LEGO Ideas Comes Through - The Train Station: Studgate

[caiman0637]

56 minutes ago, OTIS_0937 said:

That's old news get the fishing boat or as I like to call it "Anton's Fishing Boat"

Old news? It's just as old as the fishing boat. I should mention that hijacking threads is frowned upon, though I suppose you could create a new thread...

Edited March 19, 2021 by caiman0637

[Bartosz]

5 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

It's effectively a large Bricks and Pieces order with digital instructions included, all prepaid

Then it'd be awesome to have this program outside of IDEAS. Suppose someone builds a collection of coaches/wagons - something that's mentioned often that lego could return to making sets like that but it's not profitable for them. 

Then the "kickstarter" phase begins, all train heads order it and everyone is happy;)

[Feuer Zug]

I understand this is a way for LEGO to test the waters using BrickLink to sell some rejected Ideas concepts. If the crowd funding path pans out, we may see more of these as a way to let overlooked Ideas sets come to semi-official build status. Yes, LEGO is restricting the designers to in production parts and colors, but that is still a considerable selection to work from. As mentioned, it is basically a MOC parts listing and instructions or Bricks and Pieces parts order all setup in one tidy package. I'm cool with that. I got the firetruck from the original BrickLink crowd funding scheme and had no issues with it. Yes, I'm interested in more than Traingate. The Castle in the Forest, Pursuit of Flight, and Anatomini are on my list as well. Perhaps if the castle does well, LEGO might see it as an option for the future too. The theme did well in the lasted vote.

[zephyr1934]

9 hours ago, Bartosz said:

Then it'd be awesome to have this program outside of IDEAS. Suppose someone builds a collection of coaches/wagons - something that's mentioned often that lego could return to making sets like that but it's not profitable for them. 

Then the "kickstarter" phase begins, all train heads order it and everyone is happy;)

And I bet this is also Lego testing the waters to see if they have the capacity to start offering small run, pack-on-demand sets. I think Lego is trying to get to the point where they can support niche sets. They can't take everything on ideas and turn it into a set because they need a lego designer in the loop, but if this works well it could become fairly common for ideas submissions to become small run sets (including trains). Lego Factory 2.0 if you will.

[SD100]

Not that LEGO would ever get to this point, but I could see this program enabling a lot more possibility of something like Tube Map Central has been asking for. I'm going on my assumption that smaller sets will do a lot better in this model than $200 & $300+ sets. If you put a $100 locomotive on here it'd probably sell much more than 3000, and quickly. Once the locomotive is out there, put a car or coach or two car set out to match and almost everyone who bought the locomotive is going to be buying multiple copies right away.

Of course if it's only things that have filtered through IDEAS this could never happen, but if they see the success of lower dollar value sets on this I think they will, maybe we can have some of our hopes fulfilled.

SD

[ALCO]

This has probably already been pointed that the train station they picked has an issue with track spacing. The tracks are too close together for their standard geometry. The track needs to be 8 studs apart from sleeper end to sleeper end not two.

[Merlict]

11 hours ago, SD100 said:

Of course if it's only things that have filtered through IDEAS this could never happen

I mean I'd say that if you can't even get 10k votes on Ideas (Big difference than actually putting your money down for an order!) then your set just isn't that popular or in demand 

[Black Knight]

Politics aside: Are there two studs space between the tracks inside the station? And (seriously) how would I come from 8 stud space between my tracks to two?

[Stuartn]

18 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Politics aside: Are there two studs space between the tracks inside the station? And (seriously) how would I come from 8 stud space between my tracks to two?

I suppose a lot of flex track could work, which could be enhanced through using one straight or curved track between them

[Black Knight]

Oops. There is a product on the market from Jie Star already since at least January; if you have strong morals, consider yourself warned:

https://customizeminifiguresintelligence.wordpress.com/2021/01/11/reviews-on-jie-star-89104-european-style-railway-station-stolen-lego-ideas-the-train-station-studgate/

[LegoDW]

See TLG is returning pre purchase funds if not hitting target during crowd funding stage.  Does this also apply during the design review?  Basically is TLG going to refund everyone's money if the do not produce the set?

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by LegoDW
Miss understood terms

[dr_spock]

On 3/20/2021 at 9:55 AM, LegoDW said:

See TLG is returning pre purchase funds if not hitting target during crowd funding stage.  Does this also apply during the design review?  Basically is TLG going to refund everyone's money if the do not produce the set?

 

What do the terms and conditions on the funding page say?   Is it up somewhere to read?

 

[NickLafreniere]

I think the train station is nice and all but will probably cost around $500 so I'm out :P Good luck to those who do scoop up this set as well as the other sets!

[UltraViolet]

On 3/20/2021 at 7:34 AM, Black Knight said:

Oops. There is a product on the market from Jie Star already since at least January; if you have strong morals, consider yourself warned:

https://customizeminifiguresintelligence.wordpress.com/2021/01/11/reviews-on-jie-star-89104-european-style-railway-station-stolen-lego-ideas-the-train-station-studgate/

  The brick-built track is a curious touch.  Not necessarily practical for anything other than static display, but it did get my mind working on where it, or some part of the theory, could be used.  Some flavor of a rubber-tired metro train comes to mind.

  I like the IDEAS set, whether or not there is a track geometry issue.  The trains in both the original and the Jie Star rip-off are more interesting to me though. I'd really like to see more models that represent modern day urban EMU or subway vehicles.  Many of these systems in Europe have very old stations and infrastructure with modern trains now running on them, plus some of these have narrow loading gauges which often feature narrower track centers.

  In my home country of Canada, there is a rubber-tired metro system in Montreal with narrow loading gauge and close tracks, primarily because the system was designed to efficiently fit into single-bore tunnel, since much of it would have to be deep-bore though bedrock.  This system was inspired by, and very similar to, the rubber-tire conversion metro lines in Paris, although the Montreal system was built much later:

  Montreal Metro - Two MR-73 trains at Plamondon station. (source -  Wikipedia)

[koraldon]

Looks nice, but the added train and brick track seems superfluous - Just adding to the piece count, pretty sure most AFOL who will get this have enough trains as is. 

[ivanlan9]

@UltraViolet Do the Montreal subway tires still produce the first three notes of Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man" on startup?  When I was there many years ago in the 80s, I was struck by the, to me, quite noticeable sounds.  I assumed that the notes happened because of the pattern of the tires rumbling on the pavement, and also because the controller for the traction motors had distinct "notches" that had the property of dividing the speed of the train into quanta rather than an analog sound.  Sorry if my explanation is unclear, but if you had ever heard it it might be clear!

Metta,

Ivan

[UltraViolet]

7 hours ago, ivanlan9 said:

@UltraViolet Do the Montreal subway tires still produce the first three notes of Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man" on startup?  When I was there many years ago in the 80s, I was struck by the, to me, quite noticeable sounds.  I assumed that the notes happened because of the pattern of the tires rumbling on the pavement, and also because the controller for the traction motors had distinct "notches" that had the property of dividing the speed of the train into quanta rather than an analog sound.  Sorry if my explanation is unclear, but if you had ever heard it it might be clear!

Metta,

Ivan

  I am the right person to answer your question properly about this, and to straighten out the technical terminology .  While I'm a transit fan in general, as a sound engineer in the past, and as someone who likes to understand how things work, I am always as interested in the sounds a particular transit vehicle produces and why.  I've also actually had the opportunity to visit Montreal and ride the entire Metro system.  The technology of this system fascinates me from the standpoint that it is mechanically excessively complicated - 16 rubber tires (8 load/8 guidance) and eight flanged metal wheels per individual car for a total of 24!  Multiply that by nine cars, and you get 216 wheels per train!!!  (And LEGO train builders think they have a friction problem...)  It rides on two concrete tread strips, has two guidance rails that double as power rails, and also two backup running rails in case a tire blows out (the metal wheel falls into contact with the metal rail in this event).  Even with all that it still relies on the metal wheels and traditional rail track switches to change route.  The tires give a noisy and bouncy ride, while generating stifling heat in the trains and stations.  The only benefit I can see in this system is better traction, meaning it can accelerate and brake faster and climb steeper hills than a rail-only train.

  The operational three-tone sound you mentioned is related only to the second generation of trains, the MR-73.  This is an audible byproduct of the DC chopper propulsion control on these trains, which in a sense is like the PWM motor drive method which LEGO uses, but only to get the train up to a certain speed before full power is applied to the motors, which then continue to accelerate.  In other words, the power through the motors is reduced by the chopper circuit until the effort required to continue acceleration won't overload them.  The technology of the time period meant that some of the frequency steps used to perform the initial acceleration sequence were audible.  The sequence actually used five frequencies - 90, 120, 180, 240 and 360 Hz.  The first two were too low to hear normally, so everyone latched onto the pattern of the remaining three, the musical significance of which appears to be purely coincidental.

  The earlier MR-63 trains used a mechanical camshaft controller with rheostatic (switched resistance) starting, so all you heard on them was a clicking of the camshaft switch contacts as it progressed through the sequence.  There were, however, two sets of MR-63 three-car units which had prototype chopper controllers installed in them, one from each of two manufacturers.  The version supplied by Canron-Jeumont featured the same frequency steps as on the later production MR-73, but distinctly louder, meaning the first two frequency steps were clearly audible also.  There is a YouTube video which features this distinctive prototype in service, the middle three cars of this nine-car train, and you can clearly hear all five frequency steps blaringly loudly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEa-zzlhn2Q

  The 'violent' intensity of the 90 Hz is particularly amusing.  I hadn't seen that video before, so many thanks for prompting me to happen across it!  It is quite captivating to me, given my specific interest.  Sadly, all the MR-63 trains have been retired since my last visit.  Thankfully I did have the opportunity to ride them a few times, including the manually-driven ones on the Yellow Line.

  The MR-73 trains with the chopper control as standard are still in service however.  After two prior attempts by the STM at adding a suitable door-closing warning chime, the well known and loved 180/240/360 Hz 'musical' chopper sequence was adopted as the version which survives to this day, affectionately known locally as the "Metro dou-dou-dou".  They carefully made the synthesized recorded sound just different enough from the actual train sound to ensure that visually impared people wouldn't confuse the two and try to rush the seemingly closing doors of a train already in motion.  (This version also lives on as the door chime on the new MPM-10 "Azure" trains from Bombardier.  The MR-63's never had a chime - the doors simply suddenly closed at scheduled departure time without any warning at all!).  When riding an MR-73 now, it's kinda weird having the door chime sound, followed immediately by the same tones from the chopper circuit as the train pulls away, but it's such a pleasing sound you can hardly complain.  There is plenty worse out there in the world, especially many of the early AC-drives.  The craziest I feel has to be the 'demonic growl' of the ART Mark I linear induction motor trains in Toronto, Vancouver, and also Detroit in the USA.

  Perhaps a much longer-winded answer than you were asking for, but I appreciated the opportunity.  I think I loosely tied in some relevance to LEGO there somewhere...

[zephyr1934]

18 hours ago, ivanlan9 said:

Do the Montreal subway tires still produce the first three notes of Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man" on startup?

That is hilarious...

9 hours ago, UltraViolet said:

I am the right person to answer your question properly about this, and to straighten out the technical terminology .  While I'm a transit fan in general, as a sound engineer in the past, and as someone who likes to understand how things work, I am always as interested in the sounds a particular transit vehicle produces and why. 

... and that exponentially more so. Very interesting stuff.

[dr_spock]

12 hours ago, UltraViolet said:

  I am the right person to answer your question properly about this, and to straighten out the technical terminology . 

...

  Perhaps a much longer-winded answer than you were asking for, but I appreciated the opportunity.  I think I loosely tied in some relevance to LEGO there somewhere...

Fascinating.  I rode the Metro every day and never gave any thought to the door closing sounds.  The heat generated by the rubber tires is a whoosh of warm air on station platform during Montreal winters.  

I suppose one could put the Metro sounds into their PFx Brick as a tie-in to LEGO trains. 

 

[Feuer Zug]

I have always been partial to the sound of traction motors of the ÖBB ES 64U Taurus locomotives on startup.

Back on topic, the price point will probably be up there given the piece count. The track separation will entail modification to the station or fun with flexi-track. I can handle either.

[UltraViolet]

45 minutes ago, Feuer Zug said:

I have always been partial to the sound of traction motors of the ÖBB ES 64U Taurus locomotives on startup.

Back on topic, the price point will probably be up there given the piece count. The track separation will entail modification to the station or fun with flexi-track. I can handle either.

  That's cool!  The Taurus kinda plays through every note in an octave due to the need for a more drawn-out acceleration sequence as required by the massively higher weight of a railroad train vs EMU/transit.  Same theory though.

  On topic, track separation/loading guage on European railroads, and especially often on urban commuter/transit lines, is generally narrower than on North American systems, so this station model is an appropriate representation of many prototypes.  Whether LEGO insists on being a stickler for "System" geometry in a build that isn't even operational and is not a direct corporate set from the normal LEGO line, remains to be seen.  It makes for a great architectural display model or component of a static city scene no matter what.  If I want to modify it to "System" functionality, I am perfectly happy to use this set as a starting point for customization.  The critical thing is getting the bulk of the parts made available in one box, particularly if it's going to need that many garage door pieces.

[zephyr1934]

It is still unfortunate that the first prospective train station aimed at AFOLs is not even compatible with the standard track geometry. So that means you either have to completely rebuild it, go through some serious track contortions, or not use your full station.

[Lord Insanity]

To be fair it is likely that anyone with the space for two loops of track probably would want 2 or 3 copies of the station to make it long enough anyway.  If  a person only wants (or can afford) one copy of the station they could always use the second track as a static display for the included train and only run one powered train through the other track.  It's not ideal but it is better than the nothing we otherwise have.

[*thomas*]

In the 80s, 12V trains had this geometry. It's not that it wouldn't work, it will just need some good timing and avoid trains passing each other on this stretch of track. 

[NickLafreniere]

I only looked at all the pics just now and have noticed the included train, which uses some expensive train wheels that only drive up the cost even more. I'm not too confident this will make the top 13...If it's going to cost $400-600, I could MOC my own station exactly how I want for probably cheaper than that.