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I have the feeling that more and more instructions are now paid instructions. Even the ones for C models of small sets aren't free anymore.

Do you have the small feeling? Do you think that it is a good thing?

Is it because some people do it as their main activity? Do they succeed to sell many instructions?

Maybe these instructions are more popular now because TLC provides less B models instructions as before.

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No, I don't think it's a good thing. I've already paid for the set, and I pay for an Internet connection for downloading digital instructions. I shouldn't have to pay extra on top of that.

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Posted (edited)

I'd say it's a case by case scenario. Certainly MOCs like Gray Gear's 1:8 JDM cars or Sheepo's vehicles deserve to have paid instructions as these are models that a lot of time and work was poured into. However there are also cases of mediocre digital models that haven't even been test-built having instructions published for 20+€ which is unreasonable to say the least.

I'd say it is mostly due to how easy it has become to do so, some time ago you'd have to manually process each payment, keep up with your customer details in case they've lost their files, whereas nowadays you set up an account on one of these sharing sites and simply publish them with the websites taking care of everything . And probably tool like Stud.io made it much easier to create instructions. 

However, take this with a grain of salt as I never made paid instructions

Edited by syclone

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Having myself made some instructions for original Mocs as well as one C model, I feel that selling the instructions is legitimate, in the cas your MOC is quite complex and the instruction creating process takes time.

As an example, I've made instruction for my Subaru WRX in Stud.io, by doing each step by hand. In that cas, I sell them for 10 €, as I've spent many hours designing the instructions.
Whereas in an other case, I've made a C model of the set 30754 (not technic, but it's just to show my point). In this case, the instructions took me around 30 minutes, and there is around 15 steps. In this case, I don't sell the model, as I feel that it would'nt be right to do so.

The global rule that I apply when I fix the price for my Mocs is something like : the price is proportional to the number of parts and steps. (Keep in mind that it's just an estimate)

And concerning the succeed of the sales, I really depends on the model… From what I've seen on my own MOCs, when it's representative of a real counterpart, it sells better.
And looking on rebrickable at user sent picture, it seems that a non negligible part of them are from C-Models, so I think they must sell well…

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1 hour ago, Maaboo35 said:

No, I don't think it's a good thing. I've already paid for the set, and I pay for an Internet connection for downloading digital instructions. I shouldn't have to pay extra on top of that.

You paid for the set to get the instructions from Lego and to get the bricks from Lego

You paid for your internet from your provider so you can connect with other people or businesses

What makes you think that paying for these things means you can get free stuff from others?

Someone spent time on it, time is money, so they want money in exchange back. Basic economy here.

I think it is fine, as long as there is no false advertising going on, like a build that is really weak or parts that are glued without mentioning that in the description only for you to find out when you paid.

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4 minutes ago, Lira_Bricks said:

 

My problem is that in many cases now paid instructions are the only option if you want a (decent) B-model, especially for larger sets. And in my view that's unfair. TLG should put more effort in and offer more B-models.

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8 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

Hobby ends where grabbing money starts.

TLG's pissy little strategies are killing this theme for me. No B-models for larger sets, C-models locked behind a paywall. Yes, some instructions only cost a fiver, but over time the amount of money spent on them will build up if you want multiple models.

For the record, I'm fine with Sheepo et al charging money for their designs since they've dreamed up their own, original models and invested time and effort into them. They're not really my thing anyway.

B-models are, though, as they add value to a set and can even be better than the main model. But hey, TLG have that bottom line. Who needs effort and creativity? :hmpf_bad:

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I understand that it takes time to create instructions but if it is a leasure, we don't necessarily have to be paid for it.

Would the moc builders still create mocs/instructions if there was no money to gain?

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Posted (edited)

Depending on the model, I'm fine with it. I've made some models with free instructions, because I simply don't think they are good enough to be paid. I've also made one paid model so far, since I do believe that one is good enough. I've spent a long time designing and building it, and creating proper instructions takes a lot of time, even with the help of studio. Currently I'm working on 2 different models. One will probably have free instructions since it's a simpler/ smaller side project, but the other won't be. I've spent hundreds of hours on it, I'm definitely not going to give away free instructions for that.

Look at it from a different perspective. Take someone who paints as a hobby for example. He likes to paint, but does that mean he should hand hand prints, or give away the painting for free? No, in my opion. If someone puts work into something, I think it is ok to ask money for it.

Now, there are definitely some models which are overpriced, or which would be better of being free, and that is a bad thing. But, those instructions probably won't sell well, which might make the creator consider to lower the price for future models. I guess the price and amount of paid instructions is based on the current market, and apparently there is a market for it. Besides that, Lego isn't cheap, so if you can make some money with it to fuel your future endeavours, why not?

 

Edit:

I wanted to add, since the lego for the MOCs can be quite expensive (especially for larger models), is it a problem to pay a fraction of that for (reasonably priced) instructions? This way you can also support the creator.

Edited by Jerry LEGO Creations

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I'd also like to make it clear that I'm not blaming the designers in the Technic department. These decisions presumably come from on high: "Sorry lads, we can't do B-model instructions anymore 'coz we're sinking too much money into shit like Vidiyo."

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Akbalder said:

I understand that it takes time to create instructions but if it is a leasure, we don't necessarily have to be paid for it.

Would the moc builders still create mocs/instructions if there was no money to gain?

I would still make MOCs, because I enjoy doing it.

But I certainly wouldn't be making instructions. It is tedious, annoying and exhausting work. It took me 100+ hours just for the building instructions for my 1:8 Nissan GT-R MOC. I had to take 2 weeks off work to find the time do it.

I only make building instructions to help pay for the costs of the MOC, otherwise I wouldn't be able to afford this hobby the way I do now. 

Of course I was also encouraged by @LvdH and others asking for building instructions, and I really appreciate people enjoying my MOCs.

Edited by Gray Gear

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3 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

I only make building instructions to help pay for the costs of the MOC,

I pay for my hobby myself.

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I am not sure what is going on here. If somebody decided to create MOC and sell instructions for it, it is his/her decision. And you have your own mind and will and you can buy it or not, no pressure here. If the MOC is trash, price is high, the market will verify such creator very rapidly.

MOC designers with paid instructions are not the problem, it is TLG selling sets without B-models. If you have some complains, you should direct them to TLG.

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Just now, keymaker said:

MOC designers with paid instructions are not the problem, it is TLG selling sets without B-models. If you have some complains, you should direct them to TLG.

:thumbup:

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

My problem is that in many cases now paid instructions are the only option if you want a (decent) B-model, especially for larger sets. And in my view that's unfair. TLG should put more effort in and offer more B-models.

So the issue is that TLG stopped doing B-models, not that people are charging for C-model instructions.

Ohp never mind, missed it by a few minutes :tongue:

Edited by Bartybum

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17 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

I pay for my hobby myself.

Good for you. They way you are talking I am pretty sure you have never made Building Instructions in your life. It is a lot of work, and work you do for others to enjoy your MOC. But feel free to prove me wrong, link some free building instructions you made.

 

7 minutes ago, keymaker said:

MOC designers with paid instructions are not the problem, it is TLG selling sets without B-models. If you have some complains, you should direct them to TLG.

Exactly. C-Model Building Instructions were sold way before LEGO stopped making B-Models. They just got more popular now because now there is no alternative.

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8 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

now there is no alternative.

Which is wrong.

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Question for Moc builders: do you hesitate between getting paid for the instructions versus having a lot more people building it?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Akbalder said:

do you hesitate between getting paid for the instructions versus having a lot more people building it?

Not really. I don't think it would make much of a difference, at least in my case. If you can afford to spend like 300+$ on a MOC you should also be able to pay 15-20 bucks for the Building Instructions.

 

But for B-Models the question is more interesting, as the builders often already have the needed A-Model, and the cost of the Instructions is the only expense. In that case having free instructions instead of selling it might increase the popularity significantly

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23 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

never made Building Instructions

Okay, you want pun, you get pun.
I made over my life a lot of instructions for another hobby, actually multiple websites full of it.
But they're free for everyone.
I would be ashamed to ask money for it, sharing my hobby and creations is paid with honor, not with money.
you on the other hand are only trying to cash over the back of others.

Happily there are a LOT of people here that lover to make free instructions
Just because they find it fun.
Without them there wouldn't be al those ball contraptions to name just something.

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People put time and attention into instructions. Don't like to pay? Then don't buy them.

Personally, most instructions I put online are free ( www.vayamenda.com ) because I don't really like the hassle of selling things online.  

The whole "Lego doesn't provide instructions for B models" is a separate discussion. 

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2 minutes ago, Akbalder said:

Question for Moc builders: do you hesitate between getting paid for the instructions versus having a lot more people building it?

No. I treat MOCing as a hobby, a way to put my creation skill in use, maybe also to left some sort of mark in this world when I will be gone :)

Sometimes I decide to do free instructions, sometimes paid ones. But it is still a hobby, not business. Some extra money for a MOC as a sign of appreciation is a nice thing, but definitely not an important factor.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

I made over my life a lot of instructions for another hobby, actually multiple websites full of it.
But they're free for everyone.
I would be ashamed to ask money for it, sharing my hobby and creations is paid with honor, not with money.
you on the other hand are only trying to cash over the back of others.

If it is true, then I tip my hat to you.

But you seem to miss the point I was trying to make. Not everyone is as financially comfortable as you seem to be. 

If you think that selling building instructions is "cashing over the back of others", then we seem to have a very different understanding of the matter *huh* 

Asking payment for honest work is normal. Do you for example not buy books because the author is not offering it for free?

Edited by Gray Gear

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Posted (edited)

I believe that great work should be paid, so even if you build a C model of a set you should get paid if it is a complex project that required a lot of time. Big MOCs should of course be paid because of the work involved.

Edited by IA creations

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