Arch thoughts

[Tube Map Central]

14395 and 18653 are beautiful parts, I think they are my favourites. Put them together and you get graceful continuous curves, just what I need for Art Nouveau windows.

http://www.tubemapcentral.com/legodesign/Arches/nice_narrow.jpg

Because the geometry is perfect, you can make the windows any width you like using straight sections.

 

http://www.tubemapcentral.com/legodesign/Arches/nice_wide.jpg

And I did!

http://www.tubemapcentral.com/legodesign/Arches/botanical_gardens.jpg

 

http://www.tubemapcentral.com/legodesign/Arches/buffet.jpg

The new 70681 is a disappointing part because when you try the same sort of thing you get sharp corners. Actually it still has Art Nouveau potential, and this part is a mirror of inverted slope 24201, but my sense of smoothness is nonetheless offended.

http://www.tubemapcentral.com/legodesign/Arches/disappointing.jpg

13965 and 30099 are nasty parts. The top of the arch finishes awkwardly. I can't think of a way to smooth it to horizontal and so you get an ugly break in the curve. The lower slope is even worse, the lip at the bottom is more than a plate high. How is this part in the system?

http://www.tubemapcentral.com/legodesign/Arches/nasty.jpg

Or am I missing something? Do those two parts fit with other parts, or are there ways of making beautiful smooth curves from them?

[Lira_Bricks]

In your last image, the difference between the bottom slope and the tile is the height of half a plate, or the width of a bracket. If you place a 1x1 brick on its side next to it, you will see it has the same height as where the bottom slope ends.

 

The bottom slope of the second to last picture fits https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=24201&name=Slope, Curved 2 x 1 Inverted&category=[Slope, Curved]#T=C

[MAB]

On 5/1/2021 at 10:51 AM, Tube Map Central said:

13965 and 30099 are nasty parts. The top of the arch finishes awkwardly. I can't think of a way to smooth it to horizontal and so you get an ugly break in the curve.

It's a pointed gothic arch so a beautiful piece if you want gothic arches. You cannot smooth it to horizontal just like you cannot make a rounded arch piece into a gothic arch.

[Tube Map Central]

That's fine, you go off and write a post about the beauty of pieces with respect to gothic arches, but you will reach exactly the same conclusion as me, that some size parts are beautifully fit for purpose, but other size parts are frustratingly unusable. Your gothic arches all have to be the same size.

It all seems a bit arbitrary, TLG seems to focus on individual parts for sets rather than systems. That certainly seems to be the case when you look at the situation re. circular (or circular sections) of bricks, tiles, plates, panels and fences, although that particular situation seems to be improving slowly.

[MAB]

So what is your point? That LEGO should only make parts that fit your design ethic and not what others want? If you cannot use gothic arches in your designs, don't use them and just stick to rounded ones. Just because you cannot use them in your designs, it doesn't mean they are nasty. I cannot see how this is focusing on parts for sets and not a system. With arches they are covering rounded and pointed, they also do the sharp printed as well.  They can be used as individual styles or combined as trefoil designs.

[Johnny1360]

Lol, read the first post with great interest but now, well nevermind.

[Tube Map Central]

On 5/3/2021 at 12:37 PM, MAB said:

So what is your point? That LEGO should only make parts that fit your design ethic and not what others want? If you cannot use gothic arches in your designs, don't use them and just stick to rounded ones. Just because you cannot use them in your designs, it doesn't mean they are nasty. I cannot see how this is focusing on parts for sets and not a system. With arches they are covering rounded and pointed, they also do the sharp printed as well.  They can be used as individual styles or combined as trefoil designs.

Stop lecturing me, you are so tedious

[Lyichir]

70681 is designed, in many ways, as a mirror of the 1x6 arch 92950 (the same way that 18653 mirrors the 1x6x2 arch 15254). Like 92950, the curve of 70681 matches 1x2x2/3 "baby bows" (11477, or the inverted variant 24201). You can use this matching curve to create interesting curved patterns on a wall, or to create a curved surface that the bow bricks can slide along. 70681 also pairs really well with 13965—two of each creates a sort of triangular window shape with edges that bow outward.

I was at first on board with your analysis, but you can't just critique all arches according to one use case (creating a smooth, unbroken curve with no corners) when there are many, many other purposes for arch bricks beyond that one goal. As mentioned above, gothic arches were largely impossible to create effectively before the introduction of 13695, so criticizing its curvature for not creating a full 90° curve feels like criticizing a square for not being round.

I do agree, though, that the "step" in 30099 can be frustrating at times. Having studs at the bottom does have value in terms of connectivity, but leaves an unusual break in the curvature that isn't present in its non-inverted sibling. If you wanted to use those curves for windows in a MOC like you show above, I would recommend covering that gap with something ornamental like a gargoyle, planter box, or other sort of fixture to mask the "step".

[Aanchir]

I agree that smooth, quarter-circle or half-circle curves can be very useful, but I think there's still a lot of value to having curves that result in "corners", especially ones like 70681 that belong to a larger family of parts. Some of the other with the same "profile" as 70681 include 92950, 93273, 93604, 11477, 24201, 29119, 29120, 32803, 41854, 66956, 73682, 88930, the inside AND outside curves of 47755, the top and bottom of 35300, and the flat sides of 30602, 44675, and 62361. And there are probably others that I'm either forgetting or haven't discovered yet!

Others have already mentioned examples of instances where it can be useful to have arches that AREN'T a perfectly smooth curve, such as gothic arches, but I should also add that 13965 and 70681 can be combined to create a beautiful approximation of a Reuleaux Triangle, with an opening 4 studs wide by 10 plates tall (32mm by 32mm):

Edited May 4, 2021 by Aanchir

[1974]

When flipped that is a nice shield. Would be cool is those parts came as inverted versions also

[1974]

Something that has bothered me for years regarding arches, is this problem :

Putting two arches 90 degress next to each other. The supporting column needs to be 2x2. I'd really like to able to use a 1x1 column. The only solution I've come up with is using a 3676 inverted slope. But it looks terrible for castle architecture

So it was very nice whe n TLG made the 38585 corner arch (and the other matching half arch)

But this only works for the 1x3 arch and of course, it will never be made in light grey

And it will also not be made for the more common 1x4, 1/2x6 and 1x8 arches that I use tons of

But could such a part not be made for the 5x4 arch and two other new half arches?

[Erik Leppen]

What could be a way out for @1974's use case about the corner column is using the brick 1x1 with studs on two adjacent sides, and use the 1x3x2 inverted arch sideways on each of the side studs, and then a few studs lower, use the same 1x1 brick with sideways studs and attach tiles to the side. Then the corner column is 1.4 x 1.4. Of course, this has side effects to the rest of the build, because you're using SNOT which makes it more complicated ... but it's an idea nonetheless that may be of use to someone reading this :) 

[1974]

Oh, that is nice! If only Icould do that with light grey parts

[anothergol]

On 5/1/2021 at 11:51 AM, Tube Map Central said:

How is this part in the system?

it's more the new arch parts that are "out of system" (for the best), the vast majority of Lego slopes have a half-plate offset, and I think it sucks big time & it's time for Lego to trash the old crap & adapt & catch up with other brands that have more clever, chainable slopes. Lego is stuck with slopes that were pretty much designed as roof tiles, & thus back then it made sense for them to look like roof tiles. All they did over years is to reduce the grain on slope surfaces.