JopieK

Trains in 4-Wide

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Posted (edited)

Not sure if I should create a new thread for this but I've started so I'll finish!

As I said I earlier (2 posts back) I was going to order a Circuit Cubes motor and try to motorise my 4-wide model.

The Circuit Cubes Bluetooth set arrived today, so I had a go at building an 0-4-0 train chassis to see how it all works and if it has the power to drive a loco on narrow gauge track with/without any rolling stock behind.

Here is my first crude attempt.

51991413480_55905eda87_c.jpg Side view

51990912738_e40327c9a1_c.jpg Under view

51991413350_44c7ca0d1b_c.jpg Front view

I had to use two motors, one didn't really have enough power.  I've tried to minimise any transmission loss by connecting each motor almost directly to the axle.  A couple of videos, one as "light engine" and one pulling a coach.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194726814@N08/51989867092/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194726814@N08/51991139174/in/dateposted-public/

This test is a challenge with the R24 narrow gauge track curves and the 4 axle coach.

My thoughts so far:

  • Like a dog walking on hind legs, the wonder is that it walks at all!
  • This is showing max speed so it's a bit slow but maybe not unlike real narrow gauge locos(!) - I'll try and work out the scale speed.
  • The loco slows down considerably pulling the coach, understandably.  I doubt it could pull more than two coaches of this size, but I will test it later.
  • However although it is slow there is not much difference in speed on the straights versus the curves, which was a pleasant surprise.
  • The motors were not as noisy as I had been led to believe, no worse than Lego train motor really.
  • The motors as positioned are only two studs wide so no problem hiding those in a 4-wide body shell, but the Bluetooth receiver/battery box will be quite tricky to hide.

Not a bad start.

I did most of the test in "battery mode" where you just switch on the Circuit Cubes controller and off it goes at full speed.

I did have a go at setting up a custom controller in the Circuit Cubes app.  I didn't spend long on this, so the simplest way I found to drive two motors at once (they were on ports A and C) was something like this.

51990912593_3977bc04dc_c.jpg

There is a coding option but I haven't found any instructions for that so far.

Edited by idlemarvel
replaced video links, added list item on noise

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nice one! i think another problem is traction which will be solved with adding the locos body.

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18 hours ago, idlemarvel said:

Not sure if I should create a new thread for this but I've started so I'll finish!

As I said I earlier (2 posts back) I was going to order a Circuit Cubes motor and try to motorise my 4-wide model.

The Circuit Cubes Bluetooth set arrived today, so I had a go at building an 0-4-0 train chassis to see how it all works and if it has the power to drive a loco on narrow gauge track with/without any rolling stock behind.

Here is my first crude attempt.

Very efficient build in terms of parts and space. The motors are very powerful given their size. My CircuitCubes powered steam elephant has a single motor in it and pulls three cars (light, but high friction technic axle wheels)

 

18 hours ago, idlemarvel said:

51991413480_55905eda87_c.jpg

If you want to use a single port on the blue cube, you can power the motors serially, running a wire out of the side of one motor and into the next.

 

18 hours ago, idlemarvel said:

The motors as positioned are only two studs wide so no problem hiding those in a 4-wide body shell, but the Bluetooth receiver/battery box will be quite tricky to hide.

The most obvious solution would be to use tiles (taking the model to almost 5 wide) or you might be able to hide it behind 1x4x3 panels (especially the older unreinforced versions) but getting the half plate spacing would be very tricky. Maybe hide it in a boxcar and use large flags for the doors

2525.png

 

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Thanks @zephyr1934 that tip about wiring the motors in series from one port will make it a lot easier to control.

Ref hiding the cube, my model is already 4 + 2 x tiles wide (so not strictly speaking 4 wide) so hiding with tiles is probably the way I will go.

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continuing the mariazellerbahn trains here is the train that replaced the 1099: the himmelstreppe or heavens stair.

Himmelstreppe sightseeing car

panoramawagen-in-goesing.jpg

these are panoramic sightseeing cars attached to the train. most difficult part was getting the wheels (contrary to the original only 2 axles instead of 4 for aestetics sake) to dissapear under the wagons. 90% of the wagon is actually built upside down with the exception of the roof.

himmelstreppe-in-der-landschaft.jpg

Himmelstreppe middle car

this is the main units middle car: it is built similarly to the panoramic car except it has even more snot in it. especially the door was just a snot nightmare. i havent built the ends yet as i didnt have the motivation for them yet. door area of this one needs to be improved aswell as the white streches all the way to the bottom of the car on the original. more details could also be added to the roof area where the pantographs sit.

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Brilliantly done. To get the right number and size of windows in this scale is quite an achievement.

As I am a beginner, can you explain why you needed to build 90% upside down?

Are the wheels able to articulate? With that length of wheelbase I don't think it would go around R24 curves. Or is it a display model?

Again, great models.

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the upside down building was necessary in order to make the wheels dissapear by the use of upside down panels. i experimented with articulating wheels but they never looked quite good as they need space to articulate and there isnt any in this model. i doubt this could go around r24 curves because of it. if you tracks from someone like trixbricks.eu with wider radii you could get this to work just fine. but it is more of a display model anyways and something to challenge myself as i love to fit way to much stuff and detail in a way to small package. that is the fun for me. building giant 8 wide models - everyone can do that. but building 4 wide small models? thats another art by itself

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Thanks @XG BC for your very clear explanation. 

I'm not sure everyone can build 8 wide models, but I do agree that modelling 4 wide trains is an art form!

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made some minor adjustments to the middle car:

Himmelstreppe mittelwagen v2

and started work on the conductors car but i am not finished yet. end design is never my strongpoint to be honest.

Himmelstreppe steuerwagen wip

 

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16 hours ago, XG BC said:

building giant 8 wide models - everyone can do that.

No. I can't. For sure.

On that scale, detailing is central. In 4-wide, it is abstracting. Two - more or less - almost diametral - approaches (or preferences ;)).

Best,
Thorsten 

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15 hours ago, Toastie said:

No. I can't. For sure.

On that scale, detailing is central. In 4-wide, it is abstracting. Two - more or less - almost diametral - approaches (or preferences ;)).

Best,
Thorsten 

if you look at it that way yea you are correct i guess. i was comming from more of a building details in 8 wide is easier but yes you have to abstract more than you do in 8 wide so they both have their difficulties.

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if anyone wants to do the front of my himmelstreppe the studio files are available in my signature. feel free to do so as i have no clue on how to do it.

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On 4/9/2022 at 4:37 PM, idlemarvel said:

Thanks @zephyr1934 that tip about wiring the motors in series from one port will make it a lot easier to control.

Ref hiding the cube, my model is already 4 + 2 x tiles wide (so not strictly speaking 4 wide) so hiding with tiles is probably the way I will go.

I have started building a motor block with battery and hub inside my 4-wide RhB Ge 2/4 shown earlier.

52022793602_e2efd20f35_c.jpg

I needed to rebuild my prototype motor block to be one stud longer.  So far I have used 4262 Technic, Plate 1 x 6 with Toothed Ends to hold the drive wheels in place but I have since tried 32063 Technic, Liftarm Thin 1 x 6 which gives a much stronger connection.  I may have to switch to 5L Technic axle as the wheels keep coming free from the Technic Plates / Liftarms.

52024083399_eb61128c71_c.jpg

The whole body rests on a 2 x 4 plate between the two motors (circled in yellow).  I will have to rebuild the entire body to fit around the motors and Circuit Cube hub/battery box. At the moment the hub/battery box is at one end of the loco, but to hide that behind tiles means I lose the door features, so I may have to move it between the motors, or lose one of the motors.  I'm reluctant to lose a motor because that would mean only one powered axle, but to keep two motors with the cube in between I may have to move the drive axles another stud further apart.

The pony trucks pivot on more Technic Liftarms held on place by the drive shaft from the motors.

52024346545_bf03836405_c.jpg

The loco as it stands runs around the test track nicely, but I haven't finished the motor train design yet.

 

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1 hour ago, idlemarvel said:

I have started building a motor block with battery and hub inside my 4-wide RhB Ge 2/4 shown earlier.

52022793602_e2efd20f35_c.jpg

That is an amazingly space efficient design the way you nest the battery connectors around the  motor. I also like how you incorporated the door rails to keep the tiles even with the base.

For the wheels, can you slip a half bushing on the main axles too? So it is: wheel, bevel gear, half bushing, full bushing, wheel

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looks awesome! good job integrating it into the built.

i have now finished my himmelstreppe:

Himmelstreppe steuerwagen done

i have built the front like this. it is not 100% prototypical but i can live with it.

here is the complete train:

Himmelstreppe complete

as always the studio files can be found in the link in my signature!

hope you like it.

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continuing with my series on the mariazellerbahn here is the 5090 diesel train which was used on a branchline of the mariazellerbahn, the "krumpe" and is used on the lower portion of the mariazellerbahn.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Waldviertel_schmalspur_02.jpg#/media/Datei:Waldviertel_schmalspur_02.jpg

reihe 5090

i am not entirely happy with this one. it is missing some roof detailing.

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Hi :) I've been looking into building trains in this really fun scale. Which do you reckon is the best wheel/bogie design?

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while not strictly 4 wide it is still interesting. one of the first ever electric locomotives. it was produced by siemens & halske (now just siemens) and was as i stated previously one of the first elektric locomotives. it  was run on the gewerbeausstellung 1879 in berlin to demonstrate the use of electric traction in locomotives. it carried three cars with 6 passengers each and got its electricity from two flat iron bars (insulated from the rails ofcourse) with a voltage of 150v. the locomotive was built around the electric motors (you can see the windings outside of the locomotive).

picture of the original during the exibition:

First_electric_locomotive,_built_in_1879

now in a museum (not sure if it is the original or a rebuild):

1879_Siemens_&_Halske_Wernerwerk_Electri

now onto the model:

first electric locomotive train

the wagons where not easy to build with their organic round form.

first electric locomotive

the locomotive was a lot easier to build as it is quite boxy with few round shapes.

hope you like the model and the backstroy to it. some people did the first practical steam engine, the rocket and i felt i needed to do the same just with the electric locomotive.

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History lesson and a good representation in 4-wide. Thanks for sharing.

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now it is time for another history lesson: after the locomotive i showed you before the siemens company built a fully electric mining locomotive that was used in a coal mine to demonstrate the use of electrical traction in a high stress industrial enviroment. enough talking here is a photo of the prototype:

Siemens_mining_locomotive_001.jpg

as you can see it is very similar to the locomotive that siemens used at the "gewerbeausstellung". the only real difference besides the size and drivers position is the fact that this one used overhead powerrails as the source of electricity. this can be seen by the cables going into the locomotive. for a better view here is a picture that depicts the loco in operation:

dorothea.jpg

in the picture the loco still has panels that cover the locos inner workings

here is the model of the loco without covers:

first electric mining locomotive open

i tried recreating the picture as best as i could. ofcourse it being black and white didnt help.

first electric mining locomotive closed

here it is with the covers on. i dont know the color that they used but from pictures of the museum piece there is a green-ish color visible.

hope you like yet another history lesson

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