40516 Everyone Is Awesome

[danth]

5 minutes ago, williejm said:

<Sigh>. Did you need to have that dig at someone voicing frustration? 

No he's right. All the trans people who have actually been assaulted or murdered in hate crimes, all the ones who have committed suicide to end the bullying and gender dysphoria -- see, they aren't the real victims in all this. The real victim is Fuppylodders , because he can't think of the right word sometimes.

Let's all forget about this whole Everybody is Awesome thing and have a big pity party for Fuppylodders. Yay Fuppylodders!

[Fuppylodders]

7 minutes ago, williejm said:

<Sigh>. Did you need to have that dig at someone voicing frustration? 

Like they've been doing to me this whole time I'm just trying to learn? He doesn't even try to help, just wants to do put downs and suppress those that do want to learn while using misinterpreted analogies. Even though, yes, I know it was wrong to. 

[danth]

Something to keep in mind during conversations like this. It was written about antisemitism, but applies to pretty much any debate like this.

Quote

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

― Jean-Paul Sartre

[Alexandrina]

1 minute ago, danth said:

Something to keep in mind during conversations like this. It was written about antisemitism, but applies to pretty much any debate like this.

― Jean-Paul Sartre

Not sure I can get on board with that quote being applicable here. Yes, there may well be people talking in bad faith - but I certainly don't think backing away from the debate is a sign of that. Anybody has the right to step away from a conversation at any time.

[Fuppylodders]

1 minute ago, danth said:

Something to keep in mind during conversations like this. It was written about antisemitism, but applies to pretty much any debate like this.

― Jean-Paul Sartre

So, I'm supposed to move on, elsewhere. But the moment I do, I then 'back up' (not prove) what you've just quoted? I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't. 

At this point, I do want to give up... Because I'm not doing this for amusement, or any of the above. But yet, again, all you're doing is quoting an irrelevant point but to which puts me in a situation where if believed, I can't do right no matter how I proceed. 

So, you tell me what I should do now? 

[2lazeetomakeaname]

2 minutes ago, Fuppylodders said:

So, you tell me what I should do now? 

Eat a snack?

Edited May 27, 2021 by 2lazeetomakeaname

[danth]

22 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

but I certainly don't think backing away from the debate is a sign of that. Anybody has the right to step away from a conversation at any time.

True. I know I'm getting tired.

[Shiva]

10 hours ago, Shiva said:

This pronouns thingy.

Not all languages have a he or she, him or hers. Finnish, has hän, hänen, etc.

https://translate.google.com/?hl=en&amp;sl=en&amp;tl=fi&amp;text=she he her his&amp;op=translate

Translating from finnish to english, goofs up google translate.

I do not care if one is a he, she, it or something else. I rather care about how that person is.

 

8 hours ago, williejm said:

Fine, but that’s whataboutery. You then go on to suggesting ‘it’ as a pronoun and somehow that’s not supposed to be offensive? At a very basic level, call people what they ask you to. And, if in doubt, don’t make needless assumptions. 

Where did I suggest "it"? If they ask to called "it" "they" "them" "he" "she" "mrs" "mr" "miss" "ms", or totally something else. Then I'll try to call by that too. If my memory works. However, I prefer not to call them by a bad word, even if they ask to be called by that.

Are you the one trying with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism here?

[williejm]

1 minute ago, Shiva said:

 

Where did I suggest "it"? If they ask to called "it" "they" "them" "he" "she" "mrs" "mr" "miss" "ms", or totally something else. Then I'll try to call by that too. If my memory works. However, I prefer not to call them by a bad word, even if they ask to be called by that.

Are you the one trying with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism here?

Do read back what you wrote. ‘I do not care if one is a he, she, it or something else...’

 

apology accepted in advance. 

[Shiva]

31 minutes ago, williejm said:

Do read back what you wrote. ‘I do not care if one is a he, she, it or something else...’

 

apology accepted in advance. 

I accept your apology.

[Aanchir]

7 hours ago, Fuppylodders said:

Take a pair of twins. Give them the same upbringing. The same everything. They will still think differently on things. Why? Because our brains don't all think the same way right from birth. There is soooo much going on that affects our growth before we're even born but after conception. 

This feels like sort of an ironic example, considering that I actually DO have a twin brother. And while we do think alike in a lot of ways, you're right that there are differences between us — for instance, I am trans and he is not.

At the same time, though, you're not telling us anything LGBTQ+ people like us don't already know. Many of us have needed to endure a long and difficult struggle just to change our thinking enough to accept OURSELVES for who we are. Growing up in a society where prejudices and stigma against LGBTQ+ people remains widespread means that we don't often get a choice in whether we learn or internalize these prejudices as we grow up. And so many of us get caught in the trap of suppressing some of the very traits that make us ourselves, mistaking them for flaws or obstacles to our growth and happiness, and hurting ourselves in the process.

And sometimes the process of overcoming these sorts of ingrained beliefs does involve people judging us or calling us out for saying things that are hurtful to them, whether or not we meant them to be or understood why they were hurtful at the time. I realize that being called bigoted or intolerant probably feels unfair or hurtful, but you need to remind yourself that people who say that sort of thing likely don't have any sort of personal grudge against you. Rather, most of us have had to endure considerable and persistent disrespect and mistreatment from people who share the way of thinking that your posts reflect, and have been conditioned to react defensively.

It also doesn't help that a lot of the time, people who have no intention of learning and only intend to harm us adopt a strategy of "just asking questions" and pressing us further on any answer we give them — knowing from the beginning that no answer we give them will ever be enough to change their minds about us. And believe me, having to explain ourselves over and over to people who have no intent of listening DOES tend to hurt and exhaust us. Maybe some of us have misjudged your comments or mistaken them for this sort of bad-faith interrogation, and I apologize if I have done so at any point.

In general, one of the weaknesses of a public discussion thread like this is that we cannot control how our comments might be understood or interpreted by all the different people who might end up reading them. And especially in a topic like this that's primarily about a particular set, I think it's easy for long lists of LGBTQ+ related questions or critiques of other users' tone or attitude to feel like an attempt at derailing the conversation or invalidating other people's enthusiasm.

If it helps, I encourage you to message me privately with any questions you have about LGBTQ+ identities, terminology, etc (including transgender-specific questions)! It might be easier to have that sort of discussion on a one-on-one basis instead of having to worry about your comments being taken the wrong way (as can easily happen in a public forum like this. Trust me when I say that I wouldn't understand NEARLY as much about LGBTQ+ issues, or even have as much understanding and acceptance of my own identity as I do, if it weren't for the friends I could reach out to about that stuff, and who were willing to listen patiently and not judge me for not having all the answers.

I can't promise I'll be able to answer all your questions without getting tired or frustrated, but I am willing to keep any details of our discussion between us, and to answer as many of your questions as I'm able to without getting burnt out. If you do say or ask anything that feels impolite or intrusive to me, I'll try to be polite about letting you know and explaining why comments or questions of that sort might be met with that sort of reaction.

I realize I'm taking a risk by trusting that you have a genuine willingness to learn about this stuff, and to unlearn any prejudices, half-truths, or falsehoods that have made it harder to participate constructively in the discussion of this set and the ideas behind it. And if I end up feeling that extending this offer was a mistake, we can hopefully agree end our discussion there. But I think it's likely a better outcome for all of us if we take the time to discuss this stuff in private messages instead of talking in circles over here in a snarky back-and-forth that could end up hurting or alienating people.

Give it some thought, and feel free to message me if you decide you want to take me up on that offer.

[Commander Strax]

Please can I ask- I'm very keen to get this set, and I'm over in the UK! I understand this set is available to buy on the lego shop website from June 1st, will this be at midnight in the UK, or will it be a bit later, if the set will be available to buy from all countries at the same time? I'm very keen to order the set as soon as it's available as I really don't want to miss out on it!

[Alexandrina]

42 minutes ago, Commander Strax said:

Please can I ask- I'm very keen to get this set, and I'm over in the UK! I understand this set is available to buy on the lego shop website from June 1st, will this be at midnight in the UK, or will it be a bit later, if the set will be available to buy from all countries at the same time? I'm very keen to order the set as soon as it's available as I really don't want to miss out on it!

In my experience, new sets are available at midnight on release day, if not a few minutes before. Can't see why this one would be any different.

[Shiva]

Best might be to start checking a hour or 2 before midnight? For some items I think I have read on forums that the midnight release has been at or around 23 british time.

[Commander Strax]

@ Alexandrina and Shiva- Thank you both very much for your help!!

[williejm]

1 hour ago, Shiva said:

Best might be to start checking a hour or 2 before midnight? For some items I think I have read on forums that the midnight release has been at or around 23 british time.

Which of course would be midnight in Denmark ;)

[Johnny1360]

I was glad to see this set come out, for the figures mostly and not for the reasons others are discussing here and when it all started I wanted to chime in but I didn't, I just listened. Didn't want to fan the flames so to speak.

All my life I have been drawn to unique/different individuals and thoroughly enjoy listening to their thoughts and view points, I find it very interesting. So for me anyway, LEGO has scored big with this set, thanks for all the valuable insight and mindful discussion, for those that kept it civil, I have gained a bit more respect and understanding for people that are different from me. Never a bad thing.

Can't really beat the price and there are many elements I can use from this set, so I will definitely pick it up at some point. All the other stuff is an added bonus, even though at first I was abit concerned about the direction of this thread.

And the other one too.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Johnny1360

[zoth33]

Someone on Youtube put out that Lego is making a  drag queen fig and it so happens to be this set which is all monochrome figs but on the thumbnail they had a lego fig all done up like a drag queen and the comments of hate and now that lego is pushing this on children in the comments was really sad.  I mean if you don't like the set don't buy it plain and simple.  But the beauty of lego has always been to me anyway that you can make it whatever you wanted to be even back in the 80's and 90's when there were no orc, goblin, elf, minotaur, etc figs I still made my figs what i wanted them to be.  It's just sad how people think that things like this set will corrupt their children into something they fear or don't understand.  I hope people would just enjoy things for what they are but I guess we are along way from that happening.  

[Brickroll]

42 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

Someone on Youtube put out that Lego is making a  drag queen fig and it so happens to be this set which is all monochrome figs but on the thumbnail they had a lego fig all done up like a drag queen and the comments of hate and now that lego is pushing this on children in the comments was really sad.  I mean if you don't like the set don't buy it plain and simple.  

A-hole you tubers and clickbait thumbnails, name a more iconic duo.

[williejm]

50 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

Someone on Youtube put out that Lego is making a  drag queen fig and it so happens to be this set which is all monochrome figs but on the thumbnail they had a lego fig all done up like a drag queen and the comments of hate and now that lego is pushing this on children in the comments was really sad.  I mean if you don't like the set don't buy it plain and simple.  But the beauty of lego has always been to me anyway that you can make it whatever you wanted to be even back in the 80's and 90's when there were no orc, goblin, elf, minotaur, etc figs I still made my figs what i wanted them to be.  It's just sad how people think that things like this set will corrupt their children into something they fear or don't understand.  I hope people would just enjoy things for what they are but I guess we are along way from that happening.  

And isn’t it *fascinating* that a minifig Drag Queen (which, let’s face it, any of us could cobble together right now, and several released figures certainly give Drag a nod...) is somehow more of a corrupting influence than a Minotaur or an orc? There’s no logic to the panic.

[zoth33]

13 minutes ago, williejm said:

And isn’t it *fascinating* that a minifig Drag Queen (which, let’s face it, any of us could cobble together right now, and several released figures certainly give Drag a nod...) is somehow more of a corrupting influence than a Minotaur or an orc? There’s no logic to the panic.

 

23 minutes ago, Brickroll said:

A-hole you tubers and clickbait thumbnails, name a more iconic duo.

.Yeah I really don't get all the hate.  I know some people have really religious beliefs but it's not like they are pushing an agenda it's a great set and some of the money goes to a good cause.   A lot of these people preach compassion and love yet not seeing it.  We all have our differences and that's the point of the set to love everyone because we are different.  Not seeing much love from some totally ignorant people.  I personally like the set and the parts are quite useful especially the hair pieces.  I have so many sets to buy in the next months.  

Edited May 29, 2021 by zoth33

[legotownlinz]

Adding my two cents: I appreciate Lego is doing this set. Well done.

[Shiva]

zoth33, I found that video. I did NOT upvote that video. Quite the contrary. If that is the right word.

[Killian]

As a gay person who didn't feel represented in any toys growing up, it means everything to me that Lego have produced a set celebrating diversity and inclusivity. I'm buying 3.

For people saying the set doesn't represent disabled people because there's no minifigure in a wheelchair, I'm just like "there's plenty disabilities where a person can still stand". Every minifigure in the set has Acrania anyway, they've all been born without faces.

People opposed to rainbows on religious grounds better not read Genesis 9 where God says his rainbow is a sign of his promise to ALL life, not just certain genders, sexualities or races.

Anyway, so excited for this set! I'm going to display one, keep one in the box and use one for custom minifigure parts. Counting the hours until the release date  

 

[Mattah12]

Just ordered mine with a gift card from a month or so back, along with a Loony Toon!