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LEGO Star Wars 2021 Set Discussion - READ FIRST POST!!!

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3bjia1zw58021.png  It is a shame that lego can't make quality figs like they used to though.

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1 hour ago, ARC2149Nova said:

these figures just aren't that great. That doesn't need a rebuttal, it doesn't need a defense. At the end of the day, we'll all just deal with it.

you can't say that like it's an objective fact, at the end of the day that's just your opinion. Sure, they could have been more accurate, but most people do not have an issue with the shortcuts being taken. Lego reused the shoretrooper helmet for tank troopers, even though they look extremely different. Lego reused the mudtrooper helmet for general veers, even though the goggles are completely different. Lego uses the exact same hood pieces for every single hooded character. Leia has used the same queen hairpiece for years, even though it has two buns at the back that Leia never had in the movies. At the end of the day, there are going to be workarounds. While they definitely could have done better, they did not do bad in the first place. 

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33 minutes ago, Archer said:

  It is a shame that lego can't make quality figs like they used to though.

Man, seeing that really puts into perspective how much the quality has dropped over the years.

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45 minutes ago, Archer said:

  It is a shame that lego can't make quality figs like they used to though.

I had that fig when I was younger and didn't understand WHAT it was :pir_laugh2:
...but a pretty cool faceprint anyway.

I remember 6 years ago - when I came back into Lego, it wasn't the norm all figs had back printing. And for some reason around that time they started to put out hairmolds and helmet molds like crazy. Before they'd just reuse an existing (not fitting) mold or not make the figure at all (at least not with the missing hair or helmet piece).

There's been crazy improvement over this time. Sure there are also some downs but this wave surely is a huge step up. Compare this set to the Rebels AT-ST: no helmets, inaccurate skin colour, no hairpieces, no leg prints.

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2 minutes ago, Kim-Kwang-Seok said:

There's been crazy improvement over this time. Sure there are also some downs but this wave surely is a huge step up. Compare this set to the Rebels AT-ST: no helmets, inaccurate skin colour, no hairpieces, no leg prints.

Ohh, you mean the Rebels AT-TE? The clones were rough, but they killed it with the Inquisitor. 

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1 hour ago, Archer said:

 It is a shame that lego can't make quality figs like they used to though.

 

32 minutes ago, Meadius said:

Man, seeing that really puts into perspective how much the quality has dropped over the years.

You people are a joke...

53 minutes ago, AIex said:

you can't say that like it's an objective fact, at the end of the day that's just your opinion. Sure, they could have been more accurate, but most people do not have an issue with the shortcuts being taken. Lego reused the shoretrooper helmet for tank troopers, even though they look extremely different. Lego reused the mudtrooper helmet for general veers, even though the goggles are completely different. Lego uses the exact same hood pieces for every single hooded character. Leia has used the same queen hairpiece for years, even though it has two buns at the back that Leia never had in the movies. At the end of the day, there are going to be workarounds. While they definitely could have done better, they did not do bad in the first place. 

Yes. I can. They aren't that great. If you admit they take shortcuts, then you by default admit that they could be better, this is logic 101. I don't really care, but you guys keep insisting that there's something wrong with the sentiment that the figures are inaccurate and thus fairly mediocre. No one cares if Veers has the wrong goggles, no one cares about them using a universal hood piece, hell, no one really cares about the Tank Driver/Shoretrooper helmet debacle, despite that being far worse than this. No one even really cares that the BB figures are lackluster, you keep defending something that needs no defense.

Stop always trying to fight someone for criticizing something you personally have no issue with. It gets tiring voicing an opinion and getting mocked in reply.

I find it downright laughable that you all sit there and admit that these figures miss the mark (however slight) and still try to argue like we're wrong.

Now, for the love of Lego, let's drop this...

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8 minutes ago, ARC2149Nova said:

 

You people are a joke...

Yes. I can. They aren't that great. If you admit they take shortcuts, then you by default admit that they could be better, this is logic 101. I don't really care, but you guys keep insisting that there's something wrong with the sentiment that the figures are inaccurate and thus fairly mediocre. No one cares if Veers has the wrong goggles, no one cares about them using a universal hood piece, hell, no one really cares about the Tank Driver/Shoretrooper helmet debacle, despite that being far worse than this. No one even really cares that the BB figures are lackluster, you keep defending something that needs no defense.

Stop always trying to fight someone for criticizing something you personally have no issue with. It gets tiring voicing an opinion and getting mocked in reply.

I find it downright laughable that you all sit there and admit that these figures miss the mark (however slight) and still try to argue like we're wrong.

Now, for the love of Lego, let's drop this...

If you want to drop this, stop acting superior to everyone you disagree with and that your opinion is fact.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AIex said:

you can't say that like it's an objective fact, at the end of the day that's just your opinion. Sure, they could have been more accurate, but most people do not have an issue with the shortcuts being taken. Lego reused the shoretrooper helmet for tank troopers, even though they look extremely different. Lego reused the mudtrooper helmet for general veers, even though the goggles are completely different. Lego uses the exact same hood pieces for every single hooded character. Leia has used the same queen hairpiece for years, even though it has two buns at the back that Leia never had in the movies. At the end of the day, there are going to be workarounds. While they definitely could have done better, they did not do bad in the first place. 

Apparently some people think their opinions mean fact and then get annoyed when someone doesn't agree with them. Thankfully it seems most can understand the difference of opinions on sets and be ok with it. 

39 minutes ago, Kim-Kwang-Seok said:

I had that fig when I was younger and didn't understand WHAT it was :pir_laugh2:
...but a pretty cool faceprint anyway.

I remember 6 years ago - when I came back into Lego, it wasn't the norm all figs had back printing. And for some reason around that time they started to put out hairmolds and helmet molds like crazy. Before they'd just reuse an existing (not fitting) mold or not make the figure at all (at least not with the missing hair or helmet piece).

There's been crazy improvement over this time. Sure there are also some downs but this wave surely is a huge step up. Compare this set to the Rebels AT-ST: no helmets, inaccurate skin colour, no hairpieces, no leg prints.

As someone that recently got out the dark ages within the Star Wars sets, there has been overall VAST improvement. I was there, during the original couple of waves twenty years ago. So much has changed and so many cool sets and minifigures. For me, I'm still catching up on TCW so haven't even hit the Bad Batch intro in Season 7, so I feel I have an outsider opinion on the set - a remarkably well done set overall that misses perfection on a number of things. Figures really do the characters justice, but I can see why others would be disappointed. 

Edited by Prometheus87

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1 hour ago, Prometheus87 said:

Apparently some people think their opinions mean fact and then get annoyed when someone doesn't agree with them. Thankfully it seems most can understand the difference of opinions on sets and be ok with it. 

How about some people just get tired of the whole "you're wrong because I don't care" routine? I've said multiple times that if you like the set, that's fine. No one is trying to dissuade the hype. If the figures are lackluster (and they are from an objective standpoint, compare them to Vader, Boba Fett, any of the new Mando figs) that's a reasonable statement which doesn't need to be argued over.

Making fun of and mocking people is the definition of toxicity, and it's frankly quite tiring.

1 hour ago, AIex said:

If you want to drop this, stop acting superior to everyone you disagree with and that your opinion is fact.

You could've just ignored my last post, but you clearly seem to think that everyone harping against me for my  "opinion" is my fault. And stop trying to dismiss my points as just being my "opinion".

I'm trying not to be antagonistic, but all I'm getting is mockery and snide comments.

If you admit that the figures could be better (and I think we all agree they could be, that's consensus from everyone), then that's all there is to it. If you're fine with it, that's awesome! More power to you. If someone else is like "well I think it's rather poor" why go through this constant belittling and insult routine?

Every time someone says something that's remotely negative, everyone comes out of the woodwork to shut them down because "nobody else cares so shut up".

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Posted (edited)

ShGD1df.jpg

^^...lots of this going around.  For my part, I'm trying my best to not be that guy.

Edited by lowlead

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It's easy to become even more deeply entrenched in a side once a back and forth starts, and lose sight of things we actually agree about.

Someone saying that the figures are objectively not the ideal doesn't mean everyone should hate them. And someone saying that it's expected that LEGO would reuse pieces and cut corners, and that most people don't care (true or not), only backs up the notion that the figures are somewhat not ideal!

Many people could probably agree that an extra helmet or two would've been better, while disagreeing about how big of an issue the P2 helmets (and printed backpacks etc) are for their personal assessments. Objectively, parts that accurately reflect things are better; subjectively, less accurate parts are fine to a varying degree as per individual preferences.

It's also a fact that what may be a nitpick to one person is a big deal to another, and trying to talk someone out of either position is futile. In my opinion it's fun to discuss our different preferences, as long as remains civil.

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14 hours ago, ARC2149Nova said:

 I mean, would it have killed them to at the very least attempt to give Crosshair a new helmet? One with a hole, preferably. His rangefinder is critical to his character design.

I was hoping that Disney would "make" Lego make special figures since the show has succeeded and is the new animated SW that's aimed at kids. Crosshair was the perfect opportunity to make a P2 helmet with a hole for rangefinders that could be modified for later clones like Rex or Cody. It looks like Crosshair will be the main villain for the season so to mail it in with his fig shows Lego just DGAF cause they know there are people who will say "its good enough" and they'll still make their profits cause they grossly over price sets like the BB. 

Worst part is I really hate action figures so I can't even switch to Black Series even though Hasbro keeps making all the characters I/we want. 

11 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

TLDR: We have 5 new molds, 14 new characters, 3 new variants, and around 70 new prints this wave, so expecting each batch member to have a new mold might be a bit much. Crosshair probably needed one, but echo and hunter didn't.

We've also had over 10 new show announcements for future SW shows and 3 of those shows have/are airing in the last year and a half. Yes we have 5 new molds of which two should have come out last year and 14 new characters of which 10 should have come out last year with their shows (Armorer, Gar Saxon, Bo-Katan, Mandalorian Loyalist, Moff Gideon, Mortar Trooper, Hunter, Wrecker, Tech, Crosshair.) The same logic applies to the 70 new prints cause in reality Lego should have made the CW7 stuff last year and the shuttle last year too. Saying we got so much new stuff without context isn't a fair counter to fan unhappiness with lack of new main character molds. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, ARC2149Nova said:

If the figures are lackluster (and they are from an objective standpoint, compare them to Vader, Boba Fett, any of the new Mando figs) that's a reasonable statement which doesn't need to be argued over.

Each Bad Batch figure has a torso, face and leg print that perfectly resembles the character. And yet, because the helmets are slightly off and they don't all have backpacks, people are acting like they bear no resemblance to the source material, that they are all "objectively" bad? Boba Fett and every single figure in the armoury has an inaccurate helmet mold too, but you used them as positive examples as to what figures should be. I completely fail to see your internal logic.

Edited by ood0

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2 hours ago, Clone OPatra said:

Objectively, parts that accurately reflect things are better; subjectively, less accurate parts are fine to a varying degree as per individual preferences.

I'd argue that even accuracy isn't an objective measure, as the medium of LEGO is so limiting that anything 'accurate' is almost inevitably going to have to compromise somewhere, much like the debate around whether minifigure scale should be based around the height or width of figs. In some cases accuracy could even depend on which bit of source material is used. One of my pet peeves - and this isn't directed at anyone on here - is how the word objective has seemingly lost all its meaning thanks to arguments on the internet. Anyway, good points well made.

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30 minutes ago, hondohnaka said:

um…so…uh…who’s excited for LegoCon :look:

To be honest I have no expectations for it whatsoever, so maybe I'll end up pleasantly surprised. My money is on the UCS Gunship being announced there, though I'm not really interested in it so if that is the case then it'll end up being a meh from me. That said I've been pretty happy with Lego on the whole this year, mostly with the Marvel and Star Wars summer waves, so it's not like a lot is riding on LegoCon anyway. 

I have to say from what we've seen of the Light Cruiser I'm definitely liking it, but Gideon is rather disappointing.

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22 minutes ago, TeddytheSpoon said:

I'd argue that even accuracy isn't an objective measure, as the medium of LEGO is so limiting that anything 'accurate' is almost inevitably going to have to compromise somewhere, much like the debate around whether minifigure scale should be based around the height or width of figs. In some cases accuracy could even depend on which bit of source material is used. One of my pet peeves - and this isn't directed at anyone on here - is how the word objective has seemingly lost all its meaning thanks to arguments on the internet. Anyway, good points well made.

Something I've learned from optimization theory in the context of scientific or engineering computation is that there really is no such thing as an objectively best solution for any multifactorial optimization problem.  You can formulate an objective function and find the point in parameter space that corresponds to the maximum value of that objective function, but the objective function itself is a subjective thing determined by your subjective weighting of the relative importance of various factors or your subjective judgment on how to include those factors in the objective function. In short, it all comes down to personal preference, what's important to you: it's all subjective in the end!  As shown by endless arguments on the internet over trivial things ....

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55 minutes ago, hondohnaka said:

um…so…uh…who’s excited for LegoCon :look:

I guarantee all they'll reveal is a single Mandalorian set that we've already seen so I'm not getting my hopes up.

Also while I love the wave IMO there is a real problem with the BB set. These are main characters in a new popular piece of SW media and Lego should make accurate figures. If they can make a new mold for Gar Saxon (which I love) who appears for about 10 minutes total in 2 CW episodes they should be able to make a crosshair helmet with holes since he's in a 4 episode arc and a main villain in BB. 

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1 hour ago, TeddytheSpoon said:

I'd argue that even accuracy isn't an objective measure, as the medium of LEGO is so limiting that anything 'accurate' is almost inevitably going to have to compromise somewhere, 

 

42 minutes ago, icm said:

Something I've learned from optimization theory in the context of scientific or engineering computation is that there really is no such thing as an objectively best solution for any multifactorial optimization problem.  

Ok maybe I was too broad in my statement - accuracy isn't necessarily objective across the board - but in this context we've been discussing, we're talking about something that does have an obvious solution. LEGO does make specific helmets for the Star Wars line all the time, including ones that are similar to others. It's not like we're discussing something LEGO doesn't do, like create a new ultra specific hairpiece for each character.

I cannot honestly understand how anyone could truly believe a re-use of the P2 helmet, designed to match a specific, in universe design that is different to the Bad Batch's helmets, could be better than new ones.

I understand people are fine with the choice. I understand that it's ludicrous to think or expect LEGO would have made more new helmets for this set given how they operate. I understand people who just don't care very much about what they see as minute differences in helmet shapes, and prefer to focus on the great new stuff LEGO did do this wave (which I think is great too).

But I do not understand how anyone could think that using these helmets would be good even in a world where LEGO didn't constrain themselves quite as much.

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On 6/15/2021 at 5:23 PM, TeeNuggetTa said:

This may be the case in America, but due to a number of reasons, the summer 2020 wave was really hard to find on shelves in Australia. I only saw a single AAT maybe around half a dozen Anakin Jedi Interceptors and never saw the 501st battlepack despite visiting stores very frequently and even in multiple states.

I'm in Brisbane, and checked stores in Canberra, Adelaide, the Gold Coast and Lego.com and never found the 501st Battlepack in stock. The Brisbane Lego store only ever got 8-10 of the set at a time, and they were 6-8 weeks apart between deliveries. If you weren't a part of the online community you'd never have known Lego released it, same with the AAT and Duel on Bespin sets.

The last time it was this hard to get Star Wars sets was the release of the first wave of the Last Jedi sets; when the hype was huge and Rian Johnson hadn't shattered any chance of successfully marketing the Rise of Skywalker. Fortunately those sets were a lot easier to get a hold of, although I'm reticent to suggest it was because of the latent loathing of Star Wars after TLJ.

I think its a mixture of distribution issues and successful advertising on Lego's behalf. The leaks of the Mando Season 2 sets have generated pretty significant hype which is likely to bleed outside of the (relatively) niche lego star wars online community; as Disney starts to ramp up advertising for Book of Boba Fett and the season finale of the Bad Batch due to air 13 Aug 21 I think they're likely to sell a lot of Star Wars Lego across the world, including here down under. Which means scalpers will flock to the sets, EB will mark them up 20%, and Kmart will sell them 10% below RRP but never have any in stock. Kmart, Target and Big W never seem to stock the entire line any more either, which enhances scarcity.

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6 hours ago, lowlead said:

 

^^...lots of this going around.  For my part, I'm trying my best to not be that guy.

Oh how you have nailed it..

I just think the way of pulling everything down so bad is reflecting really bad on the AFOL community - even though neither here nor "outside" this would represent them.

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Spoiler

That new BB episode was incredible and my jaw dropped when I saw Cad Bane and Todo. I hope his appearance means a set with him cause the one I have has a cracked arm and I think it'd be really cool to get one with him and Omega and maybe the kaminoans who hired him. 

Also Crosshair's Imperial/Republic shuttle could be set we get him and his elite squad in cause it was featured heavily. Nevertheless I hope he gets a new Vader style armor cause he looks really badly hurt/burned/lightly incinerated.

Watch the BB episode before clicking on this cause it really is fantastic. 

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1 hour ago, kidtheboss611 said:
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That new BB episode was incredible and my jaw dropped when I saw Cad Bane and Todo. I hope his appearance means a set with him cause the one I have has a cracked arm and I think it'd be really cool to get one with him and Omega and maybe the kaminoans who hired him. 

Also Crosshair's Imperial/Republic shuttle could be set we get him and his elite squad in cause it was featured heavily. Nevertheless I hope he gets a new Vader style armor cause he looks really badly hurt/burned/lightly incinerated.

Watch the BB episode before clicking on this cause it really is fantastic. 

My biggest hopes for future Bad Batch sets are Omega which is a given, the mouth print on Echo's helmet being fixed which is moderately likely and Crosshair getting a new helmet mold because the current one really doesn't cut it, but I don't see that one happening unfortunately. Ugh, I'd even begrudgingly take a Mandalorian helmet for him, at least he'd have a rangefinder.

I agree that the Imperial shuttle from the trailers does have a good chance of being made. 

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There used to be a time when a single mold would be sufficient for stormtrooper, TIE pilot, AT-AT driver helmets, and most characters would use the same classic hair piece. And then Lego started crazy with the molds, some of them being unnecessary (tusken head). Lego is about imagination, you get blocky figures and blocky sets and use your imagination. In my opinion, even the helmet for Tech is unnecessary, he could have used the P2 clone pilot helmet, or Veers and Han could have used a standard AT-ST pilot helmets without the goggle part.

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