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Taohe Netrus

How to easly ease the conflict around LEGO's 90 anniversary between Bionicle and System?

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As we all know, vote caused a conflict between Bionicle fans and System fans. The main reason is fact that all of Top 4 series (exept Bionicle) have already some great sets. LEGO Pirates fans have 21322 Pirates of Barracuda Bay set, LEGO Space fans have 70816 Benny's Spaceship and 21109 Exo-Suit. Fans of Castle series have 21325 Medieval Blacksmith and I'm sure, we'll see some kind of Castle-themed series soon, even without voting.

What about LEGO Bionicle fans? After cutting short its story in 2010, and waiting 5 years for proper continuation, LEGO created a reboot that failed in many ways. But gave us great parts to creating MOCs. Unfortunatelly, Bionicle G2 ended in 2017 and since that, it's really hard to get any pieces for normal price. Remnants of LEGO Star Wars buildable figures are expensive cause of license and Bricklink is the only place where we can get CCBS parts now. Bionicle fans are affraid that LEGO will soon destroy moulds from G2, making impossible for us to get bricks like 24189, 24190, 24191 or 20474 that were great for building MOCs.  

The conflict will increase until LEGO start caring about Bionicle fans. If LEGO doesn't want to give us new sets, it should at least release some jars with CCBS parts in three size variants: Matoran, Toa and Titan, which will contain skeleton parts, shells (not only in standard colors, but sand-green, purple etc. too), weapons, technic joints, technic panels and recolored masks that will allow us to reforge our anger into creativity. Bionicle has great potential to create action figures, giant fantasy creatures and vehicles with lot of technic functions. But it's hard to build MOCs without parts. If there's a LEGO theme like LEGO Classic, we can have LEGO CCBS too. I know, part of system fans doesn't care, but what about you, Bionicle fans? Do you think, there's a chance for CCBS jars or we'll continue to buying sets like Corvette ZR1 just to have parts to create another Rahi? :p

Edited by Taohe Netrus

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8 minutes ago, Taohe Netrus said:

What about LEGO Bionicle fans? After cutting short its story in 2010, and waiting 5 years for proper continuation, LEGO created a reboot that failed in many ways. But gave us great parts to creating MOCs. Unfortunatelly, Bionicle G2 ended in 2017 and since that, it's really hard to get any pieces for normal price. Remnants of LEGO Star Wars buildable figures are expensive cause of license and Bricklink is the only place where we can get CCBS parts now. Bionicle fans are affraid that LEGO will soon destroy moulds from G2, making impossible for us to get bricks like 24189, 24190, 24191 or 20474 that were great for building MOCs.  

Some of the parts from the more sought after CCBS sets are expensive, but most of them are still normally priced (a lot of them underpriced, even). So I don't think that's really an issue.

And if if Bricklink is too expensive for you, you can always just got to eBay and buy random parts in bulks for pretty good deals. 

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19 minutes ago, Taohe Netrus said:

The main reason is fact that all of Top 4 series (exept Bionicle) have already some great sets. LEGO Pirates fans have 21322 Pirates of Barracuda Bay set, LEGO Space fans have 70816 Benny's Spaceship and 21109 Exo-Suit.

I'm going to have to stop you right here. The above is a complete falsehood.

Benny's Space ship and the Exo-Suit are from 2014. That's 2 sets 7 years ago.

Bionicle had two years of an ENTIRE THEME in 2015 and 2016. That's 42 sets 5 years ago.

Which is more due for a set?

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For me, prices aren't so problematic, but there are people that do not buying sets/bricks in the Internet. That's why I think, it should be made possible to buy CCBS in physical shops in the form of jars/boxes filled with mixed parts like it's done with LEGO Classic. Especially, when, after LEGO destroying moulds, CCBS parts will be more expensive and harder to find each year. Situation with 2015-16 parts is much worse than G1 part's, because they were aviable often on only one set, maximally in 6. Many people voting for Bionicle is doing it just to ensure that LEGO will bring back some series themed around buildable figures. Chima ended, HF ended, Bionicle ended, Super Heroes weren't too good, SW ended... since last wave of SW action figures, there's no single set allowing Bio fans to get parts from a physical toy shop.

And yes, danth, you're right, but system parts are aviable all the time in almost every single set exept LEGO Duplo or Technic. CCBS not, so Bio fans are fighting to remind LEGO that they're still existing. That's why LEGO has a great opportunity to calm both sides of conflict. One will get Space set, second will be able to buy necessary parts. Anniversary set isn't as much important for Bionicle fans as what it will represent. 

Edited by Taohe Netrus

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I still do not understand what it is that other Bionicle fans want... I just want technic robots, like the first few waves and some of the later waves.

But it seems a lot of other Bionicle fans here want CCBS... so does that mean you were happy with Chima/SW/HF/...? Because I had a feeling those themes were not popular.

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Lira_Bricks

LEGO have destroyed moulds necessary to produce G1 parts, and making new ones is expensive for them so if they do anything, it will be return of CCBS with at best few new parts. I'd like to see old parts too, but if it's impossible, it will be good to get anything. 
Btw. year or two more and Bionicle G2 could really be great, building system really evolved after HF. And started to include more and more technic parts. 

Edited by Taohe Netrus

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23 minutes ago, danth said:

I'm going to have to stop you right here. The above is a complete falsehood.

Benny's Space ship and the Exo-Suit are from 2014. That's 2 sets 7 years ago.

Bionicle had two years of an ENTIRE THEME in 2015 and 2016. That's 42 sets 5 years ago.

Which is more due for a set?

Well said, I agree entirely. 

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48 minutes ago, Taohe Netrus said:

The conflict will increase until LEGO start caring about Bionicle fans.

They tried in 2015-16, but it flopped. Whats to say that it will be any different this time around? 

This may be a controversial opinion, but I think Bionicle should stay dead. No mater what TLG does, its almost impossible recapture the magic of the original because someone will always be unhappy with the final result. It's better to remember it for the awesome line of what it used to be rather then to try and resurrect its half rotted/rusted out corpse into a zombie theme/set thats more likely to be doomed to fail and will sour peoples impression of the brand. 

Ending on a more positive note, I don't see why the Bionicle Community isn't taking advantage of Ideas more. Like if you want to show Lego that you are a dedicated fan base who wants some more bionicle sets, start trying to get more projects to 10k! From a quick search there are quite a couple already there that look great but only have a couple 1000 supporters.

 

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There's a big problem with LEGO Ideas: you cannot use parts that aren't produced anymore. Bio fans prefer technic builds over system. And CCBS hasn't evolved enough to create a project that will be easly able to get 10k. But look at Sokoda's diorama- it collected 10k fastest in whole LEGO Ideas history. Just wasn't choosen by LEGO. 

And G1 ended in almost perfect moment for new fans to came, by introducing us to new planet and new characters. If G2 used that instead of rebooting beloved series by replacing and making everything (exept sets, they were great) worse, G2 could be almost as successful as Ninjago. It's sad that because of terrible marketing and poorly written storyline, it ended after two years.

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21 minutes ago, Taohe Netrus said:

There's a big problem with LEGO Ideas: you cannot use parts that aren't produced anymore.

Admittedly I don't really spend much time on the Ideas platform and I'm not 100% familiar with its intricacies, but is this right? The Ship in a Bottle set used 6002 in trans-clear (and I just checked, the same part was on the Ideas submission) - which had last been used in that colour outside of Dacta sets in 1992's Poolside Paradise and hadn't been used in any colour since 2010's Space Police Central (nor, indeed, had it been used in any regular sets at all between those two, according to Bricklink).

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3 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

Admittedly I don't really spend much time on the Ideas platform and I'm not 100% familiar with its intricacies, but is this right?

Nope. I don't think your allowed to create new molds, but there has never been a rule against using older parts. Funny enough a good deal of successful ideas projects actually use depreciated parts unknowingly

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1 minute ago, MuscoviteSandwich said:

Funny enough a good deal of successful ideas projects actually use depreciated parts unknowingly

That doesn't surprise me! Especially since Lego themselves don't always seem to know that a part's out of commission until they want to use it in another set (see: the goat)

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And Bionicle fans have all the stuff, sets and story, that were sold in the past. Bionicle is not the only theme that is now gone, to bring everything back is impossible.

Bionicle suffered what many reboots do. Fans of the old stuff wanting everything to be the same as the original release but also for it to be different enough to be interesting. Then complain it is not as good, and put off others from buying into it. Then complain when it fails and the producers choose not to make more. Whether it is a LEGO theme, TV series, movie franchise, etc.

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2 hours ago, MAB said:

Fans of the old stuff wanting everything to be the same as the original release but also for it to be different enough to be interesting. Then complain it is not as good, and put off others from buying into it. Then complain when it fails and the producers choose not to make more.

 

14 hours ago, Lira_Bricks said:

I just want technic robots, like the first few waves and some of the later waves.

Have you read that one, @MAB?

https://brickset.com/sets/theme-Bionicle/year-2016 Not a single set that has any technic in it.

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13 hours ago, MuscoviteSandwich said:

Nope. I don't think your allowed to create new molds, but there has never been a rule against using older parts. Funny enough a good deal of successful ideas projects actually use depreciated parts unknowingly

Then I wonder if I can include these minifigure parts in a LEGO Ideas project, which haven’t been used in forever?

Extended Arm, Left - https://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.cgi?f=parts/87773.dat

Extended Arm, Right - https://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.cgi?f=parts/87774.dat

Hips & Extended Legs Assembly - https://www.ldraw.org/cgi-bin/ptdetail.cgi?f=parts/87857.dat


FYI, these parts were only used in 2010’s Toy Story theme.

Edited by MatthewRC

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Everyone here is assuming that CCBS isn’t dead yet, but in all honesty, all those molds are probably gone too. The last time the most basic and essential CCBS parts were used was in 2018 with the last wave of Star Wars buildable figures(https://brickset.com/sets/containing-part-4593555), and even some of the other commonly used parts, such as the beast feel, have also been phased out in favor of brick built solutions.(look at ninjago dragons from 2019 and compare them to the ones from 2020-2021) The only piece left is the rounded shoulder armor, mostly because it’s a good surface to print on, and that’s it. If bionicle gets the set, it will be system or technic. There is no other way it could be done by now.

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1 hour ago, 1974 said:

Are you blind?

 

47 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

There is plenty of technic originating parts in those sets.

Upon closer inspection they indeed have some technic in them, my apologies.

Still not enough in my opinion, but that is besides the point ^^"

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14 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

Admittedly I don't really spend much time on the Ideas platform and I'm not 100% familiar with its intricacies, but is this right? The Ship in a Bottle set used 6002 in trans-clear (and I just checked, the same part was on the Ideas submission) - which had last been used in that colour outside of Dacta sets in 1992's Poolside Paradise and hadn't been used in any colour since 2010's Space Police Central (nor, indeed, had it been used in any regular sets at all between those two, according to Bricklink).

From what I have seen, LEGO molds usually get destroyed if they aren't used for more than a few years (in a lot of cases, they are just one and done). But there are a few exceptions, that for some reason are kept around without being destroyed. They tend to get rid of the more specialized parts rather fast (despite the potential of re-using them later on), and only keep the generic piece molds. 

By that assumption, I assume they still have some of the generic CCBS molds around (like the bones and shells) but not the more specialized ones such as masks.

17 hours ago, Lira_Bricks said:

Because I had a feeling those themes were not popular.

They were just as popular (Hero Factory, at the very least, certainly was). Yes, Bionicle started out as a Technic subtheme, but that quickly changed as the line became it's own thing, becoming more and more independent from Technic.

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The problem here, I hate to say, is TLG are under no obligation to redo/restart/try again/continue *any* prior theme regardless of how many people want it. That goes for Space, castle, and any other currently dead theme. 

People are taking this voting contest as a *right* to have their favourite theme restarted/reimagined. 

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. However, yes, it does raise issues of individual tastes and differing preferences, as you rightly say, causing conflict. 

But a lot of that conflict, dare I say it, is a vocal number of bionicle fans claiming they had nothing since 2010-dismissing g2 as non existant while claiming space should be happy because they had a single large ship that happened to be perfect, a minifig pack in December 2018 and should be thankful and so don't deserve to have anything else ahead of bionicle. 

That castle have the medieval blacksmith. 

Bionicle fans are putting heavy weight on the couple of sets space/pirates/castle got while dismissing an entire wave that Bionicle got-regardless if it was rubbish or not, it was *still* actual bionicle. 

That simultaneous counter-intuitive dismissiveness alongside the exaggerating of literally a couple sets, while simultaneously dismissing the unfairness of Castle being split up in to subthemes entirely splitting up the votes of individual people while pitting it against a theme that does have a large niche following of people that many of which only care about bionicle and no other type of lego claiming it unfair that the unfairness was corrected... 

Resolve the dismissiveness and exaggerating and that'll ease it. As long as those 2 things exist? 

Nothing will be eased. 

Edited by Fuppylodders

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From what I noticed, many Bionicle fans actually doesn't even care in LEGO will create Bionicle-themed anniversary set. I would rather say, they're almost sure that Bio won't be choosen even if it would, miraculously, absolutely dominated other three. LEGO will choose system set no mater how voting will end up. 
The fight is about something else. About access to parts. How many technic series we have at the moment? LEGO Technic and LEGO Mindstorms (the second one includes actually only one cheap set with even cool parts). LEGO always had two main building categories (three if you'll separate Duplo from System). There was system and technic. The second one exists in form of real life vehicles but has potential to be used many more ways. Just look at 2001 Rahi. Whole conflict is a result of fact that Bionicle fans have to non-stop proving that they're around to getting sets, when system is always around. Maybe not in form of Space, Pirates or Castle but you can build a spaceship using parts from LEGO City plane etc., when to build your own Toa, you need one of sets that are not produced since mentioned last wave of Star Wars figures. 

It's not possible to meet everyone's expecations. Many Bio fans hates CCBS what could kill Bionicl G3 if it will ever happen. That's why in my opinion, a patent with mixes of bricks in jars/boxes could be a perfect solution to satisfy at least part of people. Conflict won't end up but more conciliatory people will be less desperate if fight will be about just a LEGO theme, not about existence of whole building system.

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On 2/5/2021 at 11:13 AM, MuscoviteSandwich said:

Ending on a more positive note, I don't see why the Bionicle Community isn't taking advantage of Ideas more. Like if you want to show Lego that you are a dedicated fan base who wants some more bionicle sets, start trying to get more projects to 10k! From a quick search there are quite a couple already there that look great but only have a couple 1000 supporters.

Hi Eurobricks-man I've been inactive a long time :def_shrug:

Anyways, I definitely am conflicted about this vote. I am a fan of Bionicle-I collect it's sets and build constraction Mocs and I love the story but I agree that it feels wrong to celebrate Lego's 90th with a theme that although influential really needs its own separate celebration, I also collect vintage Lego and own plenty of classic space and castle and therefore sympathize with both sides. I emphasise what @MuscoviteSandwich said, Lego Ideas is the route Bionicle fans should go to get a set made-many have been put off by the dismal of Sokodas project but I believe second time round Lego will realise there is a market and even if they don't approve a project it still shows the Bionicle fandom is alive and kicking.

*cough *cough vote for my Ideas project pls

It's really a shame that adventurers and train didn't make it in-train especially as it's a theme that can always do with another train seeing as how one Loco can differ from the next.

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Should Lego have just one anniversary set? A single winner is not only divisive, it throws away sales. I voted for trains, if architecture had been there, that would have been my second choice. Now I don't care what the anniversary set will be, I certainly won't be buying it. Perhaps there might have been enough demand for five anniversary sets.

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Axelford, you have my vote since Eljay mentioned your creation during his podcast ;)

Honestly, if any system series really deserve to get an Anniversary set, it should be Adventures. We had Space Police 3 not very long ago- in 2009, Pirates of Caribbean in 2011, Castle themed series around 2009 too. All those sets were aviable about 10 years ago. Some callbacks to them were present in LEGO Movie series too. But there wasn't so many series about exploring ancient temples connected to the culture of Egypt, India etc. Maybe you had sometching of chinese architecture in Ningago. Last time we've seen Johny Thunder or Lord Sinister, it was in 2003. 
In times of original Indiana Jones trilogy, exploring and artifact-hunting were much more present in LEGO stories, nowdays, everything looks this way: one motive (ninja, animals, cyber-knights etc) is choosen by LEGO and gets weird wehicles, TV series, motive of collecting some kind of weapons or crystals and lasts three years, when LEGO decides to continue or finish those series. It would be great to see series out of those scheme.

I'd be happy to see Bionicle-themed anniversary set, but i would sacrifice this chance only to get an access to CCBS parts. And Johny Thunder really deserves to come back :) 

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