LEGO 10294 Titanic Discussion

[Stefanisimo]

There finally appears to be some new info about this set. Looks like it will be 630$, and wow that's a lot more than I expected. A lot more. It might even be the biggest set, I am really curious to see the piece count. Though I am not sure how I feel about this, I was expecting it to be somewhere around 200-300$. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this would be the 3rd most expensive set ever, the first 2 being Star Wars sets. And to think I have been waiting for this set since I was 10 years old, crazy stuff. But now one question remains, how the hell am I supposed to afford this  

[Vilhelm22]

2 hours ago, Stefanisimo said:

There finally appears to be some new info about this set. Looks like it will be 630$, and wow that's a lot more than I expected. A lot more. It might even be the biggest set, I am really curious to see the piece count. Though I am not sure how I feel about this, I was expecting it to be somewhere around 200-300$. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this would be the 3rd most expensive set ever, the first 2 being Star Wars sets. And to think I have been waiting for this set since I was 10 years old, crazy stuff. But now one question remains, how the hell am I supposed to afford this  

Yeah I’m in a very similar position to you.  The Colosseum is I think US$550 and £450, so my guess would be £500.  Guess they wanted to outdo their Titanic competitor...  

I wonder how it will be in terms of length compared to say Tower Bridge (102cm).

$630 is a huge amount.

[Alpha Draconis]

Nice to see more people finding interest in this set. I'll take the new 630 USD rumour with a grain of salt but I'm real interested what TLG could do with such a budget. 

A question I had since Titanic rumour started floating around early this year - will TLG need to pay any royalties to the IP holder? Sorry if it's a weird question, I come from Star wars forum (as you've probably guessed ) 

I'm wondering this because I want to get a better idea of how much plastic (not pieces) we'll get in that set, since royalties may affect that. 

After a quick google search it seems that the White star line got merged with Cunard, which then got merged with Carnival, where we are today, but I don't think that matters that much for my question. Another interesting thing I didn't know: Titanic wreck site became a UNESCO heritage site in 2012.

There was an IP lawsuit in 2013 (link) but that one seems to mostly touch piracy of a Titanic exhibition. There is a company that owns right to dive and retrieve personal artefacts from the wreckage it seems. 

From my quick search, the wreck is under US-UK agreement (link 1, link 2) which restricts dives and retrieval of artefacts from the wreckage.

Does someone else have more specific information on this or is better at googling than me? 

[NathanR]

4 hours ago, Alpha Draconis said:

Does someone else have more specific information on this or is better at googling than me? 

From what I remember, the legal rights surrounding Titanic are a bit of a nightmare. The guy who discovered the wreck deliberately chose not to bring up any artefacts or material from the wreck, out of respect for it being the grave of over 1500 people. However, he has since regretted this, as raising anything would have given him salvage rights and control over the wreck, allowing him to keep it undisturbed. Since it's in international waters, and unclaimed as salvage, it's practically fair game for anyone who can reach it. There's a lengthy wikipedia article on it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wreck_of_the_Titanic#Ownership

I must say I'm surprised by the rumoured price of the set, and more than a little sceptical. I mean, I've seen another brand's take on Titanic so I can understand how a one metre long Titanic would weigh in at around 3000 pieces. A bigger model just doesn't seem practical from the ;point of view of home display. But at $630 we're looking at around 5000, maybe 6000 pieces. Where does the rest go? I mean, they can't possibly build an interior to the ship at that scale. I'll be watching with interest, but this set may well be just too big for me to own.

 

[Vilhelm22]

6 hours ago, Alpha Draconis said:

A question I had since Titanic rumour started floating around early this year - will TLG need to pay any royalties to the IP holder? Sorry if it's a weird question, I come from Star wars forum (as you've probably guessed ) 

I'm wondering this because I want to get a better idea of how much plastic (not pieces) we'll get in that set, since royalties may affect that. 

It’s a fair question of which I’m not sure the answer.  I think the best comparison you can make is to the Maersk ship and the various Creator Expert aircraft over the years, and also probably to buildings as well.  What I can confidently say is that royalties won’t be as high as on Star Wars, which I believe has the highest of any licensed LEGO theme...

2 hours ago, NathanR said:

From what I remember, the legal rights surrounding Titanic are a bit of a nightmare. The guy who discovered the wreck deliberately chose not to bring up any artefacts or material from the wreck, out of respect for it being the grave of over 1500 people. However, he has since regretted this, as raising anything would have given him salvage rights and control over the wreck, allowing him to keep it undisturbed. Since it's in international waters, and unclaimed as salvage, it's practically fair game for anyone who can reach it. There's a lengthy wikipedia article on it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wreck_of_the_Titanic#Ownership

A bigger model just doesn't seem practical from the ;point of view of home display. But at $630 we're looking at around 5000, maybe 6000 pieces. Where does the rest go? I mean, they can't possibly build an interior to the ship at that scale. I'll be watching with interest, but this set may well be just too big for me to own.

 

I’d say more around the 10000 pieces mark.  Colosseum is 80 dollars less and 9036 pieces....

Dunno where they go though.

On the other hand it could include expensive lights which there has been discussion about elsewhere (look up Lego Night Mode for more info) which could significantly up the price.

[Stuartn]

It could depend on the size of the pieces too, if there are lots of small intricate details, and perhaps a large display stand, along with a full hull, rather than just a waterline model, you could achieve  a high part count

[Blondie-Wan]

2 hours ago, Vilhelm22 said:

It’s a fair question of which I’m not sure the answer.  I think the best comparison you can make is to the Maersk ship and the various Creator Expert aircraft over the years, and also probably to buildings as well.  What I can confidently say is that royalties won’t be as high as on Star Wars, which I believe has the highest of any licensed LEGO theme...

Oh? Do we know what the Star Wars royalty rate is?

[Terrasher]

Despite the Titanic being more expensive than the Colosseum, I don't think it will have a larger piece count necessarily. The Colosseum has a lot of tiny pieces whereas the Titanic has a more streamlined shape that can be recreated using larger pieces. What I'm wondering is: If an interior is included, how detailed will it be? 630$ is a heck of a lot of money, and TLG can only make it so big until it is just unnecessarily large. Would one meter be too small for a 630$ Titanic with no interior? Or would it be justified by adding a lot of inner details?

I'm kind of relieved it's not a landmark set, though, since I'm a sucker for those and the end of the year is already expensive enough with the rumored AT-AT. I am happy that we are finally getting another Creator Expert ship after so long, though. It will make for a much needed break from the abundance of cars within this theme and many others.

Do we have a rumored release date?

[allanp]

This is an intriguing rumour. Will it have a complete hull or just to the water line? Complete hull would be better so you can have the rudder and propellers and all the shaping of the hull. Will it have a full interior, with every room and every floor (floors being separateable like the modulars), with the iconic staircases leading into each other, with furniture in every room, and fully detailed engine room? Even with 10000 pieces that's a huuuuuge stretch. My guess is it will be a highly detailed exterior only, with possibly a small selection of interiors (like they did with the millennium falcon).

[Vilhelm22]

5 hours ago, Terrasher said:

Do we have a rumored release date?

No I don’t think so.  However according to different rumours before the 630 dollar leak, it was either August or September.  Don’t count on that though.

[NathanR]

10 hours ago, Vilhelm22 said:

I’d say more around the 10000 pieces mark.  Colosseum is 80 dollars less and 9036 pieces....

Yeah, but price isn't really a good indication of piece count. UCS Star Destroyer is $700 and only 4700 pieces. The new "Bird of Paradise" Botanic set is £90, 1173 pieces, but several hundred are 1x1 round plates for the soil. The price can be hugely driven up by a small number of very large/expensive parts.

10 hours ago, Vilhelm22 said:

On the other hand it could include expensive lights which there has been discussion about elsewhere (look up Lego Night Mode for more info) which could significantly up the price.

Is Lego Night Mode still a thing? I hadn't heard any more about it since the controversy over Lego partnering with a company that had apparently cloned someone else's lighting system? Titanic all lit up at night would be awesome, but I wonder if this would be the best model to showcase a new system. 

1 hour ago, allanp said:

Will it have a full interior, with every room and every floor (floors being separateable like the modulars), with the iconic staircases leading into each other, with furniture in every room, and fully detailed engine room?

The Lego nanofigures are about 5 plates tall, placing them at a scale of 1 stud is 1m. I've used them in models at a scale of 1 stud s 1.5m, but that's pushing things a bit. That's a range of scales from 1:125 to 1:180. As Titanic was 269m long, that would require a Lego model anywhere from 1.5 to 2.1 metres long, which is just not going to be practical. We might get some token gestures like a representation of the grand staircase, or part of the engines, but everything else will be too small to represent in bricks.

Scale might be guessed based on the parts needed to build the funnels. To keep in system, they have to be either 2x2, 3x3 or 4x4 round bricks (the 3x3 were new last year for the 75301 X-Wing). As the original funnels were 22 feet in diameter, or 6.7 metres, that puts the possible scales at about 1:418, 1:280, or 1:209, for a final Lego model size of either 0.65m, 0.96m or 1.28m.

[Stefanisimo]

13 hours ago, Vilhelm22 said:

On the other hand it could include expensive lights which there has been discussion about elsewhere (look up Lego Night Mode for more info) which could significantly up the price.

That would honestly be an amazing thing! I don't really expect they will do it, but we'll have to wait and see.

3 hours ago, NathanR said:

Titanic all lit up at night would be awesome, but I wonder if this would be the best model to showcase a new system.

I think so!

Though, I reckon a huge amount of pieces will go towards a display stand. Lego seems to be going in that direction with a lot of the 18+ sets. Just look at the recently revealed Darth Vaders' meditation chamber. The stand has more pieces than the build by the looks of it. There will also be a huge number of very small pieces to make the ship a lot detailed I presume. 

I also wonder what will they use for the cables that run from the bow and connect both masts. If they even include these?

[Alpha Draconis]

Just now, Vilhelm22 said:

What I can confidently say is that royalties won’t be as high as on Star Wars, which I believe has the highest of any licensed LEGO theme...

True, we can probably expect more plastic in accordance with the price

Just now, NathanR said:

Yeah, but price isn't really a good indication of piece count. UCS Star Destroyer is $700 and only 4700 pieces. The new "Bird of Paradise" Botanic set is £90, 1173 pieces, but several hundred are 1x1 round plates for the soil. The price can be hugely driven up by a small number of very large/expensive parts.

Is Lego Night Mode still a thing? I hadn't heard any more about it since the controversy over Lego partnering with a company that had apparently cloned someone else's lighting system? Titanic all lit up at night would be awesome, but I wonder if this would be the best model to showcase a new system. 

The Lego nanofigures are about 5 plates tall, placing them at a scale of 1 stud is 1m. I've used them in models at a scale of 1 stud s 1.5m, but that's pushing things a bit. That's a range of scales from 1:125 to 1:180. As Titanic was 269m long, that would require a Lego model anywhere from 1.5 to 2.1 metres long, which is just not going to be practical. We might get some token gestures like a representation of the grand staircase, or part of the engines, but everything else will be too small to represent in bricks.

Scale might be guessed based on the parts needed to build the funnels. To keep in system, they have to be either 2x2, 3x3 or 4x4 round bricks (the 3x3 were new last year for the 75301 X-Wing). As the original funnels were 22 feet in diameter, or 6.7 metres, that puts the possible scales at about 1:418, 1:280, or 1:209, for a final Lego model size of either 0.65m, 0.96m or 1.28m.

Nice and reasonable calculation based on the funnels - my guess would then be that the model is going to be 1.28m long, based on the price (if there are no light functions, that could jack the price up)

I've been thinking a lot of how the designers are going to address structural stability within the model (had the same issues as a kid, trying to build the biggest Titanic model I could with the bricks I had) and a thought came to mind - do you think that base-plates from art sets will be used in some way? They could add some integrity/stability to the model + they are perfect for making the deck of the model. Bricklink ID is 65803

[NathanR]

2 hours ago, Alpha Draconis said:

do you think that base-plates from art sets will be used in some way?

Not likely. Titanic was about 28m wide, which at 1:209 (with a 4x4 funnel) would be 13.5cm wide, or 16.8 studs. It would be just about possible, but awkward to disguise the technic holes on the sides of the bricks and blend them into the hull.

[mapimi]

12 hours ago, NathanR said:

Not likely. Titanic was about 28m wide, which at 1:209 (with a 4x4 funnel) would be 13.5cm wide, or 16.8 studs. It would be just about possible, but awkward to disguise the technic holes on the sides of the bricks and blend them into the hull.

Windows ? 

Just kidding :P

[Alpha Draconis]

On 6/3/2021 at 8:22 PM, NathanR said:

Not likely. Titanic was about 28m wide, which at 1:209 (with a 4x4 funnel) would be 13.5cm wide, or 16.8 studs. It would be just about possible, but awkward to disguise the technic holes on the sides of the bricks and blend them into the hull.

I see. But then again (I made no calculations and I'm mostly going of a hunch) wouldn't the model be kind of small if the funnels will really be 4x4 compared to the price? The more I think about it, the more I think that funnels are going to be bigger than 4x4 (although not significantly bigger), if the price will really be 630€. Unless, of course, there are light functions included. Then I think 630€ price tag fits better with the scale. 

Then again, maybe my hunch is wrong and the scale fits perfectly with the supposed price. 

[1974]

I think there's only way to make the hull and that is with bricks. If the hull is plate based there's going to be a LOT of tiles since there are only one large tile without studs (6x6) and there's not really any rivets visible so those 6x12 tiles with studs are no good here. Using tiles/plates will also need a ton of internal structure. And be fragile as heck

But making a brick hull will also take a ton of bricks ... hmm

I don't expect any interior as unless it's 3 meters long

[MartyMcFly]

This sounds like it is going to be a big release.  Can we expect it to be revealed at the Lego Con on June 26th?  Or will we have to wait for the next Black Friday showcase, like they did last year when the Colosseum was released?

[Vilhelm22]

@MartyMcFly We've had September releases before such as the London Bus in 2017.  The rumour is this will be released then....

[Grover]

On 6/2/2021 at 5:11 PM, Vilhelm22 said:

I’d say more around the 10000 pieces mark.  Colosseum is 80 dollars less and 9036 pieces....

Dunno where they go though.

500 piece ship, 4 piece clear aquarium style tank, 9496 1x1 trans light blue round plates you pour in on top of the finished model.

[CDM]

9 hours ago, Grover said:

500 piece ship, 4 piece clear aquarium style tank, 9496 1x1 trans light blue round plates you pour in on top of the finished model.

Man, that is dark.

[Grover]

9 hours ago, CDM said:

Man, that is dark.

Too soon?  C'mon, you had to expect some titanic jokes.  Some of the ones above were unintentional, like talking about the leaks...

[Stuartn]

1 hour ago, Grover said:

Too soon?  C'mon, you had to expect some titanic jokes.  Some of the ones above were unintentional, like talking about the leaks...

I can actually anticipate this set will be used in an actual fish tank by some consumers.

[allanp]

Well, they made the Colosseum as it is now instead of how it was in its prime!

[CDM]

10 hours ago, Grover said:

Too soon?  C'mon, you had to expect some titanic jokes.  Some of the ones above were unintentional, like talking about the leaks...

Nah, def not too soon and I'm not saying it wasn't a good one. Just that it was dark...as intended.

Edited June 11, 2021 by CDM