40516 Everyone Is Awesome

[Alexandrina]

22 minutes ago, jimmynick said:

But have there been explicitly LGBTQ+ figures before? I truly don't know.

Not that I'm really sure what Lego could do to make such figures, in a run of the mill City set - but I have never heard of any, other than obviously the few licensed characters who are LGBTQ+ according to the source material 

[penguinz]

As an AFOL who identifies as queer, ever since I was introduced to the concept of monochrome minifigures I've wanted to create a rainbow pride flag with them. This set does exactly that and uses the progressive pride flag which adds black, brown and trans colors for a more inclusive symbol, which I really appreciate. It was fun to watch Matthew Ashton unveil this set 2x3 by 2x3 brick at a time (I was so confused with the first few bricks - the set leak was what finally made it click) and would not have dreamed of LEGO acknowledging LGBTQIA identities in an actual LEGO set rather than tangential way such as previous separate wedding BrickHeadz or Billy Porter in Rebuild the World. It may be a rather simple set design wise, but I think it makes for a classy statement piece. Plus as a person who has done drag, I enjoyed his nod to drag queens with the purple beehive wig!

I consider the use of bright green and light royal blue instead of dark green and medium blue a nice bonus, especially since we got a few parts in new colors as a result (in addition to recolored medium lilac and dark purple bricks). And while most of the monofig colors included are available without part modification (unprinted light royal blue excluded), it is nice to get them fully assembled without needing to switch arms, legs, or hands and possibly damage the torso or hips.

[Borex]

Yes, i like it! I think the monochrome minifigs would look better without the hairpieces, but if i’ll get this set i reuse all those wigs! However i’m not really convinced on the build. It’s a bit boring. But i need the yellow and brown hairpieces and i could use a few of the minifigs as well for custom minifigs

[Vindicare]

48 minutes ago, jimmynick said:

Can we cancel Star Wars because Anakin was born out of wedlock?

Not a great example, as it was explicitly stated in the movie that he had no father. I know a comic said otherwise years later, but not everyone reads or knows about them. 

24 minutes ago, penguinz said:

I consider the use of bright green and light royal blue instead of dark green and medium blue a nice bonus, especially since we got a few parts in new colors as a result (in addition to recolored medium lilac and dark purple bricks). And while most of the monofig colors included are available without part modification (unprinted light royal blue excluded), it is nice to get them fully assembled without needing to switch arms, legs, or hands and possibly damage the torso or hips.

That’s what had me excited too. I’m not much into displaying minifgs, other than having them scattered about my town, but I’ve always enjoyed pictures of people’s monofig collections. But I don’t remove appendages so I never got into it. This did all the work for me. I don’t love to see this continue & make one for each of their colors(olive green ). 

 

To those defending & seemingly not understanding why people are against it(for whatever their reason is), think of something you disagree with & are not a fan of. Now how would you feel if LEGO made a set of it? Would you just ignore it & go about your day or would you voice your opinion? I would hope you’d voice your opinion. All of this “oh, you’re against this? You must  be a bigot or homophobe.” That doesn’t help anyone or anything. It’s the reason threads get locked & discussion ceases, because some people on both sides aren’t open to listening & see everything as an attack. There’s always going to be that minority that outright hates whatever it is, no matter the topic. There’s really no good way to handle them. Chances are they aren’t open to hearing & insulting them will do no good. If society ever hopes to actually make progress, this seeing the “other side” as the enemy has to stop. You’re likely to learn a lot more from people you disagree with than those you do. It certainly has for me. Apologies for the preaching,..I just hate this sides garbage that only further divides our world. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Vindicare

[williejm]

51 minutes ago, jimmynick said:

I don't want to appear to be keeping score, because I'm not, but LEGO have made strides in recent years regarding including people with disabilities. There was a city set not too long ago (or it might have been a while, since I got out of tune with the releases) that featured a minifig in a brand-spanking-new wheelchair, and that stuck with me far more than the actual build. But have there been explicitly LGBTQ+ figures before? I truly don't know.

I mean, what is an explicitly LGBTQ+ figure in a normal Lego set? Could be any of them!

several queer characters have appeared as minifigures (Smithers, Patty, Batwoman, Dumbledore ...) in licensed sets. Also real life lesbian Sally Ride in the NASA set. At the same time several characters based on queer actors have also been made (Gandalf, Bard, Master of Laketown, Prof Sprout, JL Flash... )

not an exhaustive list, just an illustration.

[jimmynick]

1 minute ago, williejm said:

Dumbledore ...

JK's twitter is fanfic

Back to the topic at hand. When someone posts a MOC of a church, nobody comes out of the woodwork to say "But God isn't real" because that would be disrespectful regardless of the builder's beliefs. It's simply unwelcome to hear about the existence of a cliff, one that requires a leap of faith to believe in, when what is very real and close at hand is my and others' feelings about themselves and the people they love.

[williejm]

4 minutes ago, jimmynick said:

JK's twitter is fanfic

Back to the topic at hand. When someone posts a MOC of a church, nobody comes out of the woodwork to say "But God isn't real" because that would be disrespectful regardless of the builder's beliefs. It's simply unwelcome to hear about the existence of a cliff, one that requires a leap of faith to believe in, when what is very real and close at hand is my and others' feelings about themselves and the people they love.

Right?

[LuigiBobLegoPants]

21 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

Not a great example, as it was explicitly stated in the movie that he had no father. I know a comic said otherwise years later, but not everyone reads or knows about them. 

That’s what had me excited too. I’m not much into displaying minifgs, other than having them scattered about my town, but I’ve always enjoyed pictures of people’s monofig collections. But I don’t remove appendages so I never got into it. This did all the work for me. I don’t love to see this continue & make one for each of their colors(olive green ). 

 

To those defending & seemingly not understanding why people are against it(for whatever their reason is), think of something you disagree with & are not a fan of. Now how would you feel if LEGO made a set of it? Would you just ignore it & go about your day or would you voice your opinion? I would hope you’d voice your opinion. All of this “oh, you’re against this? You must  be a bigot or homophobe.” That doesn’t help anyone or anything. It’s the reason threads get locked & discussion ceases, because some people on both sides aren’t open to listening & see everything as an attack. There’s always going to be that minority that outright hates whatever it is, no matter the topic. There’s really no good way to handle them. Chances are they aren’t open to hearing & insulting them will do no good. If society ever hopes to actually make progress, this seeing the “other side” as the enemy has to stop. You’re likely to learn a lot more from people you disagree with than those you do. It certainly has for me. Apologies for the preaching,..I just hate this sides garbage that only further divides our world. 

Nah. Bigots will literally try to take away human rights from us minorities, something we been always fighting for since years.

Why would we listen to a group that will do all kinds of things to kill us?

[1980-Something-Space-Guy]

15 minutes ago, jimmynick said:

Back to the topic at hand. When someone posts a MOC of a church, nobody comes out of the woodwork to say "But God isn't real" because that would be disrespectful regardless of the builder's beliefs. It's simply unwelcome to hear about the existence of a cliff, one that requires a leap of faith to believe in, when what is very real and close at hand is my and others' feelings about themselves and the people they love.

This is very well put.

[2lazeetomakeaname]

30 minutes ago, jimmynick said:

 

When someone posts a MOC of a church, nobody comes out of the woodwork to say "But God isn't real" because that would be disrespectful regardless of the builder's beliefs 

I could see this happening on Reddit.

Also, would you all be offended by a modular church set? If its non denominational, I feel like LEGO should be able to make it.

[Lyichir]

35 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

To those defending & seemingly not understanding why people are against it(for whatever their reason is), think of something you disagree with & are not a fan of. Now how would you feel if LEGO made a set of it? Would you just ignore it & go about your day or would you voice your opinion? I would hope you’d voice your opinion. All of this “oh, you’re against this? You must  be a bigot or homophobe.” That doesn’t help anyone or anything. It’s the reason threads get locked & discussion ceases, because some people on both sides aren’t open to listening & see everything as an attack. There’s always going to be that minority that outright hates whatever it is, no matter the topic. There’s really no good way to handle them. Chances are they aren’t open to hearing & insulting them will do no good. If society ever hopes to actually make progress, this seeing the “other side” as the enemy has to stop. You’re likely to learn a lot more from people you disagree with than those you do. It certainly has for me. Apologies for the preaching,..I just hate this sides garbage that only further divides our world. 

Lego already makes Harry Potter. :P And I've probably already complained enough about that for a lifetime.

But when somebody posts homophobic speech, I'm absolutely going to call that out for what it is. I may stop short of calling them a homophobe personally (since it can be hard to judge intent on the internet), but when it's the same three or four homophobic talking points that have been endlessly debunked (LGBT people not being "family friendly", handwringing about a slippery slope toward whatever type of diversity the person in question finds scariest, whataboutism about the religion and military bans, et al, ad infinitum), it doesn't advance the conversation any. It's just the same warmed over bigotry that's been served up toward LGBT people for decades, and if the people who are spouting it aren't aware of why it's bigoted and incorrect, then by pointing it out I'm doing them a favor.

And as a bonus, being vocal about that sort of thing makes it clear to the unapologetic bigots (the ones who typically have no reservation about insulting and stereotyping minorities) that things like that won't go unchallenged. There's a lot of people who would feel safer and more welcome on sites like Eurobricks if they had the assurance that petty bigotry wouldn't just be laughed off or ignored.

[Alexandrina]

52 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

To those defending & seemingly not understanding why people are against it(for whatever their reason is), think of something you disagree with & are not a fan of. Now how would you feel if LEGO made a set of it? Would you just ignore it & go about your day or would you voice your opinion?

If Lego were to release a set I wasn't a fan of, I would just not talk about that set - because clearly such a set wasn't made for me, and my decrying it would have no benefit. That goes double for sets which are celebrating individual qualities which don't really invite room for disagreement.

Half of the current Lego range is stuff I'm not a fan of. I stay out of discussions about those sets, and instead keep to talking about the sets I do like.

7 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

There's a lot of people who would feel safer and more welcome on sites like Eurobricks if they had the assurance that petty bigotry wouldn't just be laughed off or ignored.

And that's 100% a good thing. Nobody should ever be in a position where they have to hide a fundamental part of who they are just to avoid bigotry. 

[Lasse D]

3 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Similarly, 10224 Town Hall's description clearly identifies the wedding minifiigures as a "bride and groom"

My theory: Money. I have two Town Halls - one of them has a pair of brides, and the other a pair of grooms on the steps. They stood so for years before getting rebuilt into something else. And LEGO sold two town halls to a single customer. It is the same with this new set. You get so few arches in each color that you have to purchase multiple if you want to build certain models in these colors.

[icm]

3 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Don't let the door hit you in the rear on your way out. I'll be sure to pray for you to be saved from your own hateful and decidedly un-Christlike ignorance.

Common sense tells me to keep out of an internet argument, so I'll keep this short.  I've already expressed my opinion on the set earlier in this thread.  @Aanchir, you don't like being bullied.  Please don't bully others.  Let's keep Eurobricks a welcoming place for people of faith who sincerely try to live their brand of Christianity, just as we try to keep it a welcoming place for the kinds of people who are celebrated in set 40516, like yourself.  Christianity is a religion with a broad spectrum of beliefs - and yes, I use the word spectrum intentionally, by analogy to the spectrum of gender and sexual identities represented by the Pride flag and set 40516.  It is not for you, or me, or anyone else to call someone "un-Christlike" simply because their set of Christian beliefs differs from your set of Christian beliefs, or mine.  I bet if you met @Pdaitabird offline, say at an AFOL convention, you'd get along well despite your differences.

[Vindicare]

42 minutes ago, LuigiBobLegoPants said:

Nah. Bigots will literally try to take away human rights from us minorities, something we been always fighting for since years.

Why would we listen to a group that will do all kinds of things to kill us?

 

21 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

Lego already makes Harry Potter. :P And I've probably already complained enough about that for a lifetime.

But when somebody posts homophobic speech, I'm absolutely going to call that out for what it is. I may stop short of calling them a homophobe personally (since it can be hard to judge intent on the internet), but when it's the same three or four homophobic talking points that have been endlessly debunked (LGBT people not being "family friendly", handwringing about a slippery slope toward whatever type of diversity the person in question finds scariest, whataboutism about the religion and military bans, et al, ad infinitum), it doesn't advance the conversation any. It's just the same warmed over bigotry that's been served up toward LGBT people for decades, and if the people who are spouting it aren't aware of why it's bigoted and incorrect, then by pointing it out I'm doing them a favor.

And as a bonus, being vocal about that sort of thing makes it clear to the unapologetic bigots (the ones who typically have no reservation about insulting and stereotyping minorities) that things like that won't go unchallenged. There's a lot of people who would feel safer and more welcome on sites like Eurobricks if they had the assurance that petty bigotry wouldn't just be laughed off or ignored.

You’re both proving my point. People can hold different opinions & not be a bigot. Not wanting to see this set doesn’t make someone a bigot. Having an actual conversation with someone will do that. Especially on the Internet, you can’t always take things at face value. Your apparent inability to listen to other opinions could be seen as bigoted. But that’s only basing it off these single comments alone...not fun huh? I’ve changed my views on a few things based solely on talking to people. Clearly you’re not going to change hearts & minds of everyone you encounter, but taking a shot at it Taiwan too much effort? If they don’t listen, move on  but at least you tried.

I personally would rather they didn’t do this set, because it makes them look like hypocrites. As mentioned churches are something they will not touch. Nothing in Christmas sets showing Christian symbols. Not even a GWP.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Vindicare

[Alexandrina]

9 minutes ago, Lasse D said:

You get so few arches in each color that you have to purchase multiple if you want to build certain models in these colors.

I'm not so sure that's as cynical is being down to money. Most if not all of the colours have already been released in the relevant parts - and in most cases, multiple times. That there's only two arches per colour is probably more a product of that being how many are needed for the model. After all, it's not like there's only one 2466p68 in the 6833 Beacon Tracer so consumers would buy loads of the set. That's just what the model needs.

5 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

Not wanting to see this set doesn’t make someone a bigot.

I promise I'm not trying to catch you out or anything, but I'm genuinely having trouble understanding the mindset of someone who complains about this set. Obviously not everybody has to want/be enamoured with it, but if someone simply doesn't want it because it doesn't interest them, do they need to comment on it? As an example here, I'm not a Technic fan so Technic sets aren't aimed at me and don't appeal to me. Doesn't mean I go into the Technic thread when a new set is revealed to say that I don't want to see that set. And if someone doesn't want to see this set because it's supportive of the LGBTQ+ community and they don't agree with that... does that not make them a bigot?

[2lazeetomakeaname]

19 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

. And if someone doesn't want to see this set because it's supportive of the LGBTQ+ community and they don't agree with that... does that not make them a bigot?

Do you want them to make a nativity set or Noahs ark set to show support to Christians? If not- does that make you the bigot?!?!?

[Clone OPatra]

9 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

As mentioned churches are something they will not touch. Nothing in Christmas sets showing Christian symbols. Not even a GWP.

It doesn't matter if there are overt Christian symbols or not. Advent Calendars are inextricably linked to Christmas. Santa Clause sets are inextricably linked to Christmas. Easter Bunny sets are, guess what... inextricably linked to Easter.

There are huge populations in the world that don't celebrate Christmas and Easter and for whom therefore those things (Santa, Advent, Christmas Tree, Easter Bunny) are not part of their life. There are minority populations within the countries where those things are prevalent who don't as well. That many irreligious people have adopted practices of having a Christmas tree and an Easter Egg hunt doesn't divorce those symbols from the particular religious framework from which they originated.

However, you never see people who don't subscribe to those practices complaining that LEGO is ramming Christianity down our throats or overlooking all of the other world religions.

[Alexandrina]

Just now, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Do you want them to make a nativity set or Noahs ark set to show support to Christians? If not- does that make you the bigot?!?!?

Honestly I don't see any issue with that. It would actually be an opportunity for good minifigure parts too, so all the more in favour. :)

[Clone OPatra]

2 minutes ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Do you want them to make a nativity set or Noahs ark set to show support to Christians?

Christianity is already very well represented as per my post I was writing at the same time.

[2lazeetomakeaname]

1 minute ago, Alexandrina said:

Honestly I don't see any issue with that. It would actually be an opportunity for good minifigure parts too, so all the more in favour. :)

You are not the bigot!!

3 minutes ago, Clone OPatra said:

Christianity is already very well represented as per my post I was writing at the same time.

Christianity is represented by secular symbols that have made those holidays lose there true meanings? Christianity would be well represented if they made a crucifix set or something with a real Christian symbol.

[Vindicare]

20 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

I promise I'm not trying to catch you out or anything, but I'm genuinely having trouble understanding the mindset of someone who complains about this set. Obviously not everybody has to want/be enamoured with it, but if someone simply doesn't want it because it doesn't interest them, do they need to comment on it? As an example here, I'm not a Technic fan so Technic sets aren't aimed at me and don't appeal to me. Doesn't mean I go into the Technic thread when a new set is revealed to say that I don't want to see that set. And if someone doesn't want to see this set because it's supportive of the LGBTQ+ community and they don't agree with that... does that not make them a bigot?

Please do...I’m all for conversation. Some people are harder to figure out than others. For whatever reason, some people just like to be hateful. That boils down to, I believe, a screen sitting between them & the other person(s). I’ve seen plenty of complaints, similar to what I have about it, is the...nature...of the message. It seems I make it too late to the really hateful comments online, but I can imagine. LEGO doesn’t do hot button topics like this. I recently saw a post on Instagram comparing this set as being “too political”(in a mocking sense) to the Indy set that had “Nazis.” I use quotations because as far as the set isn’t concerned they’re not Nazis, just generic soldiers. Because even putting a red band on an arm would be a lot to swallow for many people, despite its accuracy to the source. When you have a public forum such as this or social media, one should expect a number of views to hit a topic from all directions. 

(And to touch on your previous comment to me) I was referring to hot button topics, not simply sets and/or themes that don’t interest you. I should’ve made that more clear. There’s plenty of LEGO’s catalog that I wouldn’t buy that I don’t comment on, we all have those areas. 

[Clone OPatra]

9 minutes ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Christianity is represented by secular symbols that have made those holidays lose there true meanings? 

Indeed it is. Those "secular symbols" are only "secular symbols" in Christian countries, and specifically denote the Christian holiday occuring at that time of the year. They are not universally secular, just secular within a Christian context.

[Aanchir]

2 hours ago, Vindicare said:

I think the set itself is great. I don’t like the messaging behind purely because the company shies away from it. It’s the same reason we don’t have military themes or Christian symbols in WV sets. Because those are political & being the ire of folks  of they’re going to stay away from it, do it. Or, dive right in & make more of this to other groups. Equality, right?

I think you're mistaken. The lack of modern, real-world military themes IS a political statement, and is based on the LEGO Group's pacifist values. Whereas this is based on the LEGO Group's inclusive, pro-diversity values. There's nothing contradictory about those two stances. It's just choosing to create sets that reflect their values as a company instead of ones that oppose them

Similarly, LEGO has made plenty of Duplo sets that promote multiculturalism, Friends sets that promote environmentalism, and Ideas sets that promote feminism. All of those are political movements as well, and extremely controversial ones in many right-wing circles! But they're values that LEGO is perfectly happy to stand behind and endorse.

You're correct that LEGO tries to keep all of their sets secular. This set follows that rule to a T, and is not an endorsement or renunciation of any specific religion. Certainly, people of various faiths might have religious objections to LGBTQ+ themed sets like this. But likewise, many people might also have religious objections to sets based on supernatural/occult subject matter, or female figures wearing two-piece swimsuits or other midriff-baring outfits. That doesn't make it a religious statement for LEGO to include that sort of subject matter in their products.

2 hours ago, Vindicare said:

To the Town Hall, who’s to say that either one of them isn’t transgender? Trans people identify & want to be labeled as what they are, do they not? So would it not be accurate to state “bride & groom?” 

It would be, and there's no reason to assume either of them is or isn't trans. But they're still clearly intended as an opposite-sex couple. My point is that it'd be nice to see more recognition of same-sex couples in general, as well as more overt representation of trans characters in more story-driven themes.

It's totally okay if you don't care about the official storylines or descriptions of sets or themes, or see any need for characters to have specific identities in the first place. But that doesn't mean nobody should care about that stuff — especially since a lot of my own favorite themes like Bionicle, Ninjago, Friends, and Elves tend to be among the more story-driven ones.

It'd be easy for some future LEGO Friends set to have a gay or trans pride flag sticker decorating a character's desk, locker, or bedroom wall, providing some subtle recognition in the same way that sets featuring Emma often include small references to her Asian heritage. Or for a future LEGO City set to include a child with two moms or two dads. Or for a future LEGO Ninjago season to include a character with a crush on another character of the same sex.

These are the sorts of small gestures LEGO could make that would have an extremely positive impact for a lot of kids. And I don't think it's too extreme to hope for that sort of thing, considering how many books, comics, TV shows, and video games aimed at kids are already taking these sorts of strides. It'd be a bit of a risk, maybe — but LEGO has shown with this set that they're not afraid to take some risks if it means standing by their values and sending an affirming message to their LGBTQ+ fans. So… I'm going to keep on hoping, and it's no skin off my back if you or others don't share those same hopes with me.

[Vindicare]

16 minutes ago, Clone OPatra said:

It doesn't matter if there are overt Christian symbols or not. Advent Calendars are inextricably linked to Christmas. Santa Clause sets are inextricably linked to Christmas. Easter Bunny sets are, guess what... inextricably linked to Easter.

There are huge populations in the world that don't celebrate Christmas and Easter and for whom therefore those things (Santa, Advent, Christmas Tree, Easter Bunny) are not part of their life. There are minority populations within the countries where those things are prevalent who don't as well. That many irreligious people have adopted practices of having a Christmas tree and an Easter Egg hunt doesn't divorce those symbols from the particular religious framework from which they originated.

However, you never see people who don't subscribe to those practices complaining that LEGO is ramming Christianity down our throats or overlooking all of the other world religions.

Santa Clause is a classic. 

Yes, all of that is linked to Christmas, but what else is? Jesus. Just as there’s plenty of people who don’t celebrate Christmas in that fashion, there’s also plenty who do. The WV Cottage could’ve came with a nativity print or sticker as yard decor, but they don’t do that. I can guarantee if they made a set this Christmas with a Christian theme to it or some nod to it, there would be plenty of complaints. 

Jabba’s Palace was pulled from shelves because of religious purposes, if I’m remembering correctly. Despite the set itself not having a thing to do with  religion(outside of some design cues).