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Brickander Brickumnus

NONE of the 10K Pirate LEGO Ideas Submissions have been approved!

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9 hours ago, Brickander Brickumnus said:

Caribbean ClipperThe Fortress - Imperial Army and Seagull Bay Lighthouse Imperial Fortress were not approved. :pir-cry_sad:
 

From 35 projects that were qualified for reviewing, one was chosen. 

No a big surprise since Lego probably working on something similar do to the massive success of B-Bay :pir-wink: Several similar sets where even removed from Ideas before they could reach 10 000 or was stopped at the door when they where submitted. So that is a clear hint, why they do not do the same for modulars etc I do not know *huh*

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1 hour ago, Darnok said:

I take this as a positive sign for upcoming Pirates sets, similar to what @Roebuck said.

But could this be blind optimism?

Or could 2021 be 6 years after the previous wave of pirate sets and we're due for a new wave? :pir-oh:

Time will tell...

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2 minutes ago, Mister Phes said:

But could this be blind optimism?

Or could 2021 be 6 years after the previous wave of pirate sets and we're due for a new wave? :pir-oh:

Time will tell...

I think and hope they make fewer sets aimed more at AFOLs than a standard wave of sets aimed at kids. We really need a imperial base like Eldorado fortress remade instead of a 50 dollar fort. I would not mind if they do both, a big imperial set and then smaller sets aided at kids that in addition can add detail to the bigger set :pir-thumb:

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3 minutes ago, Roebuck said:

I think and hope they make fewer sets aimed more at AFOLs than a standard wave of sets aimed at kids.

That's wishful thinking because children are the target audience for waves, whereas exclusives and LEGO Ideas are aimed towards AFOLs.

3 minutes ago, Roebuck said:

We really need a imperial base like Eldorado fortress remade instead of a 50 dollar fort.

You're not wrong there! A gigantic Imperial Armada Fortress is just what we need! :pir-devil:

3 minutes ago, Roebuck said:

 I would not mind if they do both, a big imperial set and then smaller sets aided at kids that in addition can add detail to the bigger set :pir-thumb:

That's what was done back in 2009... a wave of sets aimed at kids and then the Imperial Flagship around 6 months later aimed at AFOLs.

But that was before LEGO Ideas came into prominence so the game may have changed since then.

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I was really hoping for the Caribbean Clipper, as I think it's one of the most wonderful Ideas sets ever. Though I didn't believe in it, I expected them to reject it. A huge shame though. It would have been worth buying for the sails alone.

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13 minutes ago, Mister Phes said:

That's wishful thinking because children are the target audience for waves, whereas exclusives and LEGO Ideas are aimed towards AFOLs.

I meant one set a year like a creator expert for pirates, it still may be wishful thinking :pir_tong2:
 

16 minutes ago, Mister Phes said:

You're not wrong there! A gigantic Imperial Armada Fortress is just what we need! 

Haha, no I think the pirate theme went downhill after -94 much like the rest of the company:pir_wacko:
 

21 minutes ago, Mister Phes said:

That's what was done back in 2009... a wave of sets aimed at kids and then the Imperial Flagship around 6 months later aimed at AFOLs.

But that was before LEGO Ideas came into prominence so the game may have changed since then.

And it was great, but as you say the game may have changed since then so a single Eldorado fortress super duper set could happen

:pir-laugh:

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5 minutes ago, Roebuck said:

Haha, no I think the pirate theme went downhill after -94 much like the rest of the company:pir_wacko:

Indeed, but that was 25+ years ago and reflective of the direction the LEGO Group was taking towards all of its themes. I.e. a more minimalist approach to set design with larger elements and smaller piece counts.

However, that doesn't mean, if done properly, an Imperial Armada themed fortress could not be AWESOME!

The Spanish were major players in the New World and their distinct architecture has not been properly represented in LEGO form - so there are plenty of possibilities to take the Imperial Armada theme in a more interesting direction.

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1 minute ago, Mister Phes said:

Indeed, but that was 25+ years ago and reflective of the direction the LEGO Group was taking towards all of its themes. I.e. a more minimalist approach to set design with larger elements and smaller piece counts.

However, that doesn't mean, if done properly, an Imperial Armada themed fortress could not be AWESOME.

The Spanish were major players in the New World and their distinct architecture has not been properly represented in LEGO form.

No of course that is right, however I have grown up with the original bluecoats and stopped collecting pirates sets in the beginning of the redcoats era before I came out of the dark ages, so I want that :pir-sweet: I believe most of the pirate fans wants either blue- or redcoats now, then further down the line of sets we can start discussing Armada sets :pir-huzzah1:

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8 minutes ago, Roebuck said:

No of course that is right, however I have grown up with the original bluecoats and stopped collecting pirates sets in the beginning of the redcoats era before I came out of the dark ages, so I want that

Me too. Towards the end of 1993 was when I went into my Dark Age, so that was year 2 of the Imperial Guards.

I didn't discover the Imperial Armada until 2001.

9 minutes ago, Roebuck said:

I believe most of the pirate fans wants either blue- or redcoats now, then further down the line of sets we can start discussing Armada sets :pir-huzzah1:

Most Pirate fans probably do want blue or redcoats.  But when is "further down the line"?

Red Coats were released in 2009/10 and Blue Coats were released in 2015, so we're currently 12 years further down the line.

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4 hours ago, Roebuck said:

No a big surprise since Lego probably working on something similar do to the massive success of B-Bay :pir-wink: Several similar sets where even removed from Ideas before they could reach 10 000 or was stopped at the door when they where submitted. So that is a clear hint, why they do not do the same for modulars etc I do not know *huh*

 

4 hours ago, Darnok said:

I take this as a positive sign for upcoming Pirates sets, similar to what @Roebuck said.

I think this is kind of blind optimism, like @Mister Phes said.

2 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

But could this be blind optimism?

Or could 2021 be 6 years after the previous wave of pirate sets and we're due for a new wave? :pir-oh:

Time will tell...

My only thought and hope is that they are planning to release a new wave of Pirates, when the new Pirates of the Caribbean movies come out.

1 hour ago, Mister Phes said:

Most Pirate fans probably do want blue or redcoats.  But when is "further down the line"?

I'm one of them.

In my mind Bluecoats are regular army, Redcoats are elite Imperial Guard army.

And Greencoats are something like special operations... and this because I prefer to include them in some category in order to integrate them in the whole Pirates Theme, instead of tossing them away and pretending like they didn't happen at all.

But all in all, I'm not really interested in Greencoats.

Edited by Brickander Brickumnus

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2 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

Most Pirate fans probably do want blue or redcoats.  But when is "further down the line"?

Red Coats were released in 2009/10 and Blue Coats were released in 2015, so we're currently 12 years further down the line.

If they just keep to the normal pirate waves every 5-6 years that could be never (or this year) since that is mostly a "best of pirates" with more or less variants of the same sets every time. However I hope for something targeted to adults this time around like the B-Bay :pir-huzzah2:
 

57 minutes ago, Brickander Brickumnus said:

My only thought and hope is that they are planning to release a new wave of Pirates, when the new Pirates of the Caribbean movies come out.

I know beggars can't be choosers and since we got B-Bay we should be happy with that the next 10 years :parrot: However I think something is different this time and that we will get a new big AFOL set this or next year, maybe that is me being blindly optimistic for once :pir-grin: Lego are really giving the 18+ a push now and with the sale numbers that B-Bay has the market in clearly there, in addition to the 90 year set election that got 77 000 votes I believe we are going to see more takes on classic themes aimed at adult in the near future:pir-huzzah2:

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Hopefully Lego will take hints from the fact that there were two imperial fort submissions and will make some, while I would prefer recoats and bluecoats, 18th century spanish officers would be a nice addition in their yellow coats :pir-wink:

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32 minutes ago, Jack Sassy said:

Hopefully Lego will take hints from the fact that there were two imperial fort submissions and will make some

They should be getting plenty of direct feedback from this

 

1 hour ago, Roebuck said:

However I hope for something targeted to adults this time around like the B-Bay

Unlikely there will be anything at that price point as part of the standard wave.  The only hope is an exclusive like the 2010 Imperial Flagship... but there wasn't an exclusive in 2015... so don't get yer hopes up.

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Isn't there some kind of initiative to use Bricklink to release Ideas submissions that didn't make the cut? We could see some Pirates sets come out of that.

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6 minutes ago, TalonCard said:

Isn't there some kind of initiative to use Bricklink to release Ideas submissions that didn't make the cut? We could see some Pirates sets come out of that.

You're talking about this?

Realizing more LEGO Ideas designs together with the BrickLink Designer Program

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That's the one! I ordered the Treasure Map from the last Bricklink designer program; the box and instructions were very nicely done.

Edited by TalonCard

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I guess Lego doesn't think they'll be profitable.

To be fair, they have a point.  I mean, if you ignore the incredible sales of BSB and the 3 in 1 pirate ship over the last year, the only data they have to go on for the last decade is the really weak line of pirate stuff they released back in 2015, the best which was a recolor of an already existing set.  And what savvy business person would choose to go forward on a line that needs decent sets in order to generate interest and do well?

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13 hours ago, Cousarmy0001 said:

I guess Lego doesn't think they'll be profitable.

To be fair, they have a point.  I mean, if you ignore the incredible sales of BSB and the 3 in 1 pirate ship over the last year, the only data they have to go on for the last decade is the really weak line of pirate stuff they released back in 2015, the best which was a recolor of an already existing set.  And what savvy business person would choose to go forward on a line that needs decent sets in order to generate interest and do well?

I think it is more that they have the POBB set on shelves now (with the alternate design being a complete ship) and if they want to follow it up with another ship, then they will do it themselves. Like what they did with Ghostbusters ECTO-1 and the subsequent Firehouse.

 

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15 hours ago, Cousarmy0001 said:

I guess Lego doesn't think they'll be profitable.

Or maybe it has something to do with these Chinese companies who produce counterfeit versions of LEGO sets.

One stole the design for the Caribbean Clipper remake and put it into production themselves - and didn't give the builder credit, let alone royalties.

While AFOLs wouldn't purchase this, parents buying for their children may not give the manufacturer a second though.  So this is an example how a counterfeit brand can interfere with the market.

 

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15 hours ago, Cousarmy0001 said:

I guess Lego doesn't think they'll be profitable.

To be fair, they have a point.  I mean, if you ignore the incredible sales of BSB and the 3 in 1 pirate ship over the last year, the only data they have to go on for the last decade is the really weak line of pirate stuff they released back in 2015, the best which was a recolor of an already existing set.  And what savvy business person would choose to go forward on a line that needs decent sets in order to generate interest and do well?

I'm checking the list with all the sets LEGO has released, in the original Pirates Theme and in the Pirates of the Caribbean subtheme.

Pirates Line Sets

Pirates of the Caribbean Line Sets


Looking things from the perspective of an adult (beauty, display, economics, parts, building process) and the perspective of a child (beauty, playability, building process, storytelling/story-creating), these are MY observations:

In the Pirates of the Caribbean the only good sets for me are the Black Pearl and the Queen Anne's Revenge, both are ships.
Some people (maybe a lot?) regard the Silent Mary as a good set too (personally I dislike it, it my eyes it looks like an abomination).
The rest it seems to me are mediocre to shitty, with dark colors that make them gloomy and unattractive. I would never have bought these sets, nor for me, nor for my kids.

In the original Pirates Theme, lots of good sets early on, with things starting to go down the drain from 1994 and onwards (with some noticeably good exceptions, most of them being ships).

Releasing not good sets, expecting to have profit out of them and then blaming the whole theme as "having lost it's appeal with the consumers" is absurd.

Some other things that I regard as bad practice:
1) Not releasing in the same time one good set for Pirates and one good set for Imperials, like LEGO did when it first started the Pirates theme (e.g. the Black Seas Barracuda and the Caribbean Clipper). Pirates is an agonist-antagonist theme. Pirates battling Imperials and vice versa.
Nowadays it's a lot about the story and the narrative. Releasing only Pirates set/sets for example, removes a lot from this.
2) Not releasing sets that contain only Pirates crew/Imperials soldiers. For example, I want to add some more crew to my Pirates of the Barracuda Bay. I want to buy them new, not used from Bricklink (I'm of these guys that in a lot of things prefers new stuff instead of used and certainly dislike mixing new with used.)
3) Not releasing a set that contains only cannons. Again, I want to add some more cannons to my Pirates of the Barracuda Bay. I want to buy them new, not used from Bricklink.

Another thing to take into consideration:
I'm may be wrong, but I have the impression that most of the MOC ships (and bases) that fans are making are from the Imperial side. So it seems the gap LEGO is leaving in the Imperials side is" somewhat filled" by fans.

I believe a lot of the above things I address, is the LEGO mentality of seeing some things disjointed and in fragmentation.
A mentality that was clearly displayed with what it did with the splitting of votes in the Castle and Space Themes in the Fan Vote of the 90th Anniversary of The LEGO Group.

2 hours ago, MAB said:

I think it is more that they have the POBB set on shelves now (with the alternate design being a complete ship) and if they want to follow it up with another ship, then they will do it themselves. Like what they did with Ghostbusters ECTO-1 and the subsequent Firehouse.

This is probably true. Especially if they are planning to release some sets when the new Pirates of the Caribbean movie comes out.

Edited by Brickander Brickumnus

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16 hours ago, Cousarmy0001 said:

I guess Lego doesn't think they'll be profitable.

Counterfeits aside (which no doubt done help), I think there's lots of other reasons Lego might have besides doubting the profitability of a potential set. It might just not fit into a wider business strategy - e.g. the designers that they would want to work on this are working on other things already and won't have availability any time soon.  We simply don't know the reason.

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3 minutes ago, Weil said:

I think there's lots of other reasons Lego might have besides doubting the profitability of a potential set. It might just not fit into a wider business strategy -

The actual business strategy is to release a new wave of Pirate sets every 5-7 years (with 6 years being the average).

So 2009... 2015... 2021...

Therefore, releasing Pirate themed LEGO Idea sets at present may interfere with that strategy.

7 minutes ago, Weil said:

We simply don't know the reason.

Correct. And we won't know with 100% certainty until there is an official announcement.

37 minutes ago, Brickander Brickumnus said:

A mentality that was clearly displayed with what it did with the splitting of votes in the Castle and Space Themes in the Fan Vote of the 90th Anniversary of The LEGO Group.

That certainly did obscure the polling with the uneven weighting of the options.

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