AbleChristopher

The Mercury - New York Central #4915 K-5b with Henry Dreyfuss streamlining

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Hello! I wanted to share with you all my most recent build,The New York Central K-5b Pacific Class 4-6-2 #4915 with Henry Dreyfuss' streamline design, otherwise known as The Mercury. The model is 8-wide and is designed to fit all standard lego track geometry.

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That's incredible! The streamlining looks really nice and I like the SNOT window technique.

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37 minutes ago, caiman0637 said:

Wow, this looks amazing! Did you have to modify any pieces? 

Thank you! No actually, all pieces are standard lego pieces.

24 minutes ago, Pdaitabird said:

That's incredible! The streamlining looks really nice and I like the SNOT window technique.

I appreciate the kind words, the cab windows had a few revisions to say the least haha.

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13 minutes ago, AbleChristopher said:

No actually, all pieces are standard lego pieces.

Wow, I haven't seen many trains that achieve that. Great job!

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1 hour ago, Glenn Holland said:

Nice job on this streamliner! It looks great.

Thank you Glenn, I am a big fan of your builds, specifically the Buffalo Creek #13 and the NYC L-2a Mohawk. My next build will be a Baldwin 2-6-6-2t, specifically the U.S. Plywood Corp. #11, and you better believe those two will be held as examples of prime piping and valve gear assemblies.

 

11_oct2004_1.jpg

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2 hours ago, dr_spock said:

Very nice. :thumbup:   Is it motorized?

 

The model has room for two medium motors within the boiler and a battery pack and receiver within the tender (tender roof is removable).

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Posted (edited)

I don't even get a slight shout-out? All you had to do was just say 'thanks to Steamsewnempire for working out 95 percent of the body-shaping design, which I faithfully copied.'

These forums.

R10kuav.gif

I'm done uploading projects. I expect people to imitate me - it's the nature of Lego. I also, however, expect credit to be given where it is due.

Edited by SteamSewnEmpire

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52 minutes ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

I don't even get a slight shout-out? All you had to do was just say 'thanks to Steamsewnempire for working out 95 percent of the body-shaping design, which I faithfully copied.'

These forums.

I'm done uploading projects. I expect people to imitate me - it's the nature of Lego. I also, however, expect credit to be given where it is due.

Hey SteamSewnEmpire, I hate to see things go this way, I really like your model as well. I did a lot of research for this project and I wont pretend that I didn't see your post on here, just like I saw posts by many Lego creators building all kinds of streamlined designs. I guess all I can say is that we modeled the same thing, and when trying to replicate a streamlined locomotive with non-modified lego pieces there is only so many you can pull from for the locomotive exterior, especially since the real Mercury's shroud is in sectioned plating like we've both modeled. If you look at the front of the locomotive, the pilot truck, drivers, valve gear, trailing truck, cab and so on however, there are clear distinct differences which would of course require different internals. Counting pieces it looks like mine is shorter too and obviously the tenders are quite different. We also have different designs to address the handling of lego curves, which requires a different internal frame and so on...so yeah like I said, I do like your model, and by posting my attempt at this build I didn't mean to squash yours.

Cheers

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, AbleChristopher said:

Hey SteamSewnEmpire, I hate to see things go this way, I really like your model as well. I did a lot of research for this project and I wont pretend that I didn't see your post on here, just like I saw posts by many Lego creators building all kinds of streamlined designs. I guess all I can say is that we modeled the same thing, and when trying to replicate a streamlined locomotive with non-modified lego pieces there is only so many you can pull from for the locomotive exterior, especially since the real Mercury's shroud is in sectioned plating like we've both modeled. If you look at the front of the locomotive, the pilot truck, drivers, valve gear, trailing truck, cab and so on however, there are clear distinct differences which would of course require different internals. Counting pieces it looks like mine is shorter too and obviously the tenders are quite different. We also have different designs to address the handling of lego curves, which requires a different internal frame and so on...so yeah like I said, I do like your model, and by posting my attempt at this build I didn't mean to squash yours.

Cheers

Yes, I can see that your model is inferior in several distinct ways. However, you can call the titan arum by whatever name you like - the stinky rose remains plagiarism. This is not a case of "I did independent research and just happened to stumble onto the same brick alignment as you in every complex geometric shape on the locomotive" - you took the screenshots I posted, hunkered down, and spent many hours laboring to copy my work, then conveniently failed to credit me in what turned out to be your first post ever on the forum. Just amazing how lightning just strikes like that, eh? I worked for a solid week to achieve that something that you conveniently stumbled onto in one try. Man, coincidences. What astonishing things they are.

For all that, you fell short, clearly, in certain areas - such as the chintzy terraced downslope at the front of the boiler, and the way that the cab and the running boards don't actually align (having the cab 8w and the running boards 9w makes for a 9w locomotive, btw) - but, make no mistake: your magnum-opus-first-postus is the fruit of nobody's tree but my own.

Cheers.

 

Edited by SteamSewnEmpire

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2 hours ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

Yes, I can see that your model is inferior in several distinct ways. However, you can call the titan arum by whatever name you like - the stinky rose remains plagiarism. This is not a case of "I did independent research and just happened to stumble onto the same brick alignment as you in every complex geometric shape on the locomotive" - you took the screenshots I posted, hunkered down, and spent many hours laboring to copy my work, then conveniently failed to credit me in what turned out to be your first post ever on the forum. Just amazing how lightning just strikes like that, eh? I worked for a solid week to achieve that something that you conveniently stumbled onto in one try. Man, coincidences. What astonishing things they are.

For all that, you fell short, clearly, in certain areas - such as the chintzy terraced downslope at the front of the boiler, and the way that the cab and the running boards don't actually align (having the cab 8w and the running boards 9w makes for a 9w locomotive, btw) - but, make no mistake: your magnum-opus-first-postus is the fruit of nobody's tree but my own.

Cheers.

 

I have to level with you. His is better than yours first and foremost because it is actually built. Your design looks good but the fact he used a couple of the same parts you did while also clearly using a lot of his own ideas is how it works in LEGO. there are only a few ways to create some shapes so the execution is to be expected to be the same. Add in the fact it navigates LEGO track with all that beautiful cowling makes it very impressive. 

I have seen you on here for years being a general snob about all things trains but to what end? You dont even like building LEGO because it "hurts your hands", nor have you ever once showed that any of your designs are actually buildable, let alone look as good in the brick. 

Why are you here? What is your goal? Is it to just troll all of us? You act all mighty train builder but where is your proof? In your mercury thread you ask basic questions about powering models and gearing. Happy to see you got the help you needed, but at the same time, that same lack of basic knowledge doesnt reinforce that you are the god of LEGO trains. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, supertruper1988 said:

I have to level with you. His is better than yours first and foremost because it is actually built. 

Ah, the fallback. Well, you are nothing if not true to form.

I can only pound this into your head so many times: it makes literally no difference if a model is built or not. Moreover, it's like comparing a draftsman to a welder - so the little builder can snap bricks together. Bravo. I wonder what the going rate on such a talent is? If I pulled up next to the nearest 7-eleven and waved down an itinerant, do you think I could convince him to do the deed for sub-minimum wage? "Hola! Tu letrero dice que pintas paredes. Puedo convencerte de que construyas un modelo de Lego en su lugar?"

The art is in melding design with engineering, while keeping proportions as true as possible to the original - not in construction. Period. End of story.

And don't even begin to lecture me about making the thing run. There are only so many ways you can skin a cat - the internals of a Lego locomotive are not deep space rocket science; we're dealing with a dozen gears and a handful of motors. Achieving the proper shape and scale of the engine utilizing the extremely limited parts available is the challenge. Because the guts of these things only vary by degrees.

Quote

Why are you here? What is your goal? Is it to just troll all of us?

Pardon me for interrupting your virtual Shangri La by occasionally voicing dissent to the prevailing mind worm that you'd so DESPERATELY love everyone to just choke on. Believe me: I'm not posting any more projects after this - you don't deserve it. You think I'm going to continue to share work when the Eurobricks oligarchy promote intellectual theft? Oh, excuse - he built it. It must be his idea now.

But before I go, let's dig a little deeper on that notion of snobbery. You honestly - truly - believe that the fact that this one-post-wonder has cash to burn, but no ideas of his own, that makes his work superior? Well, to answer that, your words do speak for themselves, so it's unquestionable that you do. We'd better get on with condemning all the unconstructed buildings, I suppose; setting fire to the unpublished books. They're inferior. After all, all the hard work has been done, but somebody didn't hand over a wad of cash yet. What a shame.

If the above constitutes trolling and elitism, count me more than contented to stand apart from the rabble who would celebrate perfidiousness - being considered a rogue by thieves and their apologists is high honor indeed. And if that is too many words for you, then let me make it clear: you are a bad person, those who agree with you are similarly bad people, and I don't want to share your company anymore.

Edited by SteamSewnEmpire

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Posted (edited)

Fantastic job on capturing the iconic streamliner shape whilst also ensuring that it is capable of handling LEGO curves. 

Would love to see the model powered and running! 

I guess all you need to do now is get custom drive wheels and stickers to complete the model. 

Edited by LEGOTrainBuilderSG

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It's an amazing build, and getting something like that so that it so that it can go round Lego's crazy curves is a real skill, certainly someplace I'm not at yet. All that panelling likewise, I'm always wary of SNOT because whenever I use it it takes up too much space and takes away too much strength. Looking forward to seeing more of your creations.

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Very nicely done engine. Designing a streamlining shroud that can articulate properly, through r40 turns no less, is no simple feat. 

I also really appreciate that you've got detailing work in the area between the chassis and the boiler. It's not something easy to see, but at those certain angles, it really helps complete the look.

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5 hours ago, supertruper1988 said:

I have to level with you. His is better than yours first and foremost because it is actually built. Your design looks good but the fact he used a couple of the same parts you did while also clearly using a lot of his own ideas is how it works in LEGO. there are only a few ways to create some shapes so the execution is to be expected to be the same. Add in the fact it navigates LEGO track with all that beautiful cowling makes it very impressive. 

I have seen you on here for years being a general snob about all things trains but to what end? You dont even like building LEGO because it "hurts your hands", nor have you ever once showed that any of your designs are actually buildable, let alone look as good in the brick. 

Why are you here? What is your goal? Is it to just troll all of us? You act all mighty train builder but where is your proof? In your mercury thread you ask basic questions about powering models and gearing. Happy to see you got the help you needed, but at the same time, that same lack of basic knowledge doesnt reinforce that you are the god of LEGO trains. 

Amen to this. You took the words right out of my mouth.

5 hours ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

Ah, the fallback. Well, you are nothing if not true to form.

I can only pound this into your head so many times: it makes literally no difference if a model is built or not. Moreover, it's like comparing a draftsman to a welder - so the little builder can snap bricks together. Bravo. I wonder what the going rate on such a talent is? If I pulled up next to the nearest 7-eleven and waved down an itinerant, do you think I could convince him to do the deed for sub-minimum wage? "Hola! Tu letrero dice que pintas paredes. Puedo convencerte de que construyas un modelo de Lego en su lugar?"

The art is in melding design with engineering, while keeping proportions as true as possible to the original - not in construction. Period. End of story.

And don't even begin to lecture me about making the thing run. There are only so many ways you can skin a cat - the internals of a Lego locomotive are not deep space rocket science; we're dealing with a dozen gears and a handful of motors. Achieving the proper shape and scale of the engine utilizing the extremely limited parts available is the challenge. Because the guts of these things only vary by degrees.

Pardon me for interrupting your virtual Shangri La by occasionally voicing dissent to the prevailing mind worm that you'd so DESPERATELY love everyone to just choke on. Believe me: I'm not posting any more projects after this - you don't deserve it. You think I'm going to continue to share work when the Eurobricks oligarchy promote intellectual theft? Oh, excuse - he built it. It must be his idea now.

But before I go, let's dig a little deeper on that notion of snobbery. You honestly - truly - believe that the fact that this one-post-wonder has cash to burn, but no ideas of his own, that makes his work superior? Well, to answer that, your words do speak for themselves, so it's unquestionable that you do. We'd better get on with condemning all the unconstructed buildings, I suppose; setting fire to the unpublished books. They're inferior. After all, all the hard work has been done, but somebody didn't hand over a wad of cash yet. What a shame.

If the above constitutes trolling and elitism, count me more than contented to stand apart from the rabble who would celebrate perfidiousness - being considered a rogue by thieves and their apologists is high honor indeed. And if that is too many words for you, then let me make it clear: you are a bad person, those who agree with you are similarly bad people, and I don't want to share your company anymore.

@SteamSewnEmpire : This is now the third time that you have been utterly aggressive at the slightest suggestion of something less than praise on this board. First in the debate on "building for a patron", second as a response to the Mercury post, third to @supertruper1988's response to you. There are ways to have dialog on a public message board, and there are ways to voice discontent. The way you do it is not the way to go - you create an air of entitlement around yourself that is unjustified.

I really appreciate the great digital designs you have contributed to this board over the last year and wish you would continue to do so. I also wish you acknowledge that those designs are merely digital drawings and are unproven until built "in the brick", and that doing so and making the engine run reliably on (standard LEGO or third-party) track is an art on its own. You are free to make only digital builds, and if you keep documenting them as you have done, you are a great addition to this board.

With regards to the Mercury - I think it would have been a good courtesy of @AbleChristopher to acknowledge your Mercury _IF_ he had indeed taken inspiration from your digital build. I cannot judge if he did - there are only limited parts in LEGO, so when trying to build a complex shape 2 builders will independently likely use several similar constructions.

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5 hours ago, LEGOTrainBuilderSG said:

Fantastic job on capturing the iconic streamliner shape whilst also ensuring that it is capable of handling LEGO curves. 

Would love to see the model powered and running! 

I guess all you need to do now is get custom drive wheels and stickers to complete the model. 

Thank you very much, yes that is my next goal, The Mercury has gorgeous discs put over her 1930s pacific type drive wheels but I don't think that can be modeled without one single custom mold. Powering is the next step, it is designed to have motors, two within the boiler and the battery pack in the tender, but funding was running low so I skipped it for now. When I get it powered I will post here again!

4 hours ago, Tube Map Central said:

It's an amazing build, and getting something like that so that it so that it can go round Lego's crazy curves is a real skill, certainly someplace I'm not at yet. All that panelling likewise, I'm always wary of SNOT because whenever I use it it takes up too much space and takes away too much strength. Looking forward to seeing more of your creations.

Thanks Tube, I had built it all in studio and it looked great, but when I physically built it the pilot and rear truck didn't want to move more than like 1 degree and plating was getting snagged on itself and falling off. They were both rebuilt many times.

I didn't know the term at the time (SNOT) but I am certainly familiar with it now, anytime I joined together SNOT and studs on top areas I really had to problem solve, nothing lined up exactly right at first. I learned all about 1/2, 1/3 and tiny 1/6th steps.

3 hours ago, Shiva said:

AbleChristopher, that is a good looking locomotive.

Thank you Shiva!

3 hours ago, Daedalus304 said:

Very nicely done engine. Designing a streamlining shroud that can articulate properly, through r40 turns no less, is no simple feat. 

I also really appreciate that you've got detailing work in the area between the chassis and the boiler. It's not something easy to see, but at those certain angles, it really helps complete the look.

Thank you, I was hoping someone would pay attention to that picture haha, there is a light in there similar to the lights the real Mercury used to light up it's drivers at night. Not sure LED lighting the whole thing is part of my goal list, but it would definitely be awesome.

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41 minutes ago, AbleChristopher said:

Thank you very much, yes that is my next goal, The Mercury has gorgeous discs put over her 1930s pacific type drive wheels but I don't think that can be modeled without one single custom mold. Powering is the next step, it is designed to have motors, two within the boiler and the battery pack in the tender, but funding was running low so I skipped it for now. When I get it powered I will post here again!

First off, gorgeous model of a nice early streamliner. Secondly, regarding the drivers on the two Pacifics that powered the real train. 

NYC's "Mercury" (Train): Interior, 4-6-2, Lounge, Timetable

It looks to me that they were actually custom designed disc drivers fitted to the pair durng the rebuild.

nyc4915.jpg

Here's a picture of one of the two Pacifics that powered the streamliner, after the large shroud was removed. All I see that those drive wheels are needing is a bit of white or silver paint! I'm not an expert in the part designing world, but it actually might be easy for the 3rd party driver guys to take a boxpok and modify a copy of it to actually fit the design of the irl prototype's discs. Anyways, still a great looking model, can't wait to see what you do in the future.

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How about just a simple round white sticker? You might even find one of the right size at an office supply store. Just stick it on, push an axle through to create the necessary hole and you’re all set.

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That is an amazing build with a lot of difficult curves. Great job fitting it all together... and then making it able to handle R40's is simply over the top!

 

2 hours ago, AbleChristopher said:

Thank you very much, yes that is my next goal, The Mercury has gorgeous discs put over her 1930s pacific type drive wheels but I don't think that can be modeled without one single custom mold. Powering is the next step, it is designed to have motors, two within the boiler and the battery pack in the tender, but funding was running low so I skipped it for now. When I get it powered I will post here again!

With the receiver and battery in the tender you might want to think of just using train motors under the tender. That keeps you from having to string a cable between the engine and tender. Just a thought, I could see it working well either way.

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