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Lego Ideas 90th Anniversary Fan Vote

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Why are people getting so annoyed by this? The second vote does not even have any effect...

The fact they added castle could mean they just want castle, but that just seems paranoid

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21 minutes ago, Lira_Bricks said:

Why are people getting so annoyed by this? The second vote does not even have any effect...

The fact they added castle could mean they just want castle, but that just seems paranoid

Well, teeeeeechnically.... Adding castle into the winner group adds castle to the option of it being made into a set, which adds a competitor to an already very competitive grouping. None of which will be chosen by the results of this second fan vote, but it does still add another competitor to those who were hoping pirates/space/bonkles (sorry, I just love that name for it :laugh:, first time I seen it was in this thread!) would be made.

Tbh, I'm not mad at all with it, it does correct their mistake a bit (how that even came to occur is a disgrace though, for such an obvious thing...) however I do hope they don't purely stick with 'classic space' even though it says it, if by some stroke of luck, that's what they make. Otherwise that's just carrying forward the mistake... 

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39 minutes ago, Fuppylodders said:

Tbh, I'm not mad at all with it, it does correct their mistake a bit (how that even came to occur is a disgrace though, for such an obvious thing...) however I do hope they don't purely stick with 'classic space' even though it says it, if by some stroke of luck, that's what they make. Otherwise that's just carrying forward the mistake... 

Yes, I agree. It's not completely fair in all regards to now include Castle but I think it's more fair than not doing so.

However, this being the case, regardless of what the poll says, I think "classic space" should (and will) now be interpreted as Space (generally).

Equally, I think Pirates will be interpreted as... uh... the theme Pirates (i.e. all the factions including pirates and imperials, which were split before).

If the set they end up making is Castle now though, I can see why some will cry foul play. 

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4 hours ago, Lyichir said:

I can't see how starting over (and by extension tossing out all the votes from the first round) would seem any fairer. 

Because the splitting the Castle theme in factions affected the first vote

Castle fans probably voted for 3 different castle subthemes in the poll. But if castle had been a single entry, they could have voted for castle and 2 other themes, including pirates and classic space

Actually the top 3 could have been castle, space and pirates. We don't know. They only way to know is starting all over again

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1 hour ago, Weil said:

However, this being the case, regardless of what the poll says, I think "classic space" should (and will) now be interpreted as Space (generally).

Equally, I think Pirates will be interpreted as... uh... the theme Pirates (i.e. all the factions including pirates and imperials, which were split before).

Exactly, or say classic castle instead of castle. We would be destined to get classic castle if castle was to win probably anyway, and it would be fairer to space fans.

Realistically I don't think classic space will be inhibited. If it were say, two space subthemes going up against castle it would be unfair, but I think now all space votes will stream into classic space anyway.

4 hours ago, MAB said:

And in some cases, they were sold in the same box ... Black Falcons, Crusaders/Lion Knights, Forestmen and plain Castle.

6103-1.png

6103-1.jpg

Yet now we are told they were different themes.

 

But space was split up and it was marketed in the same way too, yet it is still classed as separate themes.

6704-1.jpg

 

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15 hours ago, Fuppylodders said:

Why do they insist castle=nexo knights? It just isn't.

 

5 hours ago, EamonnMR said:

Nexo knights was the closest thing to the neon-era space we've gotten for a while.

I've got no idea what classic space looks like aside from grey ships with yellow windows, Nexo Knights has "Knights" in the name and guys with swords so I automatically assumed it was castle. then again, I don't understand the lore of system themes in general

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58 minutes ago, Kingriedak said:

 

I've got no idea what classic space looks like aside from grey ships with yellow windows, Nexo Knights has "Knights" in the name and guys with swords so I automatically assumed it was castle. then again, I don't understand the lore of system themes in general

You don't need to understand the lore. 

If you were able to Google how many sets nexo knights had in its time, then you can Google pictures and see for yourself how nexo knights tries to be castle in space.

Then, Google pictures of 80s/90s space sets.

Then Google Castle sets. 

Then genuinely tell me nexo knights is either of them. 

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29 minutes ago, Fuppylodders said:

You don't need to understand the lore. 

If you were able to Google how many sets nexo knights had in its time, then you can Google pictures and see for yourself how nexo knights tries to be castle in space.

Then, Google pictures of 80s/90s space sets.

Then Google Castle sets. 

Then genuinely tell me nexo knights is either of them. 

I didn't google anything, I searched up the Nexo Knights category on bricklink and saw how many sets it had, and like I said before, I don't follow system at all, but if nexo knights didn't appeal to the castle/space community as an actual theme, then you can understand why I'd completely take G2 off the table and say that Bionicle hasn't had proper sets since 2009

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Honestly, I'm not entirely sure why they didn't try ranked voting? At least for the final four.

Maybe it's because of Recent Bonkle Fandom Drama (The Helryx contest, which I've done a writeup of on r/hobbydrama because it was that bad), but I kinda really love ranked voting for things like this.

"First past the post" is basically just a "What's your favourite" vote, whereas ranking them all from 1 to 4 would give Lego a much more accurate picture of what's got the most demand for it. This is as much market research as it is a popularity contest, and while the outcome is not much of a surprise, "Big Shock, the three archetypal Lego themes and their biggest story theme got the most support and still have a strong market for them all", it's still valuable information for Lego. That information being the most accurate it can be would be helpful to have.

 

I'm also not of the mind toward including G2, just because I don't think Lego really gave it a chance. It was cancelled after its first wave, and its launch was so mismanaged and poorly budgeted that at feels less like G2 failed and more like it was shot in the leg before it could even start, and that's a shame because some of those sets were darn good, even if the story... wasn't.

 

As an aside, this is how I'd rank the current winner's circle:

1) Bionicle- Surprise, it's my favourite. Gimme a quasi-UCS Takanuva or something.

2) Castle- Has been dormant for the longest time of the others, and I'm big into medieval fantasy, even if there's not a Drow or a Tiefling in sight.

3) Space- Not really any strong feelings on this one, and it's had a lot of love lately, but apparently its big Lego Ideas shot didn't even reach review stage? I sympathise with Ideas disappointment (Even if the Sonic Mania set has my attention and probably my wallet), and I do like sci-fi. Especially pre "Human cops and evil aliens" Lego Sci-Fi. Screw the modern stuff tho.

4) Pirates- Come on guys it still has sets on shelves, the heck are they gonna do that's different from those?

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I was a bit uncertain myself about whether or not Space (in the poll) entailed only the grey/yellow windshield aesthetic, or if it included all the faction/subthemes. I ended up basing my final choice on the assumption that Space was being treated differently than Castle (no faction/subtheme). Either way it was tough to choose!

I agree with @Kingriedak that Bionicle (from the perspective of G2 being a subtheme in this poll) hasn't had proper sets in over a decade. Not only that, but the theme hasn't received any tangible nostalgic treatment from Lego since it was retired.

I'm all for Bionicle being incorporated into System (my Lego Ideas project conveys this!), but if Lego were to tackle this potential as a full theme at some point, I'd hope for an innovative reimagining.

Edited by B1z

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12 minutes ago, Lord-Vorahk said:

Space- it's had a lot of love lately

WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING THIS?

THE LAST MAJOR SET WAS SEVEN YEARS AGO

Okay, sorry for the outburst. But you people gotta stop gaslighting. Facts are facts. Please stop.

(Please interpret large fonts as indicative of frustration and temporary loss of sanity, not hostility. :tongue: )

 

Edited by danth

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35 minutes ago, danth said:

WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING THIS?

THE LAST MAJOR SET WAS SEVEN YEARS AGO

Okay, sorry for the outburst. But you people gotta stop gaslighting. Facts are facts. Please stop.

(Please interpret large fonts as indicative of frustration and temporary loss of sanity, not hostility. :tongue: )

 

But Star Wars and Nexo Knights were set in space and look at all those sets... :laugh:

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3 hours ago, Robert8 said:

Because the splitting the Castle theme in factions affected the first vote

Castle fans probably voted for 3 different castle subthemes in the poll. But if castle had been a single entry, they could have voted for castle and 2 other themes, including pirates and classic space

Actually the top 3 could have been castle, space and pirates. We don't know. They only way to know is starting all over again

All three of the themes you're describing got in anyway, so it honestly sounds like you're just whining that they have to share a poll with Bionicle...

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As others do, I wish that it were "space themes in general" in the final round. If it were guaranteed to be a neon early '90s space thing I might well have voted for that over castle. But... I dunno, castle just seems the most deserving.

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17 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

All three of the themes you're describing got in anyway, so it honestly sounds like you're just whining that they have to share a poll with Bionicle...

Think whatever you like

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1 hour ago, danth said:

WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING THIS?

THE LAST MAJOR SET WAS SEVEN YEARS AGO

Okay, sorry for the outburst. But you people gotta stop gaslighting. Facts are facts. Please stop.

(Please interpret large fonts as indicative of frustration and temporary loss of sanity, not hostility. :tongue: )

 

People consider Saturn V, International Space Station, Lunar Lander, etc as Space sets. Don’t think that’s too far fetched of an idea.

Edit: There’s even More! 60228 Deep Space Rocket and Launch Control. 60226 Mars Research Shuttle, etc. 

Saying Benny’s Spaceship is the last Space set to come out is more far fetched, imo, especially if people are going to claim that the Medieval Blacksmith is a “Castle” set.

Edited by Modal

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I think the problem was that nothing should've been split into subthemes from the get-go.

There were 30 themes, of which fourteen were original.  There were literally more subthemes than overarching themes!  I'm counting "Castle" as an overall thing, not breaking it up into what counts as classic castle and what's not, same with space, I'm not dividing it up into what's considered classic space and what is, I dunno, "early-modern space" or something (I kid :laugh:).  That's also counting Aquazone and Rock Raiders as their own things, the former I heard was supposed to take place in space, the latter I know was set in space, but with both I don't think they're really fair to count as space, since they were primarily just underwater/land vehicles, not spacecraft or bases.

What they should've just done is get rid of Divers/Xtreme Team/Arctic and throw that in with Town, get rid of Imperials and throw that in with Pirates, get rid of all of the Castle subthemes and just do a blanket "Castle" thing, get rid of the Space subthemes and do a blanket "Space" thing, and then add in one more theme if they want a round 15 (Galidor, perhaps :tongue:, or more realistically, they could've done Exo-Force, Vikings, Racers, Island Xtreme Stunts, or like Agents or something).  It wouldn't really matter anyway since realistically the only theme that wasn't on the list that I could've actually seen doing well was Western, which, I think the fact that a discussion lasted several pages proves why that maybe wouldn't be a great idea, even if you agree or disagree with the points being made on either side.

Now, looking at Brickset, I'm actually kind of surprised how few themes there actually are that aren't licensed.  If you don't break stuff into subthemes...there's a lot fewer themes than you may think.  Outside of the ones that were already on the poll, then those other couple that I mentioned, the only ones that really even existed were essentially re-hashes of old themes (Pharaoh's Quest, Aqua Raiders, etc) or wouldn't be viable (Dino Attack/Dino 2010).  So I almost wonder if they split some of these just to get more options on the poll and make it 30 themes rather than 10 or 15.  

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1 hour ago, Lord-Vorahk said:

 

As an aside, this is how I'd rank the current winner's circle:

1) Bionicle- Surprise, it's my favourite. Gimme a quasi-UCS Takanuva or something.

2) Castle- Has been dormant for the longest time of the others, and I'm big into medieval fantasy, even if there's not a Drow or a Tiefling in sight.

3) Space- Not really any strong feelings on this one, and it's had a lot of love lately, but apparently its big Lego Ideas shot didn't even reach review stage? I sympathise with Ideas disappointment (Even if the Sonic Mania set has my attention and probably my wallet), and I do like sci-fi. Especially pre "Human cops and evil aliens" Lego Sci-Fi. Screw the modern stuff tho.

4) Pirates- Come on guys it still has sets on shelves, the heck are they gonna do that's different from those?

Think we are pretty safe more Pirate sets are coming ether way.  Being ranked in the top three helps too.  Lets hope for some support ships for the Barracuda bay and a few Imperial to fight these guys back

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42 minutes ago, Modal said:

People consider Saturn V, International Space Station, Lunar Lander, etc as Space sets.

No they don't. Literally nobody does. Go look on Brickset or Bricklink. Those sets are not listed under Space. Space (big S) != space (little S).

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50 minutes ago, Modal said:

People consider Saturn V, International Space Station, Lunar Lander, etc as Space sets. Don’t think that’s too far fetched of an idea.

Edit: There’s even More! 60228 Deep Space Rocket and Launch Control. 60226 Mars Research Shuttle, etc. 

Saying Benny’s Spaceship is the last Space set to come out is more far fetched, imo, especially if people are going to claim that the Medieval Blacksmith is a “Castle” set.

I think it’s actually debatable as to whether the blacksmith is a castle set. It’s Medieval themed, like the market village, but it’s not quite castle the way a, you know, castle is.

On another note, even as someone who never really was a classic space fan, I gotta disagree with the ideas and city space sets as being in the same category as Benny’s spaceship.

Edited by Brickroll

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1 hour ago, danth said:

No they don't. Literally nobody does. Go look on Brickset or Bricklink. Those sets are not listed under Space. Space (big S) != space (little S).

I’m not talking about semantics of what a “theme” is. If you went to the average AFOL and asked them whether there have been space sets recently, they are going to say yes. That’s what people are talking about when they say Space has had a lot of love

Sure, if we want to say there hasn’t been love for a “Classic Space” themed set, then that’s fair as Benny’s Spaceship was 2014. Even then it still has had more love than anything Castle related. Pirates don’t even get me started lol

Edited by Modal

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This will be a big post, lol, but here is a breakdown for you all:

  • The reality is that Lego will look at the top themes and make sets based around those over the next decade or so because they have a known audience
  • By splitting castle in the first round it allowed them to find the most popular subtheme of Castle to know the best method of making castle sets in future
  • By adding castle to the final vote, it demonstrates that Lego acknowledges the popularity of Castle

In terms of the 90th Anniversary set, it is going to be Bionicle

Theory Time :P

By splitting Castle they performed analysis on the most popular Castle themes, and in the process meant that out of a 'top three' chances are you would likely vote for the long running themes. Other long lasting old themes similarly were either removed or not given a chance such as Fabuland, Dacta, Scala

Effectively the longest running themes became:

  • Bionicle
  • Town
  • Trains
  • Pirates
  • Space

Town & Trains are still continuing in the form of City and Creator Expert, along with varying elements in other versions. As such voting for them would never manage to surpass Pirates & Space which were always a surefire bet.

So Lego effectively had narrowed it down to a single theme, whichever theme was on the poll regardless of popularity that was not Pirates or Space (Which had pre-planned sets) would be released as the 90th anniversary set.

  • Pirates fans would be happy because of 2020 Ideas set and $100 set
  • Castle fans would be happy because of 2021 Ideas set and $100 set
  • Space fans would be happy because of 2022 Ideas set and $100 set

I would not be surprised if Lego continues this trend for the rest of the 2020's - each year including an Ideas Set and a $100 set based on a theme

I'm not saying the poll was rigged... but it was always going to be swayed by how much individual fans had been exposed to the varying themes and that naturally results in longer length themes being more likely to be voted for. Pirates, Castle and Space were never going to be the 90th anniversary set because they had planned revamped sets for 2020, 2021 and 2022 respectfully already. It would make no sense for Lego to adapt any of these for the 90th when they showed up barely a year or so prior and clearly are popular enough to get brought back without focus.

The 90th anniversary set could have gone to anyone, but statistically speaking it is more likely to go to a long running theme and if Bionicle had not been included, the third place for Lego's 90th anniversary would have been a train set. Would Lego want trains, a current active theme, to represent them for the 90th anniversary? To be associated with a form of model train building? Lego, the pinacle of creativity depicted for its 90th anniversary building model trains?

Nothing against Trains, but it simply was not going to happen because of marketing purposes at least not for the 90th anniversary. You'll definitely get more sets in future though, so be happy with that :)

Why Bionicle is the only option:
Throwing Bionicle into the mix was a brilliant choice by Lego because it is one of the first and most well known Lego IP - that is also prominant in the 2000's. Appealing to AFOL's with revamped sets from the pre-2000's is generally easy, but catching the attention of a younger audience is difficult and Lego knows this.

As such they are going to try once again to see if Bionicle can catch the modern audience, this time with more focus than before and likely in a different format than before. It's a single set allowing them to try something new with the concept (as its almost certainly not going to be constraction) so if it goes poorly they simply can dismiss it and never touch it again.

In the meantime the media can promote the set with the story of how Bionicle helped save Lego or how the theme itself was inspired by the co-creators battle with health (tumor at the base of his brain) and chose instead to use his passion to create and strive to inspire others - a great message for the times we have experienced recently.

If you are celebrating the 90th anniversary what better way to do so than with an example of your own creativity in a theme than encaptulated the very essence of what you are trying to accomplish with your brand?

Edited by Scarilian

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I actually think that all of the themes have similar representations, castle has the blacksmith (which is a castle set, it has knights and is set in the medieval set), pirates has POBB and the creator pirate ship, space has 31107 (currently avaialble) and 31115 (in March), both of which are space and far removed from City or SW. Bionicle hasn't had anything recently but only four years ago had dozens of sets.

I'm still angry about castle being added unfairly, but good luck to whichever fan base gets their choice made.

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3 hours ago, danth said:

No they don't. Literally nobody does. Go look on Brickset or Bricklink. Those sets are not listed under Space. Space (big S) != space (little S).

I think it's time we both exited this thread. Why you're having to repeat yourself over and over due to people making the same claims and ignoring the very same thing regarding bionicle is beyond me, people still not having a clue what 'Space' is compared to 'space', compared to 'classic space' despite having it explained over and over... 

I just can't do this anymore, am gonna start tearing my hair out any moment now :laugh:

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1 hour ago, Scarilian said:

Theory Time :P

Or maybe just a employee came up with the idea about a 90 year set. Some others think that it was a nice idea so they have a meeting or two discussing which themes to include and which to live out like western.
Then post it and expecting 5000 votes (remember that a lot of ideas sets use a year to get 10 000 votes). WOW what happen there, everybody went crazy and it got 77 000 votes and maybe the categories should have been different*huh*
If it what planned properly they could have gotten the same kind of data by have only main categories like Castle and when you vote on that you will get a second question on what kind of subtheme you would like to vote on :shrug_oh_well:

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