Technic is just for kids, and you can build anything so stop complaining!

[doug72]

9 hours ago, TeamThrifty said:

The 'event' is the massive amount of moaning every time a new flagship comes out.. Every major release for the last 3 years gets slated hugely. Too many pieces, PU vs C+, price, suspension, gearbox, colour vomit.. etc etc. 

My opinion is based on the endless negative posts, so is evidence based. 

Totally agree, the pre-annual reviews etc. clog up the front page, pushing more interesting topics out of sight

Reviews were made After a new model is actually official released, endless speculations are a waste of time.

Be patient and be satisfied with things, if you don,t like a new Lego release, don,t buy it.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Doug72

[Bartybum]

2 hours ago, TeamThrifty said:

My opinion is based on the endless negative posts, so is evidence based. 

It would've been helpful to say that you're not addressing anyone in this thread in that case, as that was my and clearly a lot of others' impression.

[Bartybum]

Also, I feel it's worth pointing out to consider that it's also your opinion that Lego shouldn't sit on a shelf.

Fixing flaws in a set is only appropriate for someone who has multiple sets (and therefore the pieces to spare) and is happy to take them apart for MOCs - there are many people who bought the Chiron just because they wanted to build it, and therefore expect that for the hefty $600AUD pricetag it'll at least have stiff enough springs not to sag. If a new consumer doesn't have the extra springs to mod it, then they're sh*t out of luck until either they get reamed by Bricklink's shipping costs, or they spend extra money buying yet another pReMiUm Lego set that has the amount of springs they need to fix it. It's sh*tty product development and TLG should absolutely be called out for charging consumers a premium just to serve them a faulty product. It might be trivial to you, but not to others.

MOCing may be the point of Lego to you, but some people just wanna put together a sports car, excavator or whatever and have the satisfaction of it working as it should. It isn't utter lunacy to want that experience, especially when you're giving away $600AUD for that.

By the way, duh obviously there are courses teaching people to fix tube punctures - they're part of bike service courses. Like damn dude, there's different things that may not be immediately obvious when you go from zero mechanical experience to a full bike service. F*** anyone who didn't have your galaxy brain when they were six, and wants to know whether there are special tips for surface prep, and doing something according to manufacturing specs, right? How dare they take a course

Edited February 15, 2021 by Bartybum

[JaBaCaDaBra]

4 hours ago, TeamThrifty said:

the massive amount of moaning every time a new flagship comes out

I'm afraid that I fully endorse this.
The most beautyfull designs pass here but there's always the never ending moaning.
Even worse, there has never been one single set where there were no complaints.

1 hour ago, Bartybum said:

If a new consumer doesn't have the extra springs to mod it, then they're sh*t out of luck until either they get reamed by Bricklink's shipping costs, or they spend extra money buying yet another pReMiUm Lego set that has the amount of springs they need to fix it.

I just mailed support and received a new set of springs.

[allanp]

Looks like I need to add a few more questions when I finally get time to do the poll  which should be tonight.

Regarding the amount of complaining, surely it's to be somewhat expected as you can't please everyone. The closest anyone got to that was with the Arocs but even that isn't without some complaining. We all have different tastes, but I do agree that complaints in general should be more constructive. Instead of "this sucks" it would be better to have "It would be better if...."

 

[JintaiZ]

Fixed the poll so you shouldn't need a google account to respond, sorry about that.

[Gray Gear]

1 hour ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

I just mailed support and received a new set of springs.

New springs for the Bugatti? Afaik the problem on the Bugatti wern't faulty springs but bad suspension design...

How did that fix the problem?

Edited February 15, 2021 by Gray Gear

[JaBaCaDaBra]

2 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

New springs for the Bugatti? Afaik the problem on the Bugatti wern't faulty springs but bad suspension design...

How did that fix the problem?

It did not
When they answered me that they would send new springs I allready knew that this was not the problem at all.
But okay, 8 springs extra is no reason to complain

[TeamThrifty]

3 hours ago, Bartybum said:

F*** anyone who didn't have your galaxy brain when they were six

firstly its a bike puncture, not rocket science, so just requires some common sense and a bit of effort.. not a galaxy sized brain. Secondly it was used an example of the fecklessness that is infecting people. Its valid in itself, but was actually more about the bigger picture... 

4 hours ago, Doug72 said:

Be patient and be satisfied with things, if you don,t like a new Lego release, don,t buy it.

Exactly. Don't fill pages saying how TLG are useless and the sets are crap and over priced and even the company cat is to blame.... because the page after page of petulant strops on this site sometimes makes you wonder about the 'A' in afol. There are many sets i have no interest in or don't like, but i very rarely even mention it. I don't cry and bitch endlessly... it really does come across badly. 

And then if someone dares to criticise those people?! A different opinion?!!! Wow... dummies are spat and people get 'offended' by a disagreement. Offended?!!! What happened to 'agree to disgree'.. doesn't exist anymore. Snowflake-ism is spreading and everyone gets offended by a difference of opinion.

Passionately debate and defend, but leave emotions at the door...different opinions are a way of life.

1 hour ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

Even worse, there has never been one single set where there were no complaints.

Its the negative message it sends to TLG that i wonder about. Imagine spending months/years developing something amazing within the many many constraints of marketing and budgets etc.. only to be greeted by endless slagging off?

Who here would want to be a Lego designer? Most of you would say Yes, but how many could take the stream of abuse from this forum..... think about that next time you call for TLG to be shot at dawn.

[allanp]

@TeamThrifty So you complain that people aren't allowed to have a different opinion (despite this whole topic encouraging exactly that) and then you complain when people complain which is basically just having a different opinion than you. Then you complain about people being snowflakes and using emotive language while you yourself fill a post with emotive language basically being a snowflake. Like seriously, how are we supposed to have an adult conversation when you yourself can't even stick to your own rules? Have any opinion you want, I really don't care, but pick a side man. And how is TLG supposed to gleam any insight from forums like this when you keep posting complaint after complaint about other people's complaints? You are being exactly what you say you're against.

Edited February 15, 2021 by allanp

[Lipko]

I don't care to look it up, it probably has some psychology term, but the moaning you see is the usual "complain bias" thing. Complainers are always much more loud, simply because likers don't feel to urge to write down the millionth "I liked it very much" comment. EDIT: It's especially strange to complain about complains in a thread that was meant to complain about Lego.

Anyways, the complains have to be divided into two groups: parts and sets. I, for example, only complain about sets. Because I do love the evolution that parts have gone through, and I don't like the slow but noticeable de-evolution of set quality.

The Ferrari I found outrageous because it would be an awesome parts pack but the prize pretty much rules it out as one. Same goes for almost everything being licensed. And I hate purchasing stuff on the net, so you can guess how much of a pain in my ***** buying parts is. So even if I'm not that affected about set quality, I am affected in general. (It's just hypothetical, I only do DUPLO MOCs since 2 years)

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Lipko

[DrJB]

Well, based on some of the latest answers ... I'm tempted to say we have more kids on here than adults.

It is human nature after all, to complain about everything, isn't it ?  Some say we're born with that ...

... But it takes a 'grown-up' to see the positive in every situation (set/part) and either focus on that and get their joy, or take a pass and move on to something else.

Edited February 15, 2021 by DrJB

[Bublehead]

Well, so have we devolved from a discussion on Technic to a flame war about disagreement?!?!  

Can I just say, Lighten up Francis!

We are discussing a hobby/pastime/toy, right?  In the realm of all things, can we not agree that TLG is a company out to make money by selling overpriced injection molded plastic at a markup to parents who would be willingly to kill a small herd of furry beasts just for 5 minutes of peace and quiet from their children?  We can talk about the things TLG does to create a glowing persona of their corporate image as a concerned, responsive, and responsible organization and that it is equally passionate towards their customers and end users (parents and children, respectively) as parents are about the welfare and development of the children.

This is a reputation that must be nurtured and protected, and guided by the pitfalls of being a corporate entity in a cut throat toy manufacturing industry.  A lot of the decisions made by TLG is not based on keeping this “good will” aurora intact but just simply keeping the company afloat.  At the end of the day, all that “good will” goes out the door along with the baby and the bath water if the cost of that “good will” exceeds the profitability of the goods and services that are being supplied. We must realize, when we complain about any aspect of TLG’s decisions we may be actually be arguing for the companies demise as opposed to their success?

I have been buying Technic Lego for forty, yes, “4” and “0” years and I have been “mad as heck” over a lot of the decisions that TLG has made in those 40 years.  I have scratched my head more times than seems possible over 40 years and one thing has been a constant...  no matter what I have asked for, posted about, or otherwise complained about or denigrated them for, they (TLG) have NEVER ever gone in the direction I have thought they ought to...   

So, much of what is being posted here is going to have the exact same affect... which is not a whole lot, so why don’t we take it down a few notches on the drama scale?

[allanp]

Poll is now ready to vote. I wanted to also ask about licencing but ran out of questions 

Edited February 15, 2021 by allanp

[JintaiZ]

Hopefully the poll is ready. 

1. I had a hard time deciding which one to choose, so I won't elaborate on it.

2. Technic is definitely aimed at experienced builders; even TLG themselves states that Technic is one of the most challenging themes. Despite the age labels (which feels a little bit random), the sets still appeal to adults.

There are a few more things that TLG could have done:
1) Include an introduction section to all licensed sets
2) Use printed parts instead of stickers, unless it is a racecar or something...
3) Use black pins, blue pins are made for easy assembly but I don't think they are necessary.

3. Obviously mechanisms because that is what Technic is all about! I also voted authentic because I care about both playability and displayability. I'm not a parts collector, so I didn't vote any of the options related to parts. Remote control vehicles are cool, but RC sets are usually overpriced.

[NKubate]

On 2/14/2021 at 3:36 PM, TeamThrifty said:

You've assumed it was aimed at you.. in actual fact i don't recall ever reading one of your posts, and as you point out, the low number clearly suggests i wasn't referring to you....

It was indeed an assumption based on how you formulated some of your arguments, which was a bit confusing to me. In that case my apologies and glad that we straightened that out. I can agree with many of your points, but I'm probably a bit too "political".

48 minutes ago, DrJB said:

Well, based on some of the latest answers ... I'm tempted to say we have more kids on here than adults.

It is human nature after all, to complain about everything, isn't it ?  Some say we're born with that ...

... But it takes a 'grown-up' to see the positive in every situation (set/part) and either focus on that and get their joy, or take a pass and move on to something else.

Which is why I am hardly active here. I got so many times either flamed for my posts or completely ignored that I can't be bothered anymore. Sure it is in people their nature to complain, but in particularly arguments seem to escalate on the Internet where everything becomes polarized. Instead of posting on forums open to everyone I prefer just to write my point of view through blogs and leave it at that. If people really want to discuss things they are always welcome to contact me and I will gladly continue discussing things behind the scenes. I'm really not that hard to find or reach, it just requires a little extra effort. But we're getting way off-topic now...

[Gimmick]

First question, first problem: Older/more experienced builders.

That's not the same.

Second qustion, same problem: There are so many adults out there who have no idea what they're building - but they like it anyway. I'm almost sure when TLG talk about "adult audience" they are not saying "experienced" for a reason. You should have made separate answers out of this (as TLG should have made seperate subthemes ;D).

Edited February 15, 2021 by Gimmick

[Maaboo the Witch]

@allanp - "Accessibility" is misspelled in the relevant title. You might want to fix that.

[Zerobricks]

Oof, this topic sure took off, though I'm not sure if in the proper direction.

Anyway, you WILL NEVER be able to please everyone.

On one hand you have experienced builders who don't need color coding, can put together complex asemblies, gearboxes, etc with ease and will critisize TLG when a set has been too simplified/gutted/color coded (BLUE PINS EWWW)

On the other hand you have people creating WHY DOESN'T MY VOLVO WORK or MY WHEELS SPIN IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS topics - I think that summarizes their building skills.

TLG has to somehow cater to both extremes which is why there have to be sacrifes on both fronts. Another way I think they are also solving this issue is simply by releasing more sets where you can distinctly see the target audience - Pullbacks vs 42115 for example.

Having said that, they need to fix their 18+ marketing, cause currently it's very messy - looking at you 42125. Why are you 18+? You have no gearbox, no motors, no complex mechanisms, are they afraid kids will break the rather subpar and flimsy model?

Edited February 15, 2021 by Zerobricks

[allanp]

10 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

@allanp - "Accessibility" is misspelled in the relevant title. You might want to fix that.

Thank you. Corrected 

13 minutes ago, Gimmick said:

First question, first problem: Older/more experienced builders.

That's not the same.

Second qustion, same problem: There are so many adults out there who have no idea what they're building - but they like it anyway. I'm almost sure when TLG talk about "adult audience" they are not saying "experienced" for a reason. You should have made separate answers out of this (as TLG should have made seperate subthemes ;D).

Hmmmm, that's a good point. I get where you are coming from, but as votes have already been cast I probably shouldn't change the wording of it now.

[howitzer]

Meh, I voted and then more questions were added and now I can't add my vote to those. Apparently there's no way to recast my vote?

[XenoRad]

5 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

On one hand you have experienced builders who don't need color coding, can put together complex asemblies, gearboxes, etc with ease and will critisize TLG when a set has been too simplified/gutted/color coded (BLUE PINS EWWW) 

On the other hand you have people creating WHY DOESN'T MY VOLVO WORK or MY WHEELS SPIN IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS topics - I think that summarizes their building skills.

TLG has to somehow cater to both extremes which is why there have to be sacrifes on both fronts. Another way I think they are also solving this issue is simply by releasing more sets where you can distinctly see the target audience - Pullbacks vs 42115 for example.

Having said that, they need to fix their 18+ marketing, cause currently it's very messy - looking at you 42125. Why are you 18+? You have no gearbox, no motors, no complex mechanisms, are they afraid kids will break the rather subpar and flimsy model?

I think some of the building issues like differentials being mounted the wrong way or gearboxes not being aligned properly can be better mitigated via the instructions rather than the color coding. Lego does highlight the orientation of parts but perhaps it's still too subtle for some.

 

Regarding the color coding I believe it could be used much more intelligently. Right now Lego seems content with throwing the odd colored part here and there. A better choice would probably be to color code different sub-assemblies. So that the engine has one color, the gearbox another, the suspension another and the chassis another and make these easily recognizable against each-other while also still somewhat consistent in the grey-black palette.

 

18+ right now looks like marketing to get higher prices on some licensed sets and that's about it. If you ask me, there'd be plenty more 18- builders that would do a much better job assembling those sets without fault than their older counterparts.

[Gray Gear]

Other Brands are readily taking advantage of the fact that LEGO sets are getting more and more expensive, while the part count and model complexity decreases. They cater to the rapidly growing adult audience with sets  that are actually for adults, or offer affordable sets to familys that are not able to afford the increasing prices. TLG now has competition, and sooner or later they will have to adapt in ways that don't involve lawyers. It might not be that apparent now, but big changes are happening, and I am happy, because TLG will be forced to improve to stay competitive. I hope for a Golden Age of bricks, caused by competition of Brands. And we customers are happy, because there is no longer a monopoly we can now choose what Brand to buy. LEGO, or maybe something else...

[Dazzzy]

Personally i think the 18+ marketing is more to do with the pricing aspect, rather than the expected skill level needed. 

I'd have to check it out to be sure, but it seems the majority of 18+ sets (if not all, well with the exception of architecture sets), all seem to be licensed IP's in some shape or form. And i think this is Lego's way of passing on those costs to the customer. 

 

Another thing maybe to consider is, some parents may use the 18+ box markings as a tool.  Imagine a kid just getting into Technic for the first time, sees the big racing car or big construction machine set etc, and without true understanding and appreciation of the cost of the expensive model, asks the parent if they can buy it for them. The parent can now use the age marking on the box to help guide and argue the case, for something more (albeit on the surface) in line to the kids age range and at a lower price point, which i image would have many parents wallets sighing with relief.  

 

[JaBaCaDaBra]

32 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

competition of Brands

Since certain criminal "brands" only are able to copy/steal ideas of others there is no competition at all.
Not in "brickworld".
Other technical toys like Fischertechnik, Knex etc are hardly able to match the wonderfull world of LEGO
F.A. FT was much further in the 70 with their technical options but lost due to playability.