[SR-Class 4] Ketch Treasure of Poseiden

[Count Vroskri]

The first big ship built by Greybeard, a Ketch, was given a strong name, Treasure of Poseidon, to help her on her voyages.

 

A swift, strong raider-and-trader, the Treasure of Poseidon was built wide and sturdy to allow her to stand her own against ships much bigger than herself. She is armed with 12 12-pounders, viz, 10 on the gundeck, and 2 as stern chasers.

 

Her sails were large to provide manoeuvrability and speed. The crew works unceasingly to make this ship as efficient as possible.

The blunt, cat built bow is designed to provide minimal drag and has a small figurehead. 

Spoiler

I actually finished this back in November, but never posted this. I would like some help if possible with the licencing process, as I don't really know what to do. C&C welcome as usual! I edited the title since this is actually a ketch, not a schooner.

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Count Vroskri

[evancelt]

The hull looks well-armored!

I don't know much about sailing ships - can you tell me more about the orientation of the sails? How do the sails parallel to the hull help the ship move forward?

[Count Vroskri]

On 22/01/2021 at 4:05 PM, evancelt said:

The hull looks well-armored!

I don't know much about sailing ships - can you tell me more about the orientation of the sails? How do the sails parallel to the hull help the ship move forward?

Thanks @evancelt

I was wrong. Please see Bregir's below post. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Count Vroskri

[Wellesley]

Looks great! A cool capstan design.

[NOD]

A well built ship with sails and rigging. The bow with the figurehead is well done.

[CapOnBOBS]

I've started working on a digital ship and even with unlimited bricks with no searching it is kicking my butt. I am continually blown away by the curves people can build and the details on the rigging. Well done good Sir. 

[Count Vroskri]

14 hours ago, Wellesley said:

Looks great! A cool capstan design.

Thanks @Wellesley! The capstan is based on one by @Sebeus I, on his version of La Comete.

12 hours ago, NOD said:

A well built ship with sails and rigging. The bow with the figurehead is well done.

 

Thanks @NOD! I especially enjoyed integrating all the details, like the figurehead. 

 

12 hours ago, CapOnBOBS said:

I've started working on a digital ship and even with unlimited bricks with no searching it is kicking my butt. I am continually blown away by the curves people can build and the details on the rigging. Well done good Sir. 

First off, @CapOnBOBS, your digital ships are really nice and have a great style with lots of clever techniques. And secondly, thanks very much for your compliments. 

[Fraunces]

Very nice! Very good job on the rigging and sails. I know how hard it is.

[Count Vroskri]

On 24/01/2021 at 6:52 PM, Fraunces said:

Very nice! Very good job on the rigging and sails. I know how hard it is.

Thanks @Fraunces! 

[Bregir]

Very nice schooner, Vroski - I am quite impressed - for your first larger ship to go with custom rigging and relatively advanced one at that.

A few comments to consider. (Please note that these are nitpicks - it is a very good build!)

• Irish pennants
  You have quite a few "Irish pennants", that could be resolved by a trim with a scissor. "Irish pennants" is naval slang for various untrimmed rope ends, frayed ropes, etc. that hangs about unorganised. Trimming those would help the overall look.
• Sails
  What material did you use for your sails? You might want to find something that is a bit stiffer to avoid it crumbling.
  Overall, your sails are quite small, particularly the schooner sails (fore and aft), which would be the main source of propulsive power for a schooner. In reality, these would be as large as they possibly could.
• Masts/Topmasts
  It's not entirely clear how you have built this, and I think you might completely or partially have done this already, but any vessel larger than boat (more or less) would have a mast and a topmast. These will have an overlap. You can see it in many mocs, but I just took two pictures of my own, where it is fairly obvious.
  • 
  • 
• Armament
  This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, and something we see quite often: The size of armament.
  Assuming we talk about long guns (not carronades), only ships of the line, or a few late heavy frigates will carry 24 pounders or larger. Frigates typically carried 6/9 to 18 pounders (larger at the end of the period). Sloops, schooners, etc. would typically carry 4 or 6 pounders. If you were to arm her with short range carronades, you could get as large as 24 pounders. The British did this with some of their smaller ships, to give them an impressive punch at short distance.
• Nerdy ship classification talk
  Achtjually!... A schooner's mainmast will be the second mast, which should generally be larger (or at least the same size) as the foremast. So technically, you have actually built a ketch. (The difference between a ketch and a schooner is which mast is the largest)
  The sail-plan article on Wikipedia is one of my favourite, as you can imagine...

Overall a very nice build, Vroski, and I like how you have given it a good story too. Your pictures are a bit blurry, and might benefit from better lighting conditions, but I think this is really nice. A picture of the deck too, might be nice, as well as one of the stern. Those are a bit hard to make out as of now.

 

[Count Vroskri]

6 hours ago, Bregir said:

Very nice schooner, Vroski - I am quite impressed - for your first larger ship to go with custom rigging and relatively advanced one at that.

A few comments to consider. (Please note that these are nitpicks - it is a very good build!) 

 

Thanks for your kind words.

6 hours ago, Bregir said:

 

• Irish pennants
  You have quite a few "Irish pennants", that could be resolved by a trim with a scissor. "Irish pennants" is naval slang for various untrimmed rope ends, frayed ropes, etc. that hangs about unorganised. Trimming those would help the overall look.
• Sails
  What material did you use for your sails? You might want to find something that is a bit stiffer to avoid it crumbling.
  Overall, your sails are quite small, particularly the schooner sails (fore and aft), which would be the main source of propulsive power for a schooner. In reality, these would be as large as they possibly could.
• Masts/Topmasts
  It's not entirely clear how you have built this, and I think you might completely or partially have done this already, but any vessel larger than boat (more or less) would have a mast and a topmast. These will have an overlap. You can see it in many mocs, but I just took two pictures of my own, where it is fairly obvious.
  • 
  • 
• Armament
  This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, and something we see quite often: The size of armament.
  Assuming we talk about long guns (not carronades), only ships of the line, or a few late heavy frigates will carry 24 pounders or larger. Frigates typically carried 6/9 to 18 pounders (larger at the end of the period). Sloops, schooners, etc. would typically carry 4 or 6 pounders. If you were to arm her with short range carronades, you could get as large as 24 pounders. The British did this with some of their smaller ships, to give them an impressive punch at short distance.
• Nerdy ship classification talk
  Achtjually!... A schooner's mainmast will be the second mast, which should generally be larger (or at least the same size) as the foremast. So technically, you have actually built a ketch. (The difference between a ketch and a schooner is which mast is the largest)
  The sail-plan article on Wikipedia is one of my favourite, as you can imagine...

 

The pennants I can remove easily, I am currently looking for a better sail cloth for my frigate, so I can take it into account on that one. I agree the sails are small. I made this a while ago before my ship knowledge began to increase (I have bought several reference books) so I hope the next one will be better. On the masts /topmasts, the foremast has two topmasts, so three parts, and the second mast has one, so two parts. The reason I called them 24's which a schooner would very rarely have, is because this was supposed to be a 'more accurate' skulls eye schooner, so I used the official cannons, which some say are roughly the same. Leading to your next point, I am aware this is a ketch, I have frankly no idea why I call it a schooner, probably the Skulls Eye Schooner thing, as I mentioned earlier. 

Overall, thanks very much @Bregir I already have a pic of the deck and stern but may try to re-take them, as well as the main photos, after removing the said Irish pennants. 

 

[Bregir]

On 1/22/2021 at 5:05 PM, evancelt said:

I don't know much about sailing ships - can you tell me more about the orientation of the sails? How do the sails parallel to the hull help the ship move forward?

 

On 1/22/2021 at 6:26 PM, Count Vroskri said:

The sails running allow the centre line are called fore-and-aft. They are used for turning the ship and keeping on course. For going forward, they don't really do much as I'm aware, but provide manoeuvrability to stare a ship and make it more agile.

*TRIGGERED*

The science of sailboats is quite complex, and I won't claim complete understanding (it's similar to how a aeroplane wing works), but as anyone who has sailed a modern bermuda-rigged sloop will tell you, these fore-and-aft sails can give you very high forward force, and hence speed, even when (or particularly when) close-hauled (almost parallel to the hull).

I've tried to make a concept drawing that might help. When the wind moves over the sail, it will create a difference in pressure between the high-pressure windward side, and the low-pressure lee side. (Note that like an airplane wing, angle of attack also has some impact) There are only two ways that pressure can be released (bar any ripped sails or rigging). Either ship can be pushed sideways (what we know as leeway) or it can move forward. Since the vessel's hull and keel (particularly the latter on a modern pleasure craft) resists leeway, and since drag is significantly lower when moving forward, the vessel will surge forward, while leeway will be limited (although that depends on the hull design. Flat hulled tubs will not perform well...).

As you will also notice, moving forward actually increases wind-speed over the sails (when running close-hauled or a few points free), which further adds to this effect. That's is how a sailboat can outrun the wind-speed under the right conditions.

These effects also work on square-riggers or any other type of rig. A square-rigged vessel of the period (frigate, ship-of-the-line, brig, etc.) will typically outperform a fore-and-aft rig when running with the wind a few points free or more, while the fore-and-aft will outperform the square-rigger when sailing close to the wind. It will also be able to go significantly closer, making it able to outsail the square-rigger by simply going upwind. No vessels really do super well with the wind right astern, as sails will shield each other from the wind, and you only basically get a push, no (or limited) wing effects.

Hope this was enlightening, and perhaps a bit interesting too!

[Count Vroskri]

3 minutes ago, Bregir said:

 

Hope this was enlightening, and perhaps a bit interesting too!

Aye, I will correct the above post, it's good to be corrected, as now I will be able to give correct advice. 

[NOD]

@Bregir

Thanks, I learned a lot.

The following reply helped me a lot when building my ships:

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by NOD

[CapOnBOBS]

3 hours ago, Bregir said:

*TRIGGERED*

The science of sailboats is quite complex, and I won't claim complete understanding (it's similar to how a aeroplane wing works), but as anyone who has sailed a modern bermuda-rigged sloop will tell you, these fore-and-aft sails can give you very high forward force, and hence speed, even when (or particularly when) close-hauled (almost parallel to the hull).

@Bregir for the win with a free-body-diagram to illustrate the resultant force of a ship's forward motion... I love it!