Supersick_

[MOC] "Fer Maiden" - 36 Gun Privateer Frigate

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On 4/2/2021 at 3:16 PM, ctx1769 said:

i.m looking at getting the pirates of barracuda bay and the creator pirate 3 in 1 set. Rebrickable tells me i have 90% of the parts before i get those sets.

.

Yeah, I tried to keep a lot of carryover with 21322 Barracuda Bay so that you have most of the parts already!

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NOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!  april fools !!!! that ship would be so epic !!!!

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This frigate is WONDERFUL! The exterior is impressive, I love the colour-scheme and the curvature of the ship, then the interiors are also amazing. Everything completed by the lower hull & stand that compliment the whole ship and heighten it to a new level! 

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Wow, have seen this one before on several websites, all together insane, perfect artwork as well. Thumbs up for all, I quite like that you have made the main and foresail caught up, that provides the best view on the deck! And a detachable under water ship is even more satisfying!

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On 4/7/2021 at 7:08 AM, Elusys Ra Arwal said:

This frigate is WONDERFUL! The exterior is impressive, I love the colour-scheme and the curvature of the ship, then the interiors are also amazing. Everything completed by the lower hull & stand that compliment the whole ship and heighten it to a new level! 

 

On 4/16/2021 at 10:39 AM, Stoertebricker said:

Wow, have seen this one before on several websites, all together insane, perfect artwork as well. Thumbs up for all, I quite like that you have made the main and foresail caught up, that provides the best view on the deck! And a detachable under water ship is even more satisfying!

Thank you guys for the feedback and compliments, I really appreciate it. 


I've completed the lower hull and listed it as a new MOC on Rebrickable (it's free). https://rebrickable.com/users/supersick_/mocs/  

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, nimitstexan said:

How tall is the interior/gundeck?  Can a figure fit in it standing?

Generally, yes. There are a few areas where they would have to duck to avoid a beam or two but gun crews with bandanas or sailors with Tricorns can stand upright.

Captains with bigger hats/hair/etc fit standing upright aft, in the great cabin  (I’ve kept the tiled floor as low as possible). 
 

edit: the height of gun deck floor to ceiling is 4 bricks at maximum with -1 plate reduction in certain areas for extra structure and support for the removable weather decks. 

Edited by Supersick_

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Excellent ship, I have built it and it didn't disappoint. It is very hard to get the type of accuracy at that scale. 

 

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2 hours ago, Dashiell brown said:

Excellent ship, I have built it and it didn't disappoint. It is very hard to get the type of accuracy at that scale. 

 

Got any photos? :pir-love:

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So, design philosophy question; you went with plates rather than tiles for the the gun deck and weather deck; what was the reason for using tiles for the captain's quarters/main cabin?

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22 hours ago, Captain Braunsfeld said:

Fine ship, very well done.

:thumbup:

(well, one thing: no monkey on board?)

Haha cheers! He's on the Barracuda Brig with Captain Redbeard!

 

16 hours ago, Dashiell brown said:

Excellent ship, I have built it and it didn't disappoint. It is very hard to get the type of accuracy at that scale. 

 

Thank you so much. And yeah like @Mister Phes said, happen to have any pics? Would love to see.

 

 

6 hours ago, nimitstexan said:

So, design philosophy question; you went with plates rather than tiles for the the gun deck and weather deck; what was the reason for using tiles for the captain's quarters/main cabin?

There are a few things, I guess.

- I did tile in the cabin for accuracy: The great cabins of these ships were more often then not laid with ceramic tile. The contrast between stud wood deck and refined tile cabin was something I'm ok with.

- At this scale, removable weather decks with tile planking would have been thicker than I wanted for my ship proportions.

- I personally like plate decks. I like tile decks too, but yeah it just worked out easier for proportions and headroom to keep the wood be plates. Plus I like that you can play with the minifigs easier. 

- I free-built Fer Maiden from 2x Barracuda Bay 21322 and a bunch of brick linking to try various things in real life before replicating her in CAD. Since then I've developed more techniques and I could definitely solve the issue a few ways now if I needed to. It would require me to redesign how the ship comes apart, though.

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On 6/7/2021 at 4:32 AM, Supersick_ said:

 

- I personally like plate decks. I like tile decks too, but yeah it just worked out easier for proportions and headroom to keep the wood be plates. Plus I like that you can play with the minifigs easier. 

I personally prefer the plate decks, both for playability and, well, because that is what Lego is "supposed" to look like, I guess.

About to build her, though still trying to decide if I should build her in the designed privateer/mid 18th century colors, or give her a white (Black Seas Barracuda) look, or build her as a Redcoat/Blue coat ship (with a Yellow Nelson-Chequer style gun deck stripe).  If I build her as a Pirate/Privateer frigate, she will way outgun my Imperial Flagship until Anubis is ready to be shared . . . sort of sits wrong with me letting the Pirates have the upper hand like that. :pir-sweet:

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I just wanted to say, from a Ship=Modeller point of view that this is really superb and as soon as the extra parts i ordered come in, i will build her (actually started already just took a break after i ran out of parts)

I will be building her and maybe do some adaptations should the need arise :D

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1 hour ago, nimitstexan said:

I personally prefer the plate decks, both for playability and, well, because that is what Lego is "supposed" to look like, I guess.

About to build her, though still trying to decide if I should build her in the designed privateer/mid 18th century colors, or give her a white (Black Seas Barracuda) look, or build her as a Redcoat/Blue coat ship (with a Yellow Nelson-Chequer style gun deck stripe).  If I build her as a Pirate/Privateer frigate, she will way outgun my Imperial Flagship until Anubis is ready to be shared . . . sort of sits wrong with me letting the Pirates have the upper hand like that. :pir-sweet:

Ayyy! Can't wait to see. Question, I guess: are you planning Anubis to be a specific faction? The Fer Maiden would either be an adversary or part of the fleet. Maybe it is a privateer currently pirating in the employ of the Redcoats and thus doesn't threaten the flagship. What of the Brig though? I think it conceivable that the _________ admiralty may dispatch a Captain with a brig-sloop wanting to make a name for himself in pirate hunting, only to find out there's a vessel that requires a larger show of power to placate (entre: L'Anubis).

 

Frigate captains had more or less free rein to paint their ships as they wanted - Nelson Chequer, obviously, being very en vogue during his heyday (I know this is, historically speaking, decades after the golden age of piracy).

I'd say the tan stripe she has now is representative of "buff" which was a 1:2 mixture of Ochre and lead white. In Lego I think yellow is the best rich ochre option though it's a bit too saturated. Medium nougat and dark orange are good linseed oiled wood (though very limited on slopes in these colors!! but I am working on a version with this), and of course white is white. The "problem" with assigning a color formula to things is that really no-one adhered to any code for long. Both French and British Navies used ochre, buff and linseed oil finishes almost interchangeably (the latter being the hardest to maintain and thus larger line ships by this time almost always got painted). All 3 US, British and French navies wore lead white after the war of 1812 lol!

The topic is fascinating and usually more answers are found researching specific ships instead of the fleet codes and practices. Trying to discern what is most accurate in paintings, especially, is challenging since most of them weren't commissioned until years or even decades after the intended time of the subject, etc. 

 

As a gift I recolored her to a classic Nelson-chequer for you to visualize. (Reference of HMS Diana). Have you ordered the parts yet? 

1280x720.jpg

6 hours ago, Jasseji said:

I just wanted to say, from a Ship=Modeller point of view that this is really superb and as soon as the extra parts i ordered come in, i will build her (actually started already just took a break after i ran out of parts)

I will be building her and maybe do some adaptations should the need arise :D

Danke schoen! Let me know your plans, if you would like to visualize some colorways, etc! Is she staying a pirate vessel or returning to admiralty duty? Please send/post pics when you build her, I love seeing them.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Supersick_ said:

 

1280x720.jpg

Danke schoen! Let me know your plans, if you would like to visualize some colorways, etc! Is she staying a pirate vessel or returning to admiralty duty? Please send/post pics when you build her, I love seeing them.

Hey, i want to build her as designed if it comes to coloring, in regards to the mods tho, my first would be to make custom cannons base on those from La Grenouille MOC (mostly because of cost of Cannons, I only have 3 available after my kid took possession of the other 5). 

Second I am thinking to change the capstan to 4L axle with 1L Technik spacer and use string instead of the lego string with studs but here I am still experimenting with the string drive to make the capstan switchable from left to right anchor

 

Edited by Jasseji

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As for crew and what colors she will fly, well, i have 2x 21322 so 16 Pirates in Total but only 3 Soldiers (plus the 2 Skeletons with Chakos :D), that would leave the Soldiers at a big disadvantage unfortunately.

However, she might also become an HMHV like Jack Aubrey's Surprise (His Majesty's Hired Vessel) so would only require the Officers to be in Uniform and the rest can be just regular Sailors

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On 6/9/2021 at 4:04 PM, Supersick_ said:

Ayyy! Can't wait to see. Question, I guess: are you planning Anubis to be a specific faction? The Fer Maiden would either be an adversary or part of the fleet. Maybe it is a privateer currently pirating in the employ of the Redcoats and thus doesn't threaten the flagship. What of the Brig though? I think it conceivable that the _________ admiralty may dispatch a Captain with a brig-sloop wanting to make a name for himself in pirate hunting, only to find out there's a vessel that requires a larger show of power to placate (entre: L'Anubis).

I foresee Anubis replacing the Imperial Flagship as the Redcoat.  I am not sure if I am going to build the Brig or not (I would like to, but neither space nor parts are unlimited). If I do,  the Brig will probably end up as a Pirate (though I could also see here as a peaceful trading snow . . .) If resources were unlimited, I build the 3rd rate, the frigate, the brig, and, ideally, a system-scale Constitution-style heavy frigate.  But that does beg the question of what I am going to do with my Imperial Flagship . . . originally, I had the thought to lengthen and build up the bulwarks on the weather deck on both the Imperial Flagship and the Barracuda Bay Pirate Ship to loosely represent early 18th century 4th Rate frigates (a la Swallow and La Renommée/Royal Fortune).  However, given that I much prefer the lines of late 18th/early 19th century frigates, I am happy to break up the Barracuda Bay ship and rebuilt her as Fer Maiden . . . which leaves the Imperial Flagship on its own . . .

 

On 6/9/2021 at 4:04 PM, Supersick_ said:

Frigate captains had more or less free rein to paint their ships as they wanted - Nelson Chequer, obviously, being very en vogue during his heyday (I know this is, historically speaking, decades after the golden age of piracy).

I'd say the tan stripe she has now is representative of "buff" which was a 1:2 mixture of Ochre and lead white. In Lego I think yellow is the best rich ochre option though it's a bit too saturated. Medium nougat and dark orange are good linseed oiled wood (though very limited on slopes in these colors!! but I am working on a version with this), and of course white is white. The "problem" with assigning a color formula to things is that really no-one adhered to any code for long. Both French and British Navies used ochre, buff and linseed oil finishes almost interchangeably (the latter being the hardest to maintain and thus larger line ships by this time almost always got painted). All 3 US, British and French navies wore lead white after the war of 1812 lol!

The topic is fascinating and usually more answers are found researching specific ships instead of the fleet codes and practices. Trying to discern what is most accurate in paintings, especially, is challenging since most of them weren't commissioned until years or even decades after the intended time of the subject, etc. 

Without a doubt the color scheme you picked for Fer Maiden is a good one for plausibly representing privateer, pirate, or (at least pre-1810) government ship.  For sure the Nelson-Chequer was not nearly so ubiquitous, especially for British frigates, as is commonly assumed, and of course is completely anachronistic to the Pirate era.  That said, both Lego's Pirate ships are already weird amalgamations of various eras (huge galleon-style stern castles combined with dolphin strikers and spanker sails) which obviously had playability and loyalty to a Peter Pan/Pirates of the Caribbean view of the pirate theme as primary goals, and Lego colors are limited, and the Nelson-Chequer presents a nice contrast between the good guys and bad guys.

On 6/9/2021 at 4:04 PM, Supersick_ said:

As a gift I recolored her to a classic Nelson-chequer for you to visualize. (Reference of HMS Diana). Have you ordered the parts yet? 

1280x720.jpg

 

That really makes me want to build her in those colors.  I have already ordered the pieces for the default colors (must not be the only one . . . seems tan slopes have become expensive recently), though for the top hull only (these ships are going to be played with by children).  After seeing that, may need to do another order for the yellow slopes . . .

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2 hours ago, nimitstexan said:

That really makes me want to build her in those colors.  I have already ordered the pieces for the default colors (must not be the only one . . . seems tan slopes have become expensive recently), though for the top hull only (these ships are going to be played with by children).  After seeing that, may need to do another order for the yellow slopes . . .

Ye i noticed the price increase when ordering too, pity the original Barracuda Bay slopes arent one brick shorter or i'd be happy to build here even in white (actually, she could become the Connie quite easily with some minor changes that way, the gundeck would have to be extended to have 15 Guns per side and details redone a bit but i think it's doable)

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14 hours ago, nimitstexan said:

I foresee Anubis replacing the Imperial Flagship as the Redcoat.  I am not sure if I am going to build the Brig or not (I would like to, but neither space nor parts are unlimited). If I do,  the Brig will probably end up as a Pirate (though I could also see here as a peaceful trading snow . . .) If resources were unlimited, I build the 3rd rate, the frigate, the brig, and, ideally, a system-scale Constitution-style heavy frigate.  But that does beg the question of what I am going to do with my Imperial Flagship . . . originally, I had the thought to lengthen and build up the bulwarks on the weather deck on both the Imperial Flagship and the Barracuda Bay Pirate Ship to loosely represent early 18th century 4th Rate frigates (a la Swallow and La Renommée/Royal Fortune).  However, given that I much prefer the lines of late 18th/early 19th century frigates, I am happy to break up the Barracuda Bay ship and rebuilt her as Fer Maiden . . . which leaves the Imperial Flagship on its own . . .

 

Without a doubt the color scheme you picked for Fer Maiden is a good one for plausibly representing privateer, pirate, or (at least pre-1810) government ship.  For sure the Nelson-Chequer was not nearly so ubiquitous, especially for British frigates, as is commonly assumed, and of course is completely anachronistic to the Pirate era.  That said, both Lego's Pirate ships are already weird amalgamations of various eras (huge galleon-style stern castles combined with dolphin strikers and spanker sails) which obviously had playability and loyalty to a Peter Pan/Pirates of the Caribbean view of the pirate theme as primary goals, and Lego colors are limited, and the Nelson-Chequer presents a nice contrast between the good guys and bad guys.

That really makes me want to build her in those colors.  I have already ordered the pieces for the default colors (must not be the only one . . . seems tan slopes have become expensive recently), though for the top hull only (these ships are going to be played with by children).  After seeing that, may need to do another order for the yellow slopes . . .

Exactly my line of thinking. 

Yeah I would say that she looks great wearing her "normal" colors. If Anubis is in the cards for your future - and she will be Redcoat (makes sense) - then maybe you can leave the Chequer for her. Prices on yellow slopes is a lot cheaper right now! Brig would be a nice trader, can probably do something close cool/similar using leftovers if you have the hulls to spare. Turn the "flagship" into an Indiaman? 

 

Re: Constitution-style heavy frigate - can definitely be done using techniques from Anubis. I will get there eventually. I have played around with a Fer Maiden Heavy and it's quite cool, so it's something I want to do in the future. Fer Maiden Heavy would be analogous to HMS Endymion in my mind.

 

14 hours ago, Jasseji said:

Ye i noticed the price increase when ordering too, pity the original Barracuda Bay slopes arent one brick shorter or i'd be happy to build here even in white (actually, she could become the Connie quite easily with some minor changes that way, the gundeck would have to be extended to have 15 Guns per side and details redone a bit but i think it's doable)

At theme scale to keep it consistent with Anubis, Fer Maiden and the Brig, the Heavy would probably still "only" have 11 guns per side. Accurate gun counts at theme scale is super super difficult because the cannon are so upsized for the minifigs, which themselves are giant in scale. You've mentioned it before and the price of cannon have definitely made me think about it more, but doing a brick-built alternative for my builds would be a good idea. Can just be a freebie MOC file so that you can get a parts list and then multiply as needed.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Supersick_ said:

Turn the "flagship" into an Indiaman?

That's an idea . . .

 

6 hours ago, Supersick_ said:

Re: Constitution-style heavy frigate - can definitely be done using techniques from Anubis. I will get there eventually. I have played around with a Fer Maiden Heavy and it's quite cool, so it's something I want to do in the future. Fer Maiden Heavy would be analogous to HMS Endymion in my mind.

At theme scale to keep it consistent with Anubis, Fer Maiden and the Brig, the Heavy would probably still "only" have 11 guns per side. Accurate gun counts at theme scale is super super difficult because the cannon are so upsized for the minifigs, which themselves are giant in scale. You've mentioned it before and the price of cannon have definitely made me think about it more, but doing a brick-built alternative for my builds would be a good idea. Can just be a freebie MOC file so that you can get a parts list and then multiply as needed.

I guess it would depend on what exactly you scaled Fer Maiden against, but the heavy 40-gun 24lb frigates (either Endymion or a razee) were about 160 ft at the gun deck, and the Constitution 175 ft (actually, pretty close beam and width to a British 3rd rate); at the scale you are building, would not a 40-gun 24lbs frigate be closer to 5 hull pieces than 4 (which, if so, would allow an extra gun or two per side) . . . and a Constitution-themed ship would have very similar hull length and width to l'Anubis

Edited by nimitstexan

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, nimitstexan said:

That's an idea . . .

 

I guess it would depend on what exactly you scaled Fer Maiden against, but the heavy 40-gun 24lb frigatea (either Endymion or a razee) were about 160 ft at the gun deck, and the Constitution 175 ft (actually, pretty close beam and width to a British 3rd Rate); at the scale you are building, would not a 40-gun 24lbs frigate be closer to 5 hull pieces than 4 (which, if so, would allow an extra gun or two per side) . . . and a Constitution-themed ship would have very similar hull length and width to l'Anubis? 

Correct! 
 

A “40” would bring Fer Maiden to 1 extra gun plus an extra carronade per side. So her main battery would be 10 per broadside (right now she is 9).
 

Anubis has 11 guns per broadside on the lower gun deck, but a frigate arms the "upper deck" (and lowers them all relative to the hull if we're really getting specific but you get a full gun deck that runs above the transom and some more freeboard). So yeah actually I could probably fit 12 per broadside on a super frigate like Constitution.

I would make a “44” super frigate like 1 or 2 studs shorter than Anubis if that would still fit the guns.

Fer Maiden was always intended to pay homage to Endymion but with the prefabs she is proportionally more similar to a Leda-class frigate (like Shannon, Trincomalee). Brick building her hull and giving her 6 more studs in length would be great. A Collector Series-type of revision/refit (would also match the style of Anubis). 

 

Edited by Supersick_

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7 hours ago, Supersick_ said:

At theme scale to keep it consistent with Anubis, Fer Maiden and the Brig, the Heavy would probably still "only" have 11 guns per side. Accurate gun counts at theme scale is super super difficult because the cannon are so upsized for the minifigs, which themselves are giant in scale. You've mentioned it before and the price of cannon have definitely made me think about it more, but doing a brick-built alternative for my builds would be a good idea. Can just be a freebie MOC file so that you can get a parts list and then multiply as needed.

Yep, my point Exactly, the cannons i plan for her for now will use Technic 2L Spacers (already ordered) but i am open to suggestions, at this scale when put next to the Anubis, only the Anubis should have the normal LEGO Cannons on the Lower Gundeck (as you already did = they would depict 24-32pdrs) and the Maiden should have some brickbuilt (maybe a little bit longer than the Barracuda Brig to depict the Brig having 9pdrs and the Maiden 12-18pdrs).

If it comes to scale tho, the Anubis seems like one of the 50-gun 3rd Rates, like the HMS Leopard for instance, at least the amount of guns and port placement.

The Connie is actually Huge for a Frigate, she's really a class of it's own 

But yes, you are right, the scaling needs to be adjusted and the Maiden would fit a Leda Class (well, perhaps maybe some of the smaller 32-36 Guns like Triton or Pallas Class)

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2 hours ago, Supersick_ said:

Fer Maiden was always intended to pay homage to Endymion but with the prefabs she is proportionally more similar to a Leda-class frigate (like Shannon, Trincomalee). Brick building her hull and giving her 6 more studs in length would be great. A Collector Series-type of revision/refit (would also match the style of Anubis). 

Ah . . . I had assumed from her proportions and your descriptions that she was intended to be more based on the Leda, but I could see the Endymion, too (they both have basically the same length to breadth ratio).

 

2 hours ago, Supersick_ said:

Anubis has 11 guns per broadside on the lower gun deck, but a frigate arms the "upper deck" (and lowers them all relative to the hull if we're really getting specific but you get a full gun deck that runs above the transom and some more freeboard). So yeah actually I could probably fit 12 per broadside on a super frigate like Constitution.

I would make a “44” super frigate like 1 or 2 studs shorter than Anubis if that would still fit the guns.

Yeah, looking at it again (as well as the real world Téméraire, which had 15 guns on its lower deck, just like the 15 on the Constitution's main deck), I think your thought of 11 guns for a system scale Constitution was completely correct.  Not sure exactly which scale your are using, but if l'Annubis is supposed to be based on Téméraire at 70x18 studs, that would suggest a Constitution-based ship at 67x17 studs on the gundeck according to my rough math.

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