Classic base plates being retired by February 2022

[wesker]

https://www.brickfanatics.com/is-the-lego-group-about-to-discontinue-its-traditional-baseplates/

Didn't see a topic on this yet. Apparently all four classic base plates will be retired by February next year.

Coming so soon after the recent change to the road system it will be interesting to see what replacement if any they come up with.

[Jack Sassy]

Wait what!? Guess I'll have to buy a bulk of those fast, if I want to finish my project cheaply.

[Alexandrina]

I hope they're retiring them to replace them with new ones - perhaps a packaging rebrand, or even a different colour range - rather than getting rid of baseplates altogether. I've always personally been a fan of baseplates in sets - in fact I got a little giddy the other week when I found out that the Spring Lantern Festival set had some, as I assumed they were pretty much limited to modulars nowadays.

[Lyichir]

14 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

I hope they're retiring them to replace them with new ones - perhaps a packaging rebrand, or even a different colour range - rather than getting rid of baseplates altogether. I've always personally been a fan of baseplates in sets - in fact I got a little giddy the other week when I found out that the Spring Lantern Festival set had some, as I assumed they were pretty much limited to modulars nowadays.

Well, the Spring Lantern Festival is as much a modular as the recent Ninjago City Gardens, as far as adhering to the same connection standards is concerned.

I am a little skeptical of whether baseplates are going away entirely. I doubt they'll stop appearing in modular buildings for compatibility's sake, and I seem to remember similar worries the last time a set of baseplates was being retired (only to be replaced with a similar range of baseplate packs immediately afterward). Baseplates aren't without their issues (I really favor the versatility of full-thickness plates in a lot of cases), but as a casual building surface for youngsters, they're hard to beat. Heck, I've made a lot of use of the white baseplates introduced last year myself, not for MOCing but for photographing Dots parts for reviews. It's possible that Lego could introduce another larger size of full-thickness plates to replace the classic 32x32 baseplate, but I can't help but be skeptical—the 16x16 plates alone already require a more complex surface underneath to brace them and reduce warping. A larger size might be even more of a challenge to effectively engineer.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Lyichir

[1974]

One of the reasons supposely is that they're manufactured by an outside company and TLG wants to end that. That makes little sense. The plates are vacuum formed in large sheets then cut to size. Such a machine is cheap compared to the injection moulding machines used for other parts. TLG could just buy a few of those and make all the baseplates they want

Nah, it's because of the half thickness and not being compatible with the SYSTEM

Interesting to see if a 32x32 plate posp up or Modulars will sit four 16x16 plates

Whatever they do it will piss off the AFOLs

 

[eldiano]

So what would take it’s place if anything at all?  

[wesker]

2 hours ago, eldiano said:

So what would take it’s place if anything at all?  

Plates would be the simplest solution either by selling the 16x16 pieces on their own under the Classic branding or introducing a new 32x32 sized plate.

Another option could be taking the new road plate and releasing a modified version that's entirely studded on top. Lego has already used a similar piece for the base of several Juniors sets. The benefit of this method would be that the 2-plate thickness would avoid any warping issues and the ability to link them using the 1x4 indents on the side would offer a stronger foundation for sets in a way that single plates would not. Modular buildings would also be correctly leveled with the new road system.

The only other option I can think of are the 16x16 bricks that are being used in the Lego Art sets but those would probably be too large (being 4 plates thick) and more expensive than their worth compared to the other two options.

[Lord Insanity]

I don't buy the rumor at all.  Maybe the specific packaging, set numbers, or colors of the current versions is set to retire.  That has happened before.

LEGO couldn't possibly be so clueless as to hand all baseplate sales to their competition, could they?

[Flak Maniak]

If the phasing out of baseplates does happen, and... It means better access to 16x16 plates (or even bigger!), in more colors... Then I'm fine with it. Plates are more versatile. Yeah, baseplates are nice; I don't mind them. But I'm not super-attached to them either. I'd probably be more attached to baseplates if raised ones were still being used. But, whatever; as long as we get good building substrates of some kind, it's alright.

[Flak Maniak]

Edit: Very interesting quote here, from the article:

Quote

One reason behind this change could be that the LEGO Group is currently attempting to bring production of its entire element library in-house. Baseplates are one of the few remaining products the company has to outsource to external suppliers, because they’re produced by thermoforming rather than injection moulding.

I don't actually know which parts historically haven't been in-house; heard people cite the Chima masks and such. But, I wonder if it will mean some significant changes in which styles of part are viable.

[Toastie]

On 4/30/2021 at 3:39 AM, Lord Insanity said:

LEGO couldn't possibly be so clueless as to hand all baseplate sales to their competition, could they?

None-what-so-ever!

Honestly, this argument must be a joke. TLG can crank out >every< piece they want or see fit. As they do continuously. Just go e.g. to the Technic line. I mean, when the parts used there are not demanding in making, baseplates are? Really? And if the baseplate-making-technology is not available anymore ... it is gone into oblivion? Really?

Sorry.

This is a very simple and straight forward business decision. Come on folks. It is the year 2021 - and counting.

Best
Thorsten

[MAB]

^ I agree. If LEGO want to bring everything in house and retain baseplates, they could just start making baseplates themselves. They are rich enough to invest in the necessary machines and expertise.

 

If they go, it wouldn't surprise me if they are replaced by the existing 16x16 plates that are 2 plates high with overlaps to neighbouring plates. They are simple to form 32x32 bases, or 48x32, or 16x32 so more flexible than baseplate when it comes to sizing and easier to package and will probably lay flatter too.

[TeriXeri]

I think it's interesting that LEGO didn't go with a 32x32 size for the Harry Potter chess set (34x34), or the new Taj Mahal (30x30) .

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by TeriXeri

[Lion King]

17 hours ago, Toastie said:

None-what-so-ever!

Honestly, this argument must be a joke. TLG can crank out >every< piece they want or see fit. As they do continuously. Just go e.g. to the Technic line. I mean, when the parts used there are not demanding in making, baseplates are? Really? And if the baseplate-making-technology is not available anymore ... it is gone into oblivion? Really?

Sorry.

This is a very simple and straight forward business decision. Come on folks. It is the year 2021 - and counting.

Best
Thorsten

I 100% agree.

[deraven]

9 hours ago, DBlegonerd7 said:

This is a very simple and straight forward business decision. Come on folks.

This part I agree with, but it works both ways.  TLG does indeed know how large the market is for the baseplates and if their business decision is to not produce them anymore, that's all there is to it.  It's not a matter of being able to produce them in-house, it's a matter of if they want to do so at all.

I certainly think most of us here would prefer they continue to make them, but the same discussions were had for the 9-volt train system over a decade ago and here we are...

[Flak Maniak]

I wonder if there's a reasonable replacement. "One, stable part that covers 32x32 area" is a tall order. Yeah they can combine some 16x16 things, but that won't be as pick-up-able as a creation on a 32x32 baseplate. If it's feasible to make 32x32 plates then that'd be great.

[MAB]

4 16x16 tiles are pretty stable if joined by plates overlapping by at least 2x width plates on each side of a join. I find the current 1x overlap pieces a bit weak. 

But then, when lifting any heavy model on a 32x32 baseplate, I prefer to do it on a board rather than just by hand.

[1974]

16x16 tile?

[MAB]

^ 16x16 plate. These are the ones I find a bit weak when lifting. 

Whereas if you cover a 16x16 plate to make it 2 plates high and overlap a 4x4 plate with the neighbour then they are more stable when lifting.

[Aanchir]

On 4/29/2021 at 5:05 PM, eldiano said:

So what would take it’s place if anything at all?  

Perhaps they'll start selling standard thickness plates in their place. Judging from the price on LEGO Customer Service's Bricks & Pieces site, it likely wouldn't be too hard for them to release a 4-pack of 16x16 plates (perhaps even with a few other plates to connect them with) for the same price that 32x32 baseplates are currently sold at.

Alternatively, they could just be preparing to roll out baseplates of the same size and thickness as current ones, just with updated set numbers and a different type of plastic that helps further their sustainable materials efforts.

Or maybe instead of outsourcing baseplate production but then selling them as a standard LEGO product, they'll just entrust the production AND distribution to a third-party licensor, same as they do with "lifestyle" products like clothing, housewares, and stationery.

There are lots of possibilities, but one way or another, I doubt they're planning to discontinue baseplates without anything new to take their place.

On 5/3/2021 at 8:12 PM, deraven said:

This part I agree with, but it works both ways.  TLG does indeed know how large the market is for the baseplates and if their business decision is to not produce them anymore, that's all there is to it.  It's not a matter of being able to produce them in-house, it's a matter of if they want to do so at all.

I certainly think most of us here would prefer they continue to make them, but the same discussions were had for the 9-volt train system over a decade ago and here we are...

The 9-volt train system is a BIT of a different case since, like magnets, that had more to do with changes in toy safety regulations than with any of LEGO's internal workings or the interests of their buyers. But I agree that LEGO probably knows the size of the market for baseplates better than any of us do, and it's entirely possible that it's not as big as a lot of us tend to imagine.

After all, back in the 80s and 90s, baseplates were frequently included in sets from most themes, especially larger sets. But since 2012, the vast majority of sets and themes have eschewed baseplates in favor of standard-thickness plates, and it doesn't seem to have hurt the sales of those sets and themes — or the success and popularity of LEGO in general — one bit. Of particular note, the Friends theme has been a rousing success since its launch, even though baseplates have NEVER been included in any sets from that theme.

So it's entirely possible that if LEGO switched to selling packs of standard-thickness plates in the Classic theme instead of baseplates, it'd be the same way, and the majority of buyers would have no issue with the switch. Whereas if it DOES turn out to be a mistake, I don't see any reason they couldn't just reverse course and re-introduce traditional baseplates, considering that they don't manufacture them in-house to begin with.

[TeriXeri]

26 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

.But since 2012, the vast majority of sets and themes have eschewed baseplates in favor of standard-thickness plates, and it doesn't seem to have hurt the sales of those sets and themes — or the success and popularity of LEGO in general — one bit. Of particular note, the Friends theme has been a rousing success since its launch, even though baseplates have NEVER been included in any sets from that theme.

The introduction of the 16x16 regular plate in 2011 also helped that fact, it certainly benefit a lot of sets, alongside 8x8 and 8x16.

Most Friends sets that involve buildings are based around at least 1 16x16.

Edited May 5, 2021 by TeriXeri

[Aanchir]

27 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

The introduction of the 16x16 regular plate in 2011 also helped that fact, it certainly benefit a lot of sets, alongside 8x8 and 8x16.

Most Friends sets that involve buildings are based around at least 1 16x16.

Yeah, it's definitely no coincidence that baseplates started to disappear from most sets just shortly after the 8x16 and 16x16 plates were introduced. And while I understand some folks' worries that having to use four smaller plates instead of one 32x32 baseplate will be less sturdy, it doesn't take too many pieces to lock them together securely, from my experience.

Furthermore, sometimes models are honestly EASIER to transport, store, or relocate if you can separate them into more sections. For example, models like Main Street with large empty spaces between structural elements can be tricky to carry without some of the assemblies coming loose due to the uneven weight distribution and the flexibility of the empty parts of the base. By comparison, a model like Town Centre lets you separate the road modules from the buildings and "stack" them, with the buildings at the top of each stack — not unlike how convention exhibitors with Modular Building layouts tend to keep their road baseplates mostly unadorned, and separate the buildings from the roads and from each other for transport.

[ShaydDeGrai]

I'm not going to get too worked up about this at this point.  I have baseplates that date back to the days when they were rectangular and had some of the studs painted white to show where the first tier of bricks was supposed to attach.  Baseplates have been around for a long time and even if TLG stopped making them tomorrow, between existing stock and clone offerings, they're not going to become as rare as monorail track overnight.

That said, I think it's entirely possible that TLG is just going to bring them in-house and  continue to offer a "new" part with the existing form factor.  They certainly have the resources to get into the thermoforming business if they chose to.  

This might also be their chance to do more with their soy plastics. If they are looking to "improve their numbers" from a ratio of ABS to "greener" plastics standpoint, baseplates would be a good way to up the amount of material used on the green side of the scale.  Existing baseplates are already a bit flexible, so that's not an issue; there are no bottom connections so precision molding and design for clutch strength can focus entirely on the array of studs.  The DOTS line has already flirted with alternate manufacturing techniques for stud arrays with their rubber wrist bands; it's not hard to imagine that someone at the TLG is at least considering a different way to make a baseplate out of a different material while keeping the same basic form-factor and functional tolerances (clutch strength, stiffness, durability, etc.)

If they go with traditional plates (at full plate thickness), I could see a lot of Modular collectors getting very irate.  (Imagine the shift to 8-wide for Speed Champions backlash on steroids...)  Aside from the backwards incongruity (which, to be honest, wouldn't phase _ME_ much, I live in a neighborhood where the sidewalks are all different level and the roads are speckled with pothole patches so a slightly higher curb on my next modular would just be art imitating life), I concur with other here that they'd likely have to use four 16x16 plates and piece them together.  The smaller plate solution could introduce weakness when moving models around (or constrain design to compensate for those seams. 

Given the occasional warping I've seen on some larger plates, I'm skeptical of TLG attempting to introduce a 32x32 ABS plate as a baseplate alternative.  It feels like a large, but thin, form-factor compared to their typical injection molds and might even require different timing and/or post-processing to ensure that it cools flat without warping or cracking.  And once it's in the field I'd worry about its brittleness and the risk of torquing or twisting the surface.  Two plates thick with appropriate webbing and flanges on the underside, I could see; one plate thick with full anti-stud connectors across the entire bottom sounds problematic to me.  Assembling a base out of smaller sections is probably the better idea.

But as has been said before, this could be nothing more than a ploy to move production of an identical baseplate in-house.  We just have to wait and see.

 

[Aanchir]

3 hours ago, ShaydDeGrai said:

This might also be their chance to do more with their soy plastics. If they are looking to "improve their numbers" from a ratio of ABS to "greener" plastics standpoint, baseplates would be a good way to up the amount of material used on the green side of the scale.  Existing baseplates are already a bit flexible, so that's not an issue; there are no bottom connections so precision molding and design for clutch strength can focus entirely on the array of studs.  The DOTS line has already flirted with alternate manufacturing techniques for stud arrays with their rubber wrist bands; it's not hard to imagine that someone at the TLG is at least considering a different way to make a baseplate out of a different material while keeping the same basic form-factor and functional tolerances (clutch strength, stiffness, durability, etc.)

Slight correction — the plant-based polyethene that LEGO is currently using in sets is derived from sugar cane, not soy. That said, this is honestly a good point, and a possibility I hadn't considered.

3 hours ago, ShaydDeGrai said:

If they go with traditional plates (at full plate thickness), I could see a lot of Modular collectors getting very irate.  (Imagine the shift to 8-wide for Speed Champions backlash on steroids...)  Aside from the backwards incongruity (which, to be honest, wouldn't phase _ME_ much, I live in a neighborhood where the sidewalks are all different level and the roads are speckled with pothole patches so a slightly higher curb on my next modular would just be art imitating life), I concur with other here that they'd likely have to use four 16x16 plates and piece them together.  The smaller plate solution could introduce weakness when moving models around (or constrain design to compensate for those seams. 

I don't think that the stability issues of using four 16x16 plates compared to a 32x32 baseplate are as big an issue as a lot of folks make them out to be. After all, Cafe Corner, Green Grocer, and Fire Brigade were all built on a pair of 16x32 baseplates instead of a single 32x32 baseplate, and it didn't result in any noticeable design constraints or stability issues compared to later buildings! Likewise, the upper floors of Modular Buildings have all been built on assemblies of standard plates from the very beginning, and it generally hasn't resulted in any noticeable structural flaws or design limitations.

And outside the Modular Buildings, there have been numerous "expert-level" sets with full-thickness plates as their foundations, including the Fairground Collection Haunted House, Monster Fighters Haunted House, Roller Coaster, Carousel, Ferris Wheel, Temple of Airjitzu, Barracuda Bay, Medieval Blacksmith, and the entire The Simpsons theme and Winter Village Collection.

A lot of the time, set designers even seem to prefer these sorts of foundations over baseplates — so I don't see any reason to think they'd feel creatively limited by them. Even in sets like Modular Buildings that are locked to a rectangular footprint by virtue of their grid layout, they would open up a number of new possibilities (like, say, bases that are 24 studs wide,instead of just multiples of 16, or buildings with different floor colors between the "backyard" and the different rooms of the ground floor).

Edited May 6, 2021 by Aanchir

[Lyichir]

From New Elementary's new interview about the new road plates:

Quote

Our thanks to the LEGO employees who took time to answer our questions, and to Jordan Paxton for organising this interview. One last note: there has also been a lot of speculation in the community that the new road plates will mean the end of vacuum-formed baseplates. The LEGO Group spoke about this concern earlier in 2021:

The importance of studded baseplates to the AFOL community is well understood in AFOL Engagement. Over the last few days this has been discussed within the team, department and with other stakeholders including Creator. The baseplates are on many of our desks displaying our creations or our minifigure collections. Also, they have continued to play a role in many outbound licensing products like wall mounted minifigure displays. It is hard to make promises about what the future holds for any product, set, theme or element as tomorrow can always present a new challenge or opportunity. What we can share from our conversations is that exiting the studded baseplates is not something we foresee in the near future. For now there are still multiple baseplate products still in production including Classic sets, bricks and pieces and available in LUGBULK. Hopefully this helps ease some concern.

In other words, there are no current plans to stop producing studded baseplates, so we can probably put those rumors to bed.