A review of the first elements from the FX Track system

[zephyr1934]

I just updated the very end of the review in the first post to include my experience with the R88 curves.

[Black Knight]

14 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

I just updated the very end of the review in the first post to include my experience with the R88 curves.

Greatly appreciated, thanks!

[zephyr1934]

Now a bit of Brickworld 2022 preview. Michael Gail was planning on coming to BW to preview some of his new products but came down with COVID and could not make it. He sent one of his top staff members instead (Max) while Michael joined by video conference. Many trainheads joined the meeting and we were treated to a preview of several prototypes and products in development. First up, the switch,

 

The prototype switch did not have any of the metal attached, but looked REALLY sharp. They will come in packs of two, you can choose between a pair of lefts, a pair of rights, or one of each. They have been delayed by the more recent wave of COVID closures in China. The estimated availability is the end of this year, hopefully just under $100 for a pair, but not finalized yet.

 

 

VERY IMPORTANT, because the branches are always on, the crossovers do not self isolate like lego switches do. By design, the bottoms of the switches are attached with screws in case you ever need to clean them, so as a bonus, someone who is handy with wiring could probably modify them to be self-isolating if they were so inclined. Otherwise, there are really simple ways to isolate (I've used clear packing tape folded over once between the joints).

 

There were also an assortment of odd sized track parts necessary to preserve spacing for different switch configurations (see box back above for examples). A couple of people who ballast track observed the potential difficulties this may present and I THINK Michael said he would be happy to share the info necessary for a third party to make ballasting plates for the switches, etc.

 

Next up, we got to see a mockup of the motor

First one out will be a "dumb motor". It will match the form factor of the 9v and 12v motors. It will have metal wheels (they will be dyed black in the production models) that then feed directly to jumpers on the end of the unit. Leave the jumpers in and it will behave like a lego 9v motor only it has a 9v port on either side. Pull the jumpers off, and now the port on one side of the motor will pass through the power from the wheels (a power pickup) the other side will provide power to the motor inside. So you can use any controller in between, e.g., an IR receiver, FX Brick, etc. while still being track powered (and then it does not matter if all branches of your switch are always on). It will have metal insides and a screw off bottom for servicing.

Now get this...

The top comes off! Break the pin off? No problem. Want to rigidly build on the motor? No problem. We suggested making a 1x2 plate cutout so you could attach a bracket between the wheels. They will look into whether there is enough space, but if there isn't, you can always raise the bogie plate up one more plate.

Oh, and the black bogie plates will be available individually too.

He is hoping to have them available by the end of the year, but less likely than the switches. Otherwise, asap in 2023. The price is anticipated to be around $100 but might be just above.

No one bothered to ask if the estimated cost was in USD or CAD, since the FX store prices are in CAD, there is a good chance Michael thinks in CAD, which would make them a little cheaper. But still in the same ballpark.

In the works (sounded like within a year after the dumb motor comes out), they will add a smart motor to the lineup that essentially has an integrated FX Brick that can also handle DCC.

Also in the works is a "motor-less" motor, i.e., power pickup using the motor contacts but no internal propulsion. Some of the steam folks grumbled and were promised that a single axle power pickup with the form factor of a lego train wheel is in the plans, but it will come later.

Several folks mentioned an interest in the option to install a dummy wheel but were soon silenced when informed that a three axle motor is also in the works (probably a few years off) with a floating, unpowered middle axle. So you can start building realistic E units (A-1-A). It will be a little longer than the two axle motor (1-2 studs).

We also met a working prototype controller.

It has a 16x16 footprint, and if you get three of them you can pretend you are Mr. Scott on the USS Enterprise. It has throttle controlled power out of the middle and will have auxiliary power on the ends for future 12v system style add on devices. The gray buttons have a lot of different options, e.g., 9v/12v output (the light turns orange when 12v). With the declining availability of silicon chips, they redesigned the insides multiple times, it is now chip free and robust to supply chain disruptions. It has a VERY interesting output mode- low frequency PWM. Which means VERY low speed movement is possible, as demonstrated with a lego 9v motor. BTW, it can go even slower than that first video. As the real time background audio conveys, some of the features discussed might not be available on day 1, instead, coming later, via a firmware update.

 

[HoMa]

Great news, thanks for sharing. I hope @michaelgale is getter better very quickly, all the best for him.

I remember attending the same session in 2019 when Michael announced the first FX Track ideas and passed around a prototype of a 32 straight segment. With rising global challenges and a long breath we are now able to get those tracks, not only straights but various curves. And with some more patience we will get the switches, the motor (like the idea of using a regular boogie plate on top) and a space ship style controller. Wow, good opportunities to spend the hobby money.

Maybe the controller can go into a huge 2x2 slope which we all know with the printed computer patterns back from the old days.

Great work @michaelgale! 

 

[Jeffinslaw]

Looks like prices were posted incorrectly. The smart bogie was expected to be priced around $100. Michael Gale never specified a price for the switches but said it would be “much less than $100.”

- Jeff

[davidzq]

This is great news! Glad they were able to overcome anticipated supply issues on the controller. 

[zephyr1934]

22 hours ago, Jeffinslaw said:

Looks like prices were posted incorrectly. The smart bogie was expected to be priced around $100. Michael Gale never specified a price for the switches but said it would be “much less than $100.”

I did not take notes at the meeting and as Jeff noted, several others at the meeting recalled lower prices being given. So it is quite possible that my recollection is off. In any event, all prices given were very rough estimates, the actual prices could be higher or lower. What is clear is that the motors and switches will be more expensive then their lego counterparts, but they will also be much higher quality (and that's saying a lot given the quality of the old 9v system).

 

[Ropefish]

Looks very promising for 9V!

[derlumpi]

Nice to see an update. Switches will be bought in any case and one or two motors as well. Can't wait die the release!

[GoHabsGo]

Good to see news from FX Bricks.

I'm ready to buy motors and other stuffs

[crizz11]

Hi everyone, this is all very exciting and i can't wait to convert my layout to FX tracks and convert all my trains to use FX motors.  I have a few questions though in relation to my layout and how 9v would work.

1.  I have two loops running around my layout.  One with R72 curves and the other with R88.  These are currently joined via a R104 double crossover from Trixbrix https://trixbrix.eu/en_US/p/Double-Crossover-R104/84  .  Question is how do you provide power around a 2 loop layout?  Do you need a transformer connected to each loop (2 transformers)?

2. I'm guessing i also have a big problem with the R104 double crossover in that it will be very hard if not impossible to have it powered using the copper tape method?

thanks.

 

[davidzq]

4 hours ago, crizz11 said:

Hi everyone, this is all very exciting and i can't wait to convert my layout to FX tracks and convert all my trains to use FX motors.  I have a few questions though in relation to my layout and how 9v would work.

1.  I have two loops running around my layout.  One with R72 curves and the other with R88.  These are currently joined via a R104 double crossover from Trixbrix https://trixbrix.eu/en_US/p/Double-Crossover-R104/84  .  Question is how do you provide power around a 2 loop layout?  Do you need a transformer connected to each loop (2 transformers)?

2. I'm guessing i also have a big problem with the R104 double crossover in that it will be very hard if not impossible to have it powered using the copper tape method?

thanks.

 

You would want two separate transformers, to have independent control of each loop.

For the switches, you could use copper tape to run power through the straight section rather easily. Powering both the straight and diverging routes with tape would present some issues, namely the need to have a separation isolating each loop. There's also the durability factor of the tape.

Why not simply use the FX P40 switch which is soon to be released? It's a 9v R104 switch.

[crizz11]

1 hour ago, davidzq said:

You would want two separate transformers, to have independent control of each loop.

For the switches, you could use copper tape to run power through the straight section rather easily. Powering both the straight and diverging routes with tape would present some issues, namely the need to have a separation isolating each loop. There's also the durability factor of the tape.

Why not simply use the FX P40 switch which is soon to be released? It's a 9v R104 switch.

Thank you for your quick response.

Do you mean use two FX P40 switches? one on each loop? (in different areas slightly of course)  for easier transition from one loop to the other, to save having to reverse to get back onto the other loop.

[Black Knight]

5 hours ago, crizz11 said:

1.  I have two loops running around my layout.  ...  These are currently joined via a R104 double crossover ...  Question is how do you provide power around a 2 loop layout?  Do you need a transformer connected to each loop (2 transformers)?

2. I'm guessing i also have a big problem with the R104 double crossover in that it will be very hard if not impossible to have it powered using the copper tape method?

If you want to independently control the both loops AND they must be connected via some switch, you must somehow isolate the two loops. The challenge will be the connection: When you run a 9V motor across it, it will temporarily shortcut the two loops which may cause some problems between the two transformators. I personally would advise against that solution and (for now) just power everything with one trafo. Later when @michaelgale comes up with his DCC solution (or the possibility to insert a PFxBrick ..), you will just turn the transformator to full power and control the motors via DCC, Bluetooth or whatever.

Copper taping those double crossovers will be hard, because you must avoid shortcuts: The motor bogie driving over the crossover must never touch the "left" and "right" track simultaneously which will be a challenge in the middle part of the crossover! Maybe @michaelgale will give us something even cooler than the R104 switch in some years. *fingers crossed* In the meantime, I think right now the best solution is to buy four R104 switches as replacement and have a ball with them.

[zephyr1934]

9 hours ago, crizz11 said:

Do you mean use two FX P40 switches? one on each loop? (in different areas slightly of course)  for easier transition from one loop to the other, to save having to reverse to get back onto the other loop.

 

Yes, you can use two of these switches to make a single crossover ("single" as in one direction) as shown on the middle left of the box artwork below. As a result, you will either need twice as much straight track so that you can cross one way and then the other, or you only have one crossover and for one direction you need to back through it.

On 6/19/2022 at 1:53 AM, zephyr1934 said:

 

Assuming you want to run trains independently on the loops, in the short term, as the others have said, you would need two transformers, one for each loop and isolation between the two loops (probably where the two switches of the crossover meet). To do it "right" you could add more isolation joints in your layout and use a couple of polarity switches so that you can switch which transformer is powering the the track in the crossover section.

Doing it "wrong" with a single isolation joint at the switches probably will not do much harm if you are careful to make sure both transformers are roughly at the same setting or one is off when you run a motor over the joint, but there is no guarantee, it could shorten the lifespan of your transformer and/or motors.

A third option is to use the crossovers, but never run a powered motor over them. Stopping the locomotive short of the isolation joint and pushing the locomotive by hand over it before resuming with the other transformer.

 

In the long term, I believe Michael envisions a DCC system where all of the tracks are powered all of the time and you control each motor or group of motors by their ID. In this case you would probably have a single transformer and no isolation.

 

 

[Vilhelm22]

3 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

In the long term, I believe Michael envisions a DCC system where all of the tracks are powered all of the time and you control each motor or group of motors by their ID. In this case you would probably have a single transformer and no isolation.

Have we any idea when this will actually be?  I'm guessing nowhere near now but is there any idea of the timeline of events from now on following what I'm assuming will be the fairly imminent release of these products.

[M_slug357]

Until the dcc option is available, would it make sense to use a larger plastic section for isolation along with the trains’ own momentum to cross over?

[zephyr1934]

On 7/6/2022 at 1:58 PM, Vilhelm22 said:

Have we any idea when this will actually be?  I'm guessing nowhere near now but is there any idea of the timeline of events from now on following what I'm assuming will be the fairly imminent release of these products.

No, the dumb motors sound like they will be released late this year or early next. The smart motors did not have a date, but he said they were designed at the same time as the dumb motors so it might not be a long delay thereafter. Not sure when DCC would be officially supported, but once the smart motors are available you might be able to do it yourself right away.

Also, I forgot, the dumb motors will support a "poor-person's DCC," as in, they can serve as a power pickup to an intermediate controller (FX brick, SBrick, IR receiver, etc) that then has control of power to the wheels. Unlike the 9v motor, the FX motor has two ports on the top. The default is that they are wired together via jumpers, but remove the jumpers and then they become independent. The only problem I see is that you then need to get not one but two wires to your motor unit. Doable, but a minor hassle (and for some models impossible)

 

On 7/6/2022 at 7:20 PM, M_slug357 said:

Until the dcc option is available, would it make sense to use a larger plastic section for isolation along with the trains’ own momentum to cross over?

Maybe, but it would take up a lot of space and instead of relying on pushing the train yourself across a single joint, you would be relying on the train going fast enough to have sufficient momentum to get across a large gap. If you have sufficient space you would probably be better served with three blocks- loop 1, loop 2, and an intermediate section that could be switched between being coupled with either loop by way of a polarity switch.

[JWBDolphins]

In the DCC world you can do something like this:  https://www.digitrax.com/media/apps/products/autoreversing/ar1/documents/AR1.pdf
Don't think this will work for what you're trying to do now, but the general idea is have some isolated sections of track that the metal wheels will energize when they short the gap which is electronically detected and switches the polarity of track between these isolated sections.  Not sure I explained that very well!  

Edited July 8, 2022 by JWBDolphins
update

[Ropefish]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:41 AM, zephyr1934 said:

No, the dumb motors sound like they will be released late this year or early next. The smart motors did not have a date, but he said they were designed at the same time as the dumb motors so it might not be a long delay thereafter. Not sure when DCC would be officially supported, but once the smart motors are available you might be able to do it yourself right away.

Oh thats a shame, there might be a long time before the smart motors with all the chip shortage issues, took me a bit to get my PFx brick cause of it! its a shame, a DCC system in lego would be wonderful, imagine PFx bricks becoming the lionel of lego trains hahaha!

[bogieman]

22 hours ago, Ropefish said:

Oh thats a shame, there might be a long time before the smart motors with all the chip shortage issues, took me a bit to get my PFx brick cause of it! its a shame, a DCC system in lego would be wonderful, imagine PFx bricks becoming the lionel of lego trains hahaha!

I first used a wireless DCC system from MRC, now from XLSystems, called Loco Genie. It works great with sound and light control but is limited by having a remote for each locomotive. I've now moved to Airwire, which has a product called Convrtr, that sits between any DCC decoder and the battery. The advantage is it opens up all the DCC functions with the decoder of your choice, I'm now using Tsunami2 decoders, and it allows for consisting all from a single remote. It does take custom wiring but I hated the bluetooth/phone controller idea, and am very proficient at wiring, not so good trying to program sounds.

Dave

[Sunil766]

On 7/8/2022 at 4:41 PM, zephyr1934 said:

Unlike the 9v motor, the FX motor has two ports on the top. The default is that they are wired together via jumpers, but remove the jumpers and then they become independent. The only problem I see is that you then need to get not one but two wires to your motor unit

Would you mind elaborating. I get the advantage of having two ports on the motor, but bridging vs non-bridging? (I thought they both always pass through whatever power is provided from the track, or in case power is provided from batt.box, it doesn't make a difference to jump/separate) 

What's the use case? 

[XG BC]

one takes power from the rails, to power a dcc decoder (the rails always have voltage running through them in this case) and the other one is the dc motors power input.

[zephyr1934]

21 hours ago, Sunil766 said:

Would you mind elaborating. I get the advantage of having two ports on the motor, but bridging vs non-bridging? (I thought they both always pass through whatever power is provided from the track, or in case power is provided from batt.box, it doesn't make a difference to jump/separate) 

What's the use case? 

On a normal 9v motor the wheels and power port are hard wired. On the FX motor The wheels are hard wired to one power port on the top of the shell and the other power port (on the other end of the motor shell) is hard wired to the motor. There are jumpers on one end of the shell- see the two extra "bumps" on the right of the mock-up motor below. Leave them in and it works like a 9v motor. Pull them out and the two power ports on the top of the shell are isolated, allowing you to put an IR receiver, FX brick, S brick or whatever you like between the two to allow you independent motor control while the track is always at full power. Obviously some people will want that and some won't.

On 6/19/2022 at 1:53 AM, zephyr1934 said:

Michael LOVES the old 9v connectors and they will be used throughout this system, so that is how you will get power to/from these motors.

 

Now I don't remember the details of DCC, there might have been direct support for DCC on the dumb motor, I don't remember. But the bottom of the motor will be screwed on so I strongly suspect those who are handy with soldering irons will be able to add DCC on day one.

 

I believe the smart motor will essentially have an integrated FX brick, not DCC. I'm not sure at what point in the system DCC is supported, but it is in Michael's roadmap and I believe one or both of these motors will support it, but nothing is on the market yet so wait for details as these get closer.

 

Finally, I think I said this earlier, there will be a 3rd variant of the motor shell without the motor to serve as a power pickup. Single axle power pickups are in the plans for the future, but since it is a simple and obvious extension with the motor shells, they should be available sooner in the process.

 

[crizz11]

Just confirming, are there 8 studs in between these two parallel tracks when you use two P40L's?  Also which Windows software has FX tracks in it for layout design please?

thanks.