 to fight), but still I felt like I might've pushed you guys along a bit too much sometimes? Curious to know how players and viewers alike felt.

To be honest, I didn't notice. Every Quest/MM is going to have their own balance between freedom of choice and streamlined story. This one definitely more in the latter category, but I certainly don't think that was a problem - especially with aforementioned other priorities going on. And it helps to have a genuinely meaningful choice at the end! You clearly spent the whole quest building up to what to do with Invictus, and so the ending felt like a suitable climax to what was otherwise a pretty straightforward mystery. Speaking of...

4 hours ago, Endgame said:

• How do people feel about Invictus as an arc villain?

I like him! I figured pretty quickly that we were building up to a reveal that Invictus was still around, but it gave me the chance to explore the world a little bit and see just what people thought of this guy. In short, about what you'd expect from an intergalactic boogeyman! I'm still very curious as to what Invictus himself thinks of everything he did; I think that's part of what made the ending debate interesting to me is that we'd heard a lot from all of these other people about the legacy of Invictus but not a lot about what actually, factually happened. I still kind of feel like we're just barely get to know him, but I'm intrigued enough to want to know where he goes, and I'm happy he's not fully dead quite yet. 

What we do have is pretty cool, though. If he's genuinely sorrowful for his past, or at the very least has turned a leaf, it's interesting to have this machine just kind of trying to live while everyone who knows his name wants him dead. Glenn's grief is very valid, but it's hard to say for sure how well-placed it is. I wouldn't be surprised if we had a lot left to learn about Invictus.

Other varying thoughts!

Overall, the quest was pretty strong. I was worried I wouldn't be able to flex Soren's piloting skills, and I'm glad I was proven wrong this early on . Glenn was good at being an active voice without feeling like just an MM stand-in; the fact that we were able to go set up the antennas by ourselves helped that. He felt a little doormat-ish for the first part of the quest but really shone through with his argument with Invictus. The mercenaries were a fun group, and served as a good contrast to what we'd heard about the empire. All the battles were pretty punchy without feeling overwhelming; when I saw Invictus' health pool I readied myself for a grind, but the antenna weaknesses helped speed things up and in the end I think the fight was sufficiently challenging while still feeling very do-able. I feel like we're all still figuring out how exactly combat works works in this system, but I think the high-risk, high-reward of fights keeps things pretty brief and exciting. 

Valesia is a solid character. She inherits some of Skrall's world-weariness but in a very different way. Her resistance to artificial life came as an initial shock but makes a lot of sense, and opens up for some really cool avenues for her character. Her conflict with Soren felt pretty natural but without being overwhelming; I'm glad this never quite got to the intensity of #1's conflicts. Just a sensible disagreement, and one I think they were able to mostly resolve; at least, it didn't seem like Valesia carried a lot of bad blood. Should there be more Invictus quests, I look forward to seeing how she reacts to him in the future!

Max is a lot of fun, I'm pretty partial towards the soft-spoken but opinionated archetype. I'm not sure we got a lot of specifics about Max, but he's still pretty new and that's fine! His general vibe is very good; sort of easy to get along with but pretty firm in his views. I hope you and Max stick around, because he's a strong start to a character and you're off to a strong start as a player!

All-in-all, a nice quest with low-stakes involvement and high-stakes impact in the world. A really cool combination! I'm excited to see what you have up your sleeve with this plot Endgame! 

Edited December 19, 2021 by The Legonater

[Alix]

I’m going to join WBD and Legonater in saying that this was a solid and fun quest!

The beginning dragged a little yeah but like WBD said it wasn’t because of you so that’s entirely ok. I personally think that this quest was pretty much at the sweet spot between railroading and freedom. You moved us forwards and directed us, but we also had choices within those destinations.

As for Invictus – I liked him. It was really nice moment when it was revealed that there actually isn’t any cult behind the transmissions, but the big guy himself. Though if you decide to go down that route, meeting some Invictus cultists would be interesting. Invictus himself was suitably dread inducing figure to be behind all those dark tales, but he also had a slightly more reasonable side that gave us some nice roleplaying opportunities (the argument before the boss fight)

The combat scenarios were enjoyable and had nice variation, though like WBD said there could have been some more interactiveness with the environment. Of course, this is a new system and I have no real ideas how to achieve that, but it’s good to keep in mind that something extra could be nice. 

Glenn was a real highlight for me, as he wasn’t just a stand in for the MM, but an interesting character in his own right. His grief about what Invictus had done felt real and allowed some nice lines in the argument between him and Invictus. Especially when it seemed that Soren and Max could be more lenient towards the bot.

Also, Endgame your builds were brilliant throughout the mission.

@The Legonater

Soren was a fun character to have along. His neutral “I’m just a mercenary on a job” attitude was enjoyable and contrasted nicely with what I had in mind for Max, even if that didn’t show too much. His siding with or at least understanding Invictus was also interesting twist when it made him clash with Valesias opinion.

@Waterbrick Down

It was nice having the one character Max had already interacted with with him in the mission. I like her as a character; the outwardly sweet chef to be, which is contrasted by her surprisingly deep hatred for artificial life. It’ll be interesting to see how she develops further. Also, I think Max owes Valesia one crystal from the HC-288 fight (Soren took a potion from that whereas Max was given both the crystals to carry)

 

As for Maximilian himself I am glad you considered his first outing overall a success. I personally had some trouble adjusting to the actual roleplaying as most of my experience in RPGs such as this are from groups that just goof around and do fun combat encounters, but I really enjoyed the possibility of playing something deeper than that.

 

[The Legonater]

Damn, is #7 the first quest to end since 2021? We've really moved out of the starter quests period. There's a lot one could say about this quest but I want to start with outlining a few core themes that went behind this thing.

First of all, many thanks to karmajay, Zepher, KotZ, and Kintober! We've firmly set ourselves as the longest quest in 2.0, but you guys were great at keeping things active and moving at a decent pace. This one was a journey, and while there wasn't a lot of room for inter-party interaction, there was still a lot for you all to react to. Part of my core pitch for this was "what happens if you take a group of fairly lawful characters and throw them into just the worst situation imaginable?" and you all ran with it as a way to explore your individual characters, which is exactly what I was hoping for! It was cool seeing party consensus start to splinter towards the end - never in a way that would functionally divide the party, but just enough to show how different this party actually was. I also loved how everyone felt like they found their own role in the group as the Quest progressed. Kirwin was the engineer, helping out with tech and keeping their flamethrower close at hand, Merei was support, boosting the party and keeping everyone at bay, while Zaria and Varen shared offense in varying capacities. 

The core seed of this quest came while we were beginning to finalize planning on 2.0 - probably, honestly around a year ago now. I tried to think what we could do in the sci-fi theme that we would never have been able to do in fantasy, and the first thing I settled on was Alien. From there, I thought up Jefferson Hart Mortizar, the eccentric entrepreneur behind a partially-illicit business conglomerate. In a way, #7 serves as an extended introduction to Hart Industries - at once a legitimate shipping operation with extensive reach, and a dangerous victim of its own hubris. I don't know, there's something delightful to me about that as a faction; there's a lot of innate quest potential there. Ideas for the quest sort of grew out of the central "hauling a dangerous alien that got loose" premise until I came to the ending. Once I settled on the ending choice, "kill the Hydra but sacrifice the crew" or "save the crew but risk the Hydra surviving," I went back to seed that idea through the rest of the quest. How do you act when the immediate consequences are dire, but the distant consequences could be even worse? The whole world of this quest was filled with unforeseen domino effects, starting with how Mortizar's hope of taming Port Charon lead to destabilizing the Starblazers. This led to Viper trying to get back at Hart, and Ilbery panicking and rerouting through the Forbidden Sector, and the damage in the cargo containers, and so on and so forth. There were a couple other seeds scattered throughout, like naming the stars Scylla and Charybdis. Basically, I was hoping to build the whole quest up to that final choice, and I was happy that it seemed suitably strained. I hope it didn't feel like I was railroading you into one decision or another - I genuinely at one point thought you would commit to blowing up Valencia, so there was definitely room to go either way. 

On that note, I really hoped to develop a players-first MM mindset in the makeup of this quest. I went back to some of the quests I lead in 1.0, as well as the quests I really enjoyed playing in. I had big ambitions for my 1.0 quests, but they were very plot-heavy. I had a big story planned with huge twists and turns, but I don't know if it was very player-focused. So, goal one was to go "smaller" and narrow in on an open world for the players to explore... which wound up becoming way deeper than I had initially planned because I ended up having so much free time with little else to work on. I turned to a lot of the RPGs I grew up with and a few I've enjoyed recently (especially KotOR II, Prey (2017), and Mass Effect) to flesh out the tone and create something that would hopefully have a lot of player engagement and force you to make interesting decisions. I realized partway in that I'd based it pretty heavily on single-player RPGs, and so I wasn't sure how well the journal-driven narrative would translate to a multiplayer form. It seemed like you all got pretty invested in it, but I tried to give you plenty of off-ramps in case you weren't interested in listening to any of them; I think the only strictly necessary ones were in the med lab and in the captain's lounge. Plenty of the rooms were also optional, but I think you up visiting all of them except for one. So, despite being more focused, #7 wound up having a lot more moving parts than I think I originally planned (like a full crew roster, a timeline of events leading up to the quest, the Hydra's background growth, etc. etc.). All in all, this was a lot to work on, and there were some hiccups, but I'm pretty happy with how it all shook out. I'll probably give it a moment before I MM again, but I'm already generating ideas so I might alternatively pitch them while they're still small so that they don't germinate into a five-month epic again.

One last thing in terms of overarching ideas, I wanted to talk about Stud.io a little. I do not have a lot of pieces for set-building right now because most of what I have is for display, so Stud.io was a life-saver in terms of actually being able to create a cool environment. Digital environments were really helpful in a setting like this where there was a lot of copying and pasting with slight changes. Having full access to unavailable colours was also great - the Hydra pieces technically are all in a speckle-black copper that would basically be impossible to replicate with actual pieces (I would probably alternate to a black or brown, but the copper rendered really nicely to create something very alien feeling). Lighting mechanics are also very fun, and created some very moody settings, though I'm still figuring out control over some of the basic overhead lighting. The biggest con for Stud.io is the minifig selection. It's really lacking in useful alien parts, and it can often be difficult to make major NPCs look just quite like how you want them to. I think it worked well enough for this quest, but I can see it having diminishing returns as you're forced to reuse pieces - I think next quest I'm going to experiment with putting real-world NPCs into digital environments. 

Anyways, that's broad strokes to get things started. I also want to do player feedback and probably break down the individual parts of the quest more, but I'm also happy to answer any questions!

[Zepher]

Legonator, I think you should be VERY PROUD of this quest! I think I was pretty vocal throughout that I really enjoyed both the quest and the party! I feel like the last few days I've been pushing for "I'm okay to wrap up" but that is NOT indicative of how much fun I had, just that I thought you drove us to a very nice conclusion.

I think I'll probably do a fellow character breakdown tomorrow (or, who knows, today, depending how much steam I have at the end of this post) but I want to first break down the quest. It's been a while, and I don't want to go reread it all before giving you your kudos, so my memory may only be so-so at moments, but here are my general feelings.

Act 1 was definitely exploring Charon. I think you did a nice job giving us an in to Hart with Jace and Alexa, who were a really fun pair and gave a good face to this company that, as you said, turned out to be both good and bad. They were unique personalities, but also clearly both straight shooters, and with a quest with so many other difficult elements to parse, I think it was a really good idea to give us someone dependable within the company right off the bat. It was nice to fly with them, and sort of get a chance to open up to the NPCs and fellow PCs before anything kicked off. @karmajay Kirwin's backstory, which I don't think we got in Quest 4, really colored in the character a lot. It's pretty tragic, but I love the idea of being abandoned for reasons unknown and falling in love with adventure serials.

Port Charon was really fun too, and I enjoyed the Starblazers (who were the NPCs, out of many options, I ended up interacting with). It gave us a distaste for Hart, but it also felt they weren't trustworthy either. I'll talk about Viper later, but I really enjoyed them, and was invested in my promise to them to save their leader, even if, again, they seemed like a rough bunch. This would actually be one of my only complaints in the quest - I wish we were given a CP for negotiating with them. It felt like a fight was possible, but Merei didn't want one, and we diffused. I felt badly afterwards, thinking I maybe robbed us of a chance to advance. I don't know if they were a potential fight, but if they were, avoiding a fight feels like it should be awarded as well.

Triangulating the ship was a fun mini-game, and as we talked about at the time, clearly structured after Forbidden Desert/Island. I appreciated that you gave us each a unique ability that was mapped onto our character's strengths.

Aboard the ship, your inspiration became immediately apparent. Alien!! And why not? It's so good. Funnily enough, RIGHT before we got to this reveal I hosted a D&D one-shot that was also 100% based on Alien. And again, why not! Crawling through the ship was fun and TOUGH. You're right in saying we (or at least I) wanted to get access to each of the recordings, and uncovering what happened was a lot of fun. I'd say it ran just a TAD too long, but we were also in charge of that! I think this section was very nicely balanced too between loss and gains. There were some people who were just already dead who we couldn't save. That hurt as a character and player, but of course was fair and logical and really raised the stakes. Then there were people who we COULD save. I don't know what the idea behind the Captain was, but I really appreciated you allowing me to use my race to try to drive out Hydra. I think you and I worked out well behind the scenes that I should have to spend resources to make it happen, and I was really consistent about that, and purposefully so. You were incredibly permissive in letting me bend that rule (make up that rule?) and I hope it felt to you, my fellow players, and the community at large that I sacrificed resources to make it still cost me something. Anyway, were we meant to be able to save the Captain? And if so, how? I came up with a solution on the fly, was there another one?

The arrival of the police was interesting too - I was not expecting them to follow up, and was immediately suspicious of them! That might be myself and Boomingham bleeding through - I don't know if I've ever played a character who believe authorities (companies or police) have the best of intentions. I think it was a nice and tragic twist that they were both actually there to help, and in over their heads. I don't know how the others felt about their arrival, but their actual character surprised me, which is always great. After that we saved the people trapped, and you again allowed me to use a gravity sink in tandem with Zaria to free the one trapped on the ceiling. I think you did a really nice job of balancing creative use of spells with what is allowed, and it allowed for nice synergy. I'll, again, talk move about Merei and Zaria later, but @Kintobor, we've played together for... a decade? With a brief break? I think the characters were getting along well at this point because we hadn't encountered the true nature of the Hydra yet, but I also think throughout we did a really nice balancing act of people who are both working together and counter towards each other. I don't know how you felt about it, but to me it felt quite elegantly done.

AND, now we talk about Viper, which I'll do all at once. This was ANOTHER awesome twist, I thought. On Charon the Starblazers felt like a real power and threat, and I expected their leader to be the same. The fact that he was a pretty solid guy who was also a bit of an idiot, and was aware of that...? Wonderful. So good. It was just the right amount of twist, and when the whole story of how the Hydra got loose unfolded, it felt fantastic. He snuck aboard for pretty legitimate reasons (Hart sucks) but without a lick of the plan, and that landed him and the fire-at-will crew in an immense amount of danger because of Hart's directives. I thought it was really clever and fun.

The puzzle to avoid Hydras was good fun. Zaria just straight up killing Duncan was a great character moment. The airlock fight was... pretty tough. I wanted to fight that Hydra hand thing for longer, though - part of me does wish you'd made us go one-by-one into the airlock, but I understand in a post-based RPG setting that would have really dragged out the fight. Still, it would have led to some TOUGH choices. I was waiting for the Hydra hand monster to show up in the final fight too, but it never did!

And then the end! I said I wanted a tough fight, and we got a tough fight! I feel really really stupid for letting Luce die - I totally forgot three rounds of unstable could do that. That's my, by far, largest regret of this quest. I wasn't healing her because she was under the Hydra's control, but I thought I was playing it smart by leaving her down until I could deal with her. I think it's a testament to you building the characters well (in the holorecordings) that I feel genuinely bad for saving Greenlaw over her. I tried to save the characters in the order that Merei thought they deserved saving, but Luce dropped early so I ignored her for strategical reasons - I think she'd be my second save otherwise. So, I felt bad. Overall, final fight was really good, and a real nailbiter.

The denouement was nice as well. @Kintobor, one final thing I was uncertain about was if you or Zaria were the one mistrusting my reason for staying. I tried to play it as two things, so that Zaria COULD pick which one she wanted to believe. Merei both is genuinely interested in the Hydra, but we also couldn't all fit aboard the ships. It felt right that one of the heroes should be left behind. I honestly was almost expecting Zaria to insist Greenlaw go, with Zaria remaining to defend the survivors left aboard. But it didn't play out. My question is: was that a character focusing on one of the two motivations? Or the player?

Overall, an absolute blast! I do think I'll do my fellow PCs tomorrow, probably, especially because this is probably already too long. But it was a long and good quest, so I want to give it what it deserves in reflection!

[Kintobor]

1 hour ago, Zepher said:

The denouement was nice as well. @Kintobor, one final thing I was uncertain about was if you or Zaria were the one mistrusting my reason for staying. I tried to play it as two things, so that Zaria COULD pick which one she wanted to believe. Merei both is genuinely interested in the Hydra, but we also couldn't all fit aboard the ships. It felt right that one of the heroes should be left behind. I honestly was almost expecting Zaria to insist Greenlaw go, with Zaria remaining to defend the survivors left aboard. But it didn't play out. My question is: was that a character focusing on one of the two motivations? 

Before I get into this, Legonater, phenomenal stuff. I really loved the mission, even with a few criticisms I have. I share a lot of Zepher’s sentiments and will be a bit more descriptive when I get a chance. 
 

In regards to your question, Zepher, it was Zaria, or at least I hope it came off as Zaria. She believes that the Hydra is an abomination in the eyes of Varuth, and her interaction with it before the final fight was a nail in the coffin that Varuth wanted it destroyed. While I think she sees Greenlaw as an outright threat, I think she’s suspicious of Merei. Being interested in the Hydra is one thing, being obsessive over it’s potential positive outcomes is another.  If I’m being honest, I’m shocked Greenlaw’s still alive. I think if I had to go back and replay that scene, Zaria would’ve decapitated her as a means to keep people safe. I think in that moment though my schedule began to conflict with the game and just didn’t get a chance. I’m surprised Simon didn’t blow her brains out with his side-arm, if I’m being honest. If Greenlaw manages to do harm to others, Zaria would blame herself for not taking action, because in this one instance I think fatigue got the better of both of us. Zaria feels like the kind of character that prefers not to start fights, but she will end them in bloody, violent displays of limbs being cleaved from bodies.

I feel like the two of us are just doomed to not get along as PCs.  I jokingly came into this game saying I was going to play Boomers, and here we are. Oh, how the tables have turned.

I forgot about Bobby and Annienal. They actually got along just fine. I miss the “young Heroica” gang, that group was dumb and fun. 

[karmajay]

I enjoyed the mission and interacting with the other players. I think the NPCs did a great job of being real - ie had real world (in game world) motivation to their actions and responsibilities. I enjoyed the deep "scifiness" of the mission.

I do think I had some good RP moments with the other characters that showed a bit of character growth. I do want to have my character continue to be more of an "adventure above risks" character and also the person in the group that is always trying to avoid murderhobo tendencies but it was nice to have some deeper moments interacting with NPCs and players such as the life or death convo with Zaria at one point. I do feel I had an issue the last section connecting with my character and the situations which is why my posts were more actiony and less fleshed out. That was really a me problem as someone that does not have a lot of experience with the  RP stick.

I will say for me personally I struggle with 100% open world RPG stuff. A few TTRPGs I've attended try to leave even the goals to the players and I've also found that to slow the game down a bit because players are trying to come up with goals, paths and solutions while not stepping on each others toes etc. I know we had one overarching goal on the ship but I wonder if there was a chunk of time to be saved if we didn't have to wait to decide to search each room, or wait on others to make some decisions. Since I'm new I don't really have a solution to that or know if it was actually a factor or not. I'm constantly worried about hampering another players fun by taking extreme direct action in certain situations bit it does seem that the characters motivations can really vary in these missions so it would probably be ok.

I did have an issue with the constant melee action we would find ourselves in. While I do understand that it was the main way that the hydras fought I do think it put a bit of a burden on the characters that were not built for direct contact. I do think a good job was done to mitigate that by giving us a lot of plasma potion rewards and allowing creative solutions like Merei said plus the use of the flamethrower to drive hydras away from the action.

Reading Merei's comments above I think we should retcon that Luce lives because I think they were only unconscious for one round before dying. I'd have to look back to be sure. 

Lastly I appreciated the great atmosphere those stud.io builds provided!

Again, thanks for all the hard work by the Gm and the players :)

 

EDIT: Luce is released from control in round 1 and died in round 3

Edited March 30, 2022 by karmajay

[Classic_Spaceman]

@The Legonater: When reading the quest, in addition to the obvious basis in Alien, I picked up on some Resident Evil references (e.g. the disaster being documented through a series of notes that the players can find, finding/building more specialised weapons (Kirwin's flamethrower), needing to go to another room to open a door in the current room (Viper's cell), etc). Additionally, considering the Hydra's ability to bond with Humans, I fully expected the final boss to be a Hydra-mutated member of the crew - Was this something that you considered?