Technic is just for kids, and you can build anything so stop complaining!

[TeamThrifty]

2 minutes ago, allanp said:

So why should we suddenly become silent now?

You shouldn't but there are two pretty distinct groups here - 1) people who would like an improvement in certain areas for justifiable reasons, 2) the people that fill page after page of whining about how crap it is and how terrible its all become.

Group 1 i have no issue with at all. Group 2 need to get a grip and move on.

Now belittle is interesting. I said that the group that want perfection to display on a shelf are missing the point of lego. Thats my opinion and is totally supportable by the fact that lego comes to pieces and is designed for moc's. Now its perfectly reasonable for you to say that you want to display them on a shelf and that we disagree... but thats not belittling. That's disagreeing. Disagreeing is fine, people do it all the time. Tagging a disagreement as belittling is escalating an emotional context that doesn't exist and inflates a disagreement to something it isn't... its favourite trick of politicians.

The puncture theme adds context the world we live in where people aren't able or willing to do things for themselves. There is a genuine loss of ability in society, and that bleeds across into wanting perfection from lego. I genuinely couldn't care less about the bugs in official models. I'm buying a building experience and more parts. If it happens to look great and function great too? Bonus. 

People need to be realistic. Its a toy not a swiss watch or a rolls royce. If you want a perfect display piece, diecast models are ideal. If you want the building experience and moc options lego is ideal. Just quit the moaning group 2.. and there's a lot of group 2 on this forum.

14 hours ago, Bartybum said:

I'm happy to wait

You'd best get comfy then sweet cheeks.... If the opinion doesn't fit with your world view, tough. If its not constructive enough for you? Tough. The opening lines of this thread are below. I responded to that. I'm allowed to whether you like it or not. 

2) Lego is designed to be rebuilt to suit your own wants and desires so you should do that instead of expressing your disappointment

verses 

Ain't nobody got time for that! Lego is expensive and should be better out of the box, and besides it's not always possible to build what I want.

You think it was worthless? I think yours is sanctimonious. Unlike you though I won't be waiting for an update 

[allanp]

@TeamThrifty don't get me wrong, it's fine to disagree. I started this topic so we could disagree and hear all views. But you appeared to compare those that disagree to those that can't do anything for themselves which I felt was belittling. Maybe I misunderstood you?

I don't think anyone is asking for a display diecast model that just sits in a shelf. I'm not sure why you mention that. Indeed creator expert (or whatever it is now) would be better for that. But if someone is going to spend lots of money on a premium Technic supercar I think it's only fair for them to expect the functions to work correctly. They did fix the suspension with the Sian but they replaced that issue with the issue of horrible and cheap looking colour inconsistencies. Now how are we supposed to fix that ourselves as you suggest when TLG don't make parts in consistent colours anymore? Just because someone can fix a puncture, why should they have to on a brand new tyre? In the same way why should we have to redesign their suspension and overly complicated gearboxes to work correctly. The Sian gearbox has enough friction to break gears if you push it too hard, this shouldn't be the case and doesn't have to be the case if they would make them more realistic. You might enjoy that process of problem solving that which should already have been fixed but not everyone does. You might view sets only as starting points but again, not everyone does. Having the option to MOC is fantastic but being forced to MOC shouldn't be considered a selling point for premium sets. Of course I'd like you to share why you disagree with me or anyone else. You say people need to be more realistic, ok cool but then say what people have asked of Lego that is unrealistic, bearing in mind that no-one has asked for perfection. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by allanp

[NKubate]

@TeamThrifty Considering that I was the one bringing up the sagging suspension issue I feel like I have to set the record straight here. To begin with I have not a single official Technic set on display. Actually that's a lie, because I have a 8674 Ferrari F1 and a 8292 Cherrypicker here, sets that I designed myself when I worked at TLG, so basically they are MOCs to me. But other than my own work, nope, no Technic sets on display, because to me that totally goes against the nature of Lego bricks, which purpose is to be creative with. I have built many MOC's over the years and still design and create models today. However, sometimes I need a break from building MOC's and just want to enjoy building an official set without having to think too much. Then I expect an excellent experience, but unfortunately flaws in the design and parts ruin the joy for me. Could I fix the sagging suspension? With my background you bet I can! But why should I have to fix a company's mess, especially when they consider themselves premium and charge premium prices? Should I not demand and expect them to deliver premium quality then?!

And regarding the whining all the time I like to point out the total number of posts under my name. The reason I post so little here is because I also have problems with people whining all the time or talking rubbish about things they absolutely know nothing about. I have first hand experience with all the parameters Lego designers have to work within and the challenges that come with developing a Technic model. Furthermore I'm a design engineer teaching engineering skills at a university, because it scares the absolute crap out of me how little people nowadays know about simple technical problems like repairing a punctured tire. 

So next time you post something like this, please do a bit of research before expressing such prejudice. It's indeed utter lunacy.

 

[brunojj1]

Nice "discussion" around here, very entertaining ! 

I have developed that kind of shizophreny: I buy and collect the Lego Technic supercars (original), no matter how good or bad or ridiculously expensive they are. Starting with nostalgic 8865 + 8880 to keep those sweet memories . I will also buy the worst Techis set of all times, the 42125 Flexari, build it all original, except the suspension lowered as it is supposed to be. Together on one shelf with the old Racers Ferraris and the Porsche RSR to complete the lineup. The USC 1/8 cars on the same shelf. Btw. my 5y old daughter likes the latter very much because of the handbags to play with, so that´s mostly the reason I take them off the shelf sometimes .

On the second shelf I put my own creations on display. Sometimes I take them off the shelf to play with, check the functions or put some different wheels on. This way I can overcome the sorrow I would have with the models on the other shelf if standing alone. No whining, no complaining at all  . 

[Maaboo the Witch]

For anyone affected by my "specialized parts" post, be advised that it was more of a reflective question than an actual statement. I probably should have qualified it as such earlier.

And hey, I'm not here to blast TLG into the ground either. I do have problems with some of the trends that have emerged recently, but luckily there's still loads to be excited about too. There's been some cool stuff this year, and I'm looking forward to seeing the upcoming sets as well.

And @NKubate - love hearing the insights from a pro! Makes me wish more designers were on this forum.

[monetarist]

On 2/9/2021 at 9:05 AM, johncarpenter said:

Hmm, I don't really agree with this one. I think that parents do value the B model, simply because it provides twice the value, i.e. the kid is occupied for 16 hours instead of 8.

I think this is also what helps justify the high Lego price tags in the eyes of parents, as "it is expensive, but you can build 2 models with this set". For a parent, not having a B model needs that they will need to buy another set sooner.

I guess that this may contribute to profits short term, as it encourages buying more sets. However, in the long run, I fear that it will only accelerate the move to other brands, as it will get harder and harder for many parents to justify paying the higher and higher price tags.

As a parent and someone who is frequently asked by other parents about what to buy I can only confirm that. However, even without me saying anything I noticed that sets from the competition start to appear in the playrooms. Here in Germany that is mostly Cobi. I was flabbergasted to find CaDa two weaks ago (yes that one) as i lend a hand in a renovation.

Lego truly needs to worry, as recent models such as the Ferrari are perceived as overpriced rubbish. Granted, Germany may be an exception as a very prominent youtuber is promoting the competition.

Also, something I did not find here. The need for a device to play with Technic/Hidden Side and other Lego is a real concern for 100% of the parents I know. My sample might not be representative but all the parents of children below 12 or so see that as a no. The reason is that they purchase Lego to get the kids away from the screen. Past 12 some see that as a positive if they like their kids to learn programming but not otherwise and this is a rare case. All the Lego that needs a tablet or phone to operate is pretty much off the table.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by monetarist

[Gray Gear]

@johncarpenter I have to agree. But back when I was a kid (I am 22yo now so that wasn't that long ago lol) I was never able to build any B-Models because my parents didn't want me to have a computer or a smartphone until I was 15yo . Printed B-Model instructions would have helped promote B-model popularity I am sure!

When I finally got my own and smartphone I had long passed the point where building official models was challenging or a lot of fun, I was always more of the MOC builder. So I basically didn't build any of the b-models 

 

@TeamThrifty Imagine you were to buy a new sportscar for 500.000$, and as soon as you brought it home from the stealership you realize the alignment is off, and there is a whole lot of breaking fluid leaking onto your garage floor. Some gearhead might be like "I dont really care, I wanted to put on some aftermarket wheels and upgrade to metal break lines anyways". That is you in in your comment above. But most people rightfully expect the car to just work.  The ordinary person doesn't know how to fix the issues, and does not want to have to fix issues themselves when they paid a goddamn premium already.

[Bublehead]

Quite a passionate bunch in here...   I agree with the comment about needing a device to “play” with a set.  Requiring a smartphone or tablet to use the toy is a slippery slope that a lot of toy manufacturers believe they need to take a couple steps out onto... being left behind due to technology is a nightmare scenario many toy makers have been battling with for decades.  The loss of so much revenue to video games and gaming consoles has had them scrambling to keep up, especially when hybrid building systems have taken a big chunk out of your potential customers.  Minecraft and Roblox has been embraced by kids and there is no physical bricks involved at all.  I believe they should keep the Mindstorms aspect out of Technic and keep the part about using a smart device more in the educational sector.  The Control+ hub and smart device combo is cool, it does neat things, but does it do anything to teach kids about how to program, or develop their own Control+ models?  I think a Bluetooth or wireless interface to a dedicated controller would have been a better option, I would have rather seen them improve their RC capabilities by ditching the IR interface for something more reliable outside the playroom.  That being said, I have been pretty happy with the parts they have added to the catalog over the last 10 years, my only complaint is the wait and see mindset we all have to adopt as we wait for them to fill in the missing spots on the color wheel of ALL the different elements (like panels, flexible axles, and wheel arches) which should be available in ALL colors if they REALLY wanted to keep my dedication to the brand.

[allanp]

@NKubate I would love to know more about the specific parameters that designers have to work in. I know the basic ones like, it has to be safe and all that, but specifically (if you are allowed to share of course). What requests or demands have you seen in these forums are completely unrealistic? 

I remember one wish I had, and that was for motorised large models to move much more smoothly. It always annoyed me just a little when wheels would stop momentarily then jerk forward with every obstacle they hit. So I wanted silky smooth, jerk free movement as if the gears and axles were made of steel. But Lego is plastic, it will always be jerky right? So surely to want that silky smooth jerk free movement is an unrealistic expectation right? Turns out not so. With the new planetary reduction hubs from 42099 we can now have exactly that. And in any vehicle that uses planetary final drives like bulldozers, excavators, most heavy duty trucks and so on they are mechanically authentic also. Big well done to whoever designed that piece. 

So I think what can seem like an unrealistic expectation today can be a reality tomorrow with the right new parts. But is there anything (like for example presumably hydraulics) that will always be an unrealistic expectation, and therefore to continuously ask for them is basically just useless whining?

[Maaboo the Witch]

10 minutes ago, allanp said:

@NKubate I would love to know more about the specific parameters that designers have to work in. I know the basic ones like, it has to be safe and all that, but specifically (if you are allowed to share of course). What requests or demands have you seen in these forums are completely unrealistic?

I'll second that. I'm fascinated with the design process and what goes into creating a set.

[TeamThrifty]

18 hours ago, NKubate said:

So next time you post something like this, please do a bit of research before expressing such prejudice. It's indeed utter lunacy.

You've assumed it was aimed at you.. in actual fact i don't recall ever reading one of your posts, and as you point out, the low number clearly suggests i wasn't referring to you....

 

18 hours ago, NKubate said:

expressing such prejudice. It's indeed utter lunacy.

...its not prejudice. Definition: Opinion formed beforehand without knowledge. 

My opinion is formed after the event based on the actual whining and moaning. So once again we have members of the forum using overly emotional (and technically incorrect) words to undermine an alternative view, when all it really is is a disagreement. Man-up people and accept disagreement without resorting to inflammatory and incorrect words... disagree with me by all means, i accept your right to disagree with me! But accept my right have a different opinion to you without accusing me of Belittling and Prejudice.. i'm doing neither. We simply disagree.

[brunojj1]

On 2/12/2021 at 11:30 PM, TeamThrifty said:

....

ADULTS?! What has happened to these people that they're so incapable of anything that punctures are an engineering challenge (i fixed my own from age 6 on my bmx..), and lego has to be perfect otherwise it offends people's entitled sensibilities?

Utter lunacy.

...

Poor sensitive souls...

Your wording was offensive, although I personally can live with that as well. Presenting dry facts in a boring manner is ... well, boring to read. It was your opinion expressed with some passion, emphasized by some strong words and you got an adequate answer . Let´s remember we are not dealing with some outraged Twitter mob here, so there is a way to be polite and express yourself as gentlemen.

Edit: too political 

Edited February 14, 2021 by brunojj1

[2GodBDGlory]

16 hours ago, Bublehead said:

I believe they should keep the Mindstorms aspect out of Technic and keep the part about using a smart device more in the educational sector.  The Control+ hub and smart device combo is cool, it does neat things, but does it do anything to teach kids about how to program, or develop their own Control+ models?  I think a Bluetooth or wireless interface to a dedicated controller would have been a better option, I would have rather seen them improve their RC capabilities by ditching the IR interface for something more reliable outside the playroom.

Well, a physical controller would be ideal for the vast majority of users, but for me at least, the only attraction of PU is the programmability, which allows for modeling of more complex features than was previously possible in Technic, unless one could put up with enormous Mindstorms hubs and motors. Perhaps a physical remote with a smart-device option would have been the best. At least the lack of a controller might keep the cost of PU sets a little closer to reason than it might otherwise be!

[Bartybum]

7 hours ago, TeamThrifty said:

My opinion is formed after the event based on the actual whining and moaning. So once again we have members of the forum using overly emotional (and technically incorrect) words to undermine an alternative view, when all it really is is a disagreement. Man-up people and accept disagreement without resorting to inflammatory and incorrect words... disagree with me by all means, i accept your right to disagree with me! But accept my right have a different opinion to you without accusing me of Belittling and Prejudice.. i'm doing neither. We simply disagree.

Which event was that?

Edited February 14, 2021 by Bartybum

[DrJB]

This has got to be the busiest thread ever ... my phone keeps on beeping every time there is an update. Either people are very passionate about this topic, or this confinement is making us very 'engaged' hobbyists.

We've heard many opinions so far, so, what's the final verdict? Have we reached a consensus or is it all over the spectrum? I'd lean towards the latter as we all come here with different interests, expectations, history, time, budget, ... disappointments too.

It would be interesting to move past the venting/praising and turn this topic into a Poll, with each of the original questions graded from 0 to 10. Maybe then, we can give some feedback to TLG as to how "We, the dedicated/faithful AFOL Community who refuses to buy any copykat from PRC and willing to spend $450 on the CAT dozer, truly feel". Of course we can also add questions like:

1. Technic is getting expensive

2. It is the beginning of the end for TLG - or another cycle ?

3. All of these are perceptions from the older AFOLs ... with the new younger hobbyists, they have nothing to compare to, and thus will be happy whatever you throw at them ...

Thoughts?

Edited February 15, 2021 by DrJB

[JintaiZ]

On 2/14/2021 at 6:33 PM, DrJB said:

It would be interesting to move past the venting/praising and turn this topic into a Poll

Let's see how this goes. 

link

Edit: Thank you to the 42 people who took their time to answer the poll. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by JintaiZ

[DrJB]

Thank you. I gave it a 3/10 ... Interesting that so far, it looks like we'll have equal wedges on those pie charts  :)

Edited February 15, 2021 by DrJB

[JintaiZ]

9 minutes ago, DrJB said:

Thank you. I gave it a 3/10 ... Interesting that so far, it looks like we'll have equal wedges on those pie charts  :)

I'd actually say the majority voted (and will vote) 10/10.  The rest of the wedges will probably be equal.

[DrJB]

If your prediction is confirmed ... I'd hate to be an outlier, but then again, it's just a poll, no right or wrong either way.

[dr_spock]

The poll appears to be limited to those with Google accounts.

 

[JintaiZ]

1 minute ago, dr_spock said:

The poll appears to be limited to those with Google accounts.

 

This is the only way to prevent people from voting multiple times.

[dr_spock]

Not really, some people have multiple accounts.

 

[allanp]

No worries, I shall add a poll to this topic soon.

[howitzer]

10 hours ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

Well, a physical controller would be ideal for the vast majority of users, but for me at least, the only attraction of PU is the programmability, which allows for modeling of more complex features than was previously possible in Technic, unless one could put up with enormous Mindstorms hubs and motors. Perhaps a physical remote with a smart-device option would have been the best. At least the lack of a controller might keep the cost of PU sets a little closer to reason than it might otherwise be!

You should familiarize yourself with the newest Mindstorms hub, it's about the same size as the PF battery box and the large number of different kinds of motors give a lot of flexibility in design. You can also use a gaming controller if you want a physical remote. Of course using all that requires a significant amount of programming effort but the possibilities are there.

[TeamThrifty]

10 hours ago, Bartybum said:

Which event was that?

The 'event' is the massive amount of moaning every time a new flagship comes out.. Every major release for the last 3 years gets slated hugely. Too many pieces, PU vs C+, price, suspension, gearbox, colour vomit.. etc etc. 

My opinion is based on the endless negative posts, so is evidence based.