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LEGO Star Wars 2021 Set Discussion - READ FIRST POST!!!

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1 hour ago, jdubbs said:

I can count on one hand the number of Star Wars system set figs that have had printed arms. Would it have been nice if LEGO included the Vader with arm printing? Sure. But don't act like this is huge deviation from the norm... Beskar Mando and Vader are the exception, not the rule.

Hmm update the design of a main character then only chose to include it in some of the sets, with one being a convention exclusive... 

People have a right to be upset imo. 

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Are we sure that the three shown figs are really included in the shuttle? The blue lightsaber, the glove on the wrong hand and an not up to date Vader fig are really odd for me.

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11 minutes ago, ArrowBricks said:

Hmm update the design of a main character then only chose to include it in some of the sets, with one being a convention exclusive... 

People have a right to be upset imo

But thats happened plenty of time enough to expect it though? We've had arm printing on gredo to never be repeated, arm printing on zev senesca never to be repeated. Dual molding on hans legs never to be repeated. 

An advance in one iteration of a fig doesn't mean that that then becomes standard for a fig, no matter how much we may want it to be.

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1 hour ago, jdubbs said:

I can count on one hand the number of Star Wars system set figs that have had printed arms. Would it have been nice if LEGO included the Vader with arm printing? Sure. But don't act like this is huge deviation from the norm... Beskar Mando and Vader are the exception, not the rule.

My point is why print arms on a figure to only use it in 2 sets? I guess it’s them trying to make people buy overpriced  Death star duel set, which is basically a rerelease of a set, and not a remake. Shouldn’t have bothered printing them at all then. Fans would definitely notice this dip in quality. So they should have sticked to using Vader with printed arms in n all sets going forward.

Edited by benderisgreat

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15 minutes ago, ginja said:

But thats happened plenty of time enough to expect it though? We've had arm printing on gredo to never be repeated, arm printing on zev senesca never to be repeated. Dual molding on hans legs never to be repeated. 

An advance in one iteration of a fig doesn't mean that that then becomes standard for a fig, no matter how much we may want it to be.

True, but with the exception of Greedo those examples were from UCS/MBS sets, and even Greedo only lost his arm printing after a 10-year absence from the theme. It doesn't make sense to give Vader printed arms in a $100 retail set one year and then take them away in a $80 retail set the very next wave.

I can see why people are upset, sure arm printing isn't really standard for Star Wars, but the fact that Vader did get them only to have them taken away already and in a set that only costs $20 less is very disappointing and a clear step backwards for his minifig specifically.

Edited by BigGuy4U

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16 minutes ago, benderisgreat said:

My point is why print arms on a figure to only use it in 2 sets? I guess it’s them trying to make people buy overpriced  Death star duel set, which is basically a rerelease of a set, and not a remake. Shouldn’t have bothered printing them at all then. Fans would definitely notice this dip in quality. So they should have sticked to using Vader with printed arms in n all sets going forward.

Why did LEGO bother to create a Snowspeeder pilot torso/legs, only to revert to the Yavin pilot fig in every Hoth set of the last several years? Why did one (overpriced, underperforming) Rebels set get a proper ANH Vader torso, never to be seen again? LEGO pulls this cr@p all the time. Fans notice, sure. Kids, notsomuch.

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5 minutes ago, jdubbs said:

Why did one (overpriced, underperforming) Rebels set get a proper ANH Vader torso, never to be seen again?

Sorry to go off on a tangeant, but which one and what was special about the torso??? Curious.

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There’s a box pic of the shuttle floating around and Luke has a green lightsaber on it. It’s low res so I can’t see if Vader has arm printing or not.

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17 minutes ago, Brikkyy13 said:

There’s a box pic of the shuttle floating around and Luke has a green lightsaber on it. It’s low res so I can’t see if Vader has arm printing or not.

Are you sure that isn't just @Ashnflash's mockup?

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35 minutes ago, jdubbs said:

A-Wing vs. Vader's TIE. Inner robes print is screen-accurate to ANH, versus all the other Vader figs which are accurate to ESB/ROTJ/etc.

https://brickset.com/minifigs/sw0744/darth-vader-(white-head-rebels)

Oh, right. Interesting. I never knew that ANH had different detail to the rest. :sceptic: makes sense from the general design evolution that took place over time.

Has a set specific to ANH with Vader been released since? You could argue Death Star version could be ROTJ specific!

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13 minutes ago, Redroe said:

Has a set specific to ANH with Vader been released since? You could argue Death Star version could be ROTJ specific!

Vader's Castle should have used the ANH print, if you consider it a Rogue One set... I don't know whether the VR depiction of him in the castle used the robes over the chest plate or not. And if you want to get really anal, that freebie Vader pod, since it was supposed to be the Tantive interior.

In any event, I would not hold my breath for that torso to reappear, even if LEGO releases an ANH-specific set... any more than I would expect them to bother with new prints to get Imperial Officer rank insignias correct, or to print the backs of astromechs, or so on. Like it or not, LEGO's Star Wars line is contracting. When they see an opportunity to reuse, simplify, cut costs, etc., they're going to take it... look no further than the Mustfar Obi/Ani figs showing up in sets where they should not have.

What is maddeningly contradictory is that they will randomly spend money making inconsequential changes to figs who, by any metric, don't need updating... like the Shuttle Pilot. Don't recall anyone asking for that, and yet it somehow got budgeted as a new print. 

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12 hours ago, PreVizsla said:

Funny that you say LEGO would never do a mistake by switching a lightsaber color while every other set is heavily innacurate with huge mistakes. Starting with Darth Vader who time traveled from Mustafar back to Anakins Jedi Interceptor,AT-RT that is 4 times the size its supposed to be,mustafar obi who traveled the time to fight grievous again,Knights of Ren ship that designers thought is a tank,AAT side guns switched,they literally made entire kylo rens shuttle grey instead of black one year.

there is a HUGE difference between every single one of these "mistakes" and changing the colour of a lightsaber on a figure that has had a different coloured lightsaber for what, 20 years? Everything you've listed is either an error made due to the set being designed based on concept art rather than the final product, a choice made to realistically sell the set at the right piece count/price they're asking for, or something so minor that it's not a mistake at all, but rather laziness

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5 hours ago, Redroe said:

Was Tydirium not £80 in 2015? ?

But this one has only 589 pieces... so the PPP of 13.6 seems extremely steep.

 

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46 minutes ago, jdubbs said:

Like it or not, LEGO's Star Wars line is contracting. When they see an opportunity to reuse, simplify, cut costs, etc., they're going to take it... look no further than the Mustfar Obi/Ani figs showing up in sets where they should not have.

What irks me is that this is becoming the case despite the increase in new Star Wars content across the board and Lego’s long history with the brand. I’ll admit that the anticipation for each system scale wave every year is always exciting and something I genuinely look forward to, but hearing things like this dampens my excitement concerning the future of this theme, although I’ll refrain from jumping the gun prematurely.

Having still not built my 2018 X-Wing and TIE Fighter sets, I was considering selling them and buying the new, simplified updates. But seeing these new reviews, I think I’ll stick with the 2018 iterations. These new ones are fantastic for what they are though!

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6 hours ago, Makin Bacon said:

there is a HUGE difference between every single one of these "mistakes" and changing the colour of a lightsaber on a figure that has had a different coloured lightsaber for what, 20 years? Everything you've listed is either an error made due to the set being designed based on concept art rather than the final product, a choice made to realistically sell the set at the right piece count/price they're asking for, or something so minor that it's not a mistake at all, but rather laziness

I wouldn't even consider the AT-RT sizing an error, it's just the way that their AT-RTs are.  Minifigures are such that vehicles (not just in Star Wars, but in City or Licensed too) generally either are slightly oversized and have correct proportions relative to the vehicle itself, or are in-scale with a minifigure but have whacky proportions relative to the actual vehicle (eg: legs are the same size as the cockpit area, or in City, you can't fit multiple figures in a car unless it's really wide, and then it looks way wider than a normal car should be). 

The AT-RT in the clone battle pack from like 2010 and the Geonosis troopers one were probably the only ones that were remotely in scale, but if they put that in a $30 set, people would be equally as angry because it's not a very substantial build.   

And like I said before, I'd bet that this being a preliminary retailer image, they probably messed up the rendering and didn't change it.  It's sort of like that time a couple of years ago that they didn't photoshop out the 3x3 disks from underneath the figures on the promotional art.  They may have cut corners in places with the line but that's a way bigger oversight than giving Obi-Wan tattered robes in a set where he shouldn't have had them.

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7 hours ago, jdubbs said:

Like it or not, LEGO's Star Wars line is contracting. When they see an opportunity to reuse, simplify, cut costs, etc., they're going to take it... look no further than the Mustfar Obi/Ani figs showing up in sets where they should not have.

What is maddeningly contradictory is that they will randomly spend money making inconsequential changes to figs who, by any metric, don't need updating... like the Shuttle Pilot. Don't recall anyone asking for that, and yet it somehow got budgeted as a new print. 

Which is what I really don't understand.  I know that Star Wars allegedly isn't their main cash cow as far as licensed sales anymore, but why is it contracting this way (rhetorical question, I don't think anyone here has the answers)?  Perhaps partially due to LEGO as a brand being way stronger than it was ten or twenty years ago, so I assume it's probably easier for them to go to an IP and reach a deal (like their recent collaborations with Universal and Nintendo) and therefore just in terms of volume, you've got more properties taking away some sales from Star Wars stuff.  Ten years ago it was basically Star Wars, on-and-off Harry Potter or Batman/Super Heroes stuff, then stuff that lasted for one or two waves (Indiana Jones, Prince of Persia, Speed Racer, etc), but now there seems to be a lot more steady competition which could detract some from sales.  

But my point is that Star Wars as a brand is still very strong, perhaps at its height in terms of brand exposure (at least since the prequels came out) with the sequels and D+ having success with a flagship part being The Mandalorian that it seems a lot of non-SW fans are even invested in. 

Speaking as someone from the younger generation of Star Wars and LEGO fans, LEGO and Star Wars were almost synonymous among fans, especially from that younger demographic.  The overlap between collecting niches seems really big to me, people now collect minifigures just as much as action figures (and there's clearly a demand for a lot of rare characters, judging by secondary market prices on characters like Lando, Zeb, Ahsoka, Rex, Jango Fett, etc), and even if SW toy sales are down overall like some have suggested, the secondary market prices for a lot of retired SW sets (regardless of whether it's prequels, OT, Rebels, CW, or whatever) plus the fact that there are several new sets continuously on backorder/sold out of Shop @ Home (be it the $350 cantina or the $30 501st set) leads me to believe that the demand is still very strong.  It seems like they could very easily have a theme that could be dominating the licensed market, but for whatever reason, keep shooting themselves in the foot.

They put out two highly requested sets in the summer that, in terms of builds, realistically aren't all that incredible, but still have a ton of hype surrounding them and seem to be selling well, then put out a fantastic MBS cantina, now turn around and give us the smallest wave in a while with some good parts and some that are, frankly, pretty disappointing.  

This is a long-winded way of saying - why are they insisting on cutting costs when the brand itself is still highly, highly desirable, be it by kids, younger age AFOLs/TFOLs, or AFOLS that have been into LSW for a while?  I'm not talking about minor stuff like Vader's arm printing or whatever, to me it's more of the big-picture stuff.  If they want to reduce the size of lines, that's fine, but there isn't a massive uptick in the quality of sets that makes up for it. 

I really, honestly do like the TIE and X-Wing, but this wave is essentially four sets and only one is anything new.  I get that a "soft reset" necessitates going back to basic builds, but why not throw in one or two more location or duel sets that are at least some new scenes (Maul vs. Ahsoka?  Exegol?  You get the idea). 

Sorry, this got more ramble-y than I was initially intending.

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9 hours ago, JintaiZ said:

But this one has only 589 pieces... so the PPP of 13.6 seems extremely steep.

 

Yes seems rather at odds with the smaller/cheaper approach they're adopting.

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I'm not going to believe that they shipped RotJ Luke with a blue lightsaber unless I open the box and see it for myself. There's been the very occasional odd thing in the past, like Poggle the Lesser having a brown cane where white would've made more sense, but this will be the nineteenth (roughly) set to include that figure and all the other ones were correct. It isn't impossible that LEGO has made a mistake here, but it is highly implausible.

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5 hours ago, Kit Figsto said:

This is a long-winded way of saying - why are they insisting on cutting costs when the brand itself is still highly, highly desirable, be it by kids, younger age AFOLs/TFOLs, or AFOLS that have been into LSW for a while?  I'm not talking about minor stuff like Vader's arm printing or whatever, to me it's more of the big-picture stuff.  If they want to reduce the size of lines, that's fine, but there isn't a massive uptick in the quality of sets that makes up for it. 

I really, honestly do like the TIE and X-Wing, but this wave is essentially four sets and only one is anything new.  I get that a "soft reset" necessitates going back to basic builds, but why not throw in one or two more location or duel sets that are at least some new scenes (Maul vs. Ahsoka?  Exegol?  You get the idea). 

Sorry, this got more ramble-y than I was initially intending.

I can think of two simple explanations. Option a): they're a business, cutting costs is what they do - it doesn't matter how efficient you are, there will always be someone in accounting going 'come on, you can save another 10 cents here'... Or option b) - Covid. I can also think of a third, somewhat conspiratorial explanation (conjecture ahead)...

I know some people have joked about it before, but I do wonder if the SW budget is being cut in favour of LEGO's proprietary themes. There was a great article in Blocks mag this month explaining that the demise of themes like space, castle etc is down to how toy advertising has changed, and the recent trend is that for toy brands or IP to be a success, it has to reach into as many domains as possible. Ninjago is a great example as it's had a long-running TV show, a feature-length movie, a game based on said movie, books, comics and merch, all alongside the 'regular' advertising avenues; Monkie Kid seems to be going the same way. Obviously doing this can't be cheap, even if Ninjago has probably been worth it. I imagine that brands like Star Wars (and Harry Potter, Marvel etc.) don't need that all-guns-blazing advertising strategy because it's, well, Star Wars.

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6 hours ago, Kit Figsto said:

And like I said before, I'd bet that this being a preliminary retailer image, they probably messed up the rendering and didn't change it.  

But this isn't a preliminary image, it's a finalised advertisement in an instruction booklet. 

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6 hours ago, Kit Figsto said:

Sorry, this got more ramble-y than I was initially intending

Snipped almost all your post and don't have time to reply as enthusiastically as I would like but have an upvote.

 

1 hour ago, TeddytheSpoon said:

t I do wonder if the SW budget is being cut in favour of LEGO's proprietary themes. There was a great article in Blocks mag this month explaining that the demise of themes like space, castle etc is down to how toy advertising has changed, and the recent trend is that for toy brands or IP to be a success, it has to reach into as many domains as possible. Ninjago is a great example as it's had a long-running TV show, a feature-length movie, a game based on said movie, books, comics and merch, all alongside the 'regular' advertising avenues; Monkie Kid seems to be going the same way. Obviously doing this can't be cheap, even if Ninjago has probably been worth it. I imagine that brands like Star Wars (and Harry Potter, Marvel etc.) don't need that all-guns-blazing advertising strategy because it's, well, Star Wars.

Good for lego if that's the case. Like @Kit Figsto said, for many of us my age (30) lego and Star Wars are almost interchangeable terms. In the early 00's Star wars lego was lego. But if they are now in the position to do what they do best, then they should do that. Kids have many more demands for their attention than I did when i was a kid, most of it on their phones, and more 'big' franchise moneyspinners like Marvel. The lego Star Wars sets are often truly spectacular and high quality, but as by necessity a faithful reproduction of movie ships, they are kind of dry compared to Lego's original output like ninjago which shows real imaginative flair.

So yes. Wouldn't be surprised if TLG have wised up to this and are not so much cutting back on the SW line as refocusing it. They know a growing portion of the market is AFOLs who will buy ucs/mbs/18+. They can afford to slim down the system scale releases if it means selling more copies of fewer sets to more kids, less expensively, instead of cranking out crap like Duel on Mustafar because they have to fill a certain price slot on a release wave.

Edited by Redroe
Tpyo.

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I'm going to try and be optimistic and say the reason this first wave seems a bit lacklustre in the figure department is because the 2021 budget is mostly being used for the 2HY. Why they would use print budget on new X-Wing and Imperial Shuttle Pilot designs that nobody asked for is beyond me; sure some collectors will have to have these new variants so that will make them buy the set, but Dodanna will sell the X-Wing, so I would have used those two print budgets to make two new figs for the Shuttle (no new pieces required) and you then arguably have a set that will sell far better even to AFOLS and collectors. But Lego works in mysterious ways. However, i the 2HY is as thin on new figures then clearly there is a budget cut.

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At first I wasn’t a fan of the new TIE and I loved the look of the X-Wing, after seeing the reviews my opinions have flipped.

The TIE fighter is almost perfect, I think the cockpit is a little bit out of scale with the wings but as a toy it is fine. Nice figure selection though I would’ve liked to see two stormtroopers instead of one, and of course I would prefer the old helmet mould so that it isn’t oversized and so the trooper can actually turn it’s head. I like how easily the wings detach, now if only we could get an “exploding” function like the old Kenner toys.

The X-Wing looks nice but it is honestly disappointing. Floppy wings and no retractable landing gear are a massive disappointment. Not a bad first attempt at downsizing but there’s a lot of room for improvement. At the end of the day I’m still happy that we got this smaller version, this is something that we’ve all wanted for a while. No doubt the inevitable rerelease will fix the issues. 

It’s going to be a pass on these two sets for me, but I do hope the cheaper price makes it more accessible to other buyers. 

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3 hours ago, BacktoBricks said:

I'm going to try and be optimistic and say the reason this first wave seems a bit lacklustre in the figure department is because the 2021 budget is mostly being used for the 2HY. Why they would use print budget on new X-Wing and Imperial Shuttle Pilot designs that nobody asked for is beyond me; sure some collectors will have to have these new variants so that will make them buy the set, but Dodanna will sell the X-Wing, so I would have used those two print budgets to make two new figs for the Shuttle (no new pieces required) and you then arguably have a set that will sell far better even to AFOLS and collectors. But Lego works in mysterious ways. However, i the 2HY is as thin on new figures then clearly there is a budget cut.

That’s not how cost accounting works! Focusing their product line on the most expensive item could lead to a death spiral where overheads are applied to the detriment of all products. Without knowing the except amounts figures and pieces cost to produce against the expected volume of sales, it is nebulous to discuss the cost of a minifig in a set relative to other products.

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