allanp

Technic is just for kids, and you can build anything so stop complaining!

Adult fan of Technic poll  

106 members have voted

  1. 1. Regarding accessibility

    • Technic is perfect the way it is
    • Technic sets aimed at older/more experienced builders are just a little too compromised in the direction of less experienced builders
    • Technic sets aimed at older/more experienced builders are way too compromised in the direction of less experienced builders
    • All Technic sets seem to be made to cater for babies!
  2. 2. Regarding adult appeal

    • Technic is perfect the way it is
    • Technic sets aimed at older/more experienced builders could do with more things that appeal to adults (OK but could be better)
    • Minus only a few exceptions released years ago Technic sets supposedly aimed at older builders have no adult appeal at all (not OK)
  3. 3. What appeals to me as an adult fan of Technic (multiple choice but try to limit to only about 3...ish if you can)

    • A variety of mechanisms
    • Realistic mechanisms
    • New parts
    • High part count
    • Authentic looking model
    • Remote control
    • Mechanisms that are unrealistically complex for the sake of complexity
    • Premium packaging
  4. 4. Regarding authenticity, although both is preferable, which is more important

    • Authentic mechanisms
    • Authentic looks
  5. 5. Regarding fixes and improvements to Technic sets

    • I'm fine with TLG releasing sets with some functions that don't work properly as I can fix it
    • I am somewhat disappointed when functions don't work correctly
    • I am very disappointed when functions don't work correctly
  6. 6. Regarding current parts selection and the ability to make whatever you want from Technic

    • Technic is perfect the way it is
    • I like to MOC but sometimes I think Technic has some gaps in the parts catalogue preventing me from building what I really want (ie realistic 7 speed gearbox just for example)
    • The Technic parts catalogue is terrible, I can't build anything like how I want!
  7. 7. Regarding colour coding

    • Technic is perfect the way it is
    • Colour coding is a bit to childish looking and garish in Technic sets aimed at older/more experienced builders
    • Colour coding is way too childish looking and garish in Technic sets aimed at older/more experienced builders
    • Colour coding of any kind is no good, go back to how it was in the early 90's!
  8. 8. Regarding PU

    • Technic is perfect the way it is
    • It's great for sets but not fun and/or difficult to make MOCs with but would be great with only better documentation
    • It's great for sets but not fun and/or difficult to make MOCs with but would be great with better documentation and desperately needs a physical controller
    • It's great for sets but not fun and/or difficult to make MOCs with, and can't improve
    • It's no good for sets or for making MOCs, go back to PF
  9. 9. Regarding RC

    • RC is perfectly done, I want more RC sets at they are
    • RC is a great idea, but RC sets are too simple and expensive. Make RC sets more mechanically interesting (complex/realistic) to match their price and I would like RC sets more than I do
    • RC should be in kiddie sets only
    • RC is just the worst!
  10. 10. Regarding B models

    • I don't need them
    • I miss every set having a B model, but it hasn't ever once changed my buying decision
    • I'm ok with licenced sets not having a b-model but all non licenced sets should have a b-model
    • Every set should have a b model, but I'll buy it if the A model is brilliant
    • I won't buy it if there's no b model


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Poll is ready for you to vote

And so it goes, time and time again, whenever there's a topic discussing a new set or wave of sets, the same arguments appear. So I thought, instead of always having those arguments everywhere else, maybe we could contain them, maybe a little bit, in this topic, and instead of not fully expressing ourselves for fear of straying too far off topic, well now that is the topic, so express away! It's not meant to be confrontational or an excuse to repeat myself! It's kind of like how the future set wishes and speculation topic was intended to remove that sort of thing from all the other threads.

To me there appears to be mainly 2 recurring points of discussion. 

1) Technic is for kids

versus

Technic should have more adult appeal and....

2) Lego is designed to be rebuilt to suit your own wants and desires so you should do that instead of expressing your disappointment

verses 

Ain't nobody got time for that! Lego is expensive and should be better out of the box, and besides it's not always possible to build what I want.

 

Now anyone who knows me knows where I stand on these two points. But for the sake of getting things started I'll briefly sum up. 

To the first point I say that sure, Lego is primarily for kids and should always be. But that's referring to Lego as a single entity, not as a collection of many different products with many different audiences, and I do think that SOME sets should have more things that would appeal to adult fans such as more focus on mechanical realism, less colour coding, more new things that us adult fans haven't seen many times already such as vehicles with multi function gearboxes or vehicles with each function being driven by it's own motor, as neither of these things are realistic and it's all we ever seem to get just lately. Now of course, all sets should be accessible to the age that's printed on the box, but I remember being a kid and not liking Knex because of how multicoloured and mechanically simplistic it was, so it's disheartening to see Technic going the same way. And what kid wouldn't want the feeling of owning a miniature version of the real thing, as opposed to something that feels like just a toy? I don't say that some sets should have more adult appeal just because I happen to be an adult, but because I honestly think it would make for a more appealing and varied product catalogue for a wider age group. Sure you can have sets with multifunction gearboxes and LAs and so on, but have some mechanically realistic and authentic sets thrown in there as well. Even those of us that like all those LAs and multifunction gearboxes would find the line up more appealing. I mean, you might like ice cream, but if that's all you ever ate, you will eventually grow to hate it. Mix things up a bid and add some variety. If there ever was a way to please everyone then it's with variety. You might not please everyone with a single set (although sets like the Arocs, 8880 and 8868 seem to manage that better than any other), but TLG doesn't have to. They release many sets every year in the Technic line up. If you have a fan base as large and dedicated as we are, and every year you release around a dozen new products, and still every year there are those saying things like "non of this years line up is for me" then, well you might not be doing something wrong exactly, but it certainly could be better. And I don't blame the designers for the decisions made by those that are higher up. We all have our orders!  

To the second point of Lego being designed to be rebuilt into anything you want, again I have to disagree with that. By that I mean I don't think the phrase "Lego is designed to be rebuilt into anything you want" carries the full weight of what those that are using that phrase intend it to. Of course, Lego IS designed to be rebuilt into other things, but it cannot be rebuilt into anything you want. Of course, it can't be built into something silly like a working space shuttle or a new vaccine. But I'm talking about Technic and the things that by now, after so many years of existence and evolution, it probably should be able to be built into. For example, a realistic 6 speed manual gearbox, with only 2 main shafts, with all the gears aligned on those two shafts and only one extra somewhere for reverse. This is something that is ubiquitous, it exists in 99% of all motor vehicles and yet something as simple as that, it is still not possible in Technic without making custom parts. Another example is leaf spring suspension. Most heavy duty vehicles have these and yet it's not possible to be done in Technic without risking permanent deformation of parts. Or what about a large flagship scale pneumatic forklift, with the really long cylinders that would require? Again not possible with the current parts. So while Lego is designed to be built into something else, that doesn't mean it can be built into what I want, or what I think it should be buildable into. Ok, but what about things that are possible. This years bulldozer flagship could be built pretty close (though not exactly) how I want it with existing parts. That is true, but then why would I buy it? What reason do I have to buy their rather expensive product if I can already build it more to my liking? Well, there is one rather large and compelling reason to do exactly that actually, and that is because sometimes I like just relaxing with a big Lego build. It's so relaxing and therapeutic to just switch off and follow the instructions and not have to think too much about how I'm going to build this or how I'm going to design that. But then that also goes against the idea of "well you can just build it better yourself". I could probably build it more to my personal taste, but with a mentally demanding full time job and other things that most adults have, much of the time I just don't have the time or energy. Now I could instead go for a nice Lesu  hydraulic excavator or something like that (and I just might despite it's price tag) but it's just not Lego. I'd never want to stop Lego entirely. Something about Lego just draws me to it, and overall I do love it, it's sooooooo close to being everything I want from my favourite hobby and with new parts like the reduction hubs in 42099, the pneumatics of the Arocs and so on, I'm sure they are listening. 

So there are my brief rebuttals to those two common arguments. I could say more (yes, I was trying to be brief!) but for a starting point I've rattled on enough already. Feel free to discuss and express your agreement and disagreement as much as you want, and link to this topic should these arguments appear in future set topics. 

 

Edited by allanp

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Very valid arguments you have here. Regarding your first question, I'll add this: I'm an AFOL with a degree in Mechanical Engineering. As such, I come to Lego (primarily Technic) not for the flashy colors, but to reproduce and explore functions and mechanisms I learned while in school. Whether it is the clever adder/subtracter contraptions with differentials, the paddle-shift transmissions, the Torsen differentials, holonomic/meccanum wheels, the pneumatic machines with intricate Boolean logic, Platonic Solids (my avatar) and Tessellations. All of these, and there is a much bigger list, are really NOT for kids. In a sense, I see Lego as a prototyping platform for mechanical engineers, very much like Arduino is for electrical/electronics. Then you can always mix the two and move into Mechatronics. For that, need to go see how Mindstorms got started, after a joint venture between Lego and MIT in the mid 90's. Incidentally, that is what sparked my renewed interest in Lego back then ... we had micro-controllers and plenty of gears, axles, and technic beams (lift-arms were not that big back then), and had to build functional/programmable machines (fighting bots).

As to question #2, those of us old enough to remember the old lego sets (My first was 851), would have a different opinion here. We've come to expect 'more' from lego than just build it once and display it (and let it collect dust). In the old days, there were universal sets too, and instructions to build multiple contraptions. After one has acquired/purchased many sets, one should have enough parts/colors to build 'anything' they want. However, this seems to pose an existential threat to Lego as not many people would buy sets anymore. Hence TLG keeps on coming up with new parts, new colors, and authentic vehicles that many of us relate to (and dream of). There will be a mix of opinions here for sure, but I'm with the camp that says Lego sets are becoming too expensive here and especially now that you have to buy a specific set to get that special part. This is not true only for Technic, but also others. A while back my son wanted the Green Ninja from the Ninjago series, and that minifig was exclusive to a single top $ set. Yes there is Bricklink if you always want the latest part in a unique color ... and many of us will always find a way to b*tch about any aspect of this hobby. In the end though, it's a personal choice, and if you want the top toys (rarest parts), gotta be willing to pay the price.

 

Edited by DrJB

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Regarding the second point: one of the issues lately, in my opinion, is that many sets do not have a B model anymore. Nowadays, for myself, I do not really care, as I build my own stuff.

However, I think a nice B model is quite critical for beginners in "breaking the ice", as in taking the A model apart into pieces and building something else with it. Otherwise the A model sits on a shelf never to be touched again, because there is nothing to facilitate taking it apart.

Now, I understand that a B model for a Bugatti or whatever is not easy and perhaps not wanted. However, I really do not get, why sets like the 42108 do not have a B model anymore. It feels like Lego does not want to encourage free building anymore.

I'm aware of the many excellent alternate builds that the community produces, but many Lego buyers are not aware that such things even exist.

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I see summer news is out? :P

Anyhow, the fact that Lego can be built into other things, is not an argument for simplistic sets.

Lego is for kids, yes, but the worst set of the whole Technic lineup, like, ever, (the 42125 Ferrari) had an 18+ label. That set is one of the very few having official proof of not being for kids, yet, it's possibly the worst offender of the simplification movement in existence. (It would be fine if it were called Racers and wouldn't have taken a slot where a model with actual functions could have been and wouldn't have diluted the Technic brand.)

Also, I don't think anyone here would blame the designers. I think the problem is the company's philosophy.

28 minutes ago, johncarpenter said:

I think a nice B model is quite critical for beginners in "breaking the ice", as in taking the A model apart into pieces and building something else with it.

This is quite honestly a great way of looking at things that I hadn't read before. Thanks (for providing yet another argument for why B models are a good thing).

But as @DrJB noted: the goal of the company is to make profit, and reusability works directly against that direct short-term goal. And as the whole world is short-term-focused (that's basically the gig economy) this ain't gonna change. The only thing TLC wants is people buying more of their stuff. Why would they make it so you can use your parts for anything you like?

.

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18 hours ago, allanp said:

To me there appears to be mainly 2 recurring points of discussion. 

1) Technic is for kids

versus

Technic should have more adult appeal and....

2) Lego is designed to be rebuilt to suit your own wants and desires so you should do that instead of expressing your disappointment

verses 

Ain't nobody got time for that! Lego is expensive and should be better out of the box, and besides it's not always possible to build what I want.

 

And none of the points are self-explaining.

What does "for kids/for adults" or "built better" even mean? Is a 42100/42030 for adults because it's expensive or for (richie rich) kids because it's not complicated and very playable? Should Lego release "Technic" toys, that have to be assembled first but than behave like other toy? Or is Lego Technic more about the technical aspect and every set should be an incentive to build something technical, no matter what it is (more like Fischertechnik)? And what does this mean for adults? Most adults-talk-about-Lego-videos on youtube are about putting things on a shelf, so adult = put things on shelf? Or adult = adult level of complexity for people with years of technic experience (things can escalate here quickly)? Or adult = same toy just bigger? :D

What's the point of Lego Technic?

I don't know... but there are obviously multiple interest groups.

They brought programmable hubs and sensors to Technic, bridging the gap with Mindstorms. That occupies me for a while and when pneumatic sets come onto the market again I'll be happy for the time being. What do I care about cars that can be put on the shelf and what do I care about someone who likes/dislikes them? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If you ask me I would remove the C+ app completely and "here you have another instruction book - have fun 'programming' in PU" ;D and make 'Technic' more technical in general (robots like mindstorms and other not car and not construction machine related sets). But that's only my opinion...

And in my experience: Yes Lego does listen to some extend, but a noticeable change can easily take two or three years.

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5 hours ago, johncarpenter said:

Regarding the second point: one of the issues lately, in my opinion, is that many sets do not have a B model anymore. Nowadays, for myself, I do not really care, as I build my own stuff.

However, I think a nice B model is quite critical for beginners in "breaking the ice", as in taking the A model apart into pieces and building something else with it. Otherwise the A model sits on a shelf never to be touched again, because there is nothing to facilitate taking it apart.

Now, I understand that a B model for a Bugatti or whatever is not easy and perhaps not wanted. However, I really do not get, why sets like the 42108 do not have a B model anymore. It feels like Lego does not want to encourage free building anymore.

I'm aware of the many excellent alternate builds that the community produces, but many Lego buyers are not aware that such things even exist.

 

 

4 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

This is quite honestly a great way of looking at things that I hadn't read before. Thanks (for providing yet another argument for why B models are a good thing).

But as @DrJB noted: the goal of the company is to make profit, and reusability works directly against that direct short-term goal. And as the whole world is short-term-focused (that's basically the gig economy) this ain't gonna change. The only thing TLC wants is people buying more of their stuff. Why would they make it so you can use your parts for anything you like?

I wonder if it could ever be economical for Lego to buy the rights to fan B/C models for sets, provided that they meet Lego's durability standards, and then provide online access to a number of fan-designed alternate models. If this were done right, it could result in more available alternate models, and more interesting alternate models, with less investment from Lego.

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I think technic is a theme that should be geared towards AFOLS more. Aside from the now defunct creator expert it has more 16/18+ sets than any other theme and I think the majority of its buyers would be older children and primarily TFOLS and AFOls, so it should be more advanced.

As for building what you want, it is very hard now as the new powered up systems aren't easy to use like power functions. Since you cannot program on Control+ is is very difficult to make your own MOCs with only lego parts, and many people, maybe/probably a majority, aren't all that skilled with programming. The powered up app is extremely confusing and I have no idea how to work it, which to many buyers and MOCers could be a turn-off. In fact it is the powered up components that turn me off technic. The majoirty of technic buyers are probably drawn to it by the motorised functions, which are hard to achieve outside of a set.

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8 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

The only thing TLC wants is people buying more of their stuff. Why would they make it so you can use your parts for anything you like?

I feel that people who rebuild tend to be more lasting customers. They will have a more sustained interest in Lego.

Is Lego marketing foolishly targetting short term profit numbers (horizon of few years) instead of long term (horizon of decades across generations of customers) ? Only time will tell.

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So much to say and read on this subject. One thing though not mentioned is as anyone who actually shops in stores would have noticed.

LEGO, including Technic is no longer considered just a kids toy. According to LEGO and many big retailers many sets  are now specifically targeting adults, In fact Target has a totally separate section in the store for adult LEGO away from the "kids" LEGO. Consisting mostly of the larger Technic sets and Creator vehicles, Architecture and those artsy sets as well.

So, the whole it's just a kids toy argument, no longer holds water.

Edited by Johnny1360

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It's all very simple; Lego releases products that they think will make them money. 

"But Lego sets should be X!"

Well, apparently they think Y is more profitable. 

(I'm not saying it's good or right, but that's how these decisions get made.)

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It is whatever the plot demands from it :laugh:

Seriously though the medium is so versatile and broad, depending on how a model is designed it can be for kids or adults, it's all up to interpretation, design and marketing.

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3 hours ago, mahjqa said:

It's all very simple; Lego releases products that they think will make them money. 

"But Lego sets should be X!"

Well, apparently they think Y is more profitable. 

(I'm not saying it's good or right, but that's how these decisions get made.)

 

2 hours ago, Zerobricks said:

It is whatever the plot demands from it :laugh:

Seriously though the medium is so versatile and broad, depending on how a model is designed it can be for kids or adults, it's all up to interpretation, design and marketing.

Both great comments and I think really summarize things well. 

I feel I am partly to blame for this thread because of the comments I made on the CAT D11 thread.  I won't bore folks with the details, but in summary as specified there... I never meant the reasons specified by @allanp (age and versatility of Lego) as justifications to muzzle anyone regarding the direction Lego decides to go in.  Rather, feel free to comment/complain all you want, but I do see a value in differentiating between preferences as opposed to true faults in design in a set as specified there.  The topic of specific debate in that thread was having each function motorized versus having gearbox which is not a fault of a set.  That is simply a difference of opinion.  Folks complaint about colors of a set, which functions they like, on and on.  One cannot litigate preferences but they debate preferences like their choices should drive TLG decisions.  Which is silly IMO.  I can't think of many examples that portray one's self-centeredness more.  

This is different from voicing concerns about a set in which has a more objective fault.   And before folk's point out the fact one cannot always tell the difference, while true, I think we have enough examples  (faulty gearboxes, poorly attached doors, color variation in parts, etc.) that the point is simultaneously accurate AND irrelevant. 

3 hours ago, Johnny1360 said:

In fact Target has a totally separate section in the store for adult LEGO away from the "kids" LEGO.

This is a rather liberal interpretation wouldn't you say? I have lived in the US for nearly my entire life and been to dozens of Target stores.  Adult sets are grouped together, on a different part of an isle from other Lego sets, but still on the same isle.  I certainly would not say this constitutes a different "section" of the store no more than I would when I separate my dark socks from my light socks in my sock drawer.  Not to mention virtually every store in the US does somewhat the same thing which I image is similar elsewhere (just wanted to clarify because there are many members not in the US on this site). 

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27 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

Rather, feel free to comment/complain all you want, but I do see a value in differentiating between preferences as opposed to true faults in design in a set as specified there.  The topic of specific debate in that thread was having each function motorized versus having gearbox which is not a fault of a set.

I feel this misrepresents what was happening in the other thread. I've just gone over it again - for quite a number of pages towards the end there wasn't any arguing about set features, or at least none that would naturally lead to this discussion about complaining. It was basically just a discussion/speculation about the feasibility of having a subtractor mechanism, and the complexity of sets in general. There were a few negative things mentioned but they weren't really excessive, none that should have triggered this much noise.

It all got derailed when someone assumed that people would complain, I rebutted, then the "Technic is for kids" line got dropped, and suddenly here we are.

Edited by Bartybum

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There are big kids and there are little kids.  Big kids toys are generally more expensive than little kids.  :pir-classic:

 

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This  is going to be a never-ending discussion that will probably restart every time Lego announces a new Technic vehicle, be it a cheaper or more expensive one.

That being said, here are my inputs:

1. Since Lego now offers sets labeled as 18+ the discussion on whether Technic is for kids or adults is moot - it's for both. The question then becomes - when is it for adults and when for kids and where is the crossover line from one to another?

Strictly looking at the 2020 and 2021 lineup for Technic the only two 18+ sets (that I know of) are 42115 Lamborghini Sian and the 42125 Ferrari 488 GTE. As there are plenty of 18- sets that are more complex than the Ferrari (42114 Volvo Hauler) and/or expensive than the Sian (42100 Liebherr R9800) than these, it seems 18+ is restricted for licensed super and hypercars that are at least 1:11 in scale. As more sets will come out, time will tell on how this line will change.

Personally,  however, regardless of whether a set is for kids or adults I'd like to see a bit fewer colors for the underpinnings of the vehicles. I don't mind the odd color here and there and I mostly don't mind the various pin colors either but sometimes it's just a bit too much. Gray and black with a bit of blue or red or green is fine, but when you get hit visually with like 10 different colors and in close proximity as well then - it's not a good look and I don't think kids like it that much either.

2.  Lego wants to maximize profits so they'll try various products. It's difficult to look at a set and consider its value only by piece count. You also need to take into consideration the piece type, size and the model that can result from the pieces.

As a consumer however I can tell when a new product like the 42125 Ferrari is more expensive and doesn't offer any new feature compared to a previous 42096 Porsche RSR set, for instance. Also, the new Ferrari looks to have a rather flimsy chassis and incorrect ride height. I personally like the previous Porsche, even with its flaws and I did retrofit a HOG and an opening hood. I was looking forwards towards adding more such racing cars to my collection, but my interest is going to wane if every time the price is going to increase, while the model will continue to have issues and missing features out of the box. And it's not like we didn't already get some of those features (HOG, everything opens) with last year's 42111 Dom's Dodge Charger.

So I don't mind models not being perfect. I like tinkering with them. But I want to know that the amount of detail and included features are generally on the rise and that the price, while also inevitably rising, remains fair. Adding details to vehicles is something I can like as long as it's my option.

But there's a difference between changing a few panels here and there to constantly having to retrofit HOGs, working suspension, steering, opening doors, trunks or hoods because new models constantly come out without them by standard.

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I know I’m going to hate this thread so I’m going to try and leave this comment and then not return.

I’m approaching 50 and love Technic (my main theme of choice). I love the Ultimate Supercars but now I’m in a phase where actually I’m switching to buying parts not sets to feed my habit and provide new bits for creating MOCs for TC competitions. The main reason is lack of space for storing stuff!  It I do like some of the current sets, just don’t feel the need to buy them.

But also my 9yr old nephew (I don’t have kids myself) is just on the transition into Technic. He got his first sets last year and is now enjoying both System and Technic. His System creations are fantastically random like all kids should do. His Technic interest at the moment is the smaller pullback sets, he just loves them.

Remember Lego is just a plastic construction toy at the end of the day.

<leaves thread>

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They could do better, and I don't really understand why they don't. They have a bunch of dedicated set designers, it's not some parts manufacturing company with the secretary assigned in his/her spare time to design some sets just to have some sets too.

The Technic line will soon fail to the knockoffs if they continue the trend of getting more expensive but not getting better (or getting worse) in building quality. The prize of the new Ferrari is bloody outrageous.

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Ok, historically, Lego Technic was introduced to appeal to the teen/pre-teen Lego customer, so things had to be more intricate and functional, and mimic real world items.  It was a toy that required no glue, no mess, no tools, made no real noise when it’s being assembled, could be done solitary or with multiple people, provided a broad time munching activity that satisfies both parents and child.

Only recent history has Technic moved into Adult level Technic sets, but let’s face it, Lego Technic is not for dummies.  You need some underlying mechanical aptitude to understand what is required to assemble a complex mechanical device.  How many kids actually put together a Technic Star Wars Destroyer Droid and got it to roll and unfold like it was designed?  
 

I don’t waste time arguing about where Lego is going, what they are offering, or my displeasure with any of their recent market trends.  No amount of fan talk is going to make TLG do anything that is not seen as a way to increase sales and maximize profit.

To that end, I take everything TLG does with that in mind and give them a pass on some of their choices, and when they make mistakes, as I see them, I let them know about it by doing what most do, I don’t buy it.  I bought the Liebherr to get a taste of the next control+ motors and hubs, and let’s just say it left a bad taste in my mouth.  The lack of being able to program your own control app for MOCs is the biggest mistake TLG has ever made since they stopped B model integration for every model.

And on the subject of B models, they double the effort needed to create and sell a set in that the development cost of the second model must meet the playability, ease of construction, and quality of the original model, so I see the lack of B models as a major cost reduction for Technic.  Do you see many B models of regular Creator sets? 

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1 hour ago, Bublehead said:

so I see the lack of B models as a major cost reduction for Technic.

Then why haven’t those cost reductions been passed on to the consumer?

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Thanks so much for all the comments guys, it's very insightful. It would appear that many do agree with me while others question the need to argue these points, when Lego will do whatever they feel makes them the most profit regardless of what we think. That's a very fair question and to try to answer that, I'd say it's like commenting/reviewing/critiquing the movies you have watched. We all have our different opinions on the movies, and to want to share them with your mates is only natural (and in no way self centered!). If Hollywood would release nothing but kids movies you can bet many adults would be complaining and suggesting what they think would make for a better movie, and would be quite right to suggest they make more movies for adults to enjoy and that way they would make more money. It's the same for Lego.  Yes Lego is a toy company, but there are two reasons why that is not a useful statement. A, it is a company that's actively seeking to grow its adult fan base, and B, it is a company that's actively seeking to grow its adult fan base. I know that looks like one reason, but I thought it such a big reason I thought I'd mention it twice! (Thanks Kryten!) We can help them by saying what we adults want from them. Sometimes they might not enjoy reading some of the negative feedback, which is understandable. But would it be any better for them if we all were silent and eurobricks and all the other forums and fan sites didn't exist? We all have a need to express our views and they have a use for that also. As long as the comments aren't just "that sucks" and the critisisms are considered and constructive then it's mutually beneficial for us to say what we adult fans want and don't want from them. 

 

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37 minutes ago, Bartybum said:

Then why haven’t those cost reductions been passed on to the consumer?

Exactly.

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Because a higher cost results in more profit. Why would they ask less than most people are willing to pay?

4 hours ago, Lipko said:

They could do better, and I don't really understand why they don't.

I presume they know what they do, and that they have the sales statistics that back up what they're doing.

20 hours ago, iLego said:

I feel that people who rebuild tend to be more lasting customers. They will have a more sustained interest in Lego.

Is Lego marketing foolishly targetting short term profit numbers (horizon of few years) instead of long term (horizon of decades across generations of customers) ? Only time will tell.

Maybe this isn't as true as it was in the past. With the market oversaturating and other brands increasing their game, I think customers will become less and less brand-loyal.

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2 hours ago, Bartybum said:

Then why haven’t those cost reductions been passed on to the consumer?

 Did you miss the part about “maximizing profits”?   Reducing manufacturing cost without lowering MSRP is the exact literal definition of that phrase. It goes hand in hand with meeting the expectations of consumers without changing the price, especially since Lego is flying off the shelves during the pandemic, it is proven fact that we the customers are willing to shell out $430 for a Lamborghini Sian (that’s what I paid at the Lego store including tax) and not blink an eye. So if they can do that without a B model, then why pay for a B model development?  If people are mad about no B models, then they should not buy a Lego set that doesn’t include one. And how long is that going to last? Parents (undoubtedly the largest buying block of Lego consumers) do not care about B models, multiple one function/one motor builds, intelligent hubs, dumb battery boxes, or canceled V-22 sets. They only care about getting something for their child that does one of the following:

Stop the kid from whining/begging

Keep the kid occupied/quiet for 8 hours

Teach the kid some mechanical/engineering concepts maybe?

Have something cool to give them for Christmas or birthdays

One thing I did see when I was buying my Sian at the Lego store, a clerk, when asked by a customer who was buying the Liebherr for his kid/himself how many batteries does it take? said “12 double A’s” and did he do a double take to that...  not every parent is willing to buy a toy that takes 12 batteries all at once... you could see the dollar signs flash in his eyes and his immediate hesitation.   I dIdn’t blame him one bit.

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1 hour ago, Erik Leppen said:

Because a higher cost results in more profit. Why would they ask less than most people are willing to pay?

I presume they know what they do, and that they have the sales statistics that back up what they're doing.

Maybe this isn't as true as it was in the past. With the market oversaturating and other brands increasing their game, I think customers will become less and less brand-loyal.

Since we want to talk markets... the reason the knock offs are so prolific is not that the market for their product is that large outside China, but that the Chinese market for Lego-like sets is larger than most the rest of the world combined, excepting maybe Germany, where Technic flourishes.  The lack of IP protection in China made it a no-brainer to continue to sell in China, so it became a game of whack-a-mole... every time they shut down one knock off, anther would pop up in its place.  It’s also the reason Lego built factories in China, the market demand required it, but their high cost was what led to all the cheaper knock offs rising up in their shadow in the first place.  Especially since development costs were nonexistent since they just ripped off official TLG sets.  But I think the biggest thing TLG could do to take some wind out of the sails and sales of the knock offs is re-releasing retired sets. Who is going to pay collector prices for old sets (or a cheaper knockoff) if TLG is re-release them?  They are sort of doing it by releasing updated versions of older sets (think Star Wars UCS) but that is only a handful of the cherries that the knockoffs have to choose from.

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14 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

 

 

This is a rather liberal interpretation wouldn't you say? I have lived in the US for nearly my entire life and been to dozens of Target stores.  Adult sets are grouped together, on a different part of an isle from other Lego sets, but still on the same isle.  I certainly would not say this constitutes a different "section" of the store no more than I would when I separate my dark socks from my light socks in my sock drawer.  Not to mention virtually every store in the US does somewhat the same thing which I image is similar elsewhere (just wanted to clarify because there are many members not in the US on this site). 

Well in fact this is a very recent change, within the last month or so and yes it is also three aisles away from any other LEGO, so to me that constitutes a different section of the the store. There is also signage inviting adult " collectors". Never saw that before in a retail store but I will admit I don't get around much, so I may be late to the party. Anyway my whole point is that the argument of LEGO is a kids toy just doesn't appear to hold much water any more, that's all.

Edited by Johnny1360

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